Can we grow up about "grills"

[Lichi]

If you had read my post, you'd know. Yes, sexism is unfair behaviour to one's disadvantage due to their gender.

So yes, I deny your definition that includes beneficial behaviour.

Your post, once again, was a waste of time. I will cease to address you.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If you had read my post, you'd know. Yes, sexism is unfair behaviour to one's disadvantage due to their gender.

Is not beneficial behavior towards women sexism against men?

Edit: And by that I mean "discrimination against men", for discrimination is one of the basic definitions of sexism.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you had read my post, you'd know. Yes, sexism is unfair behaviour to one's disadvantage due to their gender.

So yes, I deny your definition that includes beneficial behaviour.

Your post, once again, was a waste of time. I will cease to address you.

Discrimination can take the form of giving one group an advantage not afforded by the other. Whether something is beneficial to a certain group or harmful to another is just a matter of perspective anyways.

See also: Affirmative action.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Discrimination can take the form of giving one group an advantage not afforded by the other. Whether something is beneficial to a certain group or harmful to another is just a matter of perspective anyways.

See also: Affirmative action.

Precisely, which was my point, however it seems lich does not have all that much patience and has gone off in a huff before I could finish my illustration of this via Socratic method.

 

[Lichi]

Discrimination can take the form of giving one group an advantage not afforded by the other. Whether something is beneficial to a certain group or harmful to another is just a matter of perspective anyways.

See also: Affirmative action.

Agreed. But what I said is advantageous to women. It cant be disadvantageous to them in the same instance.

 

[Sucumbio]

>.>

So can we grow up about grills already?

On point: i see this is devolving into an argument over the argument and not the issue. The issue's two fold...

1.) women should not expect to be treated respectfully or fairly in gaming communities because they're a minority.

2.) men sticking up for these women are just white knighting.

And no one sees a problem with this? It's cool by me, but I'm just sayin' it's kinda lame that gaming females are subjected to something simply because gaming males can't control themselves.

Fortunately we have enough female SB members and staff members so as to alleviate some of these issues here at SB. Go us. But as such, I think the OP has pointed to something, albeit not in the best possible way, that should be considered important and worthy of discussion.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Agreed. But what I said is advantageous to women. It cant be disadvantageous to them in the same instance.

Which answers the objection how?

The assertion was that you admitted to the definition of sexism, not sexism against women, hence why iceweasel supported my point.



That said, it's not uncommon for things to be short term or immediate advantages but confer hidden disadvantages, though that's not relevant to the topic right now.

 

[Plunder]

I'll refer back to my original post and it's conclusion.

You can't control the masses, you especially can't control the teenage (and younger) masses. This thread will change nothing since you're basically just preaching to the choir.

Every kid has a varying degree of class and maturity, when I was 13 I respected women and knew that bragging about making out or doing other stuff would spread and have a negative impact on the party involved. However I found out that was a rare quality since most kids that age don't give a crap and will brag, embellish, lie, take a pic or video and spread it like wildfire. There usually is no foresight or consideration concerning young people, and they are primarily the problem with a topic like this. Them and "man children" who don't get any attention from women ever and basically have the emotional and mental maturity of a 12 year old. Some guy that has a smoking hot girlfriend and is used to getting women easily won't even care about the random mediocre or "hot" chicks that show up to smash tourneys and hang outs. Those kind of guys are the minority though just like women are the minority in Smash. The majority is comprised guys that don't get a lot of female attention (this is a stereotype and a generalization, but a true one). So what do you expect? Of course they are going to be awkward, intrusive, nosy, desperate, unintentionally mean, condescending, etc.....Why? Well it's quite simple: They have no idea how to talk to women in any setting, it's not exclusive to smash events/tourneys. They have practically no practice or experience anywhere with he opposite sex.

So, It doesn't matter if everyone at a certain point agrees to be nice and treat them as nothing special and equals. New people will always join the community and reset the situation as long as females are a rarity in this community.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I think you guys might be delving way too deep into such a straightforward topic.

