Can't Let you cut me Sakurai, Wolf for DLC

[Tino]

So remember that friend I blackmailed into voting for Wolf? Well, he didn't take it too well... He sent me this:

View attachment 61851

At least I got 6 or 8 votes for him

You're a one sick *******. You know that, right? lol

 

[Zerp]

As someone who cares a lot about representation and making sure veterans eventually can get back, I'd like to support Wolf. I don't really like Wolf much, but he is a completely justified inclusion and it would be quite rude to the Star Fox fanbase if didn't make it, especially since Wolf would have still been a justified and popular pick even if he wasn't in Brawl. The guy really deserves to make it, along with K. Rool, Isaac, and Bandana Dee he's one of those that are truly "deserving" of being in the game. It's kind of ridiculous he isn't already in, with Fire Emblem having 5 reps and all, you'd think Star Fox would at least have all of it's 3 reps return but nope, only 2 are actually in the game!

 

[themasterofcircuits]

You're a one sick *******. You know that, right? lol

So I've heard xD. Though he keeps calling Wolf a clone and unnecessary and it was my little way of punishing him .

 

[shane3x]

As someone who cares a lot about representation and making sure veterans eventually can get back, I'd like to support Wolf. I don't really like Wolf much, but he is a completely justified inclusion and it would be quite rude to the Star Fox fanbase if didn't make it, especially since Wolf would have still been a justified and popular pick even if he wasn't in Brawl. The guy really deserves to make it, along with K. Rool, Isaac, and Bandana Dee he's one of those that are truly "deserving" of being in the game. It's kind of ridiculous he isn't already in, with Fire Emblem having 5 reps and all, you'd think Star Fox would at least have all of it's 3 reps return but nope, only 2 are actually in the game!

While it would be nice if representation was relatively to the series popularity and impact as long as characters actually bring something new then its better then the alternative aka true clones. Out of the FE rep only Lucina is the odd one out and probably who people would have issue with since roy got the luigi treatment and isnt no doctor mario anymore. Deserve is a subjective thing anyway, Bandana Dee doesn't deserve over others all things considered thats just what the common "popular belief" is many of them disregarding basic smash criteria and some of the looming things potentially holding people like that back.

The DK series is bigger then kirby for example so why DK should have less reps then kirby for instance doesnt seem "deserving". You'd think at the minimum it'd be equal if not more.

 

[Deleted member]

As someone who cares a lot about representation and making sure veterans eventually can get back, I'd like to support Wolf. I don't really like Wolf much, but he is a completely justified inclusion and it would be quite rude to the Star Fox fanbase if didn't make it, especially since Wolf would have still been a justified and popular pick even if he wasn't in Brawl. The guy really deserves to make it, along with K. Rool, Isaac, and Bandana Dee he's one of those that are truly "deserving" of being in the game. It's kind of ridiculous he isn't already in, with Fire Emblem having 5 reps and all, you'd think Star Fox would at least have all of it's 3 reps return but nope, only 2 are actually in the game!

Well! Listen here, while I make it clear!
I can't believe you can't see what we see here!
A canine Wolf is the superior choices,
You're Zero Soul, initials Z.S!
Looking at your fangs,
you could smash it in all big bangs!
Because you're one of us! One of us!
You're mean and pink, puffy 'ciane.
Can't you see you're one of us?
You walk the line, my brother Bark.
Arm to arm,we will get Wolf Back!

IM SO SORRY

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Well! Listen here, while I make it clear!
I can't believe you can't see what we see here!
A canine Wolf is the superior choices,
You're Zero Soul, initials Z.S!
Looking at your fangs,
you could smash it in all big bangs!
Because you're one of us! One of us!
You're mean and pink, puffy 'ciane.
Can't you see you're one of us?
You walk the line, my brother Bark.
Arm to arm,we will get Wolf Back!

IM SO SORRY

Alrighty, then.

