Veril
Frame Savant
So instead of making new little threads every time I find something new I'm just gonna start compiling everything in this thread. Everything not rest related that is. Sing, wavelanding, wavebouncing, etc, this is where it'll be at in the future. 
Table of Contents
I. God DI
II. Advanced Sing
III. Wavebouncing (up later)
IV. Wavelanding (up later)
V. Optimal Controller Configuration
I. GOD DI: Knockback Inversion and other Epic DI
I'm not going to say I discovered GDI. But I'm definitely the only person who's really looked into it. I would say I found it but some a****** from the tactical boards would probably flame me.
Regardless, people have been asking me about it... in ever growing numbers, so in an attempt to clear things up...
God DI ( it'll make your opponent s*** their pants)
-Its awesome.
What is God DI?
-God DI is the term I have used for an advanced form of directional influence that results in total knockback inversion. In other words, instead of going up, you go down. You can in some cases tech the hit, and in others you cannot but it doesn't matter. I'll go into this more later.
GDI can save your a**. If and when you miss a rest or it doesn't KO (and I had a pikachu survive rest at over 100% on Corneria) GDI is a godsend.
GDI vs. Lucas's Up-smash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3_MGqugkuE&feature=channel_page
GDI vs. Zelda's F-smash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GC9x0J2Mw&feature=channel
Are you going to talk about physics now? How does GDI work?
-Yes. GDI utilizes multiple double stick DIs in a specific pattern very quickly and precisely. Or just double stick DIing downish (varies by move) like a madman. The exact mechanics of it are a little confusing but... you basically have to get the final knockback hit with a doublestick downwards DI. Position definitely matters as well, though I don't know exactly why it seems to only work if you moving under the hitbox... eh.
When you GDI if you hit the ground during hitstun, as is seen in the Lucas vid, in which case you can't tech, but the opponent has no followup option. Otherwise you can tech as normal, as seen in the Zelda vid.
Moves that can be (consciously) GDI'd must:
1. Either have multiple hits, cinematic hitlag, or both.
2. They must have some degree of vertical knockback.
3. Either you must be at a certain % or they first hits must have set knockback.
4. If their is a pull effect it must be possible to escape it. This makes some GDI spacing dependent (Zelda's up-smash probably fits this category).
5. You can't remain grounded. This is an absolute requirement. Note... Multihit moves will tap you up.
6. More will be added as I think of stuff
It is unknown whether this could work on any type of throw.
List of moves compatible:
Confirmed, Confirmed but method underdeveloped, theoretically possible, maybe "shrug". Moves that can be escaped in a better way won't be listed. I'll add more I promise
*Jiggs must be airborne at the time of impact
Bowser: F-smash
Captain Falcon: Up smash, Pawnch*, Sweetspotted Knee*
Diddy Kong: better options vs. all of these. That said, F-smash, Up-smash
DK: F-smash*, Up-Smash*
Falco: D-smash*
Fox: D-smash*
Game and Watch: f-smash*, b-air, n-air, Judgment 9
Ganon: Pawnch*
Lucas: Up-smash, d-smash
Pit: F-smash second hit*, Up-Smash, n-air, up-air
-note: the f-smash GDI is confusing... if you get hit by the first hit and are grounded, it knocks you upwards too much for you to GDI. If you get hit by the first and are airborne you can escape without GDI. You only really have to do this if you get hit with the second.
Rob: F-smash*, n-air*
Sheik: F-smash, Up-smash
Zelda: Jab, F-smash, Up-smash, n-air, f-air*, b-air*.
ZSS: f-air, side-b
Other Epic DIs
1. DI to the side and tech into the stage to survive a spike.
2. DI and SDI down after a hit with horizontal knockback if you are getting hit down a slight slope and tech. Snazzy.
3. SDI into rest. uh, I say a lot about that elsewhere.
4. Horizontal knockback inversion. Good vs. diddy's f-smash and Snake's f-tilt. Hard to do on purpose but very useful for surviving powerful hits if you are near the ledge on one end of the stage.
II. Sing: I taught Jigglypuff Fly!
The Science of Sing, a Guide to Wacky nonsense
by Veril (a name you can trust
)
Table of Contents:
1. A Brief History of Sing
2. Introduction: What Makes Sing Special?
A Brief History of Sing (Brawl)
Sing has had a bad rep for some time. Long considered only usable when ledge-canceled, itself a risky and extremely situational tactic, Sing was a move for showing off, nothing more. One player, RhedKing, made the admirable but foolish promise to me that he would find a use for sing. His efforts were commendable, and he did uncover new information about sing that has turned out to be very useful (that it has 3 pulses). That said, his work was rendered all but useless with a sad discovery made by Illinialex.
