Buffing Suggestions for Dedede

[Alsyght]

Dedede is much better in this game. Still combo food and slow, at least he’s not the worst character anymore.

These are my suggestions:

(Disclaimer: I don’t know how to read frame data. These are just my observations from looking at him at 1/4th speed in training mode. These are just my opinions.)

Edit: I’m not asking for all these suggestions, nor am I asking for any of them to be put in the game. I’m just saying he’d be better at a character with at least one of these options. Take it with a grain of salt.

Aerials:

Neutral Air: Give Heavy Armor to this attack and it will be fine.

Jab and Titls:

Down Tilt:

Down Tilt is a good, fast move, but I feel like the hitbox comes out a bit too late. It could be a good out-of-shield option if the opponent is too close. Still susceptible to grabs, but the hitbox should come out from the start instead of near the end if the frames are anything like in Smash 4.

Side Tilts:

Another faster tilt. My only suggestion is make the hitbox on the handle of the mallet a bit bigger to catch opponents falling near there. Otherwise fine,

Jab:

Jab-jab into anything combos seem to be gone. While Dedede’s jab was fixed, he’s lost some combo potential from all three attacks coming out immediately after another. The second hit could be slowed down a bit to allow for more wiggle room with inputs.

Specials:

Gordo:

His best and worst move acting as a double-edge sword when it doesn’t need to be. I have a host of suggestions for this:

-Knockback percentage should be increased from 2% to anywhere between 5-7%. 10% at the very most, but that’d be a bit unfair.

-Gordo should receive invincibility upon inhalation reflection. It’s a giant, heavy, fast-moving metal ball. It shouldn’t be knockbacked to easily, if at all. Counters and reflectors are still viable against it, of course.

-The Gordo should NOT be knockback directly to Dedede. I’m not sure if it’s just the angle of certain moves doing that, but it shouldn’t be hitting me more times than not. It’s not balanced enough for that to happen.

-There should be an easier way to throw back the Gordo if it’s knockbacked to you if inhaling is too slow. Either the air dodge should allow Dedede to Toss it back through that entire window, or let us knock it back again with side-B.

Inhaling:

-Inhaling is a command grab, but I feel it’s the worst in the game. Unlike others, it slides the opponent towards you allowing for a medium to long-ranged attack that makes it unsafe from a distance with certain characters like the Belmonts or Zero Suit. But I digress. I feel like it should suck in opponents on command, but that might make it too good and I’m just being a little salty.


These suggestions are just my pet peeves about the character, and I feel Dedede would be bettter with at least one of these as a buff.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I agree with all of these buffs. I should also point out that Gordos should have their old launch angles back.

 

[Alsyght]

What were the old launch angles?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

What were the old launch angles?

Not sure, but they allowed for better combo setups.

 

[Alsyght]

Are you talking about the ones like on battlefield in Smash 4? Gordo hit knockback to the top platform and f-smash/jet hammer/etc kill?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Are you talking about the ones like on battlefield in Smash 4? Gordo hit knockback to the top platform and f-smash/jet hammer/etc kill?

Somewhat. That or any hit on FD that connects to a gordo, launches upward and leads to an up air kill.

 

[Crosser]

Gordo after inhale should not be so easily knocked back for sure.

Armor on Jet hammer like his custom move in Smash 4 would be nice.

Drop from platforms while Neutral B, like K. Rool.

Up B needs to go through platforms if you want like Yoshis Down B.

Give him back his Back Air animation from Smash 4.

Change direction after inhale.

Up B needs to break full shields, its the slowest most obvious move in the game.

Or up B needs to have faster recovery on hit. Even if it hits someone they will be able to hit you back before you recover. That's not right.

Or when you cancel out of Up B you can move again like Snake, the move is waaay to unsafe.

Instead of holding to bypass the stage edge while you Up B, just hold the B button to bypass the edge. Aiming Up B and then switching to causes weird directional inputs.

