Social Bubble Man's Jacuzzi (Mega Man Social Thread)

[Knight Dude]

A minor thing, but for another Mega Man X game, MMX and Zero should re-gain ducking. That was something really simple that added a good bit to the game play. Namely for Squid Adler, Dino Rex and the Opening stage in X5. Though it needs to be used in a few more levels. Shark Player and Blaze Heatnix also used ducking in X6. So it wasn't ignored.

The Armor system in X8 was great. Being able to mix and match what you wanted. I'd bring that back but with even more choices if possible. I'd like to see MMX's jumps do damage again, it was pretty useful for enemies above you. Also bring back damaging air dashes for X like the Falcon and Blade armors. Not like the Nova Strike though, it doesn't need to be that strong. There's so much you can do with the armor system, and a lot of cool stuff can be re-used.

Give Zero the multiple weapons like the Hammer and Spear. It'd be cool if X had the Shotokan moves while Zero got Rebellion as a secret weapon or something. Not sure what series Axl could ape for a secret weapon.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Already posted it in the video thread, but it fits here too XD

 

[Nu~]

So I've decided that I decided to pick up mega man!

Getting wins off of matchup inexperience with Pac-Man is getting old. It's rather disheartening to learn that all of the setups I've created with him are possible to get around because he's so over saturated with built-in counterplay and of course, having no grab makes cqc insanely difficult.


Even the most disgusting setup I made just loses to proper DI (even though that's probably my fault for not testing it further and getting caught up in the hype)

But anyways, I feel that I can continue my thirst for technical play with Mega Man. His disruption based playstyle seems intriguing, and I see a lot of room for improvement in all 3 states of his play.

As you can probably tell from the small amount of videos I have on my YouTube channel, I'm a bit of an inventor when it comes to creating setups for the characters I look into so expect a lot of good stuff from me in the future

 

[Mega-Spider]

Nu~ Well I hope you enjoy playing as Megs. If you find some new stuff, be sure to share it with us.

 

[Nu~]

ScAtt tho!?!?!?

 

[Mythzotick]

WELCOME TO UPSET CITY BOYS AND GIRLS!!!!

ScAtt 2-1 Dabuz . In Winners Top 8 at Super Smash Con! The hype is REAL!

 

[Diamond Octobot]

What did he do ?

Edit : Ninjas

 

[Mega-Spider]

Did I just see that? Did ScAtt just upset Dabuz, the most salt-enducing player in Smash 4?

Holy ****, what a time to be alive.

 

[Knight Dude]

I got to check that match out soon.

 

[Funkermonster]

Yesterday, I Finally! scored 1st place at a tournament! Have already been doing well at my least few locals (placed 3rd-4th 3 consecutive times) and I made it to GF twice before, but this is the first time I've ever actually won one, and I can't tell you how satisfying it felt. Especially with having so many of my friends congratulating me like this.

Got a monthly coming this weekend, so the real test as how far I've gone. For now, I celebrate to this short tune:

Also, does anybody have a video of Scatt's upset like you guys are saying? I'd very much like to see it

 

[Mythzotick]

Yesterday, I Finally! scored 1st place at a tournament! Have already been doing well at my least few locals (placed 3rd-4th 3 consecutive times) and I made it to GF twice before, but this is the first time I've ever actually won one, and I can't tell you how satisfying it felt. Especially with having so many of my friends congratulating me like this.

Got a monthly coming this weekend, so the real test as how far I've gone. For now, I celebrate to this short tune:

Also, does anybody have a video of Scatt's upset like you guys are saying? I'd very much like to see it

https://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator2/v/83378376

It's at 05:17:23

Game 1 was a disaster, but ScAtt was able to adapt and Dabuz made a questionable counter pick choice in Duck Hunt as that stage gives Mega Man a lot of room to breathe and Rosalina is a character that is know for suffocating you.

