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Can't Let you cut me Sakurai, Wolf for DLC

Frostwraith

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It's just disappointing that for a series that has had one game in 25 years with no real information on anything more in future has more reps then one of Nintendo's more beloved series (DK *and* Star Fox) that's had a game on almost every console and handheld to date.
Kid Icarus was lucky to have 3 characters. It was meant to have just 2, just like DK and Star Fox.

It was also lucky to have easily ported data from KIU on the 3DS version.

The "extra/bonus" quote from Sakurai is nonsense. Firstly these characters started out as Skins so they weren't intended to be their own character however with the resources Sakurai had and the limited time prior to launch he needed to pad out the roster a bit since they didn't get to complete everyone they actually wanted to. This happens every Smash game. Real characters that werent ready or finished got pushed back to DLC while Dr Mario and friends got elevated up because it was quick and easy.
This is utter ignorance. Complete, utter, disgusting ignorance.

Development has a LIMITED TIME. There's a DEADLINE to meet. Sakurai has stated multiple times that characters are dropped mid-development because of said time limits. They can't afford to delay a game just for one character because "oh, there are whiny fans that will *****". Game development is expensive and uncertain. Sometimes, hard and unpleasant decisions have to be made. This is reality.

Have you ever sit in front of a computer programming software? Do you have any experience on that area? I have and I know what I'm talking about. I can look at the clone characters and say "this likely didn't take too much time to develop and mostly consisted on altering existing data". And I can say that a character like Olimar or Rosalina had more investment put into them.

It's much easier, much faster, more time-efficient and cost-efficient to simply alter alts to make them clones than it is to program a character whose moves are unique, as is the case of Wolf for the most part and overall 52 non-clone characters currently in the Smash 4 roster.

Sakurai has gone on record to say, if the 3 clones in Smash 4 had to take a lot of manpower, they wouldn't have been added in the first place. It was those 3 clones or 3 less characters in the roster. Take your pick.

And if you don't believe me, here are the words from the man himself in regards to the subject.

Sakurai said:
There are three clones on the roster. Initially they were created as alternates, but during development they started to develop their own individual traits related to balancing, so we ended up making them different characters in order to separate their records. However, it was of the utmost importance that the workload on the project was not increased. They wouldn’t make it in if balancing had to be done from the start, so they were balanced relative to their original.

Lucina is Marth but with different properties on her sword. Dark Pit is nearly identical to Pit, but his side-B and Final Smash are different, so they ended up becoming separate character records. If Doctor Mario was the exact same as Mario, it would probably upset fans of the old Doctor Mario, so we included customs that can be used to make him more like he was in the past, if you would like.
Sakurai said:
Normally, each fighter battles a variety of other characters, and we use these results as feedback for how to continue balancing a character. However, adding even one more extra fighter increases the number of battles that must be done against the entire cast, and it increases the amount of playtesting necessary by a lot. By balancing the clones to have almost the same strength as the original character, we’re reducing the workload necessary.
Source: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/i-answer-some-questions-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-461-464/

These characters are apparently important enough to have their own slots but not important enough for any effort to be put in for them to have any actual differences beyond minor and trivial ones is an insult to fans of these characters and everyone else.
It is not a matter of "importance" or "insulting fans" or whatever nonsense ignorant fanboys spout. It's about efficiency and viability in regards to what can be made in a tight development schedule.

I'm not in the mood to argue about this since it's beating a dead horse. Have a nice day.
 

swordofacorn

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These characters are apparently important enough to have their own slots but not important enough for any effort to be put in for them to have any actual differences beyond minor and trivial ones is an insult to fans of these characters and everyone else.
Wouldn't those characters being skins be more insulting to the fans; with the characters receiving no effort instead of a little bit?
 

Megadoomer

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Personally, I've got no problem with Lucina or Dr. Mario - I find the FLUDD virtually useless, so it's good to have Dr. Mario's moves as an alternative, and I find Lucina easier to use than Marth or Melee Roy since I don't need to be constantly concerned with minor differences in where the sword hits having a big impact on how the fight goes. Even if the differences between those two and the characters who they're based on are minor, they still make a significant difference in terms of gameplay.