 

[Zerp]

While it would be nice if representation was relatively to the series popularity and impact as long as characters actually bring something new then its better then the alternative aka true clones. Out of the FE rep only Lucina is the odd one out and probably who people would have issue with since roy got the luigi treatment and isnt no doctor mario anymore. Deserve is a subjective thing anyway, Bandana Dee doesn't deserve over others all things considered thats just what the common "popular belief" is many of them disregarding basic smash criteria and some of the looming things potentially holding people like that back.

The DK series is bigger then kirby for example so why DK should have less reps then kirby for instance doesnt seem "deserving". You'd think at the minimum it'd be equal if not more.

I apologize for not making it clear that I also think Dixie is deserving (Holy crap how did I forget to list her), DK should have equal reps to Kirby imo, their the 4th and 5th/6th (if you count Wii) largest Nintendo series by sales respectively. Imo I believe we should have 3 Star Fox Reps, then 4 reps for both DK and Kirby from a purely representative view, sorry for not making that clear earlier.

Well! Listen here, while I make it clear!
I can't believe you can't see what we see here!
A canine Wolf is the superior choices,
You're Zero Soul, initials Z.S!
Looking at your fangs,
you could smash it in all big bangs!
Because you're one of us! One of us!
You're mean and pink, puffy 'ciane.
Can't you see you're one of us?
You walk the line, my brother Bark.
Arm to arm,we will get Wolf Back!

IM SO SORRY

This is beautiful, I love it.

Also, are we all in agreement Wolf has the best taunts in Brawl?

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Wolf needs to return just for the Miiverse Stage possibilities alone. Tons of: "Can't let you do that!", and "what the heck?", and "we're gonna have fun with this thang."
"What's the matter, scared?"
"Weaklings, the bunch of you."
"Playtime's over."
"I will be the one, to take you down."
It would be glorious.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

Well! Listen here, while I make it clear!
I can't believe you can't see what we see here!
A canine Wolf is the superior choices,
You're Zero Soul, initials Z.S!
Looking at your fangs,
you could smash it in all big bangs!
Because you're one of us! One of us!
You're mean and pink, puffy 'ciane.
Can't you see you're one of us?
You walk the line, my brother Bark.
Arm to arm,we will get Wolf Back!

Well, if what you say is true
With these fangs, and slick grey fur
There is no question that i'm family with you
Cause i'm one of you---... you know what, i'll stop.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, are we all in agreement Wolf has the best taunts in Brawl?

He has some of the best taunts in Brawl,but how can you compete with Captain Falcon's taunts?

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

I love Lucas' taunt where he just falls on his ass. And Zelda's where she just waves goodbye. Such disrespect. i love it.

 

[Zerp]

Made some Pro-Wolf propaganda for the heck of it, I apologize in advance for the lack of quality, I tried, but I just can't get it to look right with my lack of skills, sorry.

Spoiler: Rather Crappy Propaganda

 

[shane3x]

"You're good, I'm better."
"I can't looose".

 

[Troykv]

Sometimes I think:

"If Smash Bros actually resembles correctly the legacy, sales representation and general popularity, the only series that could deserves have two o more characters are the Top Five (Mario, Pokemon, Wii Things, Zelda, Donkey Kong and MAYBE Kirby), with Mario and Pokémon taking the half of the slots AL LEAST".

 

[Tino]

So I've heard xD. Though he keeps calling Wolf a clone and unnecessary and it was my little way of punishing him .

That's what being a man is all about.

 

[shane3x]

Sometimes I think:

"If Smash Bros actually resembles correctly the legacy, sales representation and general popularity, the only series that could deserves have two o more characters are the Top Five (Mario, Pokemon, Wii Things, Zelda, Donkey Kong and MAYBE Kirby), with Mario and Pokémon taking the half of the slots AL LEAST".

I like to think it's slightly more relative in terms of defining how much rep a series gets as opposed to hard static numbers such as the "Only top tier series gets 2+".

