Social C. Falcon Social

[Fortress | Sveet]

if u get up-throw up-smashed at 0% just DI away and don't tech in place because most foxes love to up-smash twice

if they know you won't tech in place though then maybe u wanna tech in place

 

[-ACE-]

For moves that hit you very horizontal and in some cases for moves that aren't really, assuming there is enough space DI-ing DOWN and slightly INSIDE(?) with SMASH DI can make u hit the stage, where you then tech towards the stage to survive.

You mean teching on the floor? you want to make sure you don't SDI in that case or it won't let you tech.

Otherwise (unless i misunderstood), perfect post. I've tried explaining pretty much in the exact concepts in the Ganon boards several times over the years lol. Knowing DI against falcon is so tricky lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCTvgh5mZ8E#t=5m19s pretty sure the only thing that could have cause kage to live here would be to DI the first knee with ****ty survival DI (straight up or up and VERY slightly out) talk about a fine line between death from first knee and guaranteeing a combo.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

You mean teching on the floor? you want to make sure you don't SDI in that case or it won't let you tech.

?? I know SDI isn't allowed to HELP you cling to the floor, but I never thought that it actually PREVENTS you from teching the floor. Unless you are frame-precise and can tilt the Control Stick ONLY on the first frame of hitstun to DI and ASDI, you're going to end up with a few frames of SDI, and if you're right about SDI preventing techs on the floor, then teching on the floor would be practically impossible.

EDIT: Also, I have decided that the best way to get/regain long-term momentum in Falcon dittos ("long-term momentum" as in, psychologically being "on a roll") is to finish one of their stocks in a gay fashion and taunt. Even if you are two stocks behind and just now utilted or edgehogged their first stock which they survived to like, over 140%, you can taunt and then immediately start wrecking them. For some reason, they always get super eager to "show you their moves" and start attacking, so you can start dash-dance/nair camping them. Or at least, this has worked for me against the last 4 or so Falcons that I have dittoed.

Also, whoever said to edgeguard with knees is absolutely correct (utilt works, like, barely 30% of the time against decent players). I just randomly decided to go for it and was surprised that it seriously works so well, like, every time. Although, I prefer strong-kneeing their upB when they recover high and weak-kneeing their second jump when they go low. Occasionally, if I knock them off then grab the ledge and it looks like they can upB far enough onto the stage to avoid a ledgehop knee, I can also fake them out with ledgehop onto stage -> waveland back to ledgegrab again because they always pull back and go for the ledge when they see the ledgehop onto the stage, and they either get edgehogged or react at the last second and land on the stage at the perfect distance for reverse ledgehop knee ^_^

 

[flantasticflan]

?? I know SDI isn't allowed to HELP you cling to the floor, but I never thought that it actually PREVENTS you from teching the floor. Unless you are frame-precise and can tilt the Control Stick ONLY on the first frame of hitstun to DI and ASDI, you're going to end up with a few frames of SDI, and if you're right about SDI preventing techs on the floor, then teching on the floor would be practically impossible.

EDIT: Also, I have decided that the best way to get/regain long-term momentum in Falcon dittos ("long-term momentum" as in, psychologically being "on a roll") is to finish one of their stocks in a gay fashion and taunt. Even if you are two stocks behind and just now utilted or edgehogged their first stock which they survived to like, over 140%, you can taunt and then immediately start wrecking them. For some reason, they always get super eager to "show you their moves" and start attacking, so you can start dash-dance/nair camping them. Or at least, this has worked for me against the last 4 or so Falcons that I have dittoed.

Also, whoever said to edgeguard with knees is absolutely correct (utilt works, like, barely 30% of the time against decent players). I just randomly decided to go for it and was surprised that it seriously works so well, like, every time. Although, I prefer strong-kneeing their upB when they recover high and weak-kneeing their second jump when they go low. Occasionally, if I knock them off then grab the ledge and it looks like they can upB far enough onto the stage to avoid a ledgehop knee, I can also fake them out with ledgehop onto stage -> waveland back to ledgegrab again because they always pull back and go for the ledge when they see the ledgehop onto the stage, and they either get edgehogged or react at the last second and land on the stage at the perfect distance for reverse ledgehop knee ^_^

You should also taunt on Randall to bait out a SD

 

[Tee ay eye]

smash DI won't affect your ability to tech on the ground unless you SDI up

the reason that you can't use SDI to tech onto the ground is because SDI takes place during hitlag (before you get sent flying anywhere from the attack), so there isn't anywhere to go if you SDI down (cuz you can't SDI under the ground), but if you SDI anywhere else, it'll still work.

you use ASDI to tech on the ground because it takes place during the first frame of knockback (and hitstun), during which time you're allowed to tech.

