Social Burn With Passion!! -- Incineroar General Discussion (Formerly the Support Thread)

[TK Wolf]

I've had some good success lately using Dsmash to beat out attacks since he shifts his hurtbox so high up. It also has really low recovery time after. Charged whiffed Dsmash into Dsmash is hilarious.

What do people do for defensive options, specifically OOS? Grabs are too slow and short range, nair is okay. I find myself jumping away most often, just to get out, but I feel like I should be able to do more on a blocked attack.

 

[kirbsmash]

I love my baby boy in this game.
ROAR!!!

 

[NuzTheMonkey]

I believe Side B and his f-tilt both make for pretty good OOS options. I'm not sure though, you'd have to check the frame data thread for Incineroar.

 

[Browny]

I've had some good success lately using Dsmash to beat out attacks since he shifts his hurtbox so high up. It also has really low recovery time after. Charged whiffed Dsmash into Dsmash is hilarious.

What do people do for defensive options, specifically OOS? Grabs are too slow and short range, nair is okay. I find myself jumping away most often, just to get out, but I feel like I should be able to do more on a blocked attack.

Nair oos is unquestionably the best option.

Pivot utilt, if you can actually pull it off, is arguably better but requires different timing depending on the shieldstun of what hit you if you plan on buffering it, so its far more difficult.

upb oos for when you know you've got the heavy punish and the opponent is close and don't want to play games with the timing of the shielddrop, as it will buffer. Remember you can pretty easily reverse the direction of this in the buffer.

everything else is situational. Shield drop to lariat is great if they are behind you, otherwise shieldgrabs/dtilt/lariat if they are in front of you and you don't need the fastest option possible.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

God. Guys I think I need help.

Or some support. I dont know, something.

I love Incineroar. He was my most wanted. I keep training with him, I love him. I'm trying to improve but I get my ass handed to me online and especially against the plethora of characters with disjoints. Everyone has better dash dances. Everyone is so ****ing much faster. It doesn't matter that Inci's damage output is ridiculous, he can't even get to places. His roll is garbage for no reason. His recovery is complete ass, one single semi-spike and ye done. His frame data is below average, his jab doesn't work properly, the invincibility on Darkest Lariat doesn't even work properly or other attacks just stuff through it and hit Incineroar's body... His attacks don't even have enough hitstun to work properly, every ****ing damn time I nair someone at low percent I cant even followup, I just get jabbed. His grab range despite his quote and quote grappler status is garbage.
I wanna keep going, I want to improve, but I keep losing, I only rarely win against people who are clearly better than I am, or just use characters that can zone his butt out or just outrange you. He can't even space in neutral with say, Fair, because a great amount of the most used characters have disjointed aerial.

Okay no, I think I'm gonna stop here. This is just a stupid rant, I'm not gonna drop Incineroar, but right now I think he needs buffs. He needs something, everyone can just destroy him. Not even revenge can save him. I got to 1mill. 600k in Elite Smash with him but now it's really hard. Lag, input lag dont help either. Or maybe I'm just garbage at this game.

 

[Desdar300]

God. Guys I think I need help.

Or some support. I dont know, something.

I love Incineroar. He was my most wanted. I keep training with him, I love him. I'm trying to improve but I get my *** handed to me online and especially against the plethora of characters with disjoints. Everyone has better dash dances. Everyone is so ****ing much faster. It doesn't matter that Inci's damage output is ridiculous, he can't even get to places. His roll is garbage for no reason. His recovery is complete ***, one single semi-spike and ye done. His frame data is below average, his jab doesn't work properly, the invincibility on Darkest Lariat doesn't even work properly or other attacks just stuff through it and hit Incineroar's body... His attacks don't even have enough hitstun to work properly, every ****ing damn time I nair someone at low percent I cant even followup, I just get jabbed. His grab range despite his quote and quote grappler status is garbage.
I wanna keep going, I want to improve, but I keep losing, I only rarely win against people who are clearly better than I am, or just use characters that can zone his butt out or just outrange you. He can't even space in neutral with say, Fair, because a great amount of the most used characters have disjointed aerial.

Okay no, I think I'm gonna stop here. This is just a stupid rant, I'm not gonna drop Incineroar, but right now I think he needs buffs. He needs something, everyone can just destroy him. Not even revenge can save him. I got to 1mill. 600k in Elite Smash with him but now it's really hard. Lag, input lag dont help either. Or maybe I'm just garbage at this game.

Hang in there brother! I'm still learning the ins-and-outs of this game too and sometimes you just have those off matches. I usually like to spend hours training and looking at videos for research. That helps me out greatly.

 

[Z1GMA]

I've had some good success lately using Dsmash to beat out attacks since he shifts his hurtbox so high up. It also has really low recovery time after. Charged whiffed Dsmash into Dsmash is hilarious.