Meanwhile, Dark Pit is basically a palette swap of Pit - his arrows are harder to control and his B-over has an electric effect, but other than that, there doesn't seem to be any noteworthy differences between the two unless you have Smash Balls turned on. The only significant difference (his arrows) seems to make him worse than Pit, and in all other aspects, the two are identical. Maybe I'm not noticing any other differences because I haven't looked too closely into the character, but unlike the other clones, there doesn't seem to be any reason to pick Dark Pit over Pit aside from his victory music.
 
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shane3x

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Kid Icarus was lucky to have 3 characters. It was meant to have just 2, just like DK and Star Fox.

It was also lucky to have easily ported data from KIU on the 3DS version.
Impossible that no Sakurai Bias was involved. DK and Star Fox are bigger, not forgetting Wolf was in Brawl so some assets and code potentially could have been used as a base.

Development has a LIMITED TIME. There's a DEADLINE to meet. Sakurai has stated multiple times that characters are dropped mid-development because of said time limits. They can't afford to delay a game just for one character because "oh, there are whiny fans that will *****". Game development is expensive and uncertain. Sometimes, hard and unpleasant decisions have to be made. This is reality.
Umm, that was my point. He wanted to have how ever many characters in the game, but was never going to meet the launch deadline so put aside development of characters who he hadn't worked on yet, threw together Doctor Mario and friends to plug in the gaps of his quota which lets him work on the actual characters he wanted to do and that fans wanted later as DLC.

Have you ever sit in front of a computer programming software? Do you have any experience on that area? I have and I know what I'm talking about. I can look at the clone characters and say "this likely didn't take too much time to develop and mostly consisted on altering existing data". And I can say that a character like Olimar or Rosalina had more investment put into them.
Oh wow, this tired old argument of "if you cant do X or aren't an expert in X you aren't allowed to say anything".

It's much easier, much faster, more time-efficient and cost-efficient to simply alter alts to make them clones than it is to program a character whose moves are unique, as is the case of Wolf for the most part and overall 52 non-clone characters currently in the Smash 4 roster.
Of course it is, which is why it as even you have stated characters get dropped at all points during development for various reasons and in which as Sakurai has said the clones got thrown together quickly later in development.

Sakurai has gone on record to say, if the 3 clones in Smash 4 had to take a lot of manpower, they wouldn't have been added in the first place. It was those 3 clones or 3 less characters in the roster. Take your pick.
And as the popularity of DLC has shown, people are happy to wait and pay for extra content due to the amount of value smash already provides. Of course Sakurai would never say anything bad about his own game no matter how true. Doctor Mario and friends arent dessert, they are the cheap tacky unedible stuff on top of a cake that if it wasnt there you wouldnt ask why the cheap tacky unedible stuff wasnt there.

You can call others ignorant, arrogrant, fanboys and whatever else you like doesn't make anything people say not valid points like you seem to think it does. I'll stick to the facts and discussion as opposed to attacking you then not being in the mood to see how petty that all is.

I like how you've ignored the fact that if the customisation was more robust and advanced that Doctor Mario and friends wouldn't be characters as initially intended.

The reduction of workload is nonsense, even with his arm still being dodgey he is still working on DLC for months after launch and will continue to do so for many months more it was just poor cover up on his part.

Wouldn't those characters being skins be more insulting to the fans; with the characters receiving no effort instead of a little bit?
If Sakurai intended for them to be skins in the beginning then clearly not. Plenty of characters have skins so why we have exceptions is probably due to the fact that customisation isnt as robust as it may be in future. If we had custom standard attacks and property customisation we wouldn't need true clones.