 

[Knight Dude]

Yesterday, I Finally! scored 1st place at a tournament! Have already been doing well at my least few locals (placed 3rd-4th 3 consecutive times) and I made it to GF twice before, but this is the first time I've ever actually won one, and I can't tell you how satisfying it felt. Especially with having so many of my friends congratulating me like this.

Got a monthly coming this weekend, so the real test as how far I've gone. For now, I celebrate to this short tune:

Also, does anybody have a video of Scatt's upset like you guys are saying? I'd very much like to see it

Congrats on winning your first tourney, man. Keep it up.

https://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator2/v/83378376

It's at 05:17:23

Game 1 was a disaster, but ScAtt was able to adapt and Dabuz made a questionable counter pick choice in Duck Hunt as that stage gives Mega Man a lot of room to breathe and Rosalina is a character that is know for suffocating you.

The slide from the ledge was really hype to me. It just looked kind of flashy.

 

[Nu~]

Ouch...that matchup is still crazy difficult

Mr.R 3-0s ScAtt. I think he got two 2 stocks as well

 

[Mega-Spider]

Ouch...that matchup is still crazy difficult

Mr.R 3-0s ScAtt. I think he got two 2 stocks as well

Mr. R is arguably the best Sheik in the world now that ZeRo dropped her. Granted, he only made 13th place, but ZeRo's skill is still admirable. Well, ScAtt did say Void and someone else (who I think is Mr. R), are the only two players to make him feel outclassed as a player, so it's not surprising that he had a tough time.
I'd say getting 5th place in the third largest Smash 4 tournament is a pretty big deal all things considered. ScAtt's moving up in the world after that upset with Dabuz. I don't think he's quite ready for Mr. R, but in due time, he'll get there.

 

[Mythzotick]

I could be wrong, but I think it was only one 2 stock and not two 2 stocks. At one point, ScAtt and Mr. R were even, but then Mr. R just took control and appeared to be in ScAtt's head. That was painful to watch.

IIRC, ScAtt said that Shiek is the one character that you can't play your neutral game.

EDIT: Mega-Spider It was Mr. R and Larry Larr

 

[Mega-Spider]

I could be wrong, but I think it was only one 2 stock and not two 2 stocks. At one point, ScAtt and Mr. R were even, but then Mr. R just took control and appeared to be in ScAtt's head. That was painful to watch.

IIRC, ScAtt said that Shiek is the one character thatyou can't play your neutral game.

What you described there reminds me of the set Abadongo and Ally played. At one point, both were even in terms of games, then Ally just murdered Abadongo during Game 5. It was pretty brutal to watch.

ScAtt plays Ryu and Cloud too, right? How do they fair against Sheik? Maybe it'll help to pull them out during really bad MUs.

 

[Mythzotick]

What you described there reminds me of the set Abadongo and Ally played. At one point, both were even in terms of games, then Ally just murdered Abadongo during Game 5. It was pretty brutal to watch.

ScAtt plays Ryu and Cloud too, right? How do they fair against Sheik? Maybe it'll help to pull them out during really bad MUs.

Cloud is "probably" the best option against Shiek, but if anything, Mr. R and VoiD are just really ******* good and ScAtt isn't quite on their level yet. Still though, the Shiek match up is one that I do not like at all.

Also. Congrats to ScAtt for getting 5th despite not winning a single game in Top 8. If he can just get a lot of time or even some time to spar with the best Shiek players/top 10 caliber level players, I can only see him getting better. He's got the tech skill down. Just needs to be more mentally prepared as the match up is still DOABLE.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Cloud is "probably" the best option against Shiek, but if anything, Mr. R and VoiD are just really ******* good and ScAtt isn't quite on their level yet. Still though, the Shiek match up is one that I do not like at all.

Also. Congrats to ScAtt for getting 5th despite not winning a single game in Top 8. If he can just get a lot of time or even some time to spar with the best Shiek players/top 10 caliber level players, I can only see him getting better. He's got the tech skill down. Just needs to be more mentally prepared as the match up is still DOABLE.