What do people do for defensive options, specifically OOS? Grabs are too slow and short range, nair is okay. I find myself jumping away most often, just to get out, but I feel like I should be able to do more on a blocked attack.

Yeah. I did some labbing and Dsmash Low Crushes and even Mid Crusches attacks that are frame 3 or slower. Only attacks that are frame 2 or faster can hit it. Very cool to buffer after a Jab Clash. So Dsmash is in a weird way his fastest attack (but still not). He's airbourne at frame 3. Bonkers.

And yeah, Nair OoS and CC OoS are both very nice. Uair OoS can sometimes work against Cross Up Happy ppl to start combos.

 

[Folax]

God. Guys I think I need help.

Or some support. I dont know, something.

I love Incineroar. He was my most wanted. I keep training with him, I love him. I'm trying to improve but I get my *** handed to me online and especially against the plethora of characters with disjoints. Everyone has better dash dances. Everyone is so ****ing much faster. It doesn't matter that Inci's damage output is ridiculous, he can't even get to places. His roll is garbage for no reason. His recovery is complete ***, one single semi-spike and ye done. His frame data is below average, his jab doesn't work properly, the invincibility on Darkest Lariat doesn't even work properly or other attacks just stuff through it and hit Incineroar's body... His attacks don't even have enough hitstun to work properly, every ****ing damn time I nair someone at low percent I cant even followup, I just get jabbed. His grab range despite his quote and quote grappler status is garbage.
I wanna keep going, I want to improve, but I keep losing, I only rarely win against people who are clearly better than I am, or just use characters that can zone his butt out or just outrange you. He can't even space in neutral with say, Fair, because a great amount of the most used characters have disjointed aerial.

Okay no, I think I'm gonna stop here. This is just a stupid rant, I'm not gonna drop Incineroar, but right now I think he needs buffs. He needs something, everyone can just destroy him. Not even revenge can save him. I got to 1mill. 600k in Elite Smash with him but now it's really hard. Lag, input lag dont help either. Or maybe I'm just garbage at this game.

I 100% understand what you're dealing with bro, but don't give up. You might be beating yourself, cause as strong as he is, you need to make sure to have good stage control, good mind games, and make clean reads. He's a high risk, high reward character. Just take a deep breath and get back in there, cause in all honesty he's solid as hell, just a poor recovery, but all that means is you need to keep stage control. Again, you got this man. Just make sure to keep a cool head, and go for the crazy stuff. He's meant to be played wild after all. Keep the pressure, don't let them breath.

 

[Browny]

Don't let bad recoveries get you down.

Falco is one of the best characters in melee, with arguably the worst recovery in the game.
Olimar was 2nd best in brawl, with the worst recovery in smash history.
Cloud was 2nd best in Smash 4, with the arguably the second worst recovery in the game.

 

[Z1GMA]

Roar's recovery only feel bad in some MUs. He's also able to mix up his recovery more than most characters.

 

[Luigifan18]

Roar's recovery only feel bad in some MUs. He's also able to mix up his recovery more than most characters.

He may have a decent degree of versatility in his recovery, but the actual distance it can cover is pretty bad, both vertically and horizontally. Compare this to, say, Jigglypuff, who has top-notch horizontal recovery due to multiple jumps, incredible air speed, low falling speed, and Pound, but mediocre vertical recovery due to lacking a proper height-gaining up special; however, the multiple jumps, as well as Pound being usable over and over in midair, allows Jigglypuff to delay its return to the stage a bit and still make it back, so the versatility of her recovery is okay (but falls short of Meta Knight, who, while lacking Jigglypuff's air speed, has four specials that can give him a final burst of momentum in various ways, though all leave him helpless afterwards; Meta Knight falls short of Jigglypuff's raw horizontal distance capacity, but can cover more vertical height and is more versatile). Kirby, who does have a proper height-gaining up special on top of multiple jumps, giving him amazing vertical recovery, but then falls rapidly until touching the ground or bottom blast line at the end of it (and also has poor air speed and no moves that give him sideways momentum in the air, making his horizontal recovery good, but nowhere near as good as Jigglypuff and Meta Knight). The poor air speed and drop-like-a-rock nature of Kirby's up special make the versatility of his recovery substantially worse than Meta Knight or Jigglypuff as well.

I don't really have time to go further in depth, and I did pick three characters with all-around fantastic recoveries to go over... can anyone think of a character whose recovery can cover a great distance both vertically and horizontally, but isn't able to mix up their recovery much and can be easily gimped by a pro player as a result? I would mention Ike, but Aether's height gain isn't that amazing and Quick Draw requires so much charge-up time to cover a truly respectable distance that it's only a viable horizontal recovery if used from near the top of the screen; it can’t really recover from a semi-spike.

 

[Z1GMA]

Yeah he cant really bide his time too much while recovering.

