.::Captain Douglas Falcon::.

[Ocean]

why is shine upsmash easier on a ledge/platform?

 

[ciaza]

As they have no ground to tech on, and Usmash reaches quite low.

e.g: ballin's Fox on Falcon 7

You can see that the Usmash happens while falcon is going over the edge of the platform. Still very impressive though.

 

[ballin4life]

Utilt/weak upsmash>thunder aura works so often it's amazing, it's not a gimmick. I see so many people using utilt/weak upsmash>bair when they could easily hit a thunder aura. It's such a waste.

Shine>upsmash is easier once you realise it's 10x easier when done on a ledge/platform.

the knockback is pretty equivalent and bair is much less risky

 

[ciaza]

But why finish with Falcon's up B if you know you can hit the falcon punch?

It's not risky if you know you can hit it.

Thunder has distinctively more knockback as well. It will get the kill when bair won't.

 

[asianaussie]

because real men play it freestyle, duh

and that means preset combos are boring

Spoiler

preset combos are probably the best option in most cases

 

[The Star King]

As they have no ground to tech on, and Usmash reaches quite low.

e.g: ballin's Fox on Falcon 7

You can see that the Usmash happens while falcon is going over the edge of the platform. Still very impressive though.

It's easier if you run forward a bit after the shine. I actually didn't even know it was possible standing still until I saw that combo.

the knockback is pretty equivalent and bair is much less risky

Pretty sure Down-B has significantly more knockback.

@ciaza I tried it in training mode, and doesn't weak usmash -> down B only work at really high percents where Bair would kill anyways? I tested it on Falcon.

 

[ballin4life]

It's easier if you run forward a bit after the shine. I actually didn't even know it was possible standing still until I saw that combo.

If I'd known so many people knew about shine usmash I would have ended the combo with shine dsmash.

Pretty sure Down-B has significantly more knockback.

You sure? Evidence? I've always felt thunder is a bit underpowered.

Also what I said is still true. Bair has tons of knockback and is much less risky.

 

[The Star King]

If I'd known so many people knew about shine usmash I would have ended the combo with shine dsmash.

You should've, I didn't know about shine dsmash.

You sure? Evidence? I've always felt thunder is a bit underpowered.

I don't really have any evidence, it just seemed pretty obvious to me. However, after testing it in training mode a bit, Thunder does have a lot more knockback, but only at low percents. So for the purposes of this discussion, you were right.

On the other hand, Thunder can do a maximum of 28% compared to Bair's 16%, and still has more knockback than Bair, so you should go for it if you can guarantee it. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[ballin4life]

You should've, I didn't know about shine dsmash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oupv617uyQ

just to show it's possible. I literally did it by accident with my eyes closed so I had to go back and look at the recording to see it.

 

[Battlecow]

I do the Utilt- "thunder aura" (lolname) a lot when I play pika (which is rarely). I learned it from Prince's combo video.

 

[ciaza]

@ciaza I tried it in training mode, and doesn't weak usmash -> down B only work at really high percents where Bair would kill anyways? I tested it on Falcon.

Yeah, that's true.

My other points hold. Falcon uair up-B also has tonnes of knockback but if I know I can hit the Falcon Punch for the guaranteed kill there's no reason to not, despite it being "riskier".

I do the Utilt- "thunder aura" (lolname) a lot when I play pika (which is rarely). I learned it from Prince's combo video.

aa gave me the name, I couldn't think of a better term =P

 

[Battlecow]

Na, it's a good name, just funny. Sounds like something out of an RPG.

 

[ciaza]

Knowing him, it probably was.

Gets the meaning across anyway and distinctively separates it from other various forms of thunder.

But we should hardly defile the Doug board by talking about such things.

 

[Battlecow]

TRU DAT

So are there any times when a run-up Jump-Nair does the job better than a Pivot-DJ-tippered Uair out of Fthrow at high %'s?

 

[ciaza]

I can't remember who, but I think it was someone trustworthy once said that falcon's nair is the aerial that has the largest knockback, larger than bair and tippered uair.

However tippered Uair does have a horizontal trajectory so you should take that into account. I'd use tippered uair for example of characters with poor vertical recovery like DK, and nair everywhere else.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Tippered uair will always be more useful than just using nair in that situation.

 

[The Star King]

I can't remember who, but I think it was someone trustworthy once said that falcon's nair is the aerial that has the largest knockback, larger than bair and tippered uair.

I vaguely recall someone saying that, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong. I also vaguely recall that person acknowledging that he simply forgot about tipper Uair.

 

[asianaussie]

is tipper sideways u-air legitimately stronger than upwards tipper u-air, or does it just have a different trajectory?

 

[ballin4life]

Yeah, that's true.

My other points hold. Falcon uair up-B also has tonnes of knockback but if I know I can hit the Falcon Punch for the guaranteed kill there's no reason to not, despite it being "riskier".