Sing had the most stupidly useless mechanic EVER. It was impossible to gain a frame advantage if an opponent button mashes until 200+%. I have no way of responding to that other than an unending torrent of profanity, so I'll spare you. Sing seemed to be one of, if not the, worst moves in the game. That brings me to this new and exciting period of Sing's history.
Illianalex found a neat glitch involving sing and the ledge on Corneria. So... I messed around and found a LOT more (my science is great lol). It turns out Sing has some very strange properties when it comes to sweet-spotting the edge. The most well known as of now is the Sing-Cancel variant, Sing-Stepping, whereby sing cancels under the stage and refreshes all of Jigglypuff's jumps. WHAT!? Yeah, anti-gravity ftw. Turns out there's a whole lot more here, and we're only just scratching the surface of what may be a move with fantastic potential.
What Makes Sing Special?
Sing is an extremely complex move. Sing reflects fundamental aspects of the games physics and because of its unique properties it has the most complex and fascinating effects of any move in the game in its interaction with the ledge. In finding new and exciting techniques, I've been posed with that most difficult of questions: why? Why do these things happen? How does Jigglypuff refresh all her jumps without visibly grabbing the edge? How is sing canceling? WTF happened with Illinialex on Corneria?
lol
Sing in many ways acts exactly like a normal jump. It doesn't autosweetspot, the max distance at which you can snap to the edge is if not exactly, pretty much exactly, the same as a normal jump. It doesn't increase the height of your jump. Holding down or to the side will prevent sweetspotting and holding the a-stick in the direction of the ledge will cause you to snap to it. The first interesting thing about sing is that you can't fast fall it. You can't maneuver it at all in fact. And unlike a normal jump, it won't always sweetspot. Most interestingly, when it does snap you to the ledge, sometimes you don't actually grab it. Sometimes sing will snap you to the edge even if you don't jump, at absurd distances.
Clearly there's something going on. My current theory is that Sing's behavior is largely tied to whether it is paired with a jump or not, with an important distinction: there are frames that occur during sing in which it will not sweetspot the edge (current theory). This window is small enough that Sing can sweetspot and snap to the ledge prior to them taking effect, and then cancel the sweetspot during these frames. Maybe this can pass as well, leading to the glitch Alex found. This isn't the reason for the sing-cancel, but it explains some of the even more exotic effects I have witnessed.
Here are the effects I have observed:
1. Is within range and sweetspots normally (TJ on).
2. Is within range and I cancel the sweetspot by holding down or away (you can still sweetspot by letting go)
3. Is out of range and I die.
4. Sweetspots without a jump from extreme range.
5. Cancels and renews all jumps without any apparent motion.
6. Shoots you up past the edge and cancels (I know... what!)
There is another very interesting effect of Sing known as "sing suicide". Its when Sing causes your opponent to slide a good distance wall falling asleep. This can KO them and it looks really cool. This occurs when the sing hitbox intersects with a momentum increasing segment of a move. Examples include.
1. Roll vulnerability frames.
2. The beginning of Bowser's F-smash hitbox.
3. Shield breaker.
4. The cancel frames of a dash attack (I believe that's when this happens at least).
The Post of supreme snazziness.
So you'll have to take a leap of faith in order to accept that it may take me some time to get video proof for an insane feat: I traveled underneath Final Destination, 3 times consecutively, without landing or grabbing the edge.
How?
Sing.
That's right, one of the most useless moves in the game grants Jigglypuff a type of ISJR while offstage on SOME stages. Here's how it works:
Sing will sweetspot the ledge from a stupidly long distance. However, when fully under a lip this process is prevented, and you fall, singing, to an embarrassing death. Now on some of these lips (Final D and Japes are notable) there is a very very specific spot in which you both are and are not sweetspotting the ledge. So if you use sing with the exact right spacing and timing it will be canceled. You won't appear to move at all. BUT you are. Jigglypuff enters a weird quantum state in which she basically exists in two area's at once (well, a few frames of difference maybe...).
Anyway, basically sing is canceled and you get all your jumps back. Thus... infinite jumps offstage, the holy f***ing grail for Jiggs.