African-Americans will forever be treated differently as long as they are such a rarity in this community. Wish it wasn't that way, but that's how it is. The same applies to any social structure where there is a minority or a rarity in a certain demographic. Doesn't matter if everyone agrees to be absolute gentlemen to those 2-3 African-Americans....there's gonna be that new group of dudes always at every tournament that didn't get the memo.

In Munich, we have something like 6 girls in the Smash community, and one black man. Somehow, this argument doesn't apply there...

 

[Plunder]

In Munich, we have something like 6 girls in the Smash community, and one black man. Somehow, this argument doesn't apply there...

Do not alter half of what I typed and then quote it as if that is what I originally wrote. That's libel and it exposes just how immature and ignorant you are.

Also it's pretty illogical to compare males to males to females in the gaming community. Color has never been an issue or a point of discrimination in our community, gender has.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Do not alter half of what I typed and then quote it as if that is what I originally wrote. That's libel and it exposes just how immature and ignorant you are.

Also it's pretty illogical to compare males to males to females in the gaming community. Color has never been an issue or a point of discrimination in our community, gender has.

But in human history racial discrimination has been just as strong a point of discrimination if not stronger.

 

[Plunder]

But in human history racial discrimination has been just as strong a point of discrimination if not stronger.

Do I really have to lay out the extreme differences between the videogaming community and mainstream historical society?

Race, color, handicap, dwarfism, athleticism, attractiveness, social standing, wealth....pretty much all of that has been historically handled differently by our community than traditional society. If you look at the smash community's history even sexual orientation is treated way different from how other meat head gamers from Halo and COD still treat it (so it even varies widly from game to game). The only real global problem with discrimination we have are females and when it comes to opinions the other issue we have is in-fighting over what company you are a fanboy of.

So if you want to compare apples to oranges be my guest.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Do I really have to lay out the extreme differences between the videogaming community and mainstream historical society?

Race, color, handicap, dwarfism, athleticism, attractiveness, social standing, wealth....pretty much all of that has been historically handled differently by our community than traditional society. If you look at the smash community's history even sexual orientation is treated way different from how other meat head gamers from Halo and COD still treat it (so it even varies widly from game to game). The only real global problem with discrimination we have are females and when it comes to opinions the other issue we have is in-fighting over what company you are a fanboy of.

So if you want to compare apples to oranges be my guest.

Because different social groups don't have different biases that they emphasize all the time?

The fact that the smash community has a different set of biases doesn't somehow make them incomparable.

 

[Plunder]

Because different social groups don't have different biases that they emphasize all the time?

The fact that the smash community has a different set of biases doesn't somehow make them incomparable.

adumbrodeus you win; I concede. You are right black people are indeed harshly discriminated against in the Smash community and gaming.

I'm not a fan of arguing for the sake of arguing it begins to look like one big never ending troll attempt, and it's a massive waste of time..

 

[adumbrodeus]

adumbrodeus you win; I concede. You are right black people are indeed harshly discriminated against in the Smash community and gaming.

I'm not a fan of arguing for the sake of arguing it begins to look like one big never ending troll attempt, and it's a massive waste of time..

Oh good lord, that wasn't even remotely what I was arguing. Is this really what quality of discussion has become here? Is there no recognition of nuance?

 

[Sucumbio]

adumbrodeus you win; I concede. You are right black people are indeed harshly discriminated against in the Smash community and gaming.

I'm not a fan of arguing for the sake of arguing it begins to look like one big never ending troll attempt, and it's a massive waste of time..

You completely missed the point BPC illustrated. He wasn't actually saying blacks are discriminated against. That's obvious. He was saying that discrimination isn't exclusively limited to realms of serious life. Even gaming in other words, experience discrimination. Furthermore he pointed out the flaw in logic by simply exchanging "female" for "black". This wasn't meant to make you look disingenuous, but instead to show that your attitude lacks the big picture perspective which we're addressing. Racism and sexism are both real issues and denying that sexism exists in FGCs is no different logically than denying racism exists.

