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Can we grow up about "grills"

SexyUnicorn

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Milktea has already done a speech on this I know, but this is half discussion fodder and half me getting salty. I'll tell you right now I'm transgender, and there is a very large reason that I haven't come out, started expressing myself etc., especially in the gaming community. For example, I was on vgbootcamp stream not two minutes from writing this, and there was a girl in the crowd. What is everyone's first reaction? "GRILL!" I messaged something along the lines of "This is part of the reason that there aren't more girls that play this game, cus people pull **** like this". And what is the first response? A mod, A MOD, telling me just one word. "Stop". I get that it wasn't the best of places to get salty, but it is a response that only made my flames burn more. It's an issue and it needs to stop. It makes people uncomfortable and it restricts me from being who I want to be. So grow. The. ****. Up. Thank you have a nice day.
 
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Essentially the gaming community which is male dominant and oriented towards a male bias should adopt more behaviors that you personally believe are female friendly in order to help your adjustment as a transgender because current culture as it is with norms like drawing attention to females is too much for you to tolerate.
 
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SexyUnicorn

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Just because something is made for males doesn't mean males can't be mature about females. I'm not saying it will happen ever, but it sure would be nice if I could be myself without being stared at or in some cases harassed by males because of my gender and the way I feel I should express myself.
 
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Have any subset of people belonging to the male gender harassed you because of your gender or the way in which you have chosen to express it.
 
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SexyUnicorn

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Yes, and that is part of the reason I don't express myself anymore. I didn't say it happened often, but IN SOME CASES yes it has happened and I don't like dealing with it.
 
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I got falsely apprehended by the cops because of racial profiling (the culprit was my friend). It was a sham case where the officers involved simply wanted to acquit me as a guilty party. I was a minor so I was only given suspension for two weeks and a leash agreement (couldn't get within fifty feet of the aggrieved party). They essentially manipulated me into testifying that I brandished an object when I didn't understand what the word meant. They told me that the word 'brandish' means to simply hold in one's hands. Which is not an accurate definition. I was in the third grade.

I don't like being mislabeled either and manipulated into false testimony. But I understand that it's an aspect that is present in society because social norms weren't created around your personal problems and complexes. They simply exist to label you and if you find people who can look at you beyond an initial impression, that's great. If not, then no one cares. I don't care. Can you tell me why I should care about your personal circumstances.
 
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Braydon

Smash Ace
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Feb 12, 2015
Messages
502
Still beats smashboards mods. At least they don't accuse you of time traveling...
 
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Messages
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Regarding the second part about how aggrieved you felt about forum authority. Much like the moderator told you to just "stop" reflects a request from the moderator for you to consider the greater community and leverage that against your own ideals. If you feel that your own personal opinions outweighs the opinions of others then the simple solution is for you to voice your opinion and risk getting a violation. Then again it is hard to consider the magnitude of violations since those have heavy consequences on your future...
 

Sucumbio

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Oh wait I found it, someone in League of Legends started this thinking it would be a clever way to demean female gamers and now it's spread to other gaming communities. How predictable.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
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Oh wait I found it, someone in League of Legends started this thinking it would be a clever way to demean female gamers and now it's spread to other gaming communities. How predictable.
I'm ♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖. And I'm been a member of this sub-group long before I even started to play League of Legends. You are being irrational if you are taking my discourse with @ SexyUnicorn SexyUnicorn to be an act of demaning female gamers as a general population when I haven't even gotten the chance to touch upon that because of how poorly put together her entire explanation is about her own personal issues. I'm sorry though if the new memo is that this sub-forum is going to be the new trash can for people who don't have a twitter account and that questioning what the **** people are even typing these days constitutes as showing disrespect towards half a gender. Tell me if there is something wrong with my ability to understand the main point about what she's typing.

"It's an issue and it needs to stop"

Am I the only one who feels that shouting "Girl!" in a room is not the main issue here, but only a symptom of gender bias which is the point she would probably make more coherently if she bothered to spend five minutes to re-read the steaming pile of dog**** she submitted and attempt to clarify her point in a more coherent manner? Because if that is truly the issue, then how is her revealing that she is transgendered even relevant to this case? Is her problem with the shouting of the word "Girl!" because she doesn't like people shouting or because she feels like she is being slandered? Does she even care to explain her position?

It's frustrating.
 
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Octavium

''Fear doesn't stop death, it stops life.''
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Honestly :<, most of us are mature enough to not be using any of these sexist terms, but considering the amount of men who go to these events, there's guaranteed to be a few dumb and sexist men, and we others can't always do much about it, we wouldn't be any better if we assaulted them in any way.
 