Personally, I've got no problem with Lucina or Dr. Mario - I find the FLUDD virtually useless, so it's good to have Dr. Mario's moves as an alternative, and I find Lucina easier to use than Marth or Melee Roy since I don't need to be constantly concerned with minor differences in where the sword hits having a big impact on how the fight goes. Even if the differences between those two and the characters who they're based on are minor, they still make a significant difference in terms of gameplay.
As mentioned before what stops a robust customisation system thats expanded upon the smash 4 version being able to implement all these different attacks and playstyles without limited the overall different playstyles and archtypes of the regular cast?

Roy is fine since he actually had work put into him so he is now a luigi as opposed to a dark pit or doctor mario. As long as enough effort goes in whether its making moves have vastly different properties such as ganon being a slow but powerful version of cap falcon which means their playstyles are different even though there moves are visually identical which is totally fine. Dark Pit and Doctor mario lack that contrast and arent luigis or wolf's at all.
 
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Troykv

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Impossible that no Sakurai Bias was involved. DK and Star Fox are bigger, not forgetting Wolf was in Brawl so some assets and code potentially could have been used as a base.



Umm, that was my point. He wanted to have how ever many characters in the game, but was never going to meet the launch deadline so put aside development of characters who he hadn't worked on yet, threw together Doctor Mario and friends to plug in the gaps of his quota which lets him work on the actual characters he wanted to do and that fans wanted later as DLC.



Oh wow, this tired old argument of "if you cant do X or aren't an expert in X you aren't allowed to say anything".



Of course it is, which is why it as even you have stated characters get dropped at all points during development for various reasons and in which as Sakurai has said the clones got thrown together quickly later in development.



And as the popularity of DLC has shown, people are happy to wait and pay for extra content due to the amount of value smash already provides. Of course Sakurai would never say anything bad about his own game no matter how true. Doctor Mario and friends arent dessert, they are the cheap tacky unedible stuff on top of a cake that if it wasnt there you wouldnt ask why the cheap tacky unedible stuff wasnt there.

You can call others ignorant, arrogrant, fanboys and whatever else you like doesn't make anything people say not valid points like you seem to think it does. I'll stick to the facts and discussion as opposed to attacking you then not being in the mood to see how petty that all is.

I like how you've ignored the fact that if the customisation was more robust and advanced that Doctor Mario and friends wouldn't be characters as initially intended.

The reduction of workload is nonsense, even with his arm still being dodgey he is still working on DLC for months after launch and will continue to do so for many months more it was just poor cover up on his part.



If Sakurai intended for them to be skins in the beginning then clearly not. Plenty of characters have skins so why we have exceptions is probably due to the fact that customisation isnt as robust as it may be in future. If we had custom standard attacks and property customisation we wouldn't need true clones.



As mentioned before what stops a robust customisation system thats expanded upon the smash 4 version being able to implement all these different attacks and playstyles without limited the overall different playstyles and archtypes of the regular cast?

Roy is fine since he actually had work put into him so he is now a luigi as opposed to a dark pit or doctor mario. As long as enough effort goes in whether its making moves have vastly different properties such as ganon being a slow but powerful version of cap falcon which means their playstyles are different even though there moves are visually identical which is totally fine. Dark Pit and Doctor mario lack that contrast and arent luigis or wolf's at all.
Actually... Dr. Mario feels different, is slower and in general stronger, with a poorer recovery in his Side B and Up B.
 

Frostwraith

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Impossible that no Sakurai Bias was involved. DK and Star Fox are bigger, not forgetting Wolf was in Brawl so some assets and code potentially could have been used as a base.
Ah, the irony of when Wolf was the last character revealed back in Brawl, people complained about how Sakurai was biased for the Star Fox series... Times do change, indeed.

(I agree that the DK series could have more content, though...)

Umm, that was my point. He wanted to have how ever many characters in the game, but was never going to meet the launch deadline so put aside development of characters who he hadn't worked on yet, threw together Doctor Mario and friends to plug in the gaps of his quota which lets him work on the actual characters he wanted to do and that fans wanted later as DLC.
Sakurai has no quota of characters. He simply adds as many as he can from the project plan, dropping characters mid-way.