 

[Plunder]

You completely missed the point BPC illustrated. He wasn't actually saying blacks are discriminated against. That's obvious. He was saying that discrimination isn't exclusively limited to realms of serious life. Even gaming in other words, experience discrimination. Furthermore he pointed out the flaw in logic by simply exchanging "female" for "black". This wasn't meant to make you look disingenuous, but instead to show that your attitude lacks the big picture perspective which we're addressing. Racism and sexism are both real issues and denying that sexism exists in FGCs is no different logically than denying racism exists.

I suggest going back and reading every post I've made. It appears you've lost sight of what I said and what has been said (that tends to happen when people literally change words in what they quote from someone). I never denied sexism exists in video gaming in fact I've said the opposite in every single post I've made (including the one right before you replied).

Gender is so radically different than race when it come to discrimination and it has much different causation in our community. Trying to compare them? They are not on the same level, not even close to a fraction of a percent in modern times.

All I've been saying in this thread is that you are all preaching to the choir. All of us know it's an issue, none of us here mistreat women, we are all about having equality in our community. But none of this back and forth and arguing will change anything for the reasons I've stated like 3 times now. If you want to make a difference you're going to have to be proactive and do something about it in real life, either that or take a backseat and wait for the rest of society to catch up like with how racism has from the 1900s to now. Racism was pretty much not even an issue anymore by the time the gaming culture began when compared to how it was in the 50s and before, it's a very strange comparison to try and force. You want to argue that racism and sexism are on the same level right now in video-gaming? Feel free to do so, feel free to like each other insane contrarian comments, but sorry I'm not going to waste any more time on them.

 

[Sucumbio]

What is the basis of your conclusion, though? How is discrimination based in race, color, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc. somehow different between each one? Forget that we're talking about the smash community, obviously. How is it that in general treating someone different because they're a female any more fair than because they're black? That was his point.

And of course you're going to find most or all posters in here agree the issue exists. This isn't meant to be a grassroots operation. It's meant to hopefully intellectualize the issue by tying it in to movements of the past. If you say the only solution is to get more females to play, but females don't want to play because of how they're treated, does not the cyclic reasoning of this stick out like a sore thumb? Of course it does. The real solution is to police events so that women aren't treated differently. After enough time females will feel more at ease, and then, and only then, will you see their numbers increase. It has to start with regulation of the current fanbase though. It won't somehow magically become 50/50 men women, no matter how much time you sit back and wait.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You want to argue that racism and sexism are on the same level right now in video-gaming?

Except NOBODY argued that. BPC's argument was that your defeatist attitude was comparable to how many have seen race in the past, in other social groups. That was the point of the substitution, not implying that the smash community had a massive race problem.

It's not even that I necessarily disagree with you in the short term, this individual dialogue will not change anything but changing things isn't the point. Debate hall isn't to change the world it's to engage in discussions for our own amusement in the same way dgames is about mafia for our own amusement (and occasionally adventure games). Making change isn't the point!

That said discussions like this in the long term is how things change.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Do not alter half of what I typed and then quote it as if that is what I originally wrote. That's libel and it exposes just how immature and ignorant you are.

Also it's pretty illogical to compare males to males to females in the gaming community. Color has never been an issue or a point of discrimination in our community, gender has.

They're different. They're "weird". They're a rarity. Look, the argument "this is just how it is because women are a minority" is nonsense. The fact that they're a minority has nothing to do with it. The problem is not that they're a minority, it's that people want to sleep with them. And you know what? That's something we can work on. Treating your fellow gamers as, yanno, gamers, rather than sex objects? That shouldn't be so hard!

In Munich, we do not and we never did have this kind of problem. If we started to, I'd take steps to curb it, including straight-up telling people "you can't come to my tournaments". Because this kind of thing is not okay. It just isn't. And passing it off as just a fact of life is not helpful. It diminishes the scale of the problem and ignores what we can do to address the issue. Your attitude is defeatist and unhelpful. "Women are the minority, that's how it's always been, that's how it'll stay"? Well no kidding, if they feel so unwelcome in this boy's club. That's a problem. One we need to work on fixing.