Mario and Pokemon having more then others (regardless of what the actual number is) just makes sense. Of course other factors are to be considered. In the instance of 5 FE reps. Roy being a fan favourite to return and Lucina being a "freebie" is really more like 3/4 FE reps. Although then again that series has been around longer than the Kirby series as an example and represents the more "hardcore" side to Nintendo.

tl;dr - Relativity + other factors

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

represents the more "hardcore" side to Nintendo.

You mean the Fire Emblem series itself and not how people who only know Fire Emblem by Smash Bros think of it.

To them, it's a bunch of Japanese mumbo jumbo. To fans, the game is HARDCORE THAT YOUR GRANDPA CAN'T HANDLE!!!!

Nintendo (or any game company) can't really decide what game is "hardcore", only the people who play the games can.

or maybe i'm speaking nonsence

 

[shane3x]

You mean the Fire Emblem series itself and not how people who only know Fire Emblem by Smash Bros think of it.

To them, it's a bunch of Japanese mumbo jumbo. To fans, the game is HARDCORE THAT YOUR GRANDPA CAN'T HANDLE!!!!

Nintendo (or any game company) can't really decide what game is "hardcore", only the people who play the games can.

or maybe i'm speaking nonsence

The series overall is niche and on the difficult side. Even to the more casual observer the more realistic tone of those characters compared to something like Kirby and the rest of the cast would give that impression of being something that isnt as easy to get into which can then infer hardcore/difficulty similar to Snake etc...

 

[swordofacorn]

Sorry to get back into the whole clone thing but about shane3x's complex customization idea, we are talking about smash 4 which has simple customization, thus if you want to create a character with even slight difference that's not a special move, you need to make a different slot for it (personally I don't have a problem with any of the clones). Assuming that they will make a more complex customization system in a future smash game (which I personally don't think will happen because smash bros is a game about simplicity), there's no reason to think that those characters won't be decloned or worst case scenario cut by then.

 

[Tino]

Also, are we all in agreement Wolf has the best taunts in Brawl?

One of the best taunts in Brawl, if not THE best.

 

[Wintropy]

Wolf's howl is my favourite taunt in Smash, full stop.

AAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU~!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The only taunt Wolf has I dislike is the weird growling, the wolf cry just feels perfect for victory, whereas 'what's the matter, scared?' is perfect if your foe SDs

 

[Dust^]

clearly wolfs best taunt is his upsmash. /s


i hope they change what he says when he does an upsmash.

 

[Mellos]

Ugh, I just HAVE to post this stupid idea here, which most likely will NEVER happen (in that certain way atleast)

We get DLC PACKS, 2 at once, both named:
>>Good Girl VS Bad Guy<<
Love intrest and Villain.


One containing >Krystal and Wolf< and the second >Dixie and King K Rool<
I think I would die from joy seeing Sakurai confirm this.

 

[shane3x]

Sorry to get back into the whole clone thing but about shane3x's complex customization idea, we are talking about smash 4 which has simple customization, thus if you want to create a character with even slight difference that's not a special move, you need to make a different slot for it (personally I don't have a problem with any of the clones). Assuming that they will make a more complex customization system in a future smash game (which I personally don't think will happen because smash bros is a game about simplicity), there's no reason to think that those characters won't be decloned or worst case scenario cut by then.

The combat itself is still simple, the customisation is more involved however it still leads to the same core simple gameplay so further expansion upon the customisation system isnt going to change things. Smash 4 broke a lot of conventions when it comes to the roster overall so I imagine if and when Smash 5 filler characters won't be needed, they aren't exactly in demand to begin with.

 

[Jestar]

Well! Listen here, while I make it clear!
I can't believe you can't see what we see here!
A canine Wolf is the superior choices,
You're Zero Soul, initials Z.S!
Looking at your fangs,
you could smash it in all big bangs!
Because you're one of us! One of us!
You're mean and pink, puffy 'ciane.
Can't you see you're one of us?
You walk the line, my brother Bark.
Arm to arm,we will get Wolf Back!

