can anyone apply shield pressure in this game?

[ep1c_marf]

im sorry if this is a scrubby question i just come from pm and melee and i love applying shield pressure. can any character in this game do that?

 

[ATH_]

Yeah, but it's not as relevant. It's subtle and only is relevant when someone charges a smash.

But iunno maybe I misunderstood what exactly you were asking, lots of people use "pressure" in different ways these days.

 

[PKBeam]

shield pressure... as in messing with someone's shield and them not being able to do anything about it?
say... if you used a multi hitting shield eating move with 0 shield advantage and landed behind them?

 

[ATH_]

shield pressure... as in messing with someone's shield and them not being able to do anything about it?
say... if you used a multi hitting shield eating move with 0 shield advantage and landed behind them?

Some would say it's doing damage to a shield in a safe way, say with a projectile or such.
Some would say it's doing damage to a shield at all.
Some would way it's approaching with any sort of shield disruption such as a grab or shieldbreaking move.

The list goes on.

 

[PKBeam]

Some would say it's doing damage to a shield in a safe way, say with a projectile or such.
Some would say it's doing damage to a shield at all.
Some would way it's approaching with any sort of shield disruption such as a grab or shieldbreaking move.

The list goes on.

but most would say it's applying pressure to a shield.

 

[ATH_]

but most would say it's applying pressure to a shield.

Yeah, I get that, the point is that some people take the word "pressure" differently. Hence me asking. :3

 

[link2702]

not really unfortunately. Shields are insanely safe just like in brawl.

 

[PKBeam]

Shields have been nerfed. Shield damage is a lot more as seen in stall and fall down bs like yoshi, bowser etc. plus being dazed after a shield break is longer. Also in brawl some characters were really good at applying pressure to shields.

 

[HeavyLobster]

DK can pressure shields very effectively. Both his side and down b attacks do lots of shield damage. I remember seeing one tournament with Will where I think he got shield breaks against like 3 different top players and had a number of near misses. I think he probably has the best shield pressure in the game.

 

[Raijinken]

I agree with HeavyLobster, DK's is probably the strongest. But no, you can't trap someone in a shield for days, defense is useful here.

If you've got DK or Marth, and maybe some others like Mac and Ness, you can certainly threaten to break your opponent's shield if they're not good at perfect-shielding. But shieldstun is low enough that you can't just bash 'em and run away for free from it.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

The interesting about shields now, though, is the fact that shield lag is much longer. Basically, if you put up a shield but are not hit, you suffer from lag when you put the shield down. So, the best way to pressure shield is to not actually. So right when your opponent drops it, you get the chance to attack. It's why pivot techniques are crucial in smash 4. Just run past the enemy and pivot tech.

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Bowser eats shields for breakfast.. I wouldn't say he "pressures" them. But don't try to block his downB ;P

 

[Asdioh]

Some would say it's doing damage to a shield in a safe way, say with a projectile or such.
Some would say it's doing damage to a shield at all.
Some would way it's approaching with any sort of shield disruption such as a grab or shieldbreaking move.

The list goes on.

Since he said he comes from Melee/PM, I think he mostly means attacking shields safely. An example of that from Melee would be Fox's Shine/SHFFL aerials. The speed combined with the shieldstun makes it either impossible, or ridiculously hard, to react.

@Shaya can anyone apply shield pressure in this game? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Teshie U]

Shields take quite a bit of damage in this game. While there isn't much in the way of frame safe attacking in this game, there are lots of ways and situations to space yourself away from burst options so your opponent can't shield drop and reach you before you recover. This make shield pressure a bit more dynamic as its more about avoid a specific character's defensive punish options, as opposed to chaining shield stun with quick, strong moves.

As an example, Ganondorf can easily apply shield pressure to characters with slower dash options with Fsmash and Dair, as the monstrous shield push forces anyone to shield drop and dash for any hope of being near him again. It also helps that he does so much damage that you often can't let him get away with a clean hit on your shield more than once.