And Dedede should be able to hit his Gordos whenever the hell he wants. Not just when they are knocked back.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

And Dedede should be able to hit his Gordos whenever the hell he wants. Not just when they are knocked back.

And they should give him the old Gordo angles back, so I can actually combo.

 

[KingDoop]

I have a modest wishlist. Having less startup on inhale and either more knockback on fair or significantly less landing lag. When using fair at low percents your opponent goes literally nowhere. So make them fly or let DDD act after.

If I can get those I'd be happy. Any of the following would be a plus:
shieldbreaker upB
inhale sucks up shielding opponents
super armor jet hammer
f-smash on opponent holding the ledge is a spike (cause whack-a-mole)

And maybe for some added fun give him a burying move. D-tilt and dash attack seem like worthy contenders

 

[Mogisthelioma]

You should be able to hold on to and jump/turn around with a projectile in your mouth like you can with an opponent.

Dedede should have less lag when he cancels up B and floats to the ground.

 

[dankDadi]

his spike is so hard to hit, they should at least buff it or make his down b spike when its released in the air

 

[Alsyght]

I heard our penguin daddy got nerfed a bit last path. Is this true?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I heard our penguin daddy got nerfed a bit last path. Is this true?

They adjusted the hitbox size for gordos. I believe they made them smaller. It's a double edged sword: The hitbox is smaller, but that also means they're harder to reflect.

 

[Dr. Corndog]

Wouldn't mind being able to drop through platforms whole inhaling. Most of these buffs sound unnecessary, though. Nair is a great move and does NOT need heavy armor. His tilts are fine as is. And, I hate to say it, but if you're having so many problems with Gordo Toss, then you probably just need to learn the move.

 

[Alsyght]

Mmm, I’m gonna have to disagree at least to the Gordo thing. While personally, I understand the Gordo and know how to use it effectively, the way it works is still in the opponents favor sometimes. The way it’s deflected is almost unfair. Like I said, a 2% knockback is ridiculous. Really, only multi-hit moves can’t knock it back like Ness’s Up Air or Sheik’s needles. It’s giant heavy metal ball, why is it knocked back so easily? It acts more like Wii Fit’s header than Bowser Jr or K. Rool’s Blunderbuss.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

If Gordo is going to have such a weak knockback barrier, DDD himself should be able to hit it with one of his own hammer swings again to knock it forward with even more velocity. That, or change the damage required to like 5% or something.

...or...

Make Gordos un-reflect-able save for normal reflectors. That way it can function like a normal projectile. Considering it's relatively slow movement speed and direction compared to things like Wolf's blaster it's not like making Gordos unbeatable would suddenly make them OP. It would only mean DDD would have a reliable projectile, something superheavies desperately need.

 

[Dr. Corndog]

Like I said, a 2% knockback is ridiculous. Really, only multi-hit moves can’t knock it back like Ness’s Up Air or Sheik’s needles. It’s giant heavy metal ball, why is it knocked back so easily? It acts more like Wii Fit’s header than Bowser Jr or K. Rool’s Blunderbuss.

Okay, but why is 2% knockback ridiculous? I have yet to hear a compelling reason. Your only argument (and the only argument I've ever heard) is that it's a "giant heavy metal ball," which isn't an issue of game balance. In other words, it's practically irrelevant.

Gordo toss deals upwards of 18% damage, has a large hitbox, can be sent on multiple trajectories, can be inhaled, and KOs at high percents. It's an incredible edgeguarding tool. Moreover, it is relatively safe if used correctly. That doesn't sound like a move in need of a buff to me.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Okay, but why is 2% knockback ridiculous? I have yet to hear a compelling reason. Your only argument (and the only argument I've ever heard) is that it's a "giant heavy metal ball," which isn't an issue of game balance. In other words, it's practically irrelevant.