Sheik's a mentally draining character, so I don't blame ScAtt for croaking. The only reason why I wouldn't say ScAtt's on the huge leagues yet is because he's not completely mentally prepared for some MUs like Sheik. If he continues to learn that MU and get mentally prepared in the process, ScAtt has nowhere but up to go.

 

[Knight Dude]

Congrats to ScAtt getting 5th place. And same goes for Nairo winning it all from 9th.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Congrats to ScAtt getting 5th place. And same goes for Nairo winning it all from 9th.

I find it funny that Megs is one of those characters that doesn't get a whole lot of representation because of his complex nature, but when he does get results, they're usually pretty high, like ScAtt earning 5th place along with Ally, the person who won EVO this year.

 

[Knight Dude]

I find it funny that Megs is one of those characters that doesn't get a whole lot of representation because of his complex nature, but when he does get results, they're usually pretty high, like ScAtt earning 5th place along with Ally, the person who won EVO this year.

I think the situation is somewhat similar to Iron Man in Marvel 3. I don't know if Mega Man is comparably as good in the game as Iron Man in Marvel, but both are characters that actually pretty strong. It's just that they have a higher learning curve than the other characters. Maybe Spider-Man would be comparable. But he's a pretty easy character to get a handle on, is still strong, but simply isn't S tier.

 

[Mega-Spider]

I think the situation is somewhat similar to Iron Man in Marvel 3. I don't know if Mega Man is comparably as good in the game as Iron Man in Marvel, but both are characters that actually pretty strong. It's just that they have a higher learning curve than the other characters. Maybe Spider-Man would be comparable. But he's a pretty easy character to get a handle on, is still strong, but simply isn't S tier.

Iron Man was more dominant in Marvel 2 than he was in Marvel 3. In Marvel 3, Iron Man's a great assist character, but he's not very good on point due to his launcher being incredibly awkward to hit with and some of his combos requiring a lot of precise timing.
Spider-Man in Marvel 3 is a more accurate comparison, as his combos in Marvel 3 require a lot of commitment and high execution.

 

[Mythzotick]

I don't know if this has already been discussed yet and if it has I apologize, but is anyone familiar with a fan made game called Mega Man X: Corrupted? I was watching one of Zucco's recent streams and he had a couple of songs from that game in the background while he was playing Smash 4. When I first heard them, I immediately started jamming out and had to find the names (thank you Zucco for USUALLY leaving the name of the music that plays in the background whenever you stream).

I hardly know anything about the game, but what I do know is that it's in the style of Mega Man X1-3, and it's in an alternate timeline that takes place after Mega Man X5.

BTW, here are the music themes that were playing while Zucco was streaming when I was watching.

Only thing I don't like about them is that they're a little repetitive, but it almost doesn't matter when you're on a godly soundfount. I also like this theme a lot too.

Consider myself now interested in this game.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Mythzotick I've known about Corruption for a while, but only in a passing way. I never actually took the time to look at it in depth or anything. I'll do it at some point.

On a side note, I've noticed that the MU thread hasn't been active in a few days? Have people here started school or something? I'm starting next week, so if you don't see me around that often, that's why.

 

[Mythzotick]

Mythzotick I've known about Corruption for a while, but only in a passing way. I never actually took the time to look at it in depth or anything. I'll do it at some point.

On a side note, I've noticed that the MU thread hasn't been active in a few days? Have people here started school or something? I'm starting next week, so if you don't see me around that often, that's why.

Could be it as it is that time of year. I usually like to take my time and let other people participate in the discussion before I weigh my thoughts on it.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Mythzotick Gotta make sure people take care of things in their personal lives. Don't want to be rotting away on Smashboards all the time.

This has got to be one of my favorite songs in the entire franchise. It's a shame that Zero 4 didn't have its own version of this beautiful song.