IM SO SORRY

I wonder how many people will get this.

I, for one, enjoyed it greatly.

 

[PurpleSoda]

Slippy conf OH GOOD GRENINJA'D.

Tee Hee

So remember that friend I blackmailed into voting for Wolf? Well, he didn't take it too well... He sent me this:

View attachment 61851

At least I got 6 or 8 votes for him

He getting tired of your crap

 

[MeleeMario64]

I will say I am pretty annoyed by the huge amount of Kid Icarus content it has in Sm4sh. Hell, Smash Run has more enemies from the Kid Icarus series than even the Mario series, which is a surprise.

Exactly.Like I said,modding without destroying is what I want to do,just to fix all of this.
Now then,Q:How many times have you seen the KI symbol in this game?

 

[Frostwraith]

Well, to be fair, the huge amount of KI enemies is because they were easily ported from KIU, which is also on the 3DS and likely running on a similar engine. Seriously, as someone's played KIU, the game feels a lot like Smash in many aspects.

While several other enemies are also ported from 3DS games, such as most Ocarina of Time enemies from the remake, they still were given new animations and were worked from scratch in regards to AI programming.

That isn't the case with the KIU enemies that have their models, animations and even some AI ported directly from KIU. They provided variety to the mode and was a time and cost efficient way to add more enemies to the game.

Sure, it skews on the balance between series, having more enemies than even the Mario series, but it adds to the gameplay, the most important thing above everything else. The development team had a huge amount of easily usable resources from a previous project at their disposal that also could serve a purpose on a new project. They didn't just let those assets go to waste, they put them to use in a way that benefited the game.

Likewise, a bunch of SSE enemies were also ported from Brawl (including some Mario enemies like Goombas), but those had to be downgraded to work better on the 3DS hardware.

Of course, the ideal would be if every series had the same amount of enemies as Kid Icarus does, but I don't think there's much room to complaints considering the above circumstances.

After all, this is the most varied and most crossover-like enemy roster we've ever had in Smash and a huge step above the enemy rosters from Melee (which only had a few enemies from Mario, Zelda and Ice Climber) and Brawl (which was entirely original stuff aside from a few Mario enemies).

We have enemies from Brawl's SSE, Mario, DK, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Pokémon, EarthBound, Ice Climber, Rhythm Heaven, Kid Icarus, Pikmin, Mii series and even third-party franchises Sonic, Mega Man and Namco arcade classics.

From a Q&A article with Sakurai himself:

Q: How did you decide the enemies for Smash Run?

I used the following criteria:

• can be used as a generic enemy
• not a heavy strain on the 3DS processing power
• has traits unique to that character
• overall balance based on size and strength (large, small, weak, strong)
• relatively low hours of manpower necessary
• characters from the available stable of franchises

can be used as a generic enemy: For example, it would be strange to use Dark Link or the Flying Man as mooks.

Based on these criteria, humanoid enemies would require a lot of work and aren’t well-suited for inclusion. But I tried to include some anyway.

The reason why there are many enemies from “Kid Icarus: Uprising” is because they were original models specially designed for the 3DS, had their own uniqueness, and were easy to make as a result of being used previously. Thus they fit many of the requirements and were a perfect fit. Without them, I wouldn’t be able to have that many enemies.

Source: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/i-answer-some-questions-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-461-464/

 

[MeleeMario64]

Well, to be fair, the huge amount of KI enemies is because they were easily ported from KIU, which is also on the 3DS and likely running on a similar engine. Seriously, as someone's played KIU, the game feels a lot like Smash in many aspects.

While several other enemies are also ported from 3DS games, such as most Ocarina of Time enemies from the remake, they still were given new animations and were worked from scratch in regards to AI programming.