He doesn't add clones to fill a quota. He added clones because it was viable to do so.

Oh wow, this tired old argument of "if you cant do X or aren't an expert in X you aren't allowed to say anything".
Have you ever sat down on a computer programming stuff all the way till 4 AM because you had a deadline to meet in a few days? I have.

Have you ever struggled to finish a project due to bugs you can't seem to fix? I have.

You ever had deal with the frustration to deliver a not completely finished project because you had to drop a few things to meet the deadline? I have.

If you have no experience in a professional area, you cannot possibly understand the meaning of working on such a profession and therefore cannot argue about the decisions professionals make.

This is the truth of things. You can only argue and discuss on things you have knowledge on. If you don't know, you cannot possibly understand.

And as the popularity of DLC has shown, people are happy to wait and pay for extra content due to the amount of value smash already provides. Of course Sakurai would never say anything bad about his own game no matter how true. Doctor Mario and friends arent dessert, they are the cheap tacky unedible stuff on top of a cake that if it wasnt there you wouldnt ask why the cheap tacky unedible stuff wasnt there.
If anything, the clones tell that Sakurai wanted a game as jam-packed with content as possible before releasing it.

Then, DLC development starts as what it should be: optional extra content users can buy in accordance to their desire.

And still, I don't see what's objectively bad about clones. This is a crossover game and a huge one at that. More characters is always good. The fact people don't like them doesn't mean they're an inherently bad thing. It only makes them bad for said people.

The clones' addition didn't break the game. They didn't disrupt the game's balance. The clones have no bugs or any cheap exploits. People can still have fun playing the game. The game's quality as far as gameplay and stability goes isn't affected in the slightest, therefore, the game hasn't become objectively worse. It only has a sect of people whining about them, but that is not my problem.

I like how you've ignored the fact that if the customisation was more robust and advanced that Doctor Mario and friends wouldn't be characters as initially intended.
Not necessarily. Depends on how customization would work.

Therefore, that isn't a fact, but your opinion. "More robust and advanced" is meaningless to me.

Of course, a customization system with more options would also require more workload on the game, which could have repercussions in other areas of the game...

The reduction of workload is nonsense, even with his arm still being dodgey he is still working on DLC for months after launch and will continue to do so for many months more it was just poor cover up on his part.
Actually, that's false.

DLC has a smaller team working on it, thus less workload. If you compare the development time-to-content ratio of the main game with that of DLC, you'll notice that DLC, for the time it's been worked on, has much less content compared to the main game.

And admit it, you're only butthurt about the clones because Wolf isn't in the game. Your signature makes it clearly obvious.

This coming from someone who wants Wolf back and threw a vote for him in the ballot, as I stated multiple times before in this very thread. He's pretty much the only character I want now that Lucas, Mewtwo and Roy are back. Any other characters are cherries on top of the cake.

tl;dr
- Clones aren't inherently bad. They didn't break the game, have no bugs, don't disrupt the game's stability.
- I want Wolf as much as everyone in this thread does, but I'm not whining or finding scapegoats. I'm fully prepared for the possibility of him not making the cut at all.
- I try to make an effort in doing research on how games are developed to better understand the game designers' decisions and the circumstances behind them before criticizing them.
 
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smashtriforce77

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Being a fan of Kid Icarus license, I would have found it shameful that Dark Pit uses the 3 sacred treasures in the final smash :(
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Dark Pit and Lucina are bad because every other clone character in Smash history at least felt different, DP having about 4 differences and Lucina being slightly shorter and doing more damage but no tipper isn't enough
I feel Lucina is different enough, although this is coming from someone who secondaries Lucina
 

ThePsychoWolf

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The clones are fine. Lucina is fine. Dark Pit is fine. Dr. Mario is fine. It's been nearly a year since this game released. People need to stop ******** about the clones already.
 

PurpleSoda

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The thread went into a spiral

I WILL GET THE THREAD BACK ON TRACK!!!!!!!