Huh? How many situations are there where upB WILL kill that you can even land an uair -> falcon punch? If you're at low enough percents to get a falcon punch then upB probably won't kill.

 

[asianaussie]

probably something to do with using platforms on hyrule

which isn't that uncommon

 

[ciaza]

That example was obviously exaggerated. Even if the UpB doesn't kill them you could probably get an edgeguard. Same thing with Pikachu's bair.

Regardless my point still ****ing stands. There are situations where hitting a thunder aura will kill when bair won't, and it's not risky if you know you can hit it.

Spoiler

Get at my italics.

EDIT: I Changed it for a reason >_>

 

[StretchNutz]

get angry. you gotta get mean!

 

[Fish641]

Does anyone have advice for Falcon vs Kirby? He's hard to combo more than a few hits at a time, and it's pretty difficult to edge guard him. Also approach is difficult (for me at least), so I've just been trying to space with my speed and try to get close enough to get a throw in. I really could just use some videos, but I only found a few on youtube from looking through ballin's and Superboom's channels.

 

[ballin4life]

Does anyone have advice for Falcon vs Kirby? He's hard to combo more than a few hits at a time, and it's pretty difficult to edge guard him. Also approach is difficult (for me at least), so I've just been trying to space with my speed and try to get close enough to get a throw in. I really could just use some videos, but I only found a few on youtube from looking through ballin's and Superboom's channels.

Boom has some good videos ... I only have 1 falcon vs kirby video and I get owned (plus it's on Saffron which is just dumb).

Anyway use a lot of bairs for spacing. Kirby also isn't THAT hard to edgeguard with bair/reverse uair. Don't mess around beneath Kirby because drill -> utilt will own you.

I feel like you have to play it differently than most Falcon matchups since Kirby can own Falcon so hard with utilts. I feel like I'm playing a really fast version of Samus actually (spacing and playing defensively).

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

trying to learn better techskill with falcon and i'm not sure where to go from here, i mean i don't constantly use uair combos(more like 55% percent of the time ) but i feel there could more to learn.

i was thinking of how to use falcon's ftilt in some way, and i realize how slow that move is, but i'm just doing it for expertimental purposes.

same goes for any other moves anyone wants to add.

also, bye bye 666 posts, i knew you well.

 

[Fish641]

Boom has some good videos ... I only have 1 falcon vs kirby video and I get owned (plus it's on Saffron which is just dumb).

My findings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ2ggNEceSg&feature=channel_video_title (Uploaded by Superboom, pretty good)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO1mPwdla40&feature=channel_video_title (From you, but it was a pretty gay match. The only other of yours was a 200% damage match with items.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdgqVENb2eI (Didn't learn a whole lot, Isai beating up on b-rex)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTtb12TRq-I#t=1m53s (Looked through all of the character battles for this xD)

What I get from these videos that I should focus on smaller combos (like 3-4 hits) and beat kirby by winning lots of approaches, rather than getting a good utilt combo or spike out of a grab. Then when his damage is high, hit him with a strong attack like a reverse uair (or a tornado like in that last video). Is that more or less right?
Oh and are there other good channels I should comb through?

 

[ballin4life]

I think there are some videos of PD vs Matts!

 

[Battlecow]

Doug's Ftilt is good yo

*****es never 'spect it. Also combos real gud in the tent.

 

[StretchNutz]

battlecow I just decided I could **** your falcon with my link.

 

[TheFooL]

Stretchnutz has a particularly annoying kirby. I (playing Falcon) used to get swiftly ***** in the matchup, but lately, I've figured out some strategies that are quite helpful.

Do not approach from above while Kirby is on the ground. You will get uptilted, repeatedly.

Spacing is key, dont let kirby get above you while recovering.

Dash grab is your friend. Kirby's smash moves have high ending lag, and they can be avoided by just dashing away, then back again to grab > combos. This only works if you anticipate the smash, which can be done if you're spaced correctly.

Do not miss an edgeguard opportunity. This is especially important. Kirby is fairly heavy, and it takes a toll having to damage him to 150% before you can kill him, when you can edgeguard him at lower percents. So far, the best airial I've found to edgeguard kirby with is a delayed, reverse Uair (so that you hit kirby horizontally). The hitbox is ridiculous and it may even outspace kirby's fair.

However, what's even better is to edgeguard with mindgames. Say you hit kirby off the edge, but not very high up vertically. Jump off the edge like you're going to edgeguard him, and try to force kirby to go downward (a safe option for kirby, considering he has 5 jumps and a vertically oriented upB). Instead, recover, and get back on the stage, crouch near the edge, and get ready. When kirby is near the ledge, you make your move: down tilt. It's the gayest edgeguard of all time but it's extremely effective against kirby. You can kill kirby at lower percents using this, all it takes is careful timing.

But don't just down tilt at the edge against kirby, downtilt all day, erry day. Seriously. down tilt has incredible range, and the trajectory really helps with edgeguarding, and can combo into other moves, like falcon kick. You can also break some kirby combos and clank other moves with it. Dont ftilt or fsmash on the ground, it'll just go straight over kirby's head.