 

[Mythzotick]

I know this might sound odd, but after watching some of the Mega Man anime openings such as Mega Man 8, Rockman X3, and Rockman X4, it just reminded me how much I appreciate the fact that we were lucky enough to even get anime openings and cutscenes for some of the Mega Man games.

Also, for whatever reason, I've always thought that the lyrics and music from the Rockman X4 opening would've fit better with the Mega Man 8 opening instead and watching the Rockman X3 opening keeps making me think that there is a 90's Mega Man or Mega Man X anime series somewhere out there.

EDIT: Forgot about the Mega Man OVA; which had 3 episodes. Fun fact. Did you know that the Mega Man tv series we were suppose to get was in the style of the Mega Man OVA series? Instead, we got Goku Mega Man; who sounds awesome, but it's not the Mega Man we know and love.

 

[Mega-Spider]

That show was pretty awful for the most part. It had a kick ass theme song despite how repetitive it is, and it is one of the more enjoyable video game cartoons, but it's still not a very good adaptation of the games. Air Man looks ****ing terrifying!

 

[Mythzotick]

It was indeed, but it did have a few highlights like the one you mentioned. Outside of that, the only thing that they almost got 100% right was Dr. Wily's design and voice. Love the memes that came out of it like Pharaoh Man punching Mega Man, Cut Man: "Hey Mega Man! You're a little low on air!" Mega Man: "And you're full of s***!", Guts Man's ***, and of course the famous. Super Fighting Robot, Mega Man!

Still wished though that the Ruby Spears tv show was in the style of the Mega Man OVA: Upon A Star.

EDIT: Don't want to double post. Kameme just now 2-0 Mr. R at Umebura S.A.T. Clutched out game Game 1 with his signature move; killing at 56%. Then won Game 2 convincingly; almost 2 stocked him. Both games were on Smashville. The same stage where Mr. R sd'd twice in two different games back at EVO. No sd's this time though and it still didn't matter.

EDIT 2: Kameme finished 4th. Lost to Dabuz 3-2 in winners semis. Had game 1 against Rosalina, but sd's. Dabuz goes Olimar for the rest of the set. Kameme almost reversed the set and had game 5, but then messed up the footstool combo multiple times; which ended up costing him. Beat Taiheita 3-0 in losers quarters. Then lost to Nairo 3-1 in losers semis.

 

[Mega-Spider]

But Cut Man is full of ****. He thinks he can beat Mega Man? He's one of the easiest Robot Masters in the entire series. That is unless you're playing the Wily Wars version of Mega Man 1, and in that case, he gets a hell of a lot harder.

Looking at Kameme tournament results (congrats to him getting fourth BTW), whenever he doesn't use Megs, he often gets much lower results than he does whenever he does use Megs. I mean, remember that one tournament when he got 97th place? I know the Japanese tournament scene is vastly different than the American scene (the one I'm familiar with) because there's fewer tournaments in Japan and they don't play for cash prizes, meaning that they're much more inconsistent with their results. Still, 4th place is a good result.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

I'll have to watch his set against Dabuz then... Some people don't know how important Item MB, Leaf Shield and Full Charge Shot can be in this MU.
And if a Pikmin gets stuck on you , Rush -> Fastfall UAir > bounce on Rush will usually deal a lot of damage to them.

Edit : Welp, I take back what I said. If Kame didn't SD twice in the 1st round, he would just have won XD (Thanks based NAir Mega Buster hitbox)

About his matches against Dabuz's Olimar, he played the MU pretty much flawlessly. The only times where he went wrong, it was because he tried getting rid of the Pikmins a bit too hard. Jav Hitbox, Slide & Top Spin would have helped a bit (not to mention, it could have taken Dabuz by surprise).

Congrats to Kamemushi.

 

[Mythzotick]

Mega-Spider Actually though, Cut Man is full of puns. Unless that is what you meant of course lol. Anyways...