Gordo toss deals upwards of 18% damage, has a large hitbox, can be sent on multiple trajectories, can be inhaled, and KOs at high percents. It's an incredible edgeguarding tool. Moreover, it is relatively safe if used correctly. That doesn't sound like a move in need of a buff to me.

Because simple and effortless moves like jab can reflect gordos.

We're talking about an enemy in the kirby series that's indestructible being reflected by basic punches and kicks. Aesthetic wise, Gordos shouldn't be reflect-able, period. Gamplay wise it's stupid that such weak hits can send them back at Mach 5.

Considering the properties and usefulness that other projectiles have Gordos are average at best. When you look at things like Wolf's blaster and Peach's Turnip, then you have a super good projectile.

 

[Alsyght]

Okay, but why is 2% knockback ridiculous? I have yet to hear a compelling reason. Your only argument (and the only argument I've ever heard) is that it's a "giant heavy metal ball," which isn't an issue of game balance. In other words, it's practically irrelevant.

Gordo toss deals upwards of 18% damage, has a large hitbox, can be sent on multiple trajectories, can be inhaled, and KOs at high percents. It's an incredible edgeguarding tool. Moreover, it is relatively safe if used correctly. That doesn't sound like a move in need of a buff to me.

Do you play Dedede? Because his Gordo is pretty bad. Many good players know how to deflect his Gordo. Captain Falcon can simply jab it once back at me and it flies across the screen. It’s hitbox and hurtbox are active once it’s on-screen causing up close encounters to be quite dangerous for usage. In a realistic sense, it should drop lame like every other metal ball if it’s hit, or give it a slightly higher percentage. Ask any other Dedede main about the Gordo and they say it needs a buffing.

Side Note: Has anybody here used a Gordo close range while the opponent is attacking and it still hits through the attack? Because I’m thinking Dedede’s hammer hitbox is still active making it deflect the Gordo back already when it’s still being sent out.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Side Note: Has anybody here used a Gordo close range while the opponent is attacking and it still hits through the attack? Because I’m thinking Dedede’s hammer hitbox is still active making it deflect the Gordo back already when it’s still being sent out.

There's a funny interaction between Dedede's gordo and Ness' forward smash: If dedede throws the gordo, right in front of ness, while ness uses f-smash, the gordo will get reflected like 5 times and someone will end up taking over 100% and flying off screen at Warp 8. Depending on the timing of the attacks the launced fighter can be either ness or Dedede.

 

[Dr. Corndog]

Considering the properties and usefulness that other projectiles have Gordos are average at best. When you look at things like Wolf's blaster and Peach's Turnip, then you have a super good projectile.

There have been calls to nerf Peach's down-B, actually. Maybe not the best comparison. Besides, not every move needs to be "super good."

Do you play Dedede?

I do.

Many good players know how to deflect his Gordo.

And good DeDeDe players know how to use Gordo.

It’s hitbox and hurtbox are active once it’s on-screen causing up close encounters to be quite dangerous for usage.

Then maybe don't use it when it's unsafe?

Ask any other Dedede main about the Gordo and they say it needs a buffing.

Anyone in particular?

 

[Alsyght]

Okay, but why is 2% knockback ridiculous? I have yet to hear a compelling reason. Your only argument (and the only argument I've ever heard) is that it's a "giant heavy metal ball," which isn't an issue of game balance. In other words, it's practically irrelevant.

Gordo toss deals upwards of 18% damage, has a large hitbox, can be sent on multiple trajectories, can be inhaled, and KOs at high percents. It's an incredible edgeguarding tool. Moreover, it is relatively safe if used correctly. That doesn't sound like a move in need of a buff to me.

And good DeDeDe players know how to use Gordo.

Then maybe don't use it when it's unsafe?

Anyone in particular?

Knowing how to use it versus understanding its pros and cons are two different things. The Gordo is a decent projectile, yes, but it can be countered in so many ways, it makes it almost useless in many of Dedede’s matchups.

