Social Burn With Passion!! -- Incineroar General Discussion (Formerly the Support Thread)

meleebrawler · Nov 30, 2018

Poxnixles said:
Does Ganon's UpB not count as one? I mean, it's not very viable to use that way, but...

Man I forgot that move existed, goes to show how useless it was as an attack lol. It's much scarier now, though. You don't wanna play around on platforms for too long above him.

Dε√ilj∦o · Nov 30, 2018

Dε√ilj∦o said:
Incineroar is not bottom 5 lmao. He's absolutely terrifying, despite his shortcomings.

Here's, finally, some GOOD gameplay in GOOD quality of Incineroar. It's against Level 9 CPUs (which are actually relentless in this game and look fun to playagainst for once), but it's still very good gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sUBX6vM2eI

What I found the most interesting in this footage is at 1:46. Forward tilt kills Corrin at 87% near the ledge. I know Incineroar had some rage, but even in some other gameplay I've seen agaist Shulk I believe, even at around 50% this move had powerful knockback, AND it appears to be a semi-spike. This move is fast, deadly, and will probably be the A attack to go for for kills instead of our Smash attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mvf89YJVgs

At 22 seconds. Darkest Lariat actually has multiple hitboxes. That's HUGE. Bayonetta's Bat WIthin activated, yet she still got hit afterwards. Not to mention this move does 20%, and has transcendant priority. Incredible move.
Neutral air is very good, I like this move. Up tilt is nice, Up air is a good juggling tool, and both seem to combo out of Down Throw.

Yeah, this character doesn't look bottom 5 to me. Cross Chop isnt as bad as people make it out to be seriously you can even cross chop offstage after a jump and make it back and it spikes opponents, and it's good for recovering high and has armor, holy **** this character is absolutely terrifying and has so many good options, Darkest Lariat is a frame 5, frame FIVE move with priority, invincibility on startup and kills, he has decent frame data, 3 kill throws, Back throw is the new strongest Backthrow in the game, 1 combo throw in down throw, down tilt is an incredible combo starter or confirm for kills like down throw+Lariat or Down throw+Cross chop, a powerful command grab with long reach, good aerials, Revenge is broken, his forward tilt is broken for no reason, literally the only thing balancing out Incineroar's ridiculous kill power and damage output is its abyssmal mobility which isnt THAT big of a deal considering how small stages are in Ultimate like FD, I had worries too when he was announced because evey single person who played him and we got footage of was garbage so far, but seeing good footage like this gives me huge hopes for him, and even FATALITY for crying out loud wants to pick up this character and oh my god if he does Incineroar will have incredible tournament representation and will be hype as **** to watch.
Also that Wrestling belt victory screen is top tier.

and keep an eye on this guy, he's testing Incineroar and you can see some stuff I talked about here: https://twitter.com/piuzera_

Dropping this here if you guys want to finally see good Incineroar gameplay, granted its against CPUs.

RandysRage · Nov 30, 2018

Incineroar's back throw is now officially the strongest of its kind

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Now boarding, next stop: Suplex City

meleebrawler · Nov 30, 2018

RandysRage said:
Incineroar's back throw is now officially the strongest of its kind

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Now boarding, next stop: Suplex City

What's that green highlighting on Incineroar's back throw? Collateral hits?

Spinosaurus · Nov 30, 2018

meleebrawler said:
What's that green highlighting on Incineroar's back throw? Collateral hits?

Invincibility. All of Incineroar's throws besides dthrow are invincible, if you needed any more reason to think this character is geared for doubles haha.

meleebrawler · Nov 30, 2018

Spinosaurus said:
Invincibility. All of Incineroar's throws besides dthrow are invincible, if you needed any more reason to think this character is geared for doubles haha.

I thought blue was invincibility, or is that treated separately from intangibility?

Spinosaurus · Nov 30, 2018

meleebrawler said:
I thought blue was invincibility, or is that treated separately from intangibility?

I beeeelieve they are treated separately, yeah. I think you're right, green is intangibility, which is even better.

meleebrawler · Dec 1, 2018

Spinosaurus said:
I beeeelieve they are treated separately, yeah. I think you're right, green is intangibility, which is even better.

No, I'm pretty sure blue is. That's the color you see when fighters use dodges of any kind, and that's intangibility for sure.