Nixon Corral

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Essentially the gaming community which is male dominant and oriented towards a male bias should adopt more behaviors that you personally believe are female friendly in order to help your adjustment as a transgender because current culture as it is with norms like drawing attention to females is too much for you to tolerate.
The gaming community is male dominant in part because of how hostile it is towards women. It's nauseating.
 

ButterMeister

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I don't give a damn who I'm playing with, as long as they're good people. Luckily I've never had problems with males harassing female players at locals. Of course, the only girls who ever show up are a players girlfriend they dragged along who doesn't want to enter. I imagine girls who would actually want to enter were scared away long ago.
 

Twewy

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Really, I agree with @ ButterMeister ButterMeister : I don't care who you are as long as you're being a cool person. When I'm playing a multiplayer game, I don't care about your gender/race/orientation/favorite flavor of milkshake, because I'm simply there for one thing: Playing video games.
 

Iceweasel

Smash Ace
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Jan 19, 2015
Messages
855
this is half discussion fodder and half me getting salty.
At least you're being honest about why you made this thread, the vast majority of OPs in this subforum disguise their rage/soapbox as an honest attempt to open a discussion on something.
 

Chinaux

Smash Ace
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Oct 1, 2014
Messages
632
Suck it up, lol. You're going to get more attention because you're the odd one out, you're a girl in a smash tournament. The attention will be there regardless. Now you have to go on smashboards and make a thread, attracting MORE ATTENTION to yourself, when you could've just shut up and took it as a compliment that you were getting extra attention.
 

Nixon Corral

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Suck it up, lol. You're going to get more attention because you're the odd one out, you're a girl in a smash tournament. The attention will be there regardless. Now you have to go on smashboards and make a thread, attracting MORE ATTENTION to yourself, when you could've just shut up and took it as a compliment that you were getting extra attention.
Holy **** there is so much wrong with this. This sort of tokenization and unwarranted attention is part of what brings about this gender skew, dude. "Sorry, we're all thirsty as ****, it's not our fault we're hitting on you, you shouldn't have come and hung around a bunch of dudes" is literally the worst excuse.
 
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Lichi

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Holy **** there is so much wrong with this. This sort of tokenization and unwarranted attention is part of what brings about this gender skew, dude. "Sorry, we're all thirsty as ****, it's not our fault we're hitting on you, you shouldn't have come and hung around a bunch of dudes" is literally the worst excuse.
It's poor, but at it's core it's true. A lot of gamers are single and dream about some gamer girlfriend. There's entire boards dedicated to nerds complaining about how they will never get a girlfriend (neglecting the fact that a) no girl has the obligation to be their girlfriend, and b) they put no effort into getting to know somebody). If you as a girl enter a hall filled with those type of pubertal boys, you will get attention, and a lot of it. You have to be prepared for that and deal with it, at least to a certain degree.

There is no quick term solution to this kind of problem. You cannot make miserable conditions disappear just like 'poof'. Bear with them for as long as it takes to make people understand - and make them understand.
 
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It's poor, but at it's core it's true. A lot of gamers are single and dream about some gamer girlfriend. There's entire boards dedicated to nerds complaining about how they will never get a girlfriend (neglecting the fact that a) no girl has the obligation to be their girlfriend, and b) they put no effort into getting to know somebody). If you as a girl enter a hall filled with those type of pubertal boys, you will get attention, and a lot of it. You have to be prepared for that and deal with it, at least to a certain degree.

There is no quick term solution to this kind of problem. You cannot make miserable conditions disappear just like 'poof'. Bear with them for as long as it takes to make people understand - and make them understand.
I believe the correct solution involves pointing to **** like this:

Suck it up, lol. You're going to get more attention because you're the odd one out, you're a girl in a smash tournament. The attention will be there regardless. Now you have to go on smashboards and make a thread, attracting MORE ATTENTION to yourself, when you could've just shut up and took it as a compliment that you were getting extra attention.
And shouting in a very loud voice that this is NOT OKAY. Women at smash tournaments shouldn't be the odd ones out, and they shouldn't be treated like the odd ones out when they are present. Call this crap out.
 
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Chinaux

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Messages
632
I believe the correct solution involves pointing to **** like this:



And shouting in a very loud voice that this is NOT OKAY. Women at smash tournaments shouldn't be the odd ones out, and they shouldn't be treated like the odd ones out when they are present. Call this crap out.
Unless a ton of girls get into smash, you're always going to be the odd ones out. Sorry, life's not fair.
 