 

[ShrieK1295]

Occasionally, if I knock them off then grab the ledge and it looks like they can upB far enough onto the stage to avoid a ledgehop knee, I can also fake them out with ledgehop onto stage -> waveland back to ledgegrab again because they always pull back and go for the ledge when they see the ledgehop onto the stage

This is a good situation to reverse UAir from the ledge because it's basically impossible to miss.

 

[lanabo]

is it possible to get a dthrow/uthrow CG vs roy at low percents if they DI the throw directly away or down and away? i was experimenting with a friend earlier today and i couldn't get a regrab on Roy at low percents under those conditions.

also, does anyone have experience/tips with the roy v falcon matchup? i've been playing it with a friend and i've been having a really hard time with it, especially vs roy's CC->dtilt and recovering vs him.

 

[flantasticflan]

You gotta stay away from the hilt of his sword. I would just treat him as a heavy marth but not having to worry about tippers

 

[FerrishTheFish]

also, does anyone have experience/tips with the roy v falcon matchup? i've been playing it with a friend and i've been having a really hard time with it, especially vs roy's CC->dtilt and recovering vs him.

I do have some experience in the MU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTo9Nx6GtQY
(I may track down some games with my brother's Roy, which is about as good as this guy's Roy.)

You probably don't want to try to copy exactly what I do since I'm not that great, but I pretty much view Roy like ... as if they made Sheik heavier and fall faster and then took away everything that I hate about Sheik. So yeah, I treat Roy like a heavy Sheik who doesn't have needles, tilts, chaingrabs, range, low-lag, or priority. I feel like treating Roy like a heavy Marth is kind of a mistake because there's so much **** you can do to Roy and get away with, treating him like a heavy Marth sans tippers almost seems like giving him too much credit. (A heavy Marth would still have decent recovery and decent edgeguarding, for example)

You NEVER have to get hit by CC -> dtilt. (You should tell yourself this even if it isn't 100% true.) Instead of approaching with nairs, you can camp Roy like there's no tomorrow and come in with stomps, grabs, and knees which are all harder to CC.

If he hits you with his upB, DI it upwards so you can jump before you land on the ground and maybe punish.

 

[lanabo]

thanks, i definitely see what i need to do differently. i'll try to upload some matches with my adjustments when i play my friend's roy again.

 

[Divinokage]

You mean teching on the floor? you want to make sure you don't SDI in that case or it won't let you tech.

Otherwise (unless i misunderstood), perfect post. I've tried explaining pretty much in the exact concepts in the Ganon boards several times over the years lol. Knowing DI against falcon is so tricky lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCTvgh5mZ8E#t=5m19s pretty sure the only thing that could have cause kage to live here would be to DI the first knee with ****ty survival DI (straight up or up and VERY slightly out) talk about a fine line between death from first knee and guaranteeing a combo.

Hmm.. with at that % I think a slight DI away upwards would have worked better... maybe even straight up would have prevented a combo. Because there are tons of angles you can take not just 45 degree angles on your controller.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

thanks, i definitely see what i need to do differently. i'll try to upload some matches with my adjustments when i play my friend's roy again.

Definitely do that, it'll be a lot easier for us to understand your strengths and weaknesses (in the MU or in general).

Another thing you can try is just CCing everything he does, because pretty much only his sweetspotted fsmash can break your CC. I didn't do it in the match I linked because I'm not really good at punishing people out of CC, but that is definitely one of Roy's fatal flaws.

EDIT: I don't think I specifically mentioned this in my last post, but recovering high against Roy is better almost every time. A lot of characters can punish Falcon's high recovery because it has a predictable trajectory, but Roy is not one of those characters. If he can't get your high recovery with fsmash or neutral B, you're home free because you can live all his aerials up to really high %s with survival-DI with the possible exception of dair-spike or usmash-spike (which are both really hard to land for Roy). Recovering low gives him a little more time to set up an edgeguarding move or just edgehog.