That isn't the case with the KIU enemies that have their models, animations and even some AI ported directly from KIU. They provided variety to the mode and was a time and cost efficient way to add more enemies to the game.

Sure, it skews on the balance between series, having more enemies than even the Mario series, but it adds to the gameplay, the most important thing above everything else. The development team had a huge amount of easily usable resources from a previous project at their disposal that also could serve a purpose on a new project. They didn't just let those assets go to waste, they put them to use in a way that benefited the game.

Likewise, a bunch of SSE enemies were also ported from Brawl (including some Mario enemies like Goombas), but those had to be downgraded to work better on the 3DS hardware.

Of course, the ideal would be if every series had the same amount of enemies as Kid Icarus does, but I don't think there's much room to complaints considering the above circumstances.

After all, this is the most varied and most crossover-like enemy roster we've ever had in Smash and a huge step above the enemy rosters from Melee (which only had a few enemies from Mario, Zelda and Ice Climber) and Brawl (which was entirely original stuff aside from a few Mario enemies).

We have enemies from Brawl's SSE, Mario, DK, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Pokémon, EarthBound, Ice Climber, Rhythm Heaven, Kid Icarus, Pikmin, Mii series and even third-party franchises Sonic, Mega Man and Namco arcade classics.

From a Q&A article with Sakurai himself:

Source: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/i-answer-some-questions-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-461-464/

Easy to do?Sure,I'll take it.
But does that justify it all being his creations from this niche,3 game series?
No.

 

[Frostwraith]

Easy to do?Sure,I'll take it.
But does that justify it all being his creations from this niche,3 game series?
No.

It does justify from purely a gameplay and game development view point. KIU was Sakurai's previous project: he had all the assets from that game that could be easily reused for Smash 3DS and provided the development team at Bandai Namco with them. Just like how the Brawl team was provided with Melee's assets courtesy of HAL Laboratory.

They either ported KIU assets or had a lower amount of enemies. Take your pick.

I've seen people argue: why not put less KIU enemies? To which can be replied: why not cram the mode with as many enemies as possible, considering they fit the criteria and add to the gameplay?

Why not adding to the gameplay when they have easily usable assets to do so? The enemies, even if they all come from KIU, proved to be a valuable resource for the development team and managed to add more variety to the mooks in Smash Run.

If the gameplay is benefited from it, if it enriches a game mode, I can't see why was it a bad decision to have those enemies ported from their previous project. They had nothing to lose. Porting data from another program that has similar specifications is much faster than building assets from the ground up.

Most of the enemies were built from scratch. They just used KIU assets as a way to boost the number of enemies significantly at a lower cost (in budget and manpower) than the other enemies.

 

[Tino]

Exactly.Like I said,modding without destroying is what I want to do,just to fix all of this.
Now then,Q:How many times have you seen the KI symbol in this game?

A. A lot. Not sure how much exactly.

 

[MeleeMario64]

A. A lot. Not sure how much exactly.

And how much have you seen Star Fox and DK's symbols?

 

[Tino]

And how much have you seen Star Fox and DK's symbols?

A. Only a few, which is really depressing especially Star Fox.

EDIT: Did I mentioned how much I hate seeing a wall of text in here? What's with the long ass responses?

 

[Deleted member]

Can we please stop all this clone/bias/smash run debate and go to speculate about WOLF again?.
It's getting tiresome.

 

[MeleeMario64]

It does justify from purely a gameplay and game development view point. KIU was Sakurai's previous project: he had all the assets from that game that could be easily reused for Smash 3DS and provided the development team at Bandai Namco with them. Just like how the Brawl team was provided with Melee's assets courtesy of HAL Laboratory.

They either ported KIU assets or had a lower amount of enemies. Take your pick.

I've seen people argue: why not put less KIU enemies? To which can be replied: why not cram the mode with as many enemies as possible, considering they fit the criteria and add to the gameplay?

