camping/mindgames discussion

[Hax]

camping is very important in smash; making your opponent mess up as they approach you is crucial as it gives you the opening you need for a grab.

captain falcon does not have a projectile (the gun at his waist doesn't do anything.. mindgames son) which makes it harder for him to camp against other characters such as marth and peach, but knowing how to make people mess up will definitely help you in many matches.

this thread is meant for people to discuss methods of camping/mindgaming people; something I consider necessary for good falcons. i'll start it off with one of the most basic methods of mindgames: empty short-hops. these can easily be used to make your opponent roll, try to attack you, etc. short hopping in front of an opponent can make them think you're about to attack them, while you are able to waveland backwards if they shffl an aerial at you, or waveland forward if they roll away.

please post more methods of mindgaming your opponent here. I hope this thread helps everyone.

 

[halfDemon]

Dash Dance.

 

[Hax]

dashdancing is pretty basic also, but for some reason it doesn't work well for me. i play lots of marth/peach, and when i dashdance, i don't know what to do when a marth short-hops and fairs (without landing on the floor), or when a peach FC-nairs me. i really, really hate those 2 matchups mainly because of their priority.

this is kind of embarassing lol.. i place high at tournies but i don't know what to do out of a dashdance.

 

[Lovage 805]

to close a short distance against someone like Sheik/fox I love the classic drop off ledge -> backair. they jump at the opportunity for a gimp kill to get backhanded

 

[Psychoace]

Yell at them with an empty short hop "ARE YOU READY? Fal-con Pawn....waveland back.

 

[Baseline]

wondering can u use a few things like moonwalking to grab or aerial to throw their game off or cancelin the stomp for confusion. a few times while in point blank of a person throwin a projectile i have ran away to dodge the projectile wave dash to stop the run animation and ran forward to get back in range. Falcon is a projectile he can knee with his head. is it just me or people hate falcon's grab

 

[muesli]

I consider to dash dance or do some weird performances like SH Dair with SHFFL or running towards your opponent and doing a "really" good moonwalk to confuse him (maybe it works on players with lesser smash-experience) for advanced players you should try to do some special move sets. I don't know really a good idea because I needn't to camp but some times I do it.



muesli

 

[ThatGuy]

Odd. I can't live to play Captain Falcon without the Dashdance. It's what makes his movement so flexible for me.

Dash dancing is crucial for people who opt for a vertical approach. This means that the attack is coming from above (if it's coming from below, well you shouldn't be allowing that in the first place...), in an attempt to outflank you. You can dashdance out of range, and come back with a grab or a SHFFL stomp when they land. Even spacies have trouble getting a shine off if you opt to stomp because it's out of their range.

Dashdancing is bad when people go for a horizontal approach, however. This means they SHFFL their attack with full momentum. For example, in a CF ditto, try a fullspeed nair, you will not be able to dashdance away from that. This will cut off your running motion a huge amount. To counter this, a vertical attack will decimate this 100%. The best way is to double jump instantly and come down with an ariel fast.

If you both attempt a vertical attack, DO NOT GET UNDER THE OTHER PLAYER! Try to go as slow as possible and connect your attack above theirs, boom headshot. It works like a charm. Note that this will not work if you're against Marth, I would suggest instead to airdodge the hell out of that situation if a platform is available.

If you both attempt a horizontal attack, things could get tricky because Falcon's priority sucks compared to other characters. You need to place them so that they will outspeed their attack or (somehow) outspace them.

Sorry, there wasn't much here about camping, this is more general Falcon strategy everyone should know. Essentially, in my eyes, Dashdance camping is best used for punishing vertical attacks, and ground attacks. It is bad if they resort to horizontal attacks. Vertical attacks are best used for punishing horizontal attacks. Horizontal attacks are best used for punishing dashdancing, and projectiles. Ground attacks are best used for when the situation calls for them (because they can be good against anything or bad against everything, depending on what you use...).

 

[BigRick]

lol empty short-hopping is too good I ***** that ****

 

[Brookman]

I like double jump camping, and platform camping, and edge camping, and back air camping. Camping in your approach is pretty good too, but harder than just defensive camping. I like wavedashing in place as opposed to backwards in a lot of situations.