I love revenge but im not sure how the multiplier works.
Can someone give me a mathematic example of being hit by a move that deals 5%, and being hit by a move that deals 15%?
And how they are applied to roar if he uses a move that does like 10%
Thx

 

[TK Wolf]

Ouchhhh, I played an Isabelle that multiple times did throw (not sure which one) into multiple fairs till I was KO'ed off the stage. I tried jumping, air dodging, countering, DI up, towards... I have no clue what I'm supposed to do, or if the matchup is "don't get grabbed". It was online though, so maybe it's more avoidable offline?

On the plus side, I got past 1.5m GSP... still no elite though. D:

 

[Browny]

Yeah he cant really bide his time too much while recovering.

I love revenge but im not sure how the multiplier works.
Can someone give me a mathematic example of being hit by a move that deals 5%, and being hit by a move that deals 15%?
And how they are applied to roar if he uses a move that does like 10%
Thx

Off the top of my head, any hit whatsoever (even 0.1%) increases the next move by 1.5x. From there up to 30% or so it stacks but it hits the 2x multiplier at like 10%, before slowing down a lot where it only increases by another 1x (so 3x total) between 10 and 30. Again, only what I roughly remember. The point is, if you revenge a smash attack, don't bother using it again as the boost you will get is going to be very negligible, considering you'll take % and lose a hard punish.

 

[Z1GMA]

Off the top of my head, any hit whatsoever (even 0.1%) increases the next move by 1.5x. From there up to 30% or so it stacks but it hits the 2x multiplier at like 10%, before slowing down a lot where it only increases by another 1x (so 3x total) between 10 and 30. Again, only what I roughly remember. The point is, if you revenge a smash attack, don't bother using it again as the boost you will get is going to be very negligible, considering you'll take % and lose a hard punish.

So any damage I recieve (from 0.1% and 9.9%) will give me the same amout of boost? (1.5x damage boost?)

 

[Browny]

It increases constantly, the rate just drops off before almost flatlining near 30. Also my numbers must be off, it hits 2x well before 10% since the following 20% up to 30 only increases it by a little bit.

So a 0.1% revenge might do 1.5
5% does 2.0
10% revenge does 2.3
20% does 2.7
30% does 3.0

Again, completely made up. That's just something along the lines of what I remember reading somewhere. The general point remains the same.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

What's up with the GSP? Each day I gain like 60k for no reason.

Anyways, what's you guys GSP with Roar? Mine is 1mil862k atm, which I think is very high?

I feel much better about Incineroar. I'm sorry for my rant the other day. I improved, and I feel like I understand Incineroar's game plan and neutral much better. I 'm more consistent with his combos, kill percents, etc.
I stand on the fact that Incineroar has some really bad matchups though. The worst ones, imo, being Palutena, Samuses, Sonic, Fox, Captain Falcon. Maybe others. Swordies are hard to deal with, but if it's stuff like Chrom, it's very easy to bait them to Braindead Nair and just Nair them yourself from above if they do.

I love Incineroar so much. Bowser has always been my main but I feel like Incineroar is so much more fun to play. Much more stylish, much more personality, amazing chara design overall (not to say Bowser doesn't have an incredible chara design he's my favorite character of all time)...
And I will try to improve more. Thank you guys for the kind answers to my rant. Lol

 

[TK Wolf]

I'm at 1.66M gsp... Still no elite though! D:
(Zero is at around 1.75M, so 1.86 is pretty nuts)

The more I play Incineroar, the more I fall in love with him. I use bair/fair for spacing a lot, mixed up with double jumps. Uair to prevent landing is so strong. Revenge any time they get too aggressive. I try to hold the center of the stage and push outwards slowly, which makes the alolan whip that much more threatening.

 

[Whitephoenixace]

Highest i reached was like 1.2mil. Been dropped to 500mill recently due to my own errors im trying to correct though.

On another note. Does incineroar have any moves he can use to change direction midair ? I keep self destructing with cross chop sometimes as it goes in the opposite direction

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

You need to reverse your Cross Chop. Simply input the opposite direction while using the move.

 

[Browny]

I'm going to try streaming as I've got my hands on all the good gear to do it.

Internet isn't the best in Australia, but I've got the best that money can buy so I'm hoping it can handle it. Hope to do a ton of Incineroar and show off some stuff. I'm really big on upb out-of-shield, lariat to stuff approaches and edgeguards so expect to see a lot of that. I'll update once its all sorted.

 

[Rhus]

Hello all, just dropping in to tell you I love your character dearly.

As a die hard Fox main I never expected to enjoy Incineroar but I always liked his design in Sun/Moon so I tried him out and spent more time with him here and there.

What a fun character - I'm having a blast with him. His personality and gameplay just make him delightful to play. I'll be sticking around the Incineroar boards from now on.

INcineROAR!