 

[Plunder]

They're different. They're "weird". They're a rarity. Look, the argument "this is just how it is because women are a minority" is nonsense. The fact that they're a minority has nothing to do with it. The problem is not that they're a minority, it's that people want to sleep with them. And you know what? That's something we can work on. Treating your fellow gamers as, yanno, gamers, rather than sex objects? That shouldn't be so hard!

In Munich, we do not and we never did have this kind of problem. If we started to, I'd take steps to curb it, including straight-up telling people "you can't come to my tournaments". Because this kind of thing is not okay. It just isn't. And passing it off as just a fact of life is not helpful. It diminishes the scale of the problem and ignores what we can do to address the issue. Your attitude is defeatist and unhelpful. "Women are the minority, that's how it's always been, that's how it'll stay"? Well no kidding, if they feel so unwelcome in this boy's club. That's a problem. One we need to work on fixing.

I'll repeat it for the 4th time. Read what I actually wrote. You basically just agreed with me.

I'll refer back to my original post and it's conclusion.

You can't control the masses, you especially can't control the teenage (and younger) masses. This thread will change nothing since you're basically just preaching to the choir.

Every kid has a varying degree of class and maturity, when I was 13 I respected women and knew that bragging about making out or doing other stuff would spread and have a negative impact on the party involved. However I found out that was a rare quality since most kids that age don't give a crap and will brag, embellish, lie, take a pic or video and spread it like wildfire. There usually is no foresight or consideration concerning young people, and they are primarily the problem with a topic like this. Them and "man children" who don't get any attention from women ever and basically have the emotional and mental maturity of a 12 year old. Some guy that has a smoking hot girlfriend and is used to getting women easily won't even care about the random mediocre or "hot" chicks that show up to smash tourneys and hang outs. Those kind of guys are the minority though just like women are the minority in Smash. The majority is comprised guys that don't get a lot of female attention (this is a stereotype and a generalization, but a true one). So what do you expect? Of course they are going to be awkward, intrusive, nosy, desperate, unintentionally mean, condescending, etc.....Why? Well it's quite simple: They have no idea how to talk to women in any setting, it's not exclusive to smash events/tourneys. They have practically no practice or experience anywhere with he opposite sex.

So, It doesn't matter if everyone at a certain point agrees to be nice and treat them as nothing special and equals. New people will always join the community and reset the situation as long as females are a rarity in this community.

All I've been saying in this thread is that you are all preaching to the choir. All of us know it's an issue, none of us here mistreat women, we are all about having equality in our community. But none of this back and forth and arguing will change anything for the reasons I've stated like 3 times now. If you want to make a difference you're going to have to be proactive and do something about it in real life, either that or take a backseat and wait for the rest of society to catch up like with how racism has from the 1900s to now.

 

[Iceweasel]

The problem... is that people want to sleep with [women].

It's moments like this that make me glad I haven't unwatched this thread. topkek.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'll repeat it for the 4th time. Read what I actually wrote. You basically just agreed with me.

For the love of God could you stop trying to find keywords that you can frame as being covered by the person you disagree with and actually engage in honest discussion.

You have a clear difference of ideas, BPC has pushed further and stated that it IS possible to create change in the community through the TO system and before that he stated that the attitude you took was comparable to prior attitudes on race.

If you refuse to even engage other people in intellectually honest discussion, ask yourself, why are you here?

Edit: I understand there is a possibility you're merely misreading people because you're skimming for key phrases, but the fact is in all cases you simply haven't recognized the actual ideas put forth by people. So if you misunderstood I think you need to read in depth to more properly understand the ideas put forth.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'll repeat it for the 4th time. Read what I actually wrote. You basically just agreed with me.