I know it's kind of risky, and I've not really tried it too much myself, but in the situation where marth is just short hopping fairs, or maybe double fairs, but not approaching, you can try rolling behind him >_>

It's a little risky, and you'd have to time it for when the first fair is coming out. They could react to it, though. I recommend just trying it out for yourself. >_<

 

[JonaDiaper]

i havent done this but i just thought of it. standing still ( i know your never supposed to stand still with falcon but listen) waiting for you opponent to attack you then running right past them and wave dashing back and shhfl a b-air. i would think this would work. standing stiill is a good mind game.

 

[Taalcon]

Lolz, against shieks who are going to fair/nair you in the face, wavedash back and hit them with a f-tilt. Works like a charm. I <3 angled f-tilts.

 

[Lovage 805]

Dash dance, platform dashing, double jumping with aggressive DI, and my new favorite move ever, Dtilt

 

[Hax]

nice posts ThatGuy, Brookman, and Taalcom. i'm definitely gonna try to incorporate this stuff into my game.

also, here are 2 pretty good mindgames i've learned from isai. they work easily against people who don't know about them, but not against more exp'd players.

1.dsmash is a common move for techchasing. if you uthrow/dthrow your opponent, turn around and charged a dsmash. if they tech in place or away from you, wait for them to stand still (waiting to get a grab) and then let go of the dsmash. as soon as they go in for the grab, forward-b them or dashdance back and grab them. dsmash has nearly no lag after the 2nd hit, and many people don't know about this. this works best against sheik because she'll try to dash attack you, and also good against fox/falco/falcon

2.if you're on the edge (this works best against sheik/falco/falcon/fox), camp for a little bit. then quickly ledgehop, do a perfect waveland off the stage, and jump towards the stage and stomp your crouchcancelling opponent. i would only try to stomp the 4 characters i mentioned above; don't stomp marth's because they can WD back and fsmash. against marth, i'd airdodge when you think the fsmash is coming (don't stomp)

 

[Lovage 805]

Hax, that No.2 is my favorite camp of all time, I call it the curly knee. Landdash back from the ledge, jump up and knee will destroy their grab/shine/dtilt.

 

[jmic]

Dash dance into shield. Shield stops you in your tracks, and people are like, wtf where'd you go?

It works wonders against horizontal approaches, like against Falcon's Nair, or Marth's Fairs. From there you can proceed to grab or aerial.

If a Marth keeps spamming SH double Fair, run up to him and shield, and Nair or Uair out of your shield after the first hit. You really have to have good timing and a good reaction time, but it scares the **** out of Marths because their best aerial approach has been broken.

People need to learn to pivot to. Pivot Fsmash is ****ing amazing because of the lean back action Falcon does to dodge attacks or grabs. It's really not that hard to learn.

In terms of camping though, Poke Floats ftw. No one else can camp better on that stage than Falcon.

 

[g-regulate]

i spam aerials and platform-cancelled aerials as fast as humanly possible, hoping they'll run into one.

 

[TheManaLord]

dash dancing and pivot nairs

 

[Baseline]

dash dance, do retreating nairs, uair for some horizontal attacks, use over B as a dodge from him winding the punch. if a person is afraid to tech do a double stomp while they are standing,when they get up from a missed tech do another stomp while they are getting up. sometimes some people won't tech the stomp if they expected something else and after the third stomp some people will be mad because of the damage dealt and they are floating in the air for another combo.

 

[Hax]

Dash dance into shield. Shield stops you in your tracks, and people are like, wtf where'd you go?

It works wonders against horizontal approaches, like against Falcon's Nair, or Marth's Fairs. From there you can proceed to grab or aerial.

If a Marth keeps spamming SH double Fair, run up to him and shield, and Nair or Uair out of your shield after the first hit. You really have to have good timing and a good reaction time, but it scares the **** out of Marths because their best aerial approach has been broken.

People need to learn to pivot to. Pivot Fsmash is ****ing amazing because of the lean back action Falcon does to dodge attacks or grabs. It's really not that hard to learn.