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

if u get up-throw up-smashed at 0% just DI away and don't tech in place because most foxes love to up-smash twice

are you serious?
Fox cannot uthrow usmash falcon at 0%. It doesn't work. They must shine jc usmash or waveshine ( i think jab works too )

s2j how do you not know this
it's a free tech->grab punish if fox tries to pull that at 0%

 

[Winston]

^ ... huh?

 

[Deleted member]

are you serious?
Fox cannot uthrow usmash falcon at 0%. It doesn't work. They must shine jc usmash or waveshine ( i think jab works too )

s2j how do you not know this
it's a free tech->grab punish if fox tries to pull that at 0%

first of all stop talking to me like a ****. Show some respect to a superior being you ****ken infidel

2ndly, MY B i gave some pretty 1 star advice last few posts

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

S2J you need to get a new mbr crush. How many times do I have to reject you before you get the message

 

[Deleted member]

it's funny you say the MBR

theres no relation to the melee back room besides the fact that it is mostly, but not fully a cesspool of psuedo-intellectuals or wanna-be 'pros' like yourself. So I can't help but hate on some of the people there.

The fact that you guys are pretty much an elitist group (with many wannabes/ people who plain suck) that hide their posts from the general smash public is just strange.

however,
You, in particular, have almost always succeeded in posting like a ***. ur simply one of the many I do not like at all.

Kage don't even respond to S2J thats all he wants. Just ignore them and be the warrior you are. Thats what we love about you!!!!!!!!!!!

don't call me a ****** when all you do is slurp kage's ****. This post used to be my signature because it was so ****ing homosexual

 

[FerrishTheFish]

LOL @ s2j burninating the countryside and all the peasants, too.

 

[big sleep]

forreal i never got why the backroom allows a bunch of mediocre players in it.... shouldn't all the members be really skilled?

 

[S l o X]

it probably shouldn't exist or the existing threads should be shown to everyone or they should be stricter about who's in it.

 

[unknown522]

it's funny you say the MBR

theres no relation to the melee back room besides the fact that it is mostly, but not fully a cesspool of psuedo-intellectuals or wanna-be 'pros' like yourself. So I can't help but hate on some of the people there.

The fact that you guys are pretty much an elitist group (with many wannabes/ people who plain suck) that hide their posts from the general smash public is just strange.

however,
You, in particular, have almost always succeeded in posting like a ****. ur simply one of the many I do not like at all.




don't call me a ******* when all you do is slurp kage's dik. This post used to be my signature because it was so ****ing homosexual

kinda got a point there. Can't even lie.

Too bad it's too long to sig

 

[Morin0]

I think the people that run the MBR said that people don't necessarily have to be good in Melee to get in (the recent wave of MBR members that is). They just have to have a good understanding of the game.

Never really understood the point of the backroom and even moreso when it's private, lol.

 

[big sleep]

stupid nerdz


(except the guys who ****)

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I think you have to either be a really good player or have made a "significant contribution to the metagame." Makes me wonder why they aren't begging me, DownToFish, to join since I am the titular inventor of the most awesome, widely-used, relevant, technically-advanced, and safest Link tactic in existence that is not in any way, shape, or form dependent on MU or stage: the DOWN FISHIN'! (see the Link Techniques Thread for more details)

But seriously, I do think they should only let in awesome players who are interested in serving the community. Right now, it's more like the Melee Under-The-Table than anything, especially because you can't really get kicked out once you're in. TRANSPARENCY ISSUES, MAN!

 

[lanabo]

EDIT: I don't think I specifically mentioned this in my last post, but recovering high against Roy is better almost every time. A lot of characters can punish Falcon's high recovery because it has a predictable trajectory, but Roy is not one of those characters. If he can't get your high recovery with fsmash or neutral B, you're home free because you can live all his aerials up to really high %s with survival-DI with the possible exception of dair-spike or usmash-spike (which are both really hard to land for Roy). Recovering low gives him a little more time to set up an edgeguarding move or just edgehog.

yea this is one of the key observations i made watching ur vids. i always tried to sweetspot from below the ledge and got owned by fsmash/neutralB, roy's options for defending high recoveries are pretty limited.

