Buffing Suggestions for Dedede

SecretAsianMan

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My buffing suggestions:
-Increase Gordo cap to 3 percent
-Nair have a disjointed hitbox on the belly
-Fair have a tipper with the sakurai angle KB (just a different KB angle no extra damage or KB)
-Increasing the frame widow for the perfect Jet hammer charge by a few frames
-Make the Ftilt hitboxes slightly taller, Increase startup by 2 frames as decrease endlag by 3-4 frames
-Put a weak semi-spike in the start-up of dash attack
-Make his hat and hands intangible during dash attack
-Make the Dair sourspot KB angle a bit more Horizontal
-Increase Fsmash shock wave from 6 to 10 percent
-Expand Dtilt Hitbox to te entire front half of his body
-Increase airspeed by a pinch only when you cancel Up-B
-Decrease Up thow KB OR make the U air hitboxes a pinch taller
Notes:
-I personally think increasing The gordo percent cap to something like 5 is rediculous, Since Gordos bouncing back to you isn't much of an issue if you can actually play the game.
-Giving Nair a disjointed hitbox would help a lot with landing, because Dedede really struggles with this
-Giving Fair the sakurai angle would really help with his off-stage game
-I think the frame window for The perfect Jet Hammer charge is rediculous, increasing it by 2 or so frames would help
-Making F-tilt taller would help catch landings.

When he said "Bouncing back Gordos with airdoge" Dedede has a special catching animation that activates if you input something (exept jump, move) within 2 frames before the gordo hits you.
 
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chipndip

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If you read the little disclaimers, you would know I don’t care if he has any one of those buffs, but ONE would be nice to make him more viable in the game.

Yes “invincible” Gordos because it’s huge middle finger by Sakurai to have a GIGANTIC METAL SPIKE BALLBEING DEFLECTING BY TINY PELLETS (Villager/Isabelle) OR A ****ING FLIMSY FIREBALL (Mario/Luigi) OR A STUPID LEMON (Megaman). In most matchups REGARDLESS of Gordo usage is so unfair. But of course, egg-spammer, Gordo shouldn’t be buffed.

If you’ve ever used D3 you would know he has the ability to redirect his Gordo with an air dodge, but the window is small. I also found out the A-button is useful in doing so, but the window is too small for both options. So yes.

Dedede had it last game. Other characters the jab-jab combo too. What’s your point?
You sound real salty that someone with an attackable projectile is telling you, someone with an attackable projectile, that your attackable projectile doesn't need major buffs like invincibility. You do realize that my eggs are neutralized by like half the physical attacks in this game, right?

Also, jab -> imagination combos have been neutralized in this game for a reason. If you want that, you have to jab lock them or pop in Smash 4.

I didn't know about bouncing Gordos back with air dodges, honestly, but that doens't make any of these buff ideas any more sane. They are all very much the opposite of sane.
 

Alsyght

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You sound real salty that someone with an attackable projectile is telling you, someone with an attackable projectile, that your attackable projectile doesn't need major buffs like invincibility. You do realize that my eggs are neutralized by like half the physical attacks in this game, right?

Also, jab -> imagination combos have been neutralized in this game for a reason. If you want that, you have to jab lock them or pop in Smash 4.

I didn't know about bouncing Gordos back with air dodges, honestly, but that doens't make any of these buff ideas any more sane. They are all very much the opposite of sane.
I never asked for invincibility nor have I ever asked for any of them to be given to him. I’m pretty passionate with Dedede and I put in as much time as I can with him, but I have to stress the unfairness of his Gordo’s. King Dedede’s Gordo is the only projectile with that kind of weakness.

Wii Fit Trainer’s Header can be reflected with an attack but in most cases, it moves too fast to react in time unless one is already performing an attack. Duck Hunt’s Can is able to be reflected back, but it doesn’t move as far nor as direct as Dedede’s Gordo usually is. Your eggs are merely destroyed and you can whip out another one just like that comparable to Dedede who suffers from much starting and ending lag when performing the move.

I know Smash isn’t supposed to be realistic, but the fact of the matter is that my justification for buffing the Gordo is that it’s a giant metal ball and should not be deflected so easily, realistically, by ice (Ice Climbers) or, again, l e m o n s (Megaman). And also again, the damn thing is susceptible to most, like 99% of things (exaggerating), in the game and moves too fast almost like a homing missile when reflected.

It’s like Sakurai has something against fat characters.
 
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SecretAsianMan

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The gordo shouldn't be invincible or else it would be busted. A 22% flying thing that doesn't have to be charged and lingers is way too good. Mabe like a 4% cap. Also, doing this limits forces you to actually play neutral properly. If Gordos bouncing back is a problem, Don't use gordo. 90% of people who complain about punchable Gordos also spam Gordos In neutral. Use them properly before you complain about it.