It has multiple directions it can be thrown at, but it’s also slow and easily avoided by many good players. Again, a 2% hitbox is not quite good enough for it to be viable in neutral because virtually any move can deflect it. It’s not a decent projectile like Wolf’s or ZSS’s laser, Blunderbuss/Krown Toss, Piranha Plant’s Metal ball, PK Fire, etc. Only until you get the upper hand—which is difficult for Dedede—can you really use it, because even then it’s mostly used for trapping with the offset that the opponent is too stupid to avoid it. When your opponent knocks it back, the Gordo sometimes does even more damage coming back to Dedede, if and when it connects.

Gordo can really only go through multi-hit moves that deal weak percentages. Shiek’s needles; Ness’s new up-air; Bowser’s Fire; for some reason not Charizard’s, but that’s a different story. The damage is dealt separately, so the Gordo isn’t affected as it has no percentage increase. These few moves aren’t worth the awful double-edged sword the Gordo already is.

I don’t doubt the developers’ minds when designing the Gordo, but with everything in King Dedede’s arsenal, his Gordo should be his main tool. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind it being reflected back at him, but King Dedede is lacking in some respects of a character, especially as a heavy. So telling me to use it when it’s unsafe is obviously common sense and such a moot point.

And no, I actually don’t know that many people who use Dedede besides the people on here who’ve agreed that the Gordo needs a buffing. Maybe look around around yourself and come back with an answer. ¯\_( ಠ_ಠ)_/¯

This is the longest post I’ve ever had to make. Please don’t make me write this much again. I am quite lazy.

 

[GeneralMew]

This could just be the musings of a delusional, deranged, demented Dedede main who has been playing him too much and accepting his badness, but there's very little I would choose to change about Dedede as a whole.

In general, I feel Gordo is pretty well balanced. I've never felt frustrated at its shortcomings nor has my opponent cursed me for using it. Additionally, Dedede has more tools to deal with Gordo reflection than before. Recognizing and reading when it'll be reflected has aided me to victory many times.

I think the biggest things Dedede needs are a reliable kill throw, and more moves that kill at reasonable percents. Back-Throw doesn't kill until past 140% at the ledge, and Up-Air's kill power is almost entirely reliant on the enemy's bad DI. Boosting a few of Dedede's moves so they kill more consistently would help him a lot, I think.

 

[Dr. Corndog]

Lotta stuff about Gordos

Fair points. I find Gordo to be a very good move personally, and I see a lot of pros get good mileage out of it. It's great at edgeguarding and excellent at ledgetrapping. You mainly want to avoid using it at mid-range, where it's far enough for the opponent to react but too close for DeDeDe to shield or inhale it.

This could just be the musings of a delusional, deranged, demented Dedede main who has been playing him too much and accepting his badness, but there's very little I would choose to change about Dedede as a whole.

In general, I feel Gordo is pretty well balanced. I've never felt frustrated at its shortcomings nor has my opponent cursed me for using it. Additionally, Dedede has more tools to deal with Gordo reflection than before. Recognizing and reading when it'll be reflected has aided me to victory many times.

I think the biggest things Dedede needs are a reliable kill throw, and more moves that kill at reasonable percents. Back-Throw doesn't kill until past 140% at the ledge, and Up-Air's kill power is almost entirely reliant on the enemy's bad DI. Boosting a few of Dedede's moves so they kill more consistently would help him a lot, I think.

I'm sort of in the same boat. I think it's likely DeDeDe needs a buff somewhere, but I couldn't say for sure where. More pressing is the need for a few nerfs among the top characters. That might give DeDeDe (and other characters, too) a bit more viability.

I don't know that DeDeDe needs a kill throw, though. Back air, down smash, and up air are already good kill moves. He can also kill offstage pretty well. If I were to buff DeDeDe, I'd probably try to improve his ledge recovery game. Maybe reduce the endlag on his up B so he can bypass the ledge entirely.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I understand the wish for buffs, but I feel that the general idea being expressed on the OP interprets buffs as "eliminate all weaknesses from my character".