At top level play, no one should really ever be getting their shields broken. But the real pressure comes from forcing your opponent to dodge or counterattack before they are ready to.

 

[dragontamer]

At top level play, no one should really ever be getting their shields broken

IIRC, a DK player scored a shield break against Mew2King in tournament play. All of DK's B attacks break shields ridiculously fast. Its a major threat from that character. Marth's shieldbreaker can also score a good shield break after a few shielded Fairs.

Beyond that, I think the most "shield pressure" occurs from command grabs in this game. Lucario side-b, Robin down-b, Bowser side-b. Etc. etc.

 

[Asdioh]

It did happen, but that's the kind of stuff that happens when you're unfamiliar with characters. Once people get used to how characters work at top levels of play, it will happen much more rarely. If he was used to fighting DKs, he would have at least dropped his shield and taken a bit of damage, rather than letting it break. The same with Bowser Bombs: during the first 3DS tournament we saw Bowser Bomb break shields from full, but now that people know that, they're much less likely to let it happen.
But yes DK has great shield pressure. So does Sheik because of fast aerials with low lag, followed by fast followups.

 

[Teshie U]

DK's Down B is a bit lackluster in that regard because its too commited to really allow him to follow up and abuse the weakened shield or punish the options that would avoid the break.

Quick characters are almost always the best at this, because they force you out of your shield and into a vulnerable state, as opposed to trying to force your into your shield for the unlikely shield break.

 

[ATH_]

In that case, Yoshi's Dash Attack is the first thing that comes to mind. It puts you past the shield almost every time which keeps you from getting grabbed in most cases at least.

 

[Nobie]

I find that Little Mac is quite strong at pressuring shields, because a lot of his attacks have a lot of pushback that makes it difficult to retaliate out of shields, and he often can attack quickly enough to surprise you once you leave your shield.

 

[Anorith]

Megaman actually has a way to shield pressure similar to multishining from melee and pm. It is done using a method called jump cancel glide tossing. A guy on youtube made a video about it his name is My Smash Corner, check it out.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Shields recover in like 4 seconds.

 

[Swoops]

What is shield health in Smash 4? 50 HP?

Seems like it as Ganondorf u-tilt pretty much breaks shield in one blow, and it sits at just below 50 shield damage.

 

[Jebus244]

Jig's neutral special, rollout, does decent shield damage, and her puff pound breaks shields in like 3 hits or something. I haven't tested, but playing againsts her, I had minimal shield damage and she broke my shield in two hits with it!

 

[PHYTO-1]

yoshi's dair eat shields real nice-like.

but as a little mac main, i've broken like 5 shields out of how ever hundreds of matches ive played. which is more than all my years of playing brawl at this point.

 

[MezzoMe]

For my mains, I know that the following moves can apply shield pressure in the sense of "limiting your opponent's options".
In other words, the moves that don't let your opponent to counterattack after they shield your attack, and, aside the formerly mentioned 11 frames encase in the shield before being able to drop it, they are character specific, specifically I use
:USmash
:Lunar Landing(Nair being the best); rapid jab
: Floatingand retreating Fairs/Dairs(I'm unsure about this since she's my secondary, but I've never seen anyone getting punished and, needless to say, it requires the right positioning).
Why do they apply shield pressure?
Ganon's USmash kills at 93% and deals 23% damage, as such the opponent reacts by shielding, however it eats a good chunk of the shield, all the while it has close to no endlag, and attempting to just run in to close the lushback only results in a F/DTilt, as such the opponent is limited in his options.
Rosalina's Lunar Landing allows her to act freely while Luma attacks, that means that she has a literal frame advantage over the shielding opponent, and if you lunar land the Nair, you can even go past your opponent to hit him/her twice.
Tl;dr:

 

[DungeonMaster]

Samus breaks shields like no other. Super-missile combos into charge shot. I dizzy people regularly.