TheSaladbar13 · Dec 1, 2018

So um... incineroar’s fsmash is kinda nuts

https://youtu.be/8w0edcdfhMQ

MacDaddyNook · Dec 1, 2018

TheSaladbar13 said:
So um... incineroar’s fsmash is kinda nuts

https://youtu.be/8w0edcdfhMQ

Holy Cow, it did it just KO mid-stage at only 47%?

Goodstyle_4 · Dec 1, 2018

There's more craziness:

https://youtu.be/nRFRFU9ELvI?t=162

Move is stupidly strong.

Deleted member · Dec 1, 2018

MacDaddyNook said:
Holy Cow, it did it just KO mid-stage at only 47%?

With only Rage boost.

MacDaddyNook · Dec 1, 2018

Even with the underwhelming recovery (though seeing it in action more, it doesn't look as bad), Incineroar is shaping up to be a pretty good fighter after all. Just gotta really focus on staying away from off-stage.

GoldenYuiitusin said:
With only Rage boost.

Yeah, I didn't take Rage into account. Still, imagine what it would do with a Revenge boost as well.

Deleted member · Dec 1, 2018

Knew there was hope for Incineroar, glad to see it'll do well.

Spinosaurus · Dec 2, 2018

The best thing about Incineroar's fsmash is that I still think it's pretty low on Incineroar's list of ridiculous moves.

MaximTomato · Dec 2, 2018

Did anyone see Incineroar's Alolan Whip move do 55% to Greninja with Revenge. His power his insane! -> https://youtu.be/nRFRFU9ELvI?t=33

Flik · Dec 2, 2018

His FSmash looks like a Gamengiri.

MaximTomato said:
Did anyone see Incineroar's Alolan Whip move do 55% to Greninja with Revenge. His power his insane! -> https://youtu.be/nRFRFU9ELvI?t=33

LARIATOOOOOOO!!!!

Luigifan18 · Dec 2, 2018

TheSaladbar13 said:
So um... incineroar’s fsmash is kinda nuts

https://youtu.be/8w0edcdfhMQ

MaximTomato said:
Did anyone see Incineroar's Alolan Whip move do 55% to Greninja with Revenge. His power his insane! -> https://youtu.be/nRFRFU9ELvI?t=33

I saw in the Incineroar vs. Daisy match that a botched Alolan Whip does about 5% damage to both Incineroar and the opponent in 1v1, so it doesn't really put Incineroar at a disadvantage percentage-wise. It'd be a pity to waste a Revenge boost on such a weak attack, though.

RandysRage · Dec 2, 2018

MaximTomato said:
Did anyone see Incineroar's Alolan Whip move do 55% to Greninja with Revenge. His power his insane! -> https://youtu.be/nRFRFU9ELvI?t=33

His damage output is the most explosive I've ever seen in a heavyweight.

Thank Arceus for his poor speed; if he were much faster he might just be busted with all the tools he has it his disposal.

Goodstyle_4 · Dec 2, 2018

I've seen the FSmash do much worse damage and knock back at another point a while back. It seems like the move has a sweet spot for that insane kill power.

Venks · Dec 2, 2018

Anyone know if Incineroar's side special has super armor? Some friends of mine were saying that is the case, but I can't find any footage of him getting hit while using the move.

Whitephoenixace · Dec 2, 2018

Venks said:
Anyone know if Incineroar's side special has super armor? Some friends of mine were saying that is the case, but I can't find any footage of him getting hit while using the move.

Based on what they say in the frame data thread it does. From what I have seen of it in the many vids ive watched of it, it doesnt seem to be active near the end if he doesnt reach his opponent at the end of the dash

GHNeko · Dec 2, 2018

hi guys ill be joining you all from here on out thanks.

MaximTomato · Dec 2, 2018

Venks said:
Anyone know if Incineroar's side special has super armor? Some friends of mine were saying that is the case, but I can't find any footage of him getting hit while using the move.

It appears that it does. It's hard to see in this video because of the quality but doable, also I would slow it down to .25 speed on youtube so you could see it better. While he is using his side special on cloud, young link hits Incineroar as his percent goes from 25% to 31% but it doesn't interrupt the move. https://youtu.be/OI0iUWGHBUU?t=17

CrocoLoco · Dec 2, 2018

Hello
What's up?
The discord invitation has expired, and i really wanna join the server and share some stuff with ya

Browny · Dec 4, 2018

Incineroar being bad is a circlejerk meme, this character has a ton of potential and its because of his fear factor.

I've seen many videos of people playing him and they are making HUGE mistakes.