Just to address a couple of points, the Gordos don't really need a % increase in their reflect threshold. It's an incredible tool that you NEED to know when to throw out. You can't simply shoot them in neutral at an opponent with good disjoints or projectiles like any conventional projectile. Gordo Toss isn't a conventional projectile. But it is extremely good at oppressing your opponent at the ledge.

And how is a move with a large grab disjoint like Inhale the worst command grab in the game?
If you find yourself in a situation where the opponent is in range to slide in and punish you, then that means that you mispaced and threw out the move in an unsafe spot. And the Belmonts have huge disjoints already, so you need to be extra careful against their range.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Just to address a couple of points, the Gordos don't really need a % increase in their reflect threshold. It's an incredible tool that you NEED to know when to throw out. You can't simply shoot them in neutral at an opponent with good disjoints or projectiles like any conventional projectile. Gordo Toss isn't a conventional projectile. But it is extremely good at oppressing your opponent at the ledge.

Gordo toss is the only projectile that can be reflected. They travel very slowly, especially compared to other projectiles. Ledge pressure is the one thing that keeps them viable. Otherwise, it's too risky knowing your opponent is probably going to reflect it. It only takes a 2% hit to reflect gordo, meaning almost any move in the game can do so. The change to something like 5% to 7% makes them safer on the ground.

If you could reflect the Belmonts' projectiles, Wolf's blaster, Peach's turnip, or Samus' charge shot, everyone who plays those fighters would be saying the same thing. Being able to manually reflect a projectile without an actual reflector move makes that projectile ten times more unsafe. To summarize it, all I'm asking for is to make gordo toss safer.

And how is a move with a large grab disjoint like Inhale the worst command grab in the game?
If you find yourself in a situation where the opponent is in range to slide in and punish you, then that means that you mispaced and threw out the move in an unsafe spot. And the Belmonts have huge disjoints already, so you need to be extra careful against their range.

Inhale is a bad move, period. It's very laggy and unsafe and launches at a fixed knockback, so it's never going to KO. Because of the windbox it produces opponents can hit you with disjoints just as their being sucked in, not just the Belmonts. Minus Kirby's inhale, which is arguably worse, every other command grab is safer. There isn't a correct way to place the move to be risk-free of disjoints unless they jump in to it or you land on top of them with it, which would mean your opponent is just stupid. Basicaly, there isn't a safe way to simply throw out inhale as an aggressive option and be safe like you can use other command grabs.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Gordo toss is the only projectile that can be reflected. They travel very slowly, especially compared to other projectiles. Ledge pressure is the one thing that keeps them viable. Otherwise, it's too risky knowing your opponent is probably going to reflect it. It only takes a 2% hit to reflect gordo, meaning almost any move in the game can do so. The change to something like 5% to 7% makes them safer on the ground.

Indeed, which is why you should never be throwing out Gordos that frequently during neutral in the first place. A mistake a lot beginner Dedede players do is abuse Gordo spam, not understanding the risks and not knowing that they aren't conventional projectiles.
Gordos have a very specific use, and its to be thrown out during your opponent's disadvantage state, particularly when they are at the ledge where they have to worry about the bouncing projectile and the Dedede player. Other scenarios would be when your opponent is above you and the possibility to shark them opens up. I've toyed with perhaps increasing the threshold to 3% but the 7% might make them too oppressive. Gordos are already oppressive enough, provided you are not carelessly throwing them out.

Inhale is a bad move, period. It's very laggy and unsafe and launches at a fixed knockback, so it's never going to KO. Because of the windbox it produces opponents can hit you with disjoints just as their being sucked in, not just the Belmonts. Minus Kirby's inhale, which is arguably worse, every other command grab is safer. There isn't a correct way to place the move to be risk-free of disjoints unless they jump in to it or you land on top of them with it, which would mean your opponent is just stupid. Basicaly, there isn't a safe way to simply throw out inhale as an aggressive option and be safe like you can use other command grabs.