In terms of camping though, Poke Floats ftw. No one else can camp better on that stage than Falcon.

i like the shield -> nair approach. maybe i could DD, then shield, then nair. i've gotta try that man, thanks.

also, to the guy who agreed with that 2nd mindgame i posted, it's good but don't use it excessively. most people who know about it expect stomps btw, so i'd probably just airdodge towards them to get on the stage imo. falcon has a hard time getting on the stage when he's on the ledge; people will just crouchcancel your ledgehopped aerials - that's why i really like this trick.

 

[BoomStick]

falcon is not invincible on the edge. ledge camping WILL get you shined. and not if...WHEN you get hit..you lose your double jump..and any chance of getting back against good players.

Camping with falcon is not a good idea. be smart about how you approach..but if you don't stay on top of your opponent..you will get camped..and any character short of the low tiers can out-camp a falcon any day of the week.

The best mind games with him involve his dashdance...it's really long..so you can run at them from a good distance..turn back..and run at them again..usually forcing a spot dodge/shine/jab..then you grab them, and let the combo/tech chase begin...

9/10 defensive falcons are scrubs.

 

[jmic]

Another way to get back to stage is to ledge jump (press x/y while hanging from the ledge) while DIing backwards, double jump fast fall a Nair.

The duration of the Nair almost always allows for you opponent to get hit. Don't spam this all the time, just mix it up with ledge hop Nair.

Use it wisely, my sons, as you are DIing backwards. Any hit will kill you.

Camping with falcon is not a good idea.

9/10 defensive falcons are scrubs.

I think we're talking about dash dance camping.

And tell that to Jiano and Isai's face.

 

[abit_rusty]

Ledgehop to aerial dodge works against an aggressive player (works nicely vs that certain marth waiting with an fsmash or down tilt). Like everything else don't spam it. Combine it with all these other ledge tricks.

 

[Brookman]

Beast mode!!!

where's my controller, nigra?

 

[jazzlypuff]

Little trick I like.
Run towards them, they shield expecting aerial, DD once or twice for pressure then run past them like half a characters length, nubs will grab/spot Dodge, knee

 

[Brookman]

The last post in this topic before I bumped it is from 2007, just a warning.

 

[Windrose]

I just realized I was reading a thread started in 07.......


The advice in here are pretty good and I would've never found this thread if someone didn't revive it...

still probably worth discussing now...or at least reading...

Not sure how much of this is still applicable mindgames now in 2011. I'm going to try that throw to downsmash trick. I didn't know the lag after the second hit was slim to none.

 

[0Room]

Isai did that trick multiple times

 

[Windrose]

Do you happen to have a link to this trick being done on video?

 

[0Room]

If I can find it I will link it

I wanna say it was Isai (CF) vs Panda (Shiek) on YS
But that match apparently doesn't exist
I do know it was Isai vs a white-color scheme sheik on YS

In the meantime
Here's something interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFN4VYOhIKE

 

[Walt]

Oh man I forgot about the jump needle charge cancel waveland trick.

And Scar always gets so much momentum off that good combo starter.

 

[Windrose]

Wait, what does that video have to do with anything? o_O

 

[0Room]

Nothing
Just something I found while looking for that match

 

[Brookman]

I just realized I was reading a thread started in 07.......


The advice in here are pretty good and I would've never found this thread if someone didn't revive it...

still probably worth discussing now...or at least reading...

Not sure how much of this is still applicable mindgames now in 2011. I'm going to try that throw to downsmash trick. I didn't know the lag after the second hit was slim to none.

that's why I bumped it silly.

 

[0Room]

Yeah, silly.

 

[Hax]

lmao this was so long ago. i don't even camp anymore.. the amount of money this game offers is too little for it to be worth playing like a complete f*ggot

 

[0Room]

Lol I was wondering what you would have to say about this
Hax you know this game isn't about money

 

[Hax]

this game is about making top tier players quit because they lost to captain falcon

 

[0Room]

Lol so pessimistic
This game is about improvement
And flaunting improvement over other players by beating them

 

[Brookman]

Nah, this game is about making people quit. Just look at my sig.

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