Here's a little tip: if Gordos hitting your face bothers you, Short/Full hop Gordo fastfall. Jump serving Gordos makes the trajectory always sail over your head if they punch back, Granted you stay on the ground
 
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chipndip

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I never asked for invincibility nor have I ever asked for any of them to be given to him. I’m pretty passionate with Dedede and I put in as much time as I can with him, but I have to stress the unfairness of his Gordo’s. King Dedede’s Gordo is the only projectile with that kind of weakness.
Yes, because the Gordos also have crazy arcs that bounce around at wildly varying speeds and angles and can be sent back and forth from the enemy, to D3, back to the enemy, and so on. It's a unique case for a unique move. It has a stark weakness and it has character defining strengths. Play around your weaknesses.

Wii Fit Trainer’s Header can be reflected with an attack but in most cases, it moves too fast to react in time unless one is already performing an attack. Duck Hunt’s Can is able to be reflected back, but it doesn’t move as far nor as direct as Dedede’s Gordo usually is. Your eggs are merely destroyed and you can whip out another one just like that comparable to Dedede who suffers from much starting and ending lag when performing the move.
Different moves do different things for different people with different kits. If any of these moves were as damaging as yours when played poorly, the strengths they'd have for being played well would ALSO be increased in turn. It's really not something to get wrapped up in. It's unhealthy thinking that puts down your progress on your own character.


I know Smash isn’t supposed to be realistic, but the fact of the matter is that my justification for buffing the Gordo is that it’s a giant metal ball and should not be deflected so easily, realistically, by ice (Ice Climbers) or, again, l e m o n s (Megaman). And also again, the damn thing is susceptible to most, like 99% of things (exaggerating), in the game and moves too fast almost like a homing missile when reflected.

It’s like Sakurai has something against fat characters.
1) Heavy characters have never been collectively better in a Smash game before this one. If anything, Sakurai and the team threw heavyweights (especially super heavies) a massive bone.

2) Megaman's pellets aren't LITERALLY lemons.

3) Just use the move smarter. If you're fighting Megaman and his pellets are that hard to work around, use a pocket pick. It's a roster of 76. SOMEONE'S gonna give you trouble if you fight the same way for all of them.
 

poobis

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Why would you need dedede buffs? The power of underestimation is way better than some weak buffs that wouldn’t move him up in the tier lists at all. I enjoy playing low tier characters so when I win, I feel like I’m actually good at the game. How dare you guys ask more from sakurai when he’s already given dedede the power of down tilt taunt. S tier taunt.
 

$.A.F.

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Why would you need dedede buffs? The power of underestimation is way better than some weak buffs that wouldn’t move him up in the tier lists at all. I enjoy playing low tier characters so when I win, I feel like I’m actually good at the game. How dare you guys ask more from sakurai when he’s already given dedede the power of down tilt taunt. S tier taunt.
Low tier? Dedede is arguably high tier and mid tier at the very least. Peli, Atomsk, Big D, and Zaki have been tearing up their regions, and even majors.
 
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Peli retired tho. What happened to Big D? I haven’t seen much results from him since last month.

Still great that Atomsk and ZAKI are still going strong
 

WaddleKing

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Mainly qol changes and fixes to things like fsmash whiffing in the air and how Gordo functions in its reflect mechanic.
My most wanted change overall though would be a back throw angle change, even if it doesn't make it KO even around the percents Peach's would, it'd be nice to have a more favorable edgeguarding angle. And I suppose buffing the knockback or other properties of faster options to secure stocks better at the higher percent mark even more.
 
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Mental Surge

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Dedede is still awful. He needs some major changes. The fact that they STILL havent fixed his down tilt issue from smash 4 is hilarious and proves just how much they don't care about balancing in this game lol. Also gordo toss is still trash and can be easily reflected by anything in the game and it never kills when you need it to.
 
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DeDeDIke

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I'd like it if they give D3 super armor for the whole entire duration of the jet hammer move. It sucks every time I use it a small little projectile interupts it. Having the Gordos do more damage and knockback while only being able to be reflected back if a move does over a certain damage would be nice too. Decreasing the endlag on the Super D3 Jump and making him able to move again after canceling it in the air would be great too. I'd be happy if D3 can make it to at least high tier in the future where Ike (my other main) resides in (though it most likely would never happen).
 