Changes:Reflector does more damage
Reflector can send projectiles back from 2x the speed to 2.5x the speed
Blaster Shot moves faster
Up-B goes farther
New Final Smash:Wolf calls in Leon and Panther and shoots the opponent multiple times
New Forward Smash:Looks Similar to Mewtwo's Forward Smash,but stronger
2 New Colors,includes an orange and purple one,and his blue one has been changed to make his jacket more blue and his fur darker.
 

Tino

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Without any major differences to playstyle or properties Dark Pit is unjustified (at starting out as a skin makes that even worse) but if he becomes the next Luigi or Wolf I guess its stomachable for the most part. At least Palutena has a unique moveset and playstyle to her.
Doesn't mean I like her, though.

And I don't have a problem with the clones at all. In fact, I was more hyped about Lucina's reveal for Smash way more than Robin, whom I wasn't expecting at all until he was revealed.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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The thread went into a spiral

I WILL GET THE THREAD BACK ON TRACK!!!!!!!

Changes:Reflector does more damage
Reflector can send projectiles back from 2x the speed to 2.5x the speed
Blaster Shot moves faster
Up-B goes farther
New Final Smash:Wolf calls in Leon and Panther and shoots the opponent multiple times
New Forward Smash:Looks Similar to Mewtwo's Forward Smash,but stronger
2 New Colors,includes an orange and purple one,and his blue one has been changed to make his jacket more blue and his fur darker.
Nair changed to be a multi-hit attack, somewhat like Lucas although with much less hitstun, either that or have it end faster by him doing less spins
New final Smash, Wolfen Assault. Behaves similar to Latias and Latios. Wolf first jumps up and into his Wolfen as it flies towards the screen, Him Panther and Leon fly around the stage ramming into opponents and shooting down towards the stage.
New up smash that doesn't defy gravity
New down throw, Wolf pounces on the opponent and delivers a few claw swipes before launching them upwards, combos into fair
More vicious forward throw animation
 
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MeleeMario64

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KI having one over Star Fox and DK is disgraceful in my opinion.
I wish I had some way to mod out Dark Pit(And other KI nonsense)without destroying my copy of the 3DS game.
This is why I want K. Rool and Wolf to set this right.
 

AlphaSSB

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The thread went into a spiral

I WILL GET THE THREAD BACK ON TRACK!!!!!!!

Changes:Reflector does more damage
Reflector can send projectiles back from 2x the speed to 2.5x the speed
Blaster Shot moves faster
Up-B goes farther
New Final Smash:Wolf calls in Leon and Panther and shoots the opponent multiple times
New Forward Smash:Looks Similar to Mewtwo's Forward Smash,but stronger
2 New Colors,includes an orange and purple one,and his blue one has been changed to make his jacket more blue and his fur darker.
  • Acting out of Side-B and a stronger spike at the end
  • D-Air has a stronger spike
  • More guaranteed combos
  • New Final Smash
  • A bit more speed would be nice. Running, moves, etc.
  • I want him to be taller. He is (appearentally) canonically 6'2", and I want that to be shown better in-game
  • Better survivability
But in the end, all I want is him back. I'm going to main him even if he is at the bottom of the tier list.
 

Tino

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KI having one over Star Fox and DK is disgraceful in my opinion.
I wish I had some way to mod out Dark Pit(And other KI nonsense)without destroying my copy of the 3DS game.
This is why I want K. Rool and Wolf to set this right.
I will say I am pretty annoyed by the huge amount of Kid Icarus content it has in Sm4sh. Hell, Smash Run has more enemies from the Kid Icarus series than even the Mario series, which is a surprise.

And as far as the amiibo thing, I can definitely see myself getting that Falco amiibo when he comes out. I wish there was a Wolf one, too. Of course, I am quite curious as to what this surprise Miyamoto has in store for us.
 

Wintropy

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The clones are fine. Lucina is fine. Dark Pit is fine. Dr. Mario is fine. It's been nearly a year since this game released. People need to stop ******** about the clones already.
The thread went into a spiral

I WILL GET THE THREAD BACK ON TRACK!!!!!!!
I, at least, respect what you two tried to do.
 