 

[ViperGold42]

sveet has no friends because he attends a ****ed up, piece of ****, *******, bully populated, running over band people, ****hole school......

 

[FerrishTheFish]

sveet has no friends because he attends a ****ed up, piece of ****, *******, bully populated, running over band people, ****hole school......

I have no idea what you just said, but what I DO know is that you have made 3x more posts that me in 1/7th the time, making you approximately 21x more efficient at posting than me--and your screen name isn't even teh_spamerer! TEACH ME YOUR SECRETS!

 

[ViperGold42]

I have no idea what you just said, but what I DO know is that you have made 3x more posts that me in 1/7th the time, making you approximately 21x more efficient at posting than me--and your screen name isn't even teh_spamerer! TEACH ME YOUR SECRETS!

he attends Northern Illinois (NIU) Those douchebags of the Mid-American Conference.

 

[flantasticflan]

S2j for melee back room!

 

[FerrishTheFish]

S2J for the Unity Ruleset Committee!!

 

[Twinkles]

Finally, the community will be able to decide whether or not to ban meta knight

 

[Deleted member]

sveet has no friends because he attends a ****ed up, piece of ****, *******, bully populated, running over band people, ****hole school......

LMAO now i feel bad

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

it's funny you say the MBR

theres no relation to the melee back room besides the fact that it is mostly, but not fully a cesspool of psuedo-intellectuals or wanna-be 'pros' like yourself. So I can't help but hate on some of the people there.

The fact that you guys are pretty much an elitist group (with many wannabes/ people who plain suck) that hide their posts from the general smash public is just strange.

however,
You, in particular, have almost always succeeded in posting like a ***. ur simply one of the many I do not like at all.

Its strange that you are criticizing me with transparency. Couldn't find something better? You were even invited into the discussion and all you did was cuss. Can't you do something more productive?

don't call me a ****** when all you do is slurp kage's ****. This post used to be my signature because it was so ****ing homosexual

he attends Northern Illinois (NIU) Those douchebags of the Mid-American Conference.

Woah I have my very own stalker now! I'm gonna wake up my parents and let them know i'm famous! FACEBOOK STATUS LEVEL

 

[Deleted member]

Its strange that you are criticizing me with transparency. Couldn't find something better? You were even invited into the discussion and all you did was cuss. Can't you do something more productive?

Woah I have my very own stalker now! I'm gonna wake up my parents and let them know i'm famous! FACEBOOK STATUS LEVEL

all i said were 2 lines. You say this like I wasted hours of my time when I just pop into skype and type "**** yall"

oh and congrats being in the MBR!! guess you dont have to be ACTUALLY GOOD

 

[ViperGold42]

"Seriously, dont care. I go to NIU because they have a great CIS program, not because they have a football team or whatever. All the sports rivalry stuff disinterests me."

when you tell someone, yeah it sticks **** NIU. GO ROCKETS.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

all i said were 2 lines. You say this like I wasted hours of my time when I just pop into skype and type "**** yall"

oh and congrats being in the MBR!! guess you dont have to be ACTUALLY GOOD

Oh **** the skill call out! Word on the street is that no matter how much of an ignorant ******* you are, as long as you can dair edgecancel uair and play like a ***** in an old video game you are going to live a happy life.


Anyways, you changed the title so I guess you got the message. Have a nice day, thanks for reminding me about the ignore feature

 

[Krynxe]

Please, calm ourselves. Drama just really isn't necessary.

 

[It's me Q]

Oh **** the skill call out! Word on the street is that no matter how much of an ignorant ******* you are, as long as you can dair edgecancel uair and play like a ***** in an old video game you are going to live a happy life.

Wow look what you just posted

 

[Deleted member]

Oh **** the skill call out! Word on the street is that no matter how much of an ignorant ******* you are, as long as you can dair edgecancel uair and play like a ***** in an old video game you are going to live a happy life.


Anyways, you changed the title so I guess you got the message. Have a nice day, thanks for reminding me about the ignore feature

how am i ignorant, and why should the melee back room decide about the tier list/ ruleset if they have people like u

 

[-ACE-]

As long as people like N00breon are around the MBR will be just fine.