Its crazy tough to do on final D, only a little bit easier on Japes. Here's a vid of it being done once. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_upXyxnIaM
Since making that video I've gotten a lot better at it. So I went under the stage, sing canceled, and repeated another 2 times to make my epic journey (before singing my way to an embarrassing death).
V. The Optimal Control Scheme.
While it all comes down to personal preference how you set up your controls, their is an optimal setup in regards to economy of motion, and the use of wavelands, rest interrupts, sing-canceling, and DAC techniques.
This is what I am using and believe to be the best possible configuration.
The criteria were: minimal shifts in hand position, all techniques still possible, best setup for interrupts.
UNCHANGED
A set to Attacks
L set to shield: Your left pointer finger should always be positioned on this button, thus it is the best shield.
B set to Specials
C-stick set to smashes: This is really necessary for aerial control and economy of motion in the air. It is simply easier to keep your hand on the a and c-sticks as opposed to moving to the a-button and shifting the a-stick to use retreating aerials. In addition b-sticking has little benefit to Jigglypuff. It is possible to wavebounce, b-reverse and turnaround without the b-stick, you just have to have the tech skill developed. I can do it, ergo, so can you.
Tap-jump ON: This maximizes economy of motion in the air, since you can keep your thumb on the c-stick while in the air. I like it because I think the motion is more fluid, but really, there is no TRUE and UNAVOIDABLE downside to tap-jump.
Z-set to grabs: This lets you DACUS as well as use the pivot boost-grab. It really isn't that hard to DACUS that you need to set this to attacks.
Y set to Jumps: Its easier to short-hop with Jump buttons that with the a-stick, also, its best for rising d-airs.
ALTERED CONTROLS
R set to specials: This removes the need to shift your thumb off the c-stick while airborne. More importantly it is almost essential to have the most possible time to input SDI for interrupts. Not needing to shift to the b-button is really important and necessary to interrupt moves like Marth's forward-b (see Junk's comments in the Marth matchup discussion, this is my answer to that).
X-set to grab: On the ground you're using smash moves less so its easiest this way. Also, I find it makes pivot grabbing easier.
Again, I'm not saying you've gotta change your scheme. I've just adopted the R as special. That said I really think this is best.
Table of Contents
I. God DI
II. Advanced Sing
III. Wavebouncing (up later)
IV. Wavelanding (up later)
V. Optimal Controller Configuration
I. GOD DI: Knockback Inversion and other Epic DI
I'm not going to say I discovered GDI. But I'm definitely the only person who's really looked into it. I would say I found it but some a****** from the tactical boards would probably flame me.
Regardless, people have been asking me about it... in ever growing numbers, so in an attempt to clear things up...
God DI ( it'll make your opponent s*** their pants)
-Its awesome.
What is God DI?
-God DI is the term I have used for an advanced form of directional influence that results in total knockback inversion. In other words, instead of going up, you go down. You can in some cases tech the hit, and in others you cannot but it doesn't matter. I'll go into this more later.
GDI can save your a**. If and when you miss a rest or it doesn't KO (and I had a pikachu survive rest at over 100% on Corneria) GDI is a godsend.
GDI vs. Lucas's Up-smash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3_MGqugkuE&feature=channel_page
GDI vs. Zelda's F-smash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GC9x0J2Mw&feature=channel
Are you going to talk about physics now? How does GDI work?
-Yes. GDI utilizes multiple double stick DIs in a specific pattern very quickly and precisely. Or just double stick DIing downish (varies by move) like a madman. The exact mechanics of it are a little confusing but... you basically have to get the final knockback hit with a doublestick downwards DI. Position definitely matters as well, though I don't know exactly why it seems to only work if you moving under the hitbox... eh.
When you GDI if you hit the ground during hitstun, as is seen in the Lucas vid, in which case you can't tech, but the opponent has no followup option. Otherwise you can tech as normal, as seen in the Zelda vid.
Moves that can be (consciously) GDI'd must:
1. Either have multiple hits, cinematic hitlag, or both.
2. They must have some degree of vertical knockback.
3. Either you must be at a certain % or they first hits must have set knockback.
4. If their is a pull effect it must be possible to escape it. This makes some GDI spacing dependent (Zelda's up-smash probably fits this category).