1) They aren't using revenge against projectiles. People say incineroar is slow and can be camped out, so they just willingly take all these projectile hits for no reason? Every projectile sent your way is a free revenge boost.

2) They aren't using revenge, at all. This move is busted good, not using it is bad play and makes the character look bad. Yes its risky, but Incineroar weighs a lot, he can take the risks. Think of it this way, if you watched a fox who never used blasters, ever, and they lost and called fox bad, you would rightfully call them out for being bad and deliberately playing worse. This is the same with Incineroar. He has an incredibly good move that defines him. Choosing to not use it, is choosing to nerf yourself. Don't be mad if you don't use good attacks and lose, that's on you.

3) They use nair to approach. This is inexcusably bad play, so many people keep doing this. You wouldn't approach with nair with pikachu, don't approach with nair with Incineroar.

4) They aren't recovering high. Side b, jump, cross chop to recover high gives Incineroar maximum recovery distance and its not the easiest thing to edgeguard because of how fast it is. Mix it up a bit but for the love of god, stop recovering low every time, its too predictable.

The fear factor though is the big thing. So few smash players fully appreciate how certain moves can force the enemy to play differently and make stupid mistakes. The greatest examples are full charge blast moves. When you have one ready, the enemy is terrified to drop unsafe moves out and it will seriously change their approach. Think of Marth, he can happily throw out fairs all day long without a care in the world to space you out, pressure and approach you and it is extremely safe. When you have a full charge attack, he no longer has that safety. Now he has to use his MUCH worse options to deal with you, making the matchup easier.

Incineroar does this in a new fashion thanks to his unique revenge. The first step is making the opponent afraid of triggering revenge. They aren't going to throw out safe, weak spacing moves or projectiles constantly like they used to because it will be extremely easy to activate revenge. So now they have to resort to playing much more carefully, therefore you have nerfed them. The second step of course is once you have the revenge. Stay lightly out of their range, make them terrified of a whiff because if they do, a sideb is coming their way and a huge amount of %. The enemy will be walking on eggshells around you in the neutral game.

Incineroar has always been a good character, and he will always be. People just aren't playing him right.

And I say ALL of this as an owl fan. I wanted decidueye 100% over Incineroar and I was upset that he got in. Doesn't mean I can't see whats obvious right in front of me.

Now let me say one more thing, people comparing him to brawl ganon and making gigantic assumptions and are 100% likely to be bad players. There is a thing in smash about how many hits it takes to get the enemy to KO %, how safely you can do it, and how easily you can land the KO move. The best characters without question are the best at those three things. If for example your character has to win neutral 10 times to get the enemy to 100, but can't do it safely (think like smash 4 roy) then they are going to have serious problems even if they can KO fairly well.

Brawl ganons problem was that despite the fact he hit hard and could KO effectively, he had no combos, meaning he had to win neutral more times with his unsafe moves, than characters who had safe combo starters.

Incineorar is unique because while Ganon needed about 5 neutral wins to get the enemy to KO range, Incineroar needs ONE. One revenge boosted side b and half the cast will die from uncharged fsmash near the middle of the stage. And a long-range grab with super armor is many... many times easier to land than any of Ganons moves except of course his side b... which was somewhat easy to land!

Incineroars ability to actually land the KO move is another story, but the point is he has to win neutral a fraction of the amount of times that brawl ganon did, and he has better tools to do it.

RandysRage · Dec 4, 2018

Browny said:
Incineroar being bad is a circlejerk meme, this character has a ton of potential and its because of his fear factor.

I've seen many videos of people playing him and they are making HUGE mistakes.

1) They aren't using revenge against projectiles. People say incineroar is slow and can be camped out, so they just willingly take all these projectile hits for no reason? Every projectile sent your way is a free revenge boost.

2) They aren't using revenge, at all. This move is busted good, not using it is bad play and makes the character look bad. Yes its risky, but Incineroar weighs a lot, he can take the risks. Think of it this way, if you watched a fox who never used blasters, ever, and they lost and called fox bad, you would rightfully call them out for being bad and deliberately playing worse. This is the same with Incineroar. He has an incredibly good move that defines him. Choosing to not use it, is choosing to nerf yourself. Don't be mad if you don't use good attacks and lose, that's on you.

3) They use nair to approach. This is inexcusably bad play, so many people keep doing this. You wouldn't approach with nair with pikachu, don't approach with nair with Incineroar.

4) They aren't recovering high. Side b, jump, cross chop to recover high gives Incineroar maximum recovery distance and its not the easiest thing to edgeguard because of how fast it is. Mix it up a bit but for the love of god, stop recovering low every time, its too predictable.