Nixon Corral

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Unless a ton of girls get into smash, you're always going to be the odd ones out. Sorry, life's not fair.
And what you don't seem to understand is that callous and unfair attitudes like this are what's maintaining the gender skew. Video gaming culture is entrenched in sexism, which makes it unapproachable to women. A point you're proving singlehandedly.

That's like if people at a Country Club told the black family "Sorry people stare, you're just the only black people here!" That's ****ing stupid. We're all just people man. Treat everyone with the same dignity. Automatically classifying every woman you see at a gaming event as someone you can hit on, bother, or tokenize is a childish way to behave, and it shouldn't be tolerated in anyone.

This is all not to mention that if the gaming community were more welcoming to women, there would be more women in it, which would make this whole "gamer girlfriend" fantasy much less of a pipe dream.

There is no quick term solution to this kind of problem. You cannot make miserable conditions disappear just like 'poof'. Bear with them for as long as it takes to make people understand - and make them understand.
That's what I'm trying to do.
 
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D

DeleteThisAcct

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I yearn for a gaming girlfriend, ideally one that's mid-core (not a casual by any lenght, but not someone so hyper competitive that they suck the fun out of it - in my opinion - either, as I said in another thread - the moment I have to start counting frames in order to keep up skill wise, is where I draw the line - that's too serious even for me), but I know well enough to just glance from a safe distance longingly instead of approaching them and worsening the cycle. I guess I'm doomed to either A.) Be forever alone or B.) Settle for someone who isn't into gaming and thus not be able to share what I love most with the person I'm suppose to love most. (Edit: It'd be so much easier if a legit dating site or service for gamers existed, ideally a free one, instead of either half-baked or scam sites.)

Sucks. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go the salt mines now and wallow in self-pity about my situation.
 
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Iceweasel

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Is this still Smashboards or have I wandered onto Tumblr? I know that this site seems to cater to the Kotaku crowd, but this thread is this close to going Full McIntosh.

Yes, girls in the smash community get more attention than the guys. That's partially because they're girls and partially because they're the odd ones out. It's like being white at a Tyler Perry movie screening. A lot of people will notice and you'll get a lot of extra attention to sate peoples' curiosity. When the novelty factor wears off, you'll get near baseline attention.
 

Sucumbio

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It's interesting but table top gaming communities at least around here don't seem to have this issue despite being a similar community to video games.
 

Nixon Corral

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Is this still Smashboards or have I wandered onto Tumblr? I know that this site seems to cater to the Kotaku crowd, but this thread is this close to going Full McIntosh.

Yes, girls in the smash community get more attention than the guys. That's partially because they're girls and partially because they're the odd ones out. It's like being white at a Tyler Perry movie screening. A lot of people will notice and you'll get a lot of extra attention to sate peoples' curiosity. When the novelty factor wears off, you'll get near baseline attention.
There are a couple problems with this.

1) It is not audacious or "tumblresque" to expect the male-dominated gaming community to be welcoming to the entire other half of the population.

2) Like I said before, one of the big reasons video game culture is so male dominated is that it's incredibly impenetrable as a female due to the alienation/over-attention one receives simply for being a woman. It's also because the industry side is male dominated, so that mostly make games for men, but female under-representation in STEM is another issue entirely.

And acting like the novelty factor just wears off (as if that's any excuse) is ludicrous. Have you ever played a game with voice chat? Any time a girl tries to talk, it's ****ing mayhem. And from the accounts of female friends I have talked to about their experiences, there's nothing they can really do to get anyone to shut up about it. I'm not trying to invoke ad hominem here, but your male perspective is really not sufficient testimony as to how this cycle actually behaves.

Basically, I don't understand why everyone gets so defensive at the idea that maybe we, as a community, should try to be less weird and lecherous around the women that try to join our scenes. It's not that tall of an order.
 

Iceweasel

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There are a couple problems with this.

1) It is not audacious or "tumblresque" to expect the male-dominated gaming community to be welcoming to the entire other half of the population.

2) Like I said before, one of the big reasons video game culture is so male dominated is that it's incredibly impenetrable as a female due to the alienation/over-attention one receives simply for being a woman. It's also because the industry side is male dominated, so that mostly make games for men, but female under-representation in STEM is another issue entirely.