However, stretchnutz's kirby is the only skilled kirby I've really played, so either this advice is actually good, or will totally get you pwned. Hope it helps.

 

[Battlecow]

Stretchnutz has a particularly annoying kirby. I've played MATTS! I (playing Falcon) used to get swiftly ***** in the matchup, but lately, I've figured out some strategies that are quite helpful.

Do not approach from above while Kirby is on the ground. You will get uptilted, repeatedly. dur

Spacing is key dur, dont let kirby get above you while recovering. dur

Dash grab is your friend when is it not?. Kirby's smash moves have high ending lag, and they can be avoided by just dashing away, then back again to grab > combos. This only works if you anticipate the smash, which can be done if you're spaced correctly.

Do not miss an edgeguard opportunity. This is especially important. Kirby is fairly heavy, lulz no and it takes a toll having to damage him to 150% before you can kill him, when you can edgeguard him at lower percents this is true for any character. So far, the best airial I've found to edgeguard kirby with is a delayed, reverse Uair (so that you hit kirby horizontally). true, and people don't use it enough The hitbox is ridiculous and it may even outspace kirby's fair.

However, what's even better is to edgeguard with mindgames. Say you hit kirby off the edge, but not very high up vertically. Jump off the edge like you're going to edgeguard him, and try to force kirby to go downward (a safe option for kirby, considering he has 5 jumps and a vertically oriented upB). nope, good kirbies always recover high Instead, recover, and get back on the stage, crouch near the edge, and get ready. When kirby is near the ledge, you make your move: down tilt. It's the gayest edgeguard of all time but it's extremely effective against kirby. You can kill kirby at lower percents using this, all it takes is careful timing.

But don't just down tilt at the edge against kirby, downtilt all day, erry day. Seriously. down tilt has incredible range, and the trajectory really helps with edgeguarding, and can combo into other moves, like falcon kick. na, it's only good for edgeguarding. Ftilt is equally fast, and easier to hit with 'cus it's not so low You can also break some kirby combos and clank other moves with it. Dont ftilt or fsmash on the ground, it'll just go straight over kirby's head. good kirbies never approach from the ground

However, stretchnutz's kirby is the only skilled kirby I've really played, so either this advice is actually good, or will totally get you pwned. Hope it helps.

So yeah GOOD STUFF for some of it but srsly ftilt is good when used in moderation

Trust me I'm ONLINE GOOD not just ARIZONA PRO like STRETCHNUTZ whose link would get ***** 4 stock or better by my Doug REAL TALK.

 

[StretchNutz]

good kirbys recover high... except for when the situation requires them to recover low.

And I will destroy you with various characters.

 

[Battlecow]

So Dtilt is good for edgeguarding when you can force someone to recover low. Should I put out an announcement in the New York Times?

Yawn. Why don't you get online and back that up, Mr. Emu-lover? Oh wait, you're scared.

I repeat- Arizona Pro. Just below Danville Pro on my list of respected statuses. I could take you with half the cast using handicap 1 and a non-hori 3rd party controller.

 

[King Omega]

Doug's Ftilt is good yo

Doug's ftilt is to be used at the beginning of a Hyrule Falcon ditto so you can turn their aggressive grab rush into a humiliating combo all the way across the stage and to their death.

Ftilt --> grab forever

Wondering, are there any seriously good uses for jabs? I throw them out then go for a lucky regrab in the middle of dumb combos and they can trip people up at random times, but is there a better way to use them?

Dont ftilt or fsmash on the ground, it'll just go straight over kirby's head.

You know both of those moves can be angled down to hit even a crouching Kirby, right?

 

[Battlecow]

against people with only OK DI, jab against walls on Hyrule is good. You can rack up some respectable damage before they get out.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

Anyone have a list of the characters and percentages that falcon can do Fthrow into Falconpunch?

 

[B Link]

You should just try it on every char and feel when it works. I could list it for you but would your mind process go "ok, grabbed him. lets see...fox, check. __% check. FP is GO"? Sometimes you can even land it when its not supposed to work so I don't think it would be useful to know the exact info

 

[The Star King]

I could list it for you but would your mind process go "ok, grabbed him. lets see...fox, check. __% check. FP is GO"?

Yes, it would.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Knowing your percents is really useful.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

When im playing i normally always pay attention to percentages. When im playing with pikachu, knowing when i can chain u-tilts helps a alot. I just think if i see a player around X% (knowing a fthrow Fpunch combo is coming up) I could try to approach with a grab and follow up with a Fpunch and end them quickly as opposed to having to chain u-airs or knock them off and edgeguard repeatedly.

So far I know that Fthrow -> FalconPunch works on:
Fox @ 50-55%
Falcon @ ~45%
Link @ ~70%
Yoshi @ 42-48%