The fear factor though is the big thing. So few smash players fully appreciate how certain moves can force the enemy to play differently and make stupid mistakes. The greatest examples are full charge blast moves. When you have one ready, the enemy is terrified to drop unsafe moves out and it will seriously change their approach. Think of Marth, he can happily throw out fairs all day long without a care in the world to space you out, pressure and approach you and it is extremely safe. When you have a full charge attack, he no longer has that safety. Now he has to use his MUCH worse options to deal with you, making the matchup easier.

Incineroar does this in a new fashion thanks to his unique revenge. The first step is making the opponent afraid of triggering revenge. They aren't going to throw out safe, weak spacing moves or projectiles constantly like they used to because it will be extremely easy to activate revenge. So now they have to resort to playing much more carefully, therefore you have nerfed them. The second step of course is once you have the revenge. Stay lightly out of their range, make them terrified of a whiff because if they do, a sideb is coming their way and a huge amount of %. The enemy will be walking on eggshells around you in the neutral game.

Incineroar has always been a good character, and he will always be. People just aren't playing him right.

And I say ALL of this as an owl fan. I wanted decidueye 100% over Incineroar and I was upset that he got in. Doesn't mean I can't see whats obvious right in front of me.

Now let me say one more thing, people comparing him to brawl ganon and making gigantic assumptions and are 100% likely to be bad players. There is a thing in smash about how many hits it takes to get the enemy to KO %, how safely you can do it, and how easily you can land the KO move. The best characters without question are the best at those three things. If for example your character has to win neutral 10 times to get the enemy to 100, but can't do it safely (think like smash 4 roy) then they are going to have serious problems even if they can KO fairly well.

Brawl ganons problem was that despite the fact he hit hard and could KO effectively, he had no combos, meaning he had to win neutral more times with his unsafe moves, than characters who had safe combo starters.

Incineorar is unique because while Ganon needed about 5 neutral wins to get the enemy to KO range, Incineroar needs ONE. One revenge boosted side b and half the cast will die from uncharged fsmash near the middle of the stage. And a long-range grab with super armor is many... many times easier to land than any of Ganons moves except of course his side b... which was somewhat easy to land!

Incineroars ability to actually land the KO move is another story, but the point is he has to win neutral a fraction of the amount of times that brawl ganon did, and he has better tools to do it.

Wonderful write-up, my friend. Couldn't have said it better, and Decidueye was my #2 Gen 7 pick after the Heel if it makes you feel any better.

Deleted member · Dec 6, 2018

Rearing to go Incineroar looks great!

GustGC · Dec 6, 2018

Browny said:
Incineroar being bad is a circlejerk meme, this character has a ton of potential and its because of his fear factor.

I've seen many videos of people playing him and they are making HUGE mistakes.

1) They aren't using revenge against projectiles. People say incineroar is slow and can be camped out, so they just willingly take all these projectile hits for no reason? Every projectile sent your way is a free revenge boost.

2) They aren't using revenge, at all. This move is busted good, not using it is bad play and makes the character look bad. Yes its risky, but Incineroar weighs a lot, he can take the risks. Think of it this way, if you watched a fox who never used blasters, ever, and they lost and called fox bad, you would rightfully call them out for being bad and deliberately playing worse. This is the same with Incineroar. He has an incredibly good move that defines him. Choosing to not use it, is choosing to nerf yourself. Don't be mad if you don't use good attacks and lose, that's on you.

3) They use nair to approach. This is inexcusably bad play, so many people keep doing this. You wouldn't approach with nair with pikachu, don't approach with nair with Incineroar.

4) They aren't recovering high. Side b, jump, cross chop to recover high gives Incineroar maximum recovery distance and its not the easiest thing to edgeguard because of how fast it is. Mix it up a bit but for the love of god, stop recovering low every time, its too predictable.

The fear factor though is the big thing. So few smash players fully appreciate how certain moves can force the enemy to play differently and make stupid mistakes. The greatest examples are full charge blast moves. When you have one ready, the enemy is terrified to drop unsafe moves out and it will seriously change their approach. Think of Marth, he can happily throw out fairs all day long without a care in the world to space you out, pressure and approach you and it is extremely safe. When you have a full charge attack, he no longer has that safety. Now he has to use his MUCH worse options to deal with you, making the matchup easier.