Disjointed grabbox, man. Disjointed. Grabbox.
Ending lag isn't as bad as you make it out to be, and the disjoint procures that's relatively safer. Fixed knockback and lack of KO power isn't enough to make a move bad. It's silly to compare it to some of the other command grabs like that because that move has a different purpose than them, but since we are here: Flying Slam, Space Pirate Rush and Flame Choke are riskier to throw out as they have longer ending lag and come out a bit later than Inhale. Of course, those are offensive options and if you land them you are rewarded with a KO, damage or the possibility to do a follow up attack. On the other hand, Inhale SHOULDN'T be used as an aggressive option like those moves, but as a defensive tool to get your opponent off of you, covering landings and approaches. Should you swallow someone, you should spit them off stage where they are at a disadvantage.

No point in bringing up Kirby's Inhale. They are similar but also are quite different. Kirby's Inhale is bad because it's grabbox isn't as big as DDD's, it's reflecting properties are inferior and the ending lag makes you more prone for getting punished. It's not even that efficient as a defensive tool. Kirby wished he had Dedede's Inhale.

The following match contains good examples of how to properly utilize Inhale. Mind you, Mike has an aggressive playstyle and sometimes he overextends to the point of getting punished but he still manages to use the tool properly most of the time. The ending lag when spitting out a projectile is fast and Dedede rarely gets punished for it.

If your opponent is close to slide in for a punish (specially those with huge disjoints like the Belmonts) but not enough to be completely swallowed then you misjudged your spacing. No excuses.
And there are correct ways to use moves, so what are you talking about? It's ok to want buffs but that doesn't justify using a move in an unsafe manner and then complaining for getting punished by your own mistakes.

 

[Dr. Corndog]

A mistake a lot beginner Dedede players do is abuse Gordo spam, not understanding the risks and not knowing that they aren't conventional projectiles.

This bears repeating. They aren't conventional projectiles, and comparing them to conventional projectiles doesn't make sense. Can Wolf's blaster be fired at multiple trajectories? Can it hit enemies above Wolf? Is it a good edgeguarding tool? No, no, and no. For that matter, it doesn't deal anywhere near the damage of a Gordo, or the knockback. There are scads of differences between these two projectiles, as well as between Gordo Toss and pretty much any other projectile in the game. It doesn't make sense to improve one of Gordo Toss's disadvantages because it's unlike other moves in that respect, while ignoring all of the differences that give it advantages over other moves.

Another, more practical, issue with increasing the knockback threshold on Gordo Toss. You increase the damage, or the knockback, that a damage deals, and, OK, you've changed that one move. Maybe you've fixed it, maybe you've broken it, but it's just one move. You increase the damage required to knockback Gordo Toss, though, and you've effectively changed multiple moves across almost the entire cast. There are huge implications for this kind of change, implications that I don't think we've yet considered in this thread.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Indeed, which is why you should never be throwing out Gordos that frequently during neutral in the first place. A mistake a lot beginner Dedede players do is abuse Gordo spam, not understanding the risks and not knowing that they aren't conventional projectiles.
Gordos have a very specific use, and its to be thrown out during your opponent's disadvantage state, particularly when they are at the ledge where they have to worry about the bouncing projectile and the Dedede player. Other scenarios would be when your opponent is above you and the possibility to shark them opens up. I've toyed with perhaps increasing the threshold to 3% but the 7% might make them too oppressive. Gordos are already oppressive enough, provided you are not carelessly throwing them out.