WaddleKing

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Dedede is still awful. He needs some major changes. The fact that they STILL havent fixed his down tilt issue from smash 4 is hilarious and proves just how much they don't care about balancing in this game lol. Also gordo toss is still trash and can be easily reflected by anything in the game and it never kills when you need it to.
While I agree he still has some similar issues as before and isn't as good as some make him out to be, you'd have to be crazy to think he's close to as bad as he was in Smash 4, he was horrendous there.
 

Alsyght

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I wish he received some buffs, but they hate our King. I’m glad he wasn’t touched at least.
 

Alsyght

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Why don’t they just tell us everything they did? What are we really going to do with the information besides just ***** and complain about it online?

Wish they gave us hitboxes and **** smh
 

WaddleKing

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Yeah unfortunately if he keeps being neglected and getting nerfs which makes him less consistent while other similarly ranked or below characters get buffed he will become low tier by the end of the game, similarily to in Smash 4 but less bad.
 
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DeDeDIke

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I think a few pros are starting to view him as low tier -.-"
Even if he ends up being low tier at the end, at the least we get to be low tier heroes! At least watching low/mid tiers fight is more interesting than watching top tiers fight (honestly almost all top tiers fight the same way, it gets boring after awhile).
 

Alsyght

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I wish we saw more low tier combos on YouTube like on Dragon Smash or Yeet Smash. At this point, I’m not even impressed cause most of them look the same. I get excited when I see a King Dedede on there, but get sad cause that’s the last one I’m gonna see for a while. Granted, they’re cool, but ¯\_( _)_/¯ #Jaded
 

Gattsu

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I'd really just want side tilt to not have the extendable hurtbox that makes you trade with moves sometimes dudes got a big hammer just cause his arm is extended a little out doesnt mean he should get hit
 

zamasm99

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Crouch needs to face the camera regardless of whether DDD is facing left or right. This would raise him up to top ten at least.
 

Murder Space Dragon

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1. F-Tilt: Make Dedede's forearm intangible during f-tilt's active frames. It should not trade with anything but the most disjointed attacks with its amount of start-up. 3 frames less end lag would also be nice to make it a little safer on shield.

2. Dash Attack: come out 4 frames faster, even when you make a read on a spot dodge or something it's still too slow to actually punish them. It's simply overkill how slow it is.

Also, give it Heavy Armor that requires at least 10% to break from frames 8 to 23. With how punishable it is on block/whiff you shouldn't be able to beat it out with weak hits, and it's fitting you need a strong hit to stop Dedede from falling due to his thiccness.

3. F-Smash: Come out 8 frames faster and increase the shield damage so that uncharged it can break a slightly damaged shield, and charged up slightly it will break a full shield unless the character has a strong shield (i.e. Shield Shulk). This move is plain awful after it was nerfed to not instantly break shields, and that part of it should be brought back in some way while also making it actually work to punish hard reads.

4. Up Smash: 7 frames less end lag and a little more KBG. This move isn't particularly strong or fast so it makes no sense how punishable it is, and it should be a bit stronger being on a super heavy like Dedede.

5. N-Air: Make frame 6 rather than 7, I feel like this move could use a slight buff as it's just as fast as K. Rool's but lacking the Belly Armor, it would help him just a bit in OoS and to break combos.

6. F-air: 1 frame less start-up and end-lag, 2 frames less landing lag, a bit more BKB and a decent bit more KBG. Currently this move is just a worse Bowser f-air in every way and kills really late for a Super Heavy.

7. B-air: probably won't happen, but I'd like to see this move get about 20% more horizontal range in exchange for 2 more frames of landing and end lag. Dedede could simply hold the hammer closer to the end of the handle with both arms, they've made new animations since Ultimate's release so it's absolutely possible and I think would be pretty easy.

8. D-air: 5 Frames less start-up. This move may be disjointed, but its hitbox isn't all that large and it's still very slow. ROB's is faster for crying out loud!

9. Inhale: 3 frames less start up. It's totally fair that it's punishable on whiff considering its reach, but it feels too slow to use as a reflector considering you can only reflect them when you face the right way. This would also help to make it a bit better as an aggressive option.

10. Gordo Throw: 2 frames less start-up, Gordo reflect threshold increased from 2% to 7%. These changes would make Gordo more usable in neutral while still maintaining the weakness of being reflectable and punishable if you use it too close. As is it's way too easy to just throw out literally any hitbox and make Dedede regret trying to use it in neutral.

11. Jet Hammer: Give Dedede Heavy Armor with a 6% threshold once Jet Hammer has begun charging, and in the air during the attack. For the same attack frames it has that Heavy Armor Dedede has 14% Heavy Armor on the grounded version. This will let it punish weak attacks when used cleverly and make it more of an option outside very niche edge guarding situations.
 
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