Incineroar does this in a new fashion thanks to his unique revenge. The first step is making the opponent afraid of triggering revenge. They aren't going to throw out safe, weak spacing moves or projectiles constantly like they used to because it will be extremely easy to activate revenge. So now they have to resort to playing much more carefully, therefore you have nerfed them. The second step of course is once you have the revenge. Stay lightly out of their range, make them terrified of a whiff because if they do, a sideb is coming their way and a huge amount of %. The enemy will be walking on eggshells around you in the neutral game.

Incineroar has always been a good character, and he will always be. People just aren't playing him right.

And I say ALL of this as an owl fan. I wanted decidueye 100% over Incineroar and I was upset that he got in. Doesn't mean I can't see whats obvious right in front of me.

Now let me say one more thing, people comparing him to brawl ganon and making gigantic assumptions and are 100% likely to be bad players. There is a thing in smash about how many hits it takes to get the enemy to KO %, how safely you can do it, and how easily you can land the KO move. The best characters without question are the best at those three things. If for example your character has to win neutral 10 times to get the enemy to 100, but can't do it safely (think like smash 4 roy) then they are going to have serious problems even if they can KO fairly well.

Brawl ganons problem was that despite the fact he hit hard and could KO effectively, he had no combos, meaning he had to win neutral more times with his unsafe moves, than characters who had safe combo starters.

Incineorar is unique because while Ganon needed about 5 neutral wins to get the enemy to KO range, Incineroar needs ONE. One revenge boosted side b and half the cast will die from uncharged fsmash near the middle of the stage. And a long-range grab with super armor is many... many times easier to land than any of Ganons moves except of course his side b... which was somewhat easy to land!

Incineroars ability to actually land the KO move is another story, but the point is he has to win neutral a fraction of the amount of times that brawl ganon did, and he has better tools to do it.

Finally. Somebody spoke the TRUTH! LET'S GO BROTHERS!

Whitephoenixace · Dec 7, 2018

So whats everyones opinion on incine so far?

Spinosaurus · Dec 7, 2018

Extremely good counterpick character.

meleebrawler · Dec 7, 2018

Spinosaurus said:
Extremely good counterpick character.

Going back to your doubles theory, can Incineroar get Revenge from moves like Warlock Punch and not get scaling like absorption moves got in 4?

Whitephoenixace · Dec 8, 2018

Ngl i feel what people are saying in terms of him being slow. But MAN does he do damage if he gets close enough. He seems like he is gonna take some real skill to master though

VexTheHex · Dec 8, 2018

Trying to spend my time doing other stuff, but I can't help but watch some Smash videos while I wait for my chance to play it. Found this video online showing all the screen splats and actually love Incineroar's. I have a pesky kitten myself and he loves to stand in front of my screen and swat at it. And this just makes me think of that. Also saw one spirit battle regarding Red Pikmin inhabiting mini-Incineroar bodies and found that adorable. A bunch of tiny muscular tiger heels running around beating up bugs.

Spinosaurus · Dec 8, 2018

meleebrawler said:
Going back to your doubles theory, can Incineroar get Revenge from moves like Warlock Punch and not get scaling like absorption moves got in 4?

Nooooot entirely sure what you mean. Like, if there's a limit to how much it scales? I'm pretty sure that's the case.

meleebrawler · Dec 8, 2018

Spinosaurus said:
Nooooot entirely sure what you mean. Like, if there's a limit to how much it scales? I'm pretty sure that's the case.

In Smash 4 doubles, having your teammate use absorption moves like PSI Magnet and Oil Panic on your moves would cause their damage to be more than halved, to prevent abuse. I'm just wondering if this applies to close combat moves on Incineroar's Revenge.

RandysRage · Dec 8, 2018

Whitephoenixace said:
So whats everyones opinion on incine so far?

I've never had this much fun playing a Smash character, holy crap.

Whitephoenixace · Dec 8, 2018

Ngl ftilit and forward smash are so deadly when opps at higher percentages

MacDaddyNook · Dec 8, 2018

I finally got my hands on him yesterday and I have to say, I can't believe they keep finding ways to get me to love this cat more and more. Getting those sub-60% F-smash KOs is incredibly satisfying, and his speed and recovery don't seem as bad as everyone made them out to be.

Needless to say, I'm glad my most wanted newcomer is so fun to use (especially after how disappointing Pit, my most-wanted since the first game, was when he got in Brawl)

fogbadge · Dec 8, 2018

am i imagining it or is there something about incineroar that doest match sun and moon?

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