Maybe this thread is pointless. You know what isn't pointless? Trying to do something about it. Your attitude seems phenomenally defeatist, and that bothers me. Because we don't need to be defeatist. We can do stuff about this. You don't even have to be a TO - if you see someone acting like a **** towards women, do something about it. Stand up and say, "hey guys, what you're doing is stupid, sexist, and makes this community a less welcoming place. Cut that **** out". If they don't cut that **** out? Take it up with the TO.

 

[Chainz]

Exactly how bad is the discrimination towards women in the community? In the tournaments that I've been to. The few women players who were there, were never discriminated against. Hell, this one girl I talk over in SoCal is the only person I know that was discriminated against. She don't take it to heart tho. In Fact from what she told me. Anyone who has ever talked **** to her, has never been able beaten her in tournament play or friendlies, haha.

 

[Plunder]

Exactly how bad is the discrimination towards women in the community? In the tournaments that I've been to. The few women players who were there, were never discriminated against. Hell, this one girl I talk over in SoCal is the only person I know that was discriminated against. She don't take it to heart tho. In Fact from what she told me. Anyone who has ever talked **** to her, has never been able beaten her in tournament play or friendlies, haha.

On a local and larger regional level it's pretty much never even an issue. But as with EVERYTHING in society the larger and more populated something gets the more out of control and anonymous things get. So at really big tournaments all people see is the stream chat and like 0.000002% of the people at the actual venue treating women differently. So you get threads like this, and over reacting. Like Budget player for instance he seems to be blissfully unaware of how small and different those tournaments he's talking about are, again he's comparing apples to oranges. In a whole different country with an overall more mature younger population as a result of a much lower age of consent (14 I believe) and expected maturity, a much MUCH smaller smash scene, and still being affected by a past with nazism (censorship in gaming and media).

Gender inequality in the gaming community is still a problem of course, I agree there should be no discrimination online or in person anywhere. I just think people are over stating it and also expecting it to change over night cause they made a smashboards post about it.

 

[Chainz]

Aight aight, good statement man.

I do wanna here @ Budget Player Cadet_ 's opinion. Without having to read everything that was posted, lol. Give me a short description of your arguement man. I'm pretty curious on this subject now.

 

[Plunder]

Aight aight, good statement man.

I do wanna here @ Budget Player Cadet_ 's opinion. Without having to read everything that was posted, lol. Give me a short description of your arguement man. I'm pretty curious on this subject now.

Really dude? Just read what he wrote instead of asking him to repeat himself and give you spark notes....it's only like 2 paragraphs on this page.

 

[Chainz]

Really dude? Just read what he wrote instead of asking him to repeat himself and give you spark notes....it's only like 2 paragraphs on this page.

Oh, lol my bad. Thought you guys were posting as far back as first page.

EDIT: Both of yall seem to have the same opinion, lol. My bad, but I don't get why you both arguing at each other, lol. Pretty much the same points, just re-worded.

Aight never mind.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Exactly how bad is the discrimination towards women in the community? In the tournaments that I've been to. The few women players who were there, were never discriminated against. Hell, this one girl I talk over in SoCal is the only person I know that was discriminated against. She don't take it to heart tho. In Fact from what she told me. Anyone who has ever talked **** to her, has never been able beaten her in tournament play or friendlies, haha.

http://www.meleeitonme.com/expanded-information-on-voices-of-women-in-smash/

It's kind of enlightening. The list of women interviewed who did not experience any sexism is shorter than the list that got ***** by other members of the community. Like, a lot shorter.

 

[Plunder]

Oh, lol my bad. Thought you guys were posting as far back as first page.

EDIT: Both of yall seem to have the same opinion, lol. My bad, but I don't get why you both arguing at each other, lol. Pretty much the same points, just re-worded.

Aight never mind.

Yea that's kind of what I've been telling him this whole time. I've noticed within these forums a lot are more focused on forcing the continuation of the argument than actually getting to any truth or conclusive point.