5. You can't remain grounded. This is an absolute requirement. Note... Multihit moves will tap you up.
6. More will be added as I think of stuff
It is unknown whether this could work on any type of throw.
List of moves compatible:
Confirmed, Confirmed but method underdeveloped, theoretically possible, maybe "shrug". Moves that can be escaped in a better way won't be listed. I'll add more I promise
*Jiggs must be airborne at the time of impact
Bowser: F-smash
Captain Falcon: Up smash, Pawnch*, Sweetspotted Knee*
Diddy Kong: better options vs. all of these. That said, F-smash, Up-smash
DK: F-smash*, Up-Smash*
Falco: D-smash*
Fox: D-smash*
Game and Watch: f-smash*, b-air, n-air, Judgment 9
Ganon: Pawnch*
Lucas: Up-smash, d-smash
Pit: F-smash second hit*, Up-Smash, n-air, up-air
-note: the f-smash GDI is confusing... if you get hit by the first hit and are grounded, it knocks you upwards too much for you to GDI. If you get hit by the first and are airborne you can escape without GDI. You only really have to do this if you get hit with the second.
Rob: F-smash*, n-air*
Sheik: F-smash, Up-smash
Zelda: Jab, F-smash, Up-smash, n-air, f-air*, b-air*.
ZSS: f-air, side-b
Other Epic DIs
1. DI to the side and tech into the stage to survive a spike.
2. DI and SDI down after a hit with horizontal knockback if you are getting hit down a slight slope and tech. Snazzy.
3. SDI into rest. uh, I say a lot about that elsewhere.
4. Horizontal knockback inversion. Good vs. diddy's f-smash and Snake's f-tilt. Hard to do on purpose but very useful for surviving powerful hits if you are near the ledge on one end of the stage.
II. Sing: I taught Jigglypuff Fly!
The Science of Sing, a Guide to Wacky nonsense
by Veril (a name you can trust
)Table of Contents:
1. A Brief History of Sing
2. Introduction: What Makes Sing Special?
A Brief History of Sing (Brawl)
Sing has had a bad rep for some time. Long considered only usable when ledge-canceled, itself a risky and extremely situational tactic, Sing was a move for showing off, nothing more. One player, RhedKing, made the admirable but foolish promise to me that he would find a use for sing. His efforts were commendable, and he did uncover new information about sing that has turned out to be very useful (that it has 3 pulses). That said, his work was rendered all but useless with a sad discovery made by Illinialex.
Sing had the most stupidly useless mechanic EVER. It was impossible to gain a frame advantage if an opponent button mashes until 200+%. I have no way of responding to that other than an unending torrent of profanity, so I'll spare you. Sing seemed to be one of, if not the, worst moves in the game. That brings me to this new and exciting period of Sing's history.
Illianalex found a neat glitch involving sing and the ledge on Corneria. So... I messed around and found a LOT more (my science is great lol). It turns out Sing has some very strange properties when it comes to sweet-spotting the edge. The most well known as of now is the Sing-Cancel variant, Sing-Stepping, whereby sing cancels under the stage and refreshes all of Jigglypuff's jumps. WHAT!? Yeah, anti-gravity ftw. Turns out there's a whole lot more here, and we're only just scratching the surface of what may be a move with fantastic potential.
What Makes Sing Special?
Sing is an extremely complex move. Sing reflects fundamental aspects of the games physics and because of its unique properties it has the most complex and fascinating effects of any move in the game in its interaction with the ledge. In finding new and exciting techniques, I've been posed with that most difficult of questions: why? Why do these things happen? How does Jigglypuff refresh all her jumps without visibly grabbing the edge? How is sing canceling? WTF happened with Illinialex on Corneria?
lol
Sing in many ways acts exactly like a normal jump. It doesn't autosweetspot, the max distance at which you can snap to the edge is if not exactly, pretty much exactly, the same as a normal jump. It doesn't increase the height of your jump. Holding down or to the side will prevent sweetspotting and holding the a-stick in the direction of the ledge will cause you to snap to it. The first interesting thing about sing is that you can't fast fall it. You can't maneuver it at all in fact. And unlike a normal jump, it won't always sweetspot. Most interestingly, when it does snap you to the ledge, sometimes you don't actually grab it. Sometimes sing will snap you to the edge even if you don't jump, at absurd distances.