Disjointed grabbox, man. Disjointed. Grabbox.
Ending lag isn't as bad as you make it out to be, and the disjoint procures that's relatively safer. Fixed knockback and lack of KO power isn't enough to make a move bad. It's silly to compare it to some of the other command grabs like that because that move has a different purpose than them, but since we are here: Flying Slam, Space Pirate Rush and Flame Choke are riskier to throw out as they have longer ending lag and come out a bit later than Inhale. Of course, those are offensive options and if you land them you are rewarded with a KO, damage or the possibility to do a follow up attack. On the other hand, Inhale SHOULDN'T be used as an aggressive option like those moves, but as a defensive tool to get your opponent off of you, covering landings and approaches. Should you swallow someone, you should spit them off stage where they are at a disadvantage.

No point in bringing up Kirby's Inhale. They are similar but also are quite different. Kirby's Inhale is bad because it's grabbox isn't as big as DDD's, it's reflecting properties are inferior and the ending lag makes you more prone for getting punished. It's not even that efficient as a defensive tool. Kirby wished he had Dedede's Inhale.

The following match contains good examples of how to properly utilize Inhale. Mind you, Mike has an aggressive playstyle and sometimes he overextends to the point of getting punished but he still manages to use the tool properly most of the time. The ending lag when spitting out a projectile is fast and Dedede rarely gets punished for it.

If your opponent is close to slide in for a punish (specially those with huge disjoints like the Belmonts) but not enough to be completely swallowed then you misjudged your spacing. No excuses.
And there are correct ways to use moves, so what are you talking about? It's ok to want buffs but that doesn't justify using a move in an unsafe manner and then complaining for getting punished by your own mistakes.

Alright, all fair points. I'll concede.
The only thing I'm still debating with myself about is the gordo toss damage reflect. I still think 2% is pathetic. A buff they meant simple jabs couldn't reflect them wouldn't make them super oppressive but still make them safer.

Besides, we all know the real buff Dedede needs is his airspeed. Also maybe f-air can have less lag both in air and when landing so Dedede has a safer aerial approach option in neutral.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I would like to see more kill power on some of his moves maybe utilt and ftilt and I'd like some moves to have faster start up maybe bair and fair. A better dtilt would be quite nice also. Also maybe faster dash attack and fsmash or less cool down maybe both.

 

[Ez Quinn]

I want jab-jab into stuff but not at the cost of losing our awesome and fixed jab.
Also the Gordo is perfectly good. As we can use side b to reflect it back or a airdodge
It would be funny if nair had armor but meh it’s not needed
F-tilt comes out at frame 23 when dropping shield making it his worst OoS option so idk
I’m just concerned about jab-jab comes/mixups
Also I want a kill Throw more than anything else

 

[Alsyght]

Give Super Armor or something to the beginning of Gordo Toss so Dedede isn’t susceptibile to close-ranged attacks when tossing it out.

I’m suggesting this because I noticed there might be a safe distance when using Gordo up close. You’ll hit the opponent with the hammer before or after the Gordo is hit—probably slightly after the Gordo is on the stage—and the opponent will have a small space between DeDeDe and the Gordo. At higher percents the opponent might be knocked into the Gordo.

I’ve had a few matches when it does this, but it seems to be safe. Idk if this is by accident or an actual mechanic. Idk

 

[Dr. Corndog]

Gordo is (almost?) unreflectable till it comes off the hammer. Plus, the hitbox is huge. I think super armor would be redundant, at best.

 

[Mental Surge]

faster F-tilt.

 

[~?~]

I think buffing heavies outside of aerial mobility is a generally dangerous move as nice as it sounds to buff one. 3D can kill pretty early so it makes sense for his start frames and end frames to be slower than the average character, given that kill power he has and the fact that he lives a long time. Faster frame data would be the dangerous part, so I'm more on the side of faster air mobility for better followups.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Couple of things. I wish his moves weren't so slow. Most of his moves he has to grunt and pause before a hitbox comes out. Also when they do come out, they don't really give the priority they deserve for being so slow. For example his inhale, insane lag on both ends, a whiff is an auto punish, while other characters whiff crap all day and get a free punish when you try to punish. As far as his other attacks, the distance between his reach and his hurtbox isn't that remarkable, so you have to hard read sometimes just to meet your opponent at the same level of attack.