I still don't understand him comparing race and gender and also thinking it's logical compare the Munich smash scene which is 1% the size of what we have here in America (actually even a state within America like California is 1.2x the size of the whole country of GERMANY)

Also this statement is so wacky -

They're different. They're "weird". They're a rarity. Look, the argument "this is just how it is because women are a minority" is nonsense. The fact that they're a minority has nothing to do with it. The problem is not that they're a minority, it's that people want to sleep with them. And you know what? That's something we can work on.

The rarity of females at these events does indeed have an affect. If women were as common as men at smash tournaments you wouldn't get even 90% of the "grillls" in chat and people going nutz over the 1 girl out of 10,000. And as I had said previously twice most of the man children and immature teens don't have much experience around women at all so they have no idea how to properly act around them or talk to them (rarity at the venue and in their own life experience). ALSO IF FEMALES WEREN'T THE MINORTY THEN THEIR VOICES WOULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO BE HEARD AND ADDRESSED SO MUCH FASTER IF THEY COMPRISED HALF THE POPULATION IN SMASH. THAT'S COMMON SENSE. The only reason for the above article you just posted Budget is BECAUSE they ARE the MINORITY, their concerns aren't being heard on account of their numbers being small.

His whole argument also pretty much kills his previous argument as well....so are black people not treated differently because people don't want to sleep with them? Yea, so I guess it is fair to compare black people to women at smash events.... same reasons and completely analogous right?

 

[Lichi]

I still don't understand him comparing race and gender and also thinking it's logical compare the Munich smash scene which is 1% the size of what we have here in America (actually even a state within America like California is 1.2x the size of the whole country of GERMANY)

You can be the 1 in 100 or the 100 in 10000, doesn't really matter. Also, I hope you think that California has 1.2 times more Smashers than the whole country of Germany (which would be oddly specific). But as it seems, you just compared the total land masses, which is hilarious.

 

[Plunder]

You can be the 1 in 100 or the 100 in 10000, doesn't really matter. Also, I hope you think that California has 1.2 times more Smashers than the whole country of Germany (which would be oddly specific). But as it seems, you just compared the total land masses, which is hilarious.

You are being quite naive if you think it doesn't matter.

Someone from a small town where everyone knows each other cannot be compared to 100 people in a large metropolis where anyone hardly knows each other and most are strangers.

Crime and interpersonal interactions are RADICALLY different. At certain points anonymity and mob mentality becomes exponentially more prevalent. When you think you can get away with something or when you don't know the person next to you people act in very different ways toward each other.

It's not oddly specific, he said he was comparing Munich to what we were discussing. What's hilarious is the blatant lack of intelligence, common sense, and comprehension you are showing right now. If you want to compare the smash scenes in one place to another you need to think about how different those places are in both size and population that actually participate.

 

[Lichi]

Munich is not small town in which everybody knows everyone. It is a large city, and even if it houses less smashers than any other US city of comparable size, if there are minorities in this scene, they are as much a minority as anywhere else. Being the one outcast in ten already sucks, and it's not like you got an easier time in that case.
Being a minority is a case of proportions, and those matter, not absolute numbers. And, for example, being part of the black population in Germany, certainly allows for comparisons to anywhere in the US. It's probably even worse, as you are not part of a 40.000.000 people minority in 320.000.000, but only one of ~500.000 in 80.000.000. One could argue that in here, you are even more of a minority. In total numbers as in ratio, you are even more outnumbered. Munich is only a slice of Germany, but it is legit to take it as an example for the situation in the rest of the country.
I like how you try to make a point on Germany being a smaller country than a single state of the US with California as an example, comparing the total space they both occupy, completely neglecting the fact that Germany has more than twice the population of California. But I guess having more land mass that is not as densely populated is relevant to making a point in demographics.