 

[Sattoz]

Play peach and get Mr.Saturn every time?
But in all seriousness it really is difficult to break shields in this game, especially if your character doesn't have a good shield breaking move (e.g Yoshi's down air/Shield Breaker/Pound).

 

[SuaveChaser]

Sheilds regen super fast so not really lol.

 

[Terotrous]

As noted by others, in this game shield pressure basically equates to putting the opponent in a situation where they're at risk of shield break, thereby allowing you to pressure them more effectively for a few seconds.

There are a few moves that have the ability to break shields really well in this game, either because they deal extra shield damage or because when hitting a shield they have the potential to hit twice. If you have any shield damage at all, you'd better not try to block some of those attacks.

 

[Zelder]

This is literally the only Smash game where I've ever seen someone get their shield broken in a competitive environment. It's never been easy to break a shield, but it seems like it actually occasionally happens in this one.

 

[Dr. Z]

Like most people have been saying DK can break shields relatively well and so can Marth neutral b. Overall shields don't break that often.

 

[Flawed]

I witnessed a game in which a bowser sat in shield vs a marth and marth did a shield breaker, leaving boswer with an M&M shaped shield. The boswer immediately pressed down b, and broke marths shield instantly.

This game lmao

 

[B.A.M.]

im sorry if this is a scrubby question i just come from pm and melee and i love applying shield pressure. can any character in this game do that?

Iono what the hell people are telling you lol. Ill answer the question for you mah man. The answer is yes some characters can however it isnt as prominent or similar as melee or pm. certain characters such as sheik can do think like a landing fair on shield, which when spaced properly is safe and then use her jabs to counterpoke most options OoS including grab. Fox's bair is safe on shield as well and he can utilize his absurd jabs or his reverse utilt that comes out on frame 3 I believe, to counter poke an opponent existing out of shield. Then theres particular tilts and pivot tilts that are ridiculously safe on shield by their sheer frames or in the case of pivot tilts, by the distance they created away from the opponent. there are also characters who are pretty safe when they perform a cross up nair on shield ( obviously it depends on the character being used). Also in this game there are a multitude of characters that have projectile/traps that can be utilized to apply shield pressure, ex: Villager's Lloid Rocket.

The shield stun is far lower than what you are probably used to coming from melee and p:m however there are ways to be slightly negative on block and still be able to pressure in this game because of the frames required to shield drop, do an attack OoS etc. the fastest offensive option OoS in this game is for the majority of the cast grab, however grabs do not have super armor in this game thus jabs will beat them out easily. This is something huge to be wary of in this game and is also a reason why cross ups are so important to shield pressure.

One more thing that is very important; in this game the shield dwindles far more quickly than other smash titles. It is easier to shield poke and to shield break in this game that any other iteration in the series aside from 64. certain moves will virtually take out shields in a single hit, ex: bowser bomb, while certain moves will take out a shield if your opponent has shielded once before, ex: yoshi bomb, DK headbutt, Marth/Lucina shield breaker ( note shield breaker will of course break a shield in one hit if charged), etc. In the case of Donkey Kong, his down b once blocked by shield forces you to either let go and take the damage or itll break your shield.There are a multitude more moves that will shield poke if your opponent has used their shield only once before, ex: Kirby dair, Falco fair,etc. So there are ways to actually by passed shield in general.


So all in all the 5 ways to pressure shield in this game:

1. certain characters can space aerials> jab
2. cross up aerials( tend to be nairs) and certain spaced/pivot tilts
3.projectile and traps ( which are more common in this series)
4. shield bypass: shield poking moves or shield breakers

and one of the most important in ANY Smash game.............