Mega-Spider Diamond Octobot If Kameme hadn't flubbed the footstool combo in game 5 against Dabuz, he would of more than likely beat KEN in both winners finals and in grand finals as the / match up is a tall mountain to climb for Sonic. Kameme was playing spectacular despite some unfortunate sd's and missed footstool combos. Sometimes, it's the littlest of things that can change an entire outcome.

 

[Mega-Spider]

So... uh... guys? What do you think of Megs being ranked 15th on the second Smash 4 tier list? I think it's a pretty solid spot for him. I'm not sure if he'll maintain his position in high tier, but his results are looking great out there.

Personally, I wish Kirby wasn't ranked 41st, seeing as he's my second main along with Megs. Isn't a tier list made to see how viable they are as a single option? Can someone clear this up for me please?

 

[---]

It's a little high IMO, but with the work players have been putting in recently it's deserved.

I think I had him as #17 on my vote, so I agree about the general placement overall.

 

[Mythzotick]

So... uh... guys? What do you think of Megs being ranked 15th on the second Smash 4 tier list? I think it's a pretty solid spot for him. I'm not sure if he'll maintain his position in high tier, but his results are looking great out there.

Personally, I wish Kirby wasn't ranked 41st, seeing as he's my second main along with Megs. Isn't a tier list made to see how viable they are as a single option? Can someone clear this up for me please?

I think his new spot on the tier list is pretty accurate, although I do think is a "little bit" better than . If anything though, my 2 biggest gripes with the new tier list are how inaccurate some of the character placements are and the way how the letter groups are titled.

isn't the best character, isn't a top 5 character, is the best character; not the 3rd best, should be right next to , are too high, are too low, and is better than .

Also, I really don't like how for this game in particular how we have S, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H. This game has so many characters that can compete and it's insane how well balanced this game is. I think they should of gone the S, A+, A, A-, etc. route. If this were the same as Brawl, then I would be fine with it. But it's not the same. The worst character in S Tier isn't that much better than the best character in A Tier.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Result-wise, Cloud isn't Top 5. Attribute-wise, yeah maybe, but so far, Cloud has yet to win a major. Doesn't help that Cloud players are inconsistent with their results, making even less sense for him to be at 2nd place.

Ryu's also a bit too high. I mean, his attributes are amazing apart from an iffy off stage game, but his results do not speak for his placement. Ryu has yet to place Top 8, let alone Top 16.

I heard someone say that this tier list feels like it was made "pre-summer." Dude, are you kidding? Megs still would have been in D/E tier. Kameme's and ScAtt's results speak for themselves.

 

[Knight Dude]

I think his new spot on the tier list is pretty accurate, although I do think is a "little bit" better than . If anything though, my 2 biggest gripes with the new tier list are how inaccurate some of the character placements are and the way how the letter groups are titled.

isn't the best character, isn't a top 5 character, is the best character; not the 3rd best, should be right next to , are too high, are too low, and is better than .

Also, I really don't like how for this game in particular how we have S, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H. This game has so many characters that can compete and it's insane how well balanced this game is. I think they should of gone the S, A+, A, A-, etc. route. If this were the same as Brawl, then I would be fine with it. But it's not the same. The worst character in S Tier isn't that much better than the best character in A Tier.

I do think Mega Man is pretty damn good. But I feel Ryu is still better than him, but he's a really technical character in Smash. Though he might be better than Villager. Diddy can be handled by Mega Man, but Sheik is a problem, so I would agree she should be higher.

Though honestly, Ganon is a bit underrated. Zelda is definitely the weaker of the two in this game.

I think we've only seen the early stages of what many characters can do, Especially Mega Man, Cloud and Ryu. I have a good feeling about them. Though Cloud being 2nd is a little too high.