UberPyro64

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"He’s part of the “Super Smash Bros.” line but also a “Star Fox” character. You’ll get something — it’s a surprise" - Miyamoto when describing amiibos. It could be hinting at a future amiibo for Wolf.
I figured he was referring to what you would get using the Falco amibo.
 

themasterofcircuits

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There will be no Wolf Amiibo :(

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/...-explains-the-original-star-fox-sequels-fate/

Doesn´t look good for Wolf in Smash
If this article deconfirrned a Wolf amiibo that would be another story. Plus, even if Wolf is on the way, Miyamoto would be in huge trouble for confirming Wolf in that interview. There may be no plans now, but we don't know that there won't be one later. I feel like his chances are unchanged.

But it deconfirms that there won't be a Star Fox line of amiibo like Splatoon, YWW or Super Mario ;(
 
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PurpleSoda

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I will say I am pretty annoyed by the huge amount of Kid Icarus content it has in Sm4sh. Hell, Smash Run has more enemies from the Kid Icarus series than even the Mario series, which is a surprise.

And as far as the amiibo thing, I can definitely see myself getting that Falco amiibo when he comes out. I wish there was a Wolf one, too. Of course, I am quite curious as to what this surprise Miyamoto has in store for us.
The two things i'm hoping for is that Nintendo makes enough and is not exclusive to anywhere,if he is it better not be Best Buy(My local best buy is two states away)

There will be no Wolf Amiibo:(

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/...-explains-the-original-star-fox-sequels-fate/

Doesn't look good for Wolf in Smash
"There is one 'Star Fox' amiibo,it's a surprise"
'Star Fox'
"Surprise"
WOLF CONFIRMED!!!!!!!!!,ETIKA SEMPAI COME NOW!!!!!!!!!!
 
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shane3x

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Actually... Dr. Mario feels different, is slower and in general stronger, with a poorer recovery in his Side B and Up B.
Of course he has differences, when we say true clone we don't mean a literal identical carbon copy. No character is by that definition which thankfully isnt it. The point is those differences are minute and do not drastically change how Doc plays or provides a beneficial improvement to the playstyle. He is no luigi, roy or Wolf.

www.ssbwiki.com/User:Toomai/Cloneosity

Ah, the irony of when Wolf was the last character revealed back in Brawl, people complained about how Sakurai was biased for the Star Fox series... Times do change, indeed.

(I agree that the DK series could have more content, though...)
The community generally speaking isn't very bright. As I was saying Star Fox has had a game almost every gen and console so a unique new character that fufills a villian/rival role works for the overall series rep relatively to its popularity.

Sakurai has no quota of characters. He simply adds as many as he can from the project plan, dropping characters mid-way.

He doesn't add clones to fill a quota. He added clones because it was viable to do so.
He added clones because he wanted to have roughly X characters (No, he wasnt going to have a must have X characters clause by X date in his contract), wasn't going to have a lot of the characters ready or planned to just do some later due to lack of time (it seems very illogical that DLC beyond mewtwo was never planned all along, mewtwo was just a test for the infrastructure and distribution and if it didnt do well its claimed as a one off) however yes they are easy to throw in as filler because he is still working on

Have you ever sat down on a computer programming stuff all the way till 4 AM because you had a deadline to meet in a few days? I have.

Have you ever struggled to finish a project due to bugs you can't seem to fix? I have.

You ever had deal with the frustration to deliver a not completely finished project because you had to drop a few things to meet the deadline? I have.

If you have no experience in a professional area, you cannot possibly understand the meaning of working on such a profession and therefore cannot argue about the decisions professionals make.

This is the truth of things. You can only argue and discuss on things you have knowledge on. If you don't know, you cannot possibly understand.
Good old fallicious authority right there.

If anything, the clones tell that Sakurai wanted a game as jam-packed with content as possible before releasing it.