5. Wait

waiting has always been a strong way to pressure a shield in a smash title and in this one its no different. While the shield is easier to drop, the time they can spend in shield before virtually everything starts poking is less that in previous titles. Which means waiting even a little bit is detrimental. So little delays can be very important. there are also the cases where wait can be used in a combination of the above tactics. I always love to drop this video because its simply a core tenet of fighting games that seems to just disappear from the Smash psyche with each new title ( well not just seems it has to do with this generation of new competitive gamers and the lack of continuity among the Smash community in terms of support, but thats a whole other topic.) soooooo yeah:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFtGQRm1bTg

 

[Teshie U]

What is shield health in Smash 4? 50 HP?

Seems like it as Ganondorf u-tilt pretty much breaks shield in one blow, and it sits at just below 50 shield damage.

Not sure about the health of shields, but Ganondorf's Uptilt does like 28 damage. Potent shield breaking moves have special bonuses to shield damage. For example, in Brawl shields had 70HP and Jigg's pound did 10-12 damage but did 30-40 to shields.

With that said, Ganondorf has quite a few moves that leave a shield looking pretty shaky despite doing less than 20 damage. Bair, Dair, Aerial Wizkick, USmash, FSmash all seem to do more shield damage than their damage would suggest.

Not to mention he also has the strongest move on the game (Warlock Punch) so he can kill at under 20% off of broken shields.

 

[Octavium]

Characters with low landing lag can, I know for sure Zamus's Bair can pressure shield IF spaced well. Her Nair is usually* safe if you pop a jab right after. But you rarely get free hits on a shield.

And SH bair spam will make you punishable. Since the bair needs to be timed at a constant frequency (with spacing) for it to safely hit a shield, unless your opponent is huge. (SH+BAIR & FF, or SH+falling at half heigh&BAIR)

 

[David Viran]

Characters with low landing lag can, I know for sure Zamus's Bair can pressure shield IF spaced well. Her Nair is usually* safe if you pop a jab right after. But you rarely get free hits on a shield.

And SH bair spam will make you punishable. Since the bair needs to be timed at a constant frequency (with spacing) for it to safely hit a shield, unless your opponent is huge. (SH+BAIR & FF, or SH+falling at half heigh&BAIR)

You don't even need to jab after nair. What you do after nair is very important though same with Bair I'm pretty sure this goes for all characters that can do this too.

In zss's case you could jab, ftilt, SH backwards and nair or paralyzer, try to cross up, grab, or maybe try to react to what they do. There's some probably others that I missed.

 

[Octavium]

I'm aware of the options, but shield and jab are usually the safest, as they have a 1-frame startup. Also Jab generaly beats the oponent's shield grab rather well.

Backwards SH is a good one too, unless you were practically huging the shielding opponent during your landing.

Other than that you have a 4-frame Utilt, 6-frame Ftilt, 8-frame downtilt, 16-frame grab. Heck, if you`re confident the opponent has crap reaction time, you can even downsmash.

I still feel like you can never truely garanteed shield pressure in sm4sh. Everything has a sort of commitment, and I actually love it that way.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Mega man can break a shield using jump cancelled metal blades into the ground. In my experience, it's reasonably easier than doing Fox's multiple jump cancelled shines in place from Melee, but not by much. Here's a video example at 2:30

The only problem I can imagine is that since Mega Man has to move forward in order for his sliding toss to hit the opponent, if you've got them against a ledge, they may get pushed off if they're stuck in shield, leading them to safety. Or maybe the movement would eventually force mega man to move past the target. I don't have firsthand experience to know if this is the case.

 

[Rokuro777]

Shield pressure is most definetly in the game, but I have not seen many shield breaks.

People tend to like to grab over-shielders too much for a shield to even stay out that much.

People wanna go into their D-Throw to U-Air combos real bad

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shield pressure = block pressure.

OP wants to know who can apply safe pressure to force reactions that can be taken advantage of.

To answer the question, not many chars have truly reliable shield pressure. Sheik, ZSS, Little Mac, Captain Falcon to some extent. Most shield pressure is just one or two spaced pokes then you wait. You will not see the insane shield pressure from Melee and PM in this game.