 

[Plunder]

Munich is not small town in which everybody knows everyone. It is a large city, and even if it houses less smashers than any other US city of comparable size, if there are minorities in this scene, they are as much a minority as anywhere else. Being the one outcast in ten already sucks, and it's not like you got an easier time in that case.
Being a minority is a case of proportions, and those matter, not absolute numbers. And, for example, being part of the black population in Germany, certainly allows for comparisons to anywhere in the US. It's probably even worse, as you are not part of a 40.000.000 people minority in 320.000.000, but only one of ~500.000 in 80.000.000. One could argue that in here, you are even more of a minority. In total numbers as in ratio, you are even more outnumbered. Munich is only a slice of Germany, but it is legit to take it as an example for the situation in the rest of the country.
I like how you try to make a point on Germany being a smaller country than a single state of the US with California as an example, comparing the total space they both occupy, completely neglecting the fact that Germany has more than twice the population of California. But I guess having more land mass that is not as densely populated is relevant to making a point in demographics.

Everything you just typed missed the point. You can't compare some local or regional (never heard of any large nationals hosted) in Munich to an event like EVO where 6,000 people come from across the world (and other majors we have). For some reason this is one of the main points that Budget decided to go with in his post about him running tournaments and kicking people out and whatever. Of comparative size and attendance we also don't have any problems....so this point makes no sense.

I use California as an example because in just 1 city in that state you can find smashers that surpass the entire skill level of the entire country of Germany. Or Australia or the UK, etc. The point of that statement is to clarify that you can't make these comparisons with such difference in culture, attendance, population, density of participation, and most importantly maturity. The US has a much less mature younger population which I already discussed is a result of having a higher age of consent, criminal responsibility, and so on. We baby our children and as a result they fail to become proper adults until they are much older. This is unfortunate, but it is what it is currently.

So who cares if you have no problems at some locals or regionals in Munich? Bringing that up means absolutely nothing to this conversation. They haven't had a murder or r*pe in 100 years in Rock Springs, Wyoming....are we gonna use that town as a comparison and model for how to fix the rampant crime in New York City, NY or Los Angeles? No because population, density, and size do matter in society.

If you can't see how comparing a tournament in a city in a state of Germany to massive majors and internationals we host then I can't see a reason to continue this.

 

[lolazerz]

IMO I've always tried to keep the same thing in mind when it comes to females in general. I just try to treat them like I would any of my male friends. The problem with that however is that, it's a really childish thing to assume that that'll work. In my experience I've only had one real lasting friendship with a female that I'd consider a friendship. In every other case with everyone else no-one wants to be friends. That could be for a variety of reasons ( the most prominent one being I'm just some nerdy high-school guy who won't stop talking about smash at a mother Clucking High-school in California ). You can't just say, "Act this specific way around every women" because Every human is different and everyone wants to be treated differently. IMO I don't even like or enjoy talking to the other sex because of the amount of negativity I've received in the past. Does that make me Gay or Bi I dunno. I'm gonna wait for my frontal Lobe to finish developing before I make any judgement calls on who I am as a person ( although I'm not gonna lie Roy is hella Sexy). Basically I don't have a lot of good experiences with females so I tend to avoid them because they mostly have caused me trouble in the past and I can only recall one good relationship I've had with someone.

TLDR; Just be chill, Don't be a ding-dong and don't make them feel uncomfortable.

 

[Plunder]

IMO I've always tried to keep the same thing in mind when it comes to females in general. I just try to treat them like I would any of my male friends. The problem with that however is that, it's a really childish thing to assume that that'll work. In my experience I've only had one real lasting friendship with a female that I'd consider a friendship. In every other case with everyone else no-one wants to be friends. That could be for a variety of reasons ( the most prominent one being I'm just some nerdy high-school guy who won't stop talking about smash at a mother Clucking High-school in California ). You can't just say, "Act this specific way around every women" because Every human is different and everyone wants to be treated differently. IMO I don't even like or enjoy talking to the other sex because of the amount of negativity I've received in the past. Does that make me Gay or Bi I dunno. I'm gonna wait for my frontal Lobe to finish developing before I make any judgement calls on who I am as a person ( although I'm not gonna lie Roy is hella Sexy). Basically I don't have a lot of good experiences with females so I tend to avoid them because they mostly have caused me trouble in the past and I can only recall one good relationship I've had with someone.