 

[RandysRage]

Hello all, just dropping in to tell you I love your character dearly.

As a die hard Fox main I never expected to enjoy Incineroar but I always liked his design in Sun/Moon so I tried him out and spent more time with him here and there.

What a fun character - I'm having a blast with him. His personality and gameplay just make him delightful to play. I'll be sticking around the Incineroar boards from now on.

INcineROAR!

Welcome to the fold. We have Christmas cookies.

 

[TK Wolf]

Anyone have recommendations on good Incineroar players to follow on twitch or youtube? I still have a ways to go myself. Would really help having more folks to learn from.

 

[Browny]

lul, disregard my previous post about streaming wifi. Its god awful in this country. I'll upload proper replays sometime from offline matches.

I did however play vs a top player in my state for 9 matches, went 3-6 vs him. Not bad considering afterwards, he won an online tournament and went 6-2 vs a former top 5 player in the entire country.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/354857354?t=02h01m14s

I was definitely getting used to wifi the first few matches (I had about 10 matches before this since release, I've been almost exclusively playing offline), the last half though were better but still no where near what I'd call a good connection. I swear it was better in brawl. Can't even react to an egg throw with revenge before its in my face, thats why I was shielding so much.

Lessons learned: The super armour on upb not activating until frame 4 is something worth remembering. Multiple times I died for free because I tried to challenge the edgeguard with upb which came out, but I was smacked out of it. All I need to is use it a few frames earlier and I would have been fine. And nair is still fantastic, I got so much mileage out of that move its ridiculous.

 

[Whitephoenixace]

Just found this guy who looks like a really good incine player. Looks like there is defintrly stuff to take from how he plays. Here is one vid wih him
https://youtu.be/osCgKmpibJE

 

[TK Wolf]

Great vids/links!

Went to my first tourney! Went 2-2 in my sets, ending 49th/128, solo Incineroar. Honestly, I'm really happy with this. If I can steel my nerves better and not have as many panic reactions as I did, I would've have advanced one or maybe two rounds further. I learned a lot from it. There's an incredibly good Incineroar player here, Magister (Magistar?), that I got to watch a bunch, too.

Oh yeah, I was messing around in training mode and noticed that Incineroar has none of his intangible areas when lariat is used in the air. D:

 

[Whitephoenixace]

Yh darkest lariat only has the protection while he is on the ground. On another note which parts of side b have super armor? Causw the game sadly doesnt show super armor

 

[RandysRage]

Happy New Year, Heel supporters

Let's keep up the good work and continue to show why Incineroar is the best there is!

Remember to Revenge often, style on the opponent whenever the opportunity presents itself, and to ALWAYS pop off when landing a clothesline.

Here's to making 2019 the year of

 

[Dr. Wario]

On a purely aesthetic level, I love Incineroar because he's absolutely hilarious. In terms of the greater Pokemon meta, I'm surprised they didn't use Decidueye, as I had thought that was this generation's "marketable" starter (think Charizard, Blaziken, Greninja...)

 

[Noipoi]

Quick! How do I get good with Macho Man Randy Savage Incineroar?

 

[meleebrawler]

This may just be be my imagination, but it looks like you can tell how powered up your Revenge is by looking at how much of Incineroar's body is covered by embers.

 

[KieRanaRan]

This may just be be my imagination, but it looks like you can tell how powered up your Revenge is by looking at how much of Incineroar's body is covered by embers.

Yup! The redder you are, the better.

 

[Z1GMA]

so throwing roar takes away his boost right away huh?

 

[Whitephoenixace]

so throwing roar takes away his boost right away huh?

Yh

 

[Luigifan18]

OMG, this video.

I think my sides went missing.

 

[soyperson]

"Incineroar" is a bit of a mouthful, and I always find myself referring to it as "Incky" (pronounced like "inky") as a nickname

 

[KieRanaRan]

"Incineroar" is a bit of a mouthful, and I always find myself referring to it as "Incky" (pronounced like "inky") as a nickname

What the hell is your nickname for Inkling then?

 

[soyperson]

What the hell is your nickname for Inkling then?

Other inky

 

[Dcas]

At the start of the game having success with incineroar was extremely easy, now the people are getting to know the MU, i can confidently say that incineroar is only a counterpick and very situational, his only downfall is his horrible walk and running speed, they are extremely bad.

Playing again a good swordie is very painful and requires some solid spacing /reads and well against any zoner is even more painful, to the point i can safely say MM is the worst MU for incineroar along with Palutena. His recovery its serviceable but still bad.

On the brightside, he has some amazingly decent MU vs some top tiers such as fox or any character that needs to be on your face hence why i think he is a solid counterpick.

The only way i see him being more viable is if they buff his movement speed at least to ganondorf tier (even better would be awesome) which i really doubt otherwise i only see him as a situational counterpick.