He needs more out of shield options too, but since Nair is so short range, OoS Nair is just dumb. Also I don't get the bug where opponents reset back to neutral during a jab spam. I think DDD should also just be smaller and a little faster horizontal mobility. Being slow and big in this game is soooo detrimental, as it's always been, so I don't get why the balance team hasn't wisened up yet to that.

And finally, Gordo. If DDD's going to be slow and susceptible to zoning and rush down, he needs his projectile to provide security. Gordo is awesome and great, but most easy things shouldn't reflect it. It takes so long to whip it out, and no other character has to worry about their projectile turning against them unless there's a reflect mechanic. And their projectile is usually loads more forgiving. Like take Wolf example, he's top tier because of his godlike projectile but he doesn't deserve it, because he already has everything else too, except an okay recovery, but because his horizontal mobility is so good his alright B-up is enough to get back anyway and it can spike with insane priority. However a 2 ton penguin can get interrupted with his B-up 9 times outta 10. Being heavy has very little benefit.

As far as killing early, unless you eat an easily avoidable smash, DDDs kill power is on par with all the "weak" agile fighters but without any of the hit confirm combos to end it.

 

[Alsyght]

Inhale needs a huge buff. I literally just played against a Kirby who decided to use his copy ability (which is actually very useful in this matchup to protect from Gordos as I learned) and it’s MUCH faster than Dedede’s, and I call bull**** on anyone else saying he doesn’t need a buffing.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

King Dedede will never be truly amazing viable with that massive hurtbox and lowest air speed, so I don't think there are too many things that need to be fixed, but still a few. Here's what I will hoping for in the future.

- Gordo reflection threshold increased from 2% to 5%. Its still a massive issue that Gordo is reflected by anything that isn't a windbox, and makes neutrals against some characters extremely difficult (not saying Gordo should be used all the time in neutral but it needs to be an option.) Even this small bit of percentage means we won't as susceptable to Lemon and Gun Spam from each respective character, and does help against certain zoners.
- Make I think FThrow a kill throw (think thats the one with the low angle, although either F or B would work). Its actually suprisingly hard to kill with Dedede, so having a more reliable method of kill outside of edgeguard shenanigians would be great.
- Lower startup on Inhale. Its hard to whip out as a mixup with that much startup, so making it active slightly faster would be great for the character.
- Lower endlag on Ftilt. Great tool but easy to punish if we whiff, so if it allows us to get out even slightly faster would be so much better.

 

[chipndip]

Heavy Armor on neutral air?

An attempt to make his jab the only jab that free combos into things?

INVINCIBLE GORDOS?

BOUNCING BACK GORDOS WITH AN AIR DODGE!?

Like, is this the Eric Cartman buff list? The "My super power is to have all the super powers" buff list????

 

[Alsyght]

Heavy Armor on neutral air?

An attempt to make his jab the only jab that free combos into things?

INVINCIBLE GORDOS?

BOUNCING BACK GORDOS WITH AN AIR DODGE!?

Like, is this the Eric Cartman buff list? The "My super power is to have all the super powers" buff list????

If you read the little disclaimers, you would know I don’t care if he has any one of those buffs, but ONE would be nice to make him more viable in the game.

Yes “invincible” Gordos because it’s huge middle finger by Sakurai to have a GIGANTIC METAL SPIKE BALLBEING DEFLECTING BY TINY PELLETS (Villager/Isabelle) OR A ****ING FLIMSY FIREBALL (Mario/Luigi) OR A STUPID LEMON (Megaman). In most matchups REGARDLESS of Gordo usage is so unfair. But of course, egg-spammer, Gordo shouldn’t be buffed.

If you’ve ever used D3 you would know he has the ability to redirect his Gordo with an air dodge, but the window is small. I also found out the A-button is useful in doing so, but the window is too small for both options. So yes.

Dedede had it last game. Other characters the jab-jab combo too. What’s your point?