Clearly there's something going on. My current theory is that Sing's behavior is largely tied to whether it is paired with a jump or not, with an important distinction: there are frames that occur during sing in which it will not sweetspot the edge (current theory). This window is small enough that Sing can sweetspot and snap to the ledge prior to them taking effect, and then cancel the sweetspot during these frames. Maybe this can pass as well, leading to the glitch Alex found. This isn't the reason for the sing-cancel, but it explains some of the even more exotic effects I have witnessed.
Here are the effects I have observed:
1. Is within range and sweetspots normally (TJ on).
2. Is within range and I cancel the sweetspot by holding down or away (you can still sweetspot by letting go)
3. Is out of range and I die.
4. Sweetspots without a jump from extreme range.
5. Cancels and renews all jumps without any apparent motion.
6. Shoots you up past the edge and cancels (I know... what!)
There is another very interesting effect of Sing known as "sing suicide". Its when Sing causes your opponent to slide a good distance wall falling asleep. This can KO them and it looks really cool. This occurs when the sing hitbox intersects with a momentum increasing segment of a move. Examples include.
1. Roll vulnerability frames.
2. The beginning of Bowser's F-smash hitbox.
3. Shield breaker.
4. The cancel frames of a dash attack (I believe that's when this happens at least).
The Post of supreme snazziness.
So you'll have to take a leap of faith in order to accept that it may take me some time to get video proof for an insane feat: I traveled underneath Final Destination, 3 times consecutively, without landing or grabbing the edge.
How?
Sing.
That's right, one of the most useless moves in the game grants Jigglypuff a type of ISJR while offstage on SOME stages. Here's how it works:
Sing will sweetspot the ledge from a stupidly long distance. However, when fully under a lip this process is prevented, and you fall, singing, to an embarrassing death. Now on some of these lips (Final D and Japes are notable) there is a very very specific spot in which you both are and are not sweetspotting the ledge. So if you use sing with the exact right spacing and timing it will be canceled. You won't appear to move at all. BUT you are. Jigglypuff enters a weird quantum state in which she basically exists in two area's at once (well, a few frames of difference maybe...).
Anyway, basically sing is canceled and you get all your jumps back. Thus... infinite jumps offstage, the holy f***ing grail for Jiggs.
Its crazy tough to do on final D, only a little bit easier on Japes. Here's a vid of it being done once. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_upXyxnIaM
Since making that video I've gotten a lot better at it. So I went under the stage, sing canceled, and repeated another 2 times to make my epic journey (before singing my way to an embarrassing death).
V. The Optimal Control Scheme.
While it all comes down to personal preference how you set up your controls, their is an optimal setup in regards to economy of motion, and the use of wavelands, rest interrupts, sing-canceling, and DAC techniques.
This is what I am using and believe to be the best possible configuration.
The criteria were: minimal shifts in hand position, all techniques still possible, best setup for interrupts.
UNCHANGED
A set to Attacks
L set to shield: Your left pointer finger should always be positioned on this button, thus it is the best shield.
B set to Specials
C-stick set to smashes: This is really necessary for aerial control and economy of motion in the air. It is simply easier to keep your hand on the a and c-sticks as opposed to moving to the a-button and shifting the a-stick to use retreating aerials. In addition b-sticking has little benefit to Jigglypuff. It is possible to wavebounce, b-reverse and turnaround without the b-stick, you just have to have the tech skill developed. I can do it, ergo, so can you.
Tap-jump ON: This maximizes economy of motion in the air, since you can keep your thumb on the c-stick while in the air. I like it because I think the motion is more fluid, but really, there is no TRUE and UNAVOIDABLE downside to tap-jump.
Z-set to grabs: This lets you DACUS as well as use the pivot boost-grab. It really isn't that hard to DACUS that you need to set this to attacks.
Y set to Jumps: Its easier to short-hop with Jump buttons that with the a-stick, also, its best for rising d-airs.
ALTERED CONTROLS
R set to specials: This removes the need to shift your thumb off the c-stick while airborne. More importantly it is almost essential to have the most possible time to input SDI for interrupts. Not needing to shift to the b-button is really important and necessary to interrupt moves like Marth's forward-b (see Junk's comments in the Marth matchup discussion, this is my answer to that).
X-set to grab: On the ground you're using smash moves less so its easiest this way. Also, I find it makes pivot grabbing easier.
Again, I'm not saying you've gotta change your scheme. I've just adopted the R as special. That said I really think this is best.
I don't drink coffee any more, it's bad for my teeth.