 

[Mythzotick]

I do think Mega Man is pretty damn good. But I feel Ryu is still better than him, but he's a really technical character in Smash. Though he might be better than Villager. Diddy can be handled by Mega Man, but Sheik is a problem, so I would agree she should be higher.

Though honestly, Ganon is a bit underrated. Zelda is definitely the weaker of the two in this game.

I think we've only seen the early stages of what many characters can do, Especially Mega Man, Cloud and Ryu. I have a good feeling about them. Though Cloud being 2nd is a little too high.

My reasoning as to why I think Mega Man is at least "slightly better" than Ryu along with why I think some characters are too high and too low are a combination of results, match up spread, valuable match ups, tool kit, neutral state, advantage state, disadvantage state, and theory crafting.

Results wise as of patch 1.1.6., Mega Man for the most part has outplaced Ryu at the most stacked tournaments as a solo/mostly solo main. Tournaments as stacked as CEO 2016, EVO 2016, and Super Smash Con 2016 have placing as high as 13th, 2nd, and 5th while has placed as high as 49th, 9th, and 25th.

Match ups against the supposed top tiers, it's debatable if Ryu even has a winning match up. He either goes even, slightly loses, or loses with being a problem along with other characters like that can camp him out hard. Meanwhile, even though Mega Man has to go through a lot against , he also has key valuable winning match ups against . Diddy Kong and Cloud are arguably the two most popular characters on the competitve scene and Mega Man is one of the few characters in the game that at least slightly beats BOTH of them. As for Sonic, Sonic is one of, if not, the most patience testing character(s) mainly because if he at any point gains the percent lead, you're forced to approach him as he can and will go for a time out and having to listen to spin dash canceling throughout the entire match can get really obnoxious to a lot of people. Once again, Mega Man is one of the few characters that hardly and rarely cares about that because he has the tools to completely change Sonic's main gameplan on how he likes to do things. Let's not forget either that Mega Man is arguably Ryu's worst match up.

Compared to the characters around him mainly the ones in top 10/15, Ryu has one of the weakest neutrals while Mega Man has one of the strongest neutrals. Damage percent and difficulty of killing are indeed very important in how well you can do, but I'd argue that having a really good neutral is just as important, if not, more important than having a strong advantage state. In order to rack up damage and take stocks out, you need to get in on your opponent in order to do any of that and with Ryu having commitment jumps, hardly any disjoints, okayish grab game, slow ground speed, and no threatning/game changing projectile, that can be a problem.

On a side note, I'm very pleased with 's placement. So many people and I mean SO MANY PEOPLE don't think Pikachu is even a top 20 character; let alone top 15. I definitely don't think Pikachu is top 4 like ESAM does, but to say that Pikachu isn't even a top 20 character is getting a little on the ridiculous side. Mega Man match up problem bias aside, I think this character is being slept on right now when he can do so many crazy stuff with his jab, aerials, tilts, thunder jolt, and quick attack.

I play and a lot, so I'm pretty familar with their strengths and weaknesses. Diddy Kong's combo game isn't that amazing compared to the other characters around him, his really slow air speed outside of monkey flip can sometimes be a problem, weak raw kill power, and is vulnerable off stage. Cloud's grab game sucks *** along with most of his ground game and is one of the easiest characters to gimp when he doesn't have limit.

Yeah, can be a scary character if you don't pay attention. All it takes for him to take a stock from you is 4 or 5 hits and standing on the edge with only 1 stock left is just asking to get ganoncided.

 

[Mega-Spider]

The thing about Smash 4 that I like is that unlike Melee or Brawl, the worst characters are still capable of winning. Maybe not at high level, but Jigglypuff in this game is more capable of winning than she was in Brawl. I'm not saying Smash 4's super balanced, because there's still plenty of crazy stuff, but compared to past Smash games, Smash 4 is incredibly balanced. Then again, no fighting game is truly balanced. The day that happens, it'll be a sight to behold.