And acting like the novelty factor just wears off (as if that's any excuse) is ludicrous. Have you ever played a game with voice chat? Any time a girl tries to talk, it's ****ing mayhem. And from the accounts of female friends I have talked to about their experiences, there's nothing they can really do to get anyone to shut up about it. I'm not trying to invoke ad hominem here, but your male perspective is really not sufficient testimony as to how this cycle actually behaves.

Basically, I don't understand why everyone gets so defensive at the idea that maybe we, as a community, should try to be less weird and lecherous around the women that try to join our scenes. It's not that tall of an order.
1) We already do welcome the other half of the population. Most of them aren't interested. Brain chemistry and all that. Some people bend over backwards and the majority of women still aren't interested.

2) Source please. I play video games a lot, and yes, with voice chat. I have only seen one example of someone giving another player grief because of their gender, and that was from a known troll. I was about to kick the guy out of the group, but she told me to not worry about it.
 

Twewy

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It's interesting but table top gaming communities at least around here don't seem to have this issue despite being a similar community to video games.
I think because tabletop games are done with people who are expected to get to know each other via regular meetings. They just become part of the group and are just a member. They wouldn't care who the hell's playing, just as long as someone's playing with them. It's like a band. My dad plays in a local classic rock band and they're almost always looking for a drummer or a singer. They don't care who plays, just as long as they have those roles filled. If you don't show up/be an ass/not learn the lyrics to the song (No joke, they had this dude for like a year or a two who REFUSED to learn Keep On Rockin' In The Free World and would always improv. He's gone.), you're not welcome in the band. Hell the drummer's a woman and she's damn good, but no one draws attention to it because it doesn't matter, she's just there to rock out.

Have you ever played a game with voice chat? Any time a girl tries to talk, it's ****ing mayhem.
I used to be active in a TF2 community that slowly got as many girls as it did guys. They were treated equally on the server and no attention was drawn to them because they just played the game with their friends and just chilled. Take note that the group I'm a member of is basically "Lovable A-holes: The Community". Do something stupid or laughable, expect to get made fun of. The only time we had a situation where it was "a ****ing mayhem" was this woman who thought we were teasing her because "lol girl", when in fact she was being a bit of a ***** herself, and when she tried to argue she tried to shoehorn in that she was lesbian AND a girl. So she got essentially got told "Who cares".

TF2 has recently become a stupid and annoying community, but back then before all the dank memes and stupid attention to pink pixels in a 1960s spy film inspired game, it was tolerable and generally accepting as long you just played the game, even with voice chat. Because no one cared. They just wanted whatever was needed for their team, different crotch or not. Of course, there will also always be those types that treat a girl special because they're a girl and they want to be liked more by said girl. My community has also gotten this lately, where a girl friend of mine has gotten over 200 games on Steam, just because she was a girl. Those people are called desperate.

Players that are different from a group, however, will ALWAYS be pointed out for whatever reason, because they are different from the usual player. Noah in MvC3 was like 8 or 9 and people were wild that a 9 year old was trashing EVO with friggin' Hulk, of all characters. People were surprised that Brolylegs, a disabled dude who literally plays with one hand and his tongue+cheek, was stomping some ass at SF4 with Chun-Li while also playing Melee. Officer Jenny goes to S@X and wins matches with her ZSS. Zero has a damn nickname because he was the only dude wearing a scarf in tournies he went to. They're all treated with respect (Zero is debatable, he has a lot of hate going for him) because they're all good players.


Like Iceweasel said though, a lot of female gamers just aren't interested in competitive Smash. I understand the want for more acceptance for women in gaming groups, but if you want the women in this community to be accepted the easiest way to accept it is not draw attention to it. Like, really. Don't give a crap if a girl's there or not. And if you're going by a Twitch chat to judge how things are going on at a tourney like S@X or whatever, remember: It's Twitch chat. Really.


Seriously, if you're actually there at a tourney and there's a girl, want to know how to make them feel accepted? Want to know how to make anyone of any race/sexuality/main/favorite milkshake flavor feel accepted? Don't care. Don't make a big deal about it. A girl at the tourney won't know what's going on in some chat designed to contain annoying comments from random people they'll possibly never meet unless you go "Hey wanna see what people on the Internet think of you playing video games?" If they ARE one of those types that draw attention to their gender, for some reason? Ignore them.

TL;DR Where's my post above about not caring about who the person playing with you is? Follow it. Follow it and play video games.

If parts of this post go off-topic or not make sense, I'm sorry: It's late and I'm half asleep.
 