Why not adding to the gameplay when they have easily usable assets to do so? The enemies, even if they all come from KIU, proved to be a valuable resource for the development team and managed to add more variety to the mooks in Smash Run.

If the gameplay is benefited from it, if it enriches a game mode, I can't see why was it a bad decision to have those enemies ported from their previous project. They had nothing to lose. Porting data from another program that has similar specifications is much faster than building assets from the ground up.

Most of the enemies were built from scratch. They just used KIU assets as a way to boost the number of enemies significantly at a lower cost (in budget and manpower) than the other enemies.

Lower amount of enemies anyday.
All the KI enemies cause me nothing but grief and pain when I play Smash Run,except for Monoeyes.
I didn't even know half of the enemies' names before Smash Run,let alone even EXISTED.
And all the KI enemies are(to me at least)broken beyond belief.
WARNING:WALL OF TEXT AHEAD.IF YOU DESPISE WALL OF TEXTS THEN PROCEED WITH CAUTION

Spoiler

There's nothing much wrong with Bumpety Bomb,Souflee,Flage,and Monoeye.
Boom Stomper:This thing is just way too huge to be any enemy in my opinion,plus it deals ridiculous knockback.
Clubberskull:What can I say about this thing that hasn't been already?Too much health,knockback,atacks are too strong,etc.
Daphne:Daphne's bombs deal stupid damage and KB that shouldn't be here,even in a non-serious mode like Smash Run.
Lethinium:Same problem I have with Egg Robo and Cryogonal,it's laser reaches WAY too far,and there is no escaping murder shaped like a laser.
Lurchthorn:THIS THING REALLY TICKS ME OFF.Impossible to kill,just gets worse when segments are destroyed,and causes the stupidest infinites I've ever seen in my life,even from AI controlled enemies.
Mahva:Here;s another one I despise.It pops up in the worst of occasions,especially when there's treasure in the area.
Megonta:Only d-tilts can really kill it,and when it attacks,it deals(you guessed it)too much damage.
Nutski:This one is just annoying.It won't stop moving,and,like Lurchthorn,causes dumb infinites.
Skuttler:This thing likes to knock you out of every attack you try,and his aerial moves are murder for no reason.
Skuttler Cannoneer:Laser and bombs that deal too much damage and knockback?Check.
Skuttler Mage:An annoying stat-dropper,like Koffing and Magikoopa.His attack when you get too close is the worst,as there's no escape until it's over.
Zuree:Too strong+too much KB,next.
Mimicutie:I just want this thing to go die in a hole.It's attacks are way too spammy,and they're death incarnate.That's why I avoid brightly colored chests at all costs.
Orne:Death+music change.
Reaper:God help us all,I hate this thing.His attacks will kill you,and the reapettes just knock you out of any perfectly planned attack.The worst part,however,is he changes your music.Orne,understandable,death is coming.But was the Reaper changing music really necessary?I think not.
He makes me escpecially angry because I Smash Run to one song only:You Will Know Our Names.When Reaper takes that away from me,I turn the system's volume off until he's dead,or I leave(because I hate putting up with him.)
Okay,rant over.

What a wall of text.
This might be because I'm not a KI fan,but whatever.
The fact that DK has just Kritter and a the flying tiki is really baffling.

Can we please stop all this clone/bias/smash run debate and go to speculate about WOLF again?.
It's getting tiresome.

Just wanted to put this out there.Back to space with us.
Besides,if the off-topic topic isn't full of salt,they can sometimes be fun...right?

 

[Tino]

Where's Wolf when you need him?

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Where's Wolf when you need him?

Waiting to be revealed sometime soon probably

 

[Tino]

Waiting to be revealed sometime soon probably

The wait must be killin' him.

 

[CannonStreak]

The wait must be killin' him.

It's killing me too, but I am sure you all knew that. But I can still hold on, at least.