TLDR; Just be chill, Don't be a ding-dong and don't make them feel uncomfortable.

haha I love this post dude, it's honest and like a stream of conciseness.

You may not have translated your words in the most eloquent way but I get what you are trying to say, and I think it's important that we remember a point of view like yours. Most of us into Melee are in our 20s now or we are at least older than 18 and are in College/graduated, so we've forgotten what it's like to be full fledged teenager and some of the naive and immature stuff we thought was funny or acceptable. The questionable things we joined in on or even the things we never gave a second thought that we now give our undivided attention and concern (such as a topic like this). Younger males are a large demographic that makes up the stream monsters and new smash followers/players.

None of this applies to you since you seem to be more mature than most...

But like I was saying previously there is no easy way to control or change the mentality of a male teenager/man-child. In fact they will almost always do the opposite of what you tell them or ask of them and they won't learn in time. There are things I remember doing as a teenager that I think back on "wow I was dumb" or "man I hate how goofy and immature I used to " and I'm pretty sure I was way more mature than 95% of the other kids who were far worse. To change that mentality in our youth it needs to start at a younger age, we'd have to change social norms and expectations, peer relations, public schools, etc....it's a massive undertaking. With how ubiquitous the internet is and how it's teaching young people that they have this fake level of anonymity to get away with anything it's not helping at all.

p.s. Some advice for the opposite sex. Just be confident even if you are nervous. Even if you think you're too nerdy and some chick is out of your league or maybe even she thinks the same as long as you are confident and project that vibe it will change how they view you. Have the mentality that they should be just as nervous talking to you. They will be wondering why you are so confident, and you'll become a bit of a mystery to them AKA they will find you interesting and want to get to know you actually. Try to find common ground and let them know up front that you like them, etc.

 

[lolazerz]

p.s. Some advice for the opposite sex. Just be confident even if you are nervous. Even if you think you're too nerdy and some chick is out of your league or maybe even she thinks the same as long as you are confident and project that vibe it will change how they view you. Have the mentality that they should be just as nervous talking to you. They will be wondering why you are so confident, and you'll become a bit of a mystery to them AKA they will find you interesting and want to get to know you actually. Try to find common ground and let them know up front that you like them, etc.

Bruh. I don't need dating advice, It's just I'm the only one around here who's actually aware that He's a teenager in SoCal and No-one here has particularly Tickled my fancy as the cool kids say. And believe me I'm already a confident Mother ******, mostly because I just don't give a **** about how people perceive me because they don't know me on social media and In a few years I won't know them anyway. I just don't like talking to females here because they think that they should be entitled to be treated differently. Meaning they're spoiled and they think that just because they're a girl they're entitled to some special treatment

 

[Plunder]

Bruh. I don't need dating advice, It's just I'm the only one around here who's actually aware that He's a teenager in SoCal and No-one here has particularly Tickled my fancy as the cool kids say. And believe me I'm already a confident Mother ******, mostly because I just don't give a **** about how people perceive me because they don't know me on social media and In a few years I won't know them anyway. I just don't like talking to females here because they think that they should be entitled to be treated differently. Meaning they're spoiled and they think that just because they're a girl they're entitled to some special treatment

Ah okay nevermind then you seem to have it all figured out then man, sorry. Yea I have cousins that I visit in Cali every summer, it's such a different place the where I've lived and am living. I definitely am not a fan of the mentality or sub culture that is considered the "norm" out there. People are far too willing to act fake and live beyond their means while losing whatever shred of honesty and sincerity they might have ever had.

 

[lolazerz]

Ah okay nevermind then you seem to have it all figured out then man, sorry. Yea I have cousins that I visit in Cali every summer, it's such a different place the where I've lived and am living. I definitely am not a fan of the mentality or sub culture that is considered the "norm" out there. People are far too willing to act fake and live beyond their means while losing whatever shred of honesty and sincerity they might have ever had.

^This is why I plan on moving as soon as I finish High School. Just glad there's a good smash scene here