Then, DLC development starts as what it should be: optional extra content users can buy in accordance to their desire.

And still, I don't see what's objectively bad about clones. This is a crossover game and a huge one at that. More characters is always good. The fact people don't like them doesn't mean they're an inherently bad thing. It only makes them bad for said people.

The clones' addition didn't break the game. They didn't disrupt the game's balance. The clones have no bugs or any cheap exploits. People can still have fun playing the game. The game's quality as far as gameplay and stability goes isn't affected in the slightest, therefore, the game hasn't become objectively worse. It only has a sect of people whining about them, but that is not my problem.
Mewtwo was known about prior to release of the game, so they least had an idea behind the infrastructure and distribution and the plans for it before the game shipped even if none of those features were ready. Not liking a character due to the character is one thing, not liking them because they go against the very ideas of Sakurai is another. Chrom wasn't in the game because he would be too similar to Marth and Ike so he puts Robin in but then goes to put in Lucina? Who is literally a true clone? Yup.

They don't add much to the game either. Sakurai can tell people that they are dessert all he wants but if you enjoyed the main course and they throw in dessert after you say no.

Not necessarily. Depends on how customization would work.

Therefore, that isn't a fact, but your opinion. "More robust and advanced" is meaningless to me.

Of course, a customization system with more options would also require more workload on the game, which could have repercussions in other areas of the game...
We already have the ability to increase speed, defence and attack of a character. Custom standard attacks can be created in addition to custom special attacks. If and when Smash 5 happens they'd obviously be given the time and resources to expand further upon the systems already created

Actually, that's false.

DLC has a smaller team working on it, thus less workload. If you compare the development time-to-content ratio of the main game with that of DLC, you'll notice that DLC, for the time it's been worked on, has much less content compared to the main game.
Yet Sakurai is still involved with it all. He works crazy hard.

And admit it, you're only butthurt about the clones because Wolf isn't in the game. Your signature makes it clearly obvious.
And there is the attack folks, couldn't keep it to the points. Don't know how I can take what you say seriously now.

Doesn't mean I like her, though.
I don't either, although I can appreciate she is different unlike Dark Pit.
 

GalacticPetey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
468
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GalacticPetey
The point is those differences are minute and do not drastically change how Doc plays
Are we playing the same game? There's a reason Mario and Doc are typically on opposite ends of hypothetical tier lists.

Look no further than Melee for examples of how even seemingly minute differences radically change play styles. In Melee, Fox and Falco share all their moves but any Melee player will tell you they play nothing alike. Same goes for Marth and Roy.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
DROP.THE.ARGUMENT.NOW

........wait a second, Miyamoto's favorite Star Fox character is Slippy?
 

shane3x

Saint of Swords
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
656
Location
Australia
Are we playing the same game? There's a reason Mario and Doc are typically on opposite ends of hypothetical tier lists.

Look no further than Melee for examples of how even seemingly minute differences radically change play styles. In Melee, Fox and Falco share all their moves but any Melee player will tell you they play nothing alike. Same goes for Marth and Roy.
Doctor Mario and Mario is nothing like the contrast Fox and Falco, Mario and Luigi etc... have.

Doctor Mario isn't as good beause his mobility and recovery aren't as good as Mario's, obviously mobility and speed being generally favourable traits among the higher tiers along with other factors like combo ability.
 

Chico2099

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
132

shane3x

Saint of Swords
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
656
Location
Australia
He pretty much said nothing that hasn't already been said by someone else.
It was more to highlight the fact that so many people think K.Rool is when and guaranteed and while there is merit to his chances theres also quite a few things that could hold him back ultimately. That and also it's talked about in a formatted matter as opposed to how people normally discuss things (that is attack you rather then the points).
 

themasterofcircuits

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
222
Location
New Mexico
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professorfargo
So remember that friend I blackmailed into voting for Wolf? Well, he didn't take it too well... He sent me this:

nowolf.png


At least I got 6 or 8 votes for him :p
 
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