Mythzotick Pikachu's a character that has a lot going for him, but I'm not sure why people sleep on him. Is he hard to use? Personally, I can't use Pikachu for ****, but that could be just because he doesn't suit my play style, lol.

I also feel that people are sleeping on , like a lot. Now this could be my Kirby fanboy raging here, but he can be a strong counter pick character depending on the situation. With characters like , , , and , Kirby can be surprisingly effective against them. I'm not saying he wins these MUs, but compared to a lot of characters, Kirby does decently against them. I mean, being able to DI out of Mario's BnB D-Throw to U-Tilt combo is a big plus if you ask me. Copy Abilities can also change the tide of battle, mainly in 's, and 's cases. I can agree that Kirby isn't that good of a solo choice, but he's better than 41st. :/

On Ryu, it can be argued that beats him, and she's at 44th place.

 

[Knight Dude]

My reasoning as to why I think Mega Man is at least "slightly better" than Ryu along with why I think some characters are too high and too low are a combination of results, match up spread, valuable match ups, tool kit, neutral state, advantage state, disadvantage state, and theory crafting.

Results wise as of patch 1.1.6., Mega Man for the most part has outplaced Ryu at the most stacked tournaments as a solo/mostly solo main. Tournaments as stacked as CEO 2016, EVO 2016, and Super Smash Con 2016 have placing as high as 13th, 2nd, and 5th while has placed as high as 49th, 9th, and 25th.

Match ups against the supposed top tiers, it's debatable if Ryu even has a winning match up. He either goes even, slightly loses, or loses with being a problem along with other characters like that can camp him out hard. Meanwhile, even though Mega Man has to go through a lot against , he also has key valuable winning match ups against . Diddy Kong and Cloud are arguably the two most popular characters on the competitve scene and Mega Man is one of the few characters in the game that at least slightly beats BOTH of them. As for Sonic, Sonic is one of, if not, the most patience testing character(s) mainly because if he at any point gains the percent lead, you're forced to approach him as he can and will go for a time out and having to listen to spin dash canceling throughout the entire match can get really obnoxious to a lot of people. Once again, Mega Man is one of the few characters that hardly and rarely cares about that because he has the tools to completely change Sonic's main gameplan on how he likes to do things. Let's not forget either that Mega Man is arguably Ryu's worst match up.

Compared to the characters around him mainly the ones in top 10/15, Ryu has one of the weakest neutrals while Mega Man has one of the strongest neutrals. Damage percent and difficulty of killing are indeed very important in how well you can do, but I'd argue that having a really good neutral is just as important, if not, more important than having a strong advantage state. In order to rack up damage and take stocks out, you need to get in on your opponent in order to do any of that and with Ryu having commitment jumps, hardly any disjoints, okayish grab game, slow ground speed, and no threatning/game changing projectile, that can be a problem.

On a side note, I'm very pleased with 's placement. So many people and I mean SO MANY PEOPLE don't think Pikachu is even a top 20 character; let alone top 15. I definitely don't think Pikachu is top 4 like ESAM does, but to say that Pikachu isn't even a top 20 character is getting a little on the ridiculous side. Mega Man match up problem bias aside, I think this character is being slept on right now when he can do so many crazy stuff with his jab, aerials, tilts, thunder jolt, and quick attack.

I play and a lot, so I'm pretty familar with their strengths and weaknesses. Diddy Kong's combo game isn't that amazing compared to the other characters around him, his really slow air speed outside of monkey flip can sometimes be a problem, weak raw kill power, and is vulnerable off stage. Cloud's grab game sucks *** along with most of his ground game and is one of the easiest characters to gimp when he doesn't have limit.

Yeah, can be a scary character if you don't pay attention. All it takes for him to take a stock from you is 4 or 5 hits and standing on the edge with only 1 stock left is just asking to get ganoncided.

You brought up some really good points. I didn't think Ryu's neutral was that much weaker than Mega Man's. Cloud's grabs do suck though.