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Seriously, if you're actually there at a tourney and there's a girl, want to know how to make them feel accepted? Want to know how to make anyone of any race/sexuality/main/favorite milkshake flavor feel accepted? Don't care. Don't make a big deal about it. A girl at the tourney won't know what's going on in some chat designed to contain annoying comments from random people they'll possibly never meet unless you go "Hey wanna see what people on the Internet think of you playing video games?" If they ARE one of those types that draw attention to their gender, for some reason? Ignore them.

TL;DR Where's my post above about not caring about who the person playing with you is? Follow it. Follow it and play video games.

If parts of this post go off-topic or not make sense, I'm sorry: It's late and I'm half asleep.
This. So much this.
 

Sucumbio

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WoW has plenty of gals. Heck all kinds of games do. Its fighting game communities that seem to get the bad rap.
 

Twewy

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Fighting games are a more niche genre, compared to the super popular WoW and even more super popular MOBAs and FPSes. EVO is big and Smash is certainly growing, but no way in hell will they compare to things like the Invitational.

Yes I'm still awake. Yes, I do hate it.
 
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Nixon Corral

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1) We already do welcome the other half of the population. Most of them aren't interested. Brain chemistry and all that. Some people bend over backwards and the majority of women still aren't interested.

2) Source please. I play video games a lot, and yes, with voice chat. I have only seen one example of someone giving another player grief because of their gender, and that was from a known troll. I was about to kick the guy out of the group, but she told me to not worry about it.
With respect to your first point, I really don't think that's true. Video games, even in their infancy, were marketed towards boys, nearly always had male protagonists, etc. None of this has changed. A lot of what people's interests arise from is what they were doing as kids, because there's so much installed knowledge you can gain as a child that's hard to get once you're an adult with obligations. Since video games aren't and never have been considered a very girly thing, only young girls that are reasonably immune to caring about social pressure will maintain the hobby, if it was ever facilitated by their parents to begin with. This, to me, is a lot like saying "minorities just aren't interested in golf." Well, that's not entirely untrue, but that's because it's so entrenched in being white-dominated (and frankly racist) that it's not a part of most non-white families' history. It's not something most non-white kids' parents are gonna take them out to play, so that's where the lack of interest develops. I think the same is true of the male-dominated gaming sphere.

With respect to your second point, I'm not gonna just link you to the facebook pages of the girls I've heard these stories from so they can tell you themselves, and it's not like I've recorded all the cringey **** in my years of TF2 and CS. You have your anecdotes and I have mine, and I guess we'll just leave it at that.

Like Iceweasel said though, a lot of female gamers just aren't interested in competitive Smash. I understand the want for more acceptance for women in gaming groups, but if you want the women in this community to be accepted the easiest way to accept it is not draw attention to it. Like, really. Don't give a crap if a girl's there or not. And if you're going by a Twitch chat to judge how things are going on at a tourney like S@X or whatever, remember: It's Twitch chat. Really.


Seriously, if you're actually there at a tourney and there's a girl, want to know how to make them feel accepted? Want to know how to make anyone of any race/sexuality/main/favorite milkshake flavor feel accepted? Don't care. Don't make a big deal about it. A girl at the tourney won't know what's going on in some chat designed to contain annoying comments from random people they'll possibly never meet unless you go "Hey wanna see what people on the Internet think of you playing video games?" If they ARE one of those types that draw attention to their gender, for some reason? Ignore them.

TL;DR Where's my post above about not caring about who the person playing with you is? Follow it. Follow it and play video games.

If parts of this post go off-topic or not make sense, I'm sorry: It's late and I'm half asleep.
I completely agree with this. If I ever implied that I didn't, I surely didn't mean to. That's all I'm trying to say is don't tokenize and alienate people.
 

Iceweasel

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There we go! Golf is racist. Full McIntosh achieved! Pack it up everybody, this thread just became too silly to continue.
 

Nixon Corral

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There we go! Golf is racist. Full McIntosh achieved! Pack it up everybody, this thread just became too silly to continue.
Not really that controvertible of a claim.

"Until 1983, all players in the Masters were required to use the services of an Augusta National Club caddy, who by club tradition was always an African American male. Indeed, club co-founder Clifford Roberts is reputed to have said, "As long as I'm alive, golfers will be white, and caddies will be black."

But if ad hominem is the only leg you've got left to stand on, that's fine too.

And I'll admit that my perspective may be skewed by growing up in the South, but golf is absolutely a good old boy network if I ever saw one.
 
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Twewy

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McIntosh is a very odd creature of a man. He seems to hate everything imaginable when it comes to video games despite running a Twitter that is ****ing based around "tropes vs. women in games".
 
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