Britches and Hose Mafia - Game Over!

[Kantrip]

I asked Gova originally if having a gun means they can use it, or if it just means they have it. He didn't tell me.

Normally, cops, other gunsmiths, etc have guns. That's why adumcop made sense to me.

Best thing to do toNight is check my sanity on someone I know doesn't have a gun.

 

[Swiss]

In Dgames rules, only killing roles have guns.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Huh, lemme think on this. Sanity is possible, but something strikes me as off. I'll see what I can come up with after my reread.

 

[Gova]

1. adumbrodeus ()
2. John2k4 ()
4. Sokr ()
5. Kantrip ()
8. Swiss ()
10. Felipe_9595 ()
11. July ()
12. Asdioh ()

Not voting - adumbrodeus, Seikend, Sokr, Kantrip, Swiss, Felipe, July, Asdioh

With 8 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is December 13th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6).

 

[July]

Huh, lemme think on this. Sanity is possible, but something strikes me as off. I'll see what I can come up with after my reread.

Well, one thing that strikes me as off is the fact that Swords said he was roleblocked/his ability didn't work N1 when he claimed yesterDay, but Swiss targeted Sokr N1. Is there a possibility of a redirective role among scum, or a scum and town roleblocker? You tracked Swiss N1 going to Sokr so that checks out, but Swords flipped town so he had no reason to lie. Idk what to make of that yet, but its something that struck me right away after the claims.

 

[Asdioh]

It just keeps getting funner! I'm the only one who hasn't claimed, correct?

I asked gova what the rb situation was. It wasnt in my role pm if that was your question, which I assume it was.

Good answer.

Oh, carry on kant. And rr was my n2. Cmon watcher, close to actually looking solid town for once here!

You roleblocked RR N2? If you're telling the truth, then that is fantastic and I love you.

JTB - VT
Ryker - Town ?
Sworddancer. - Town Census Taker
Soupamario - Town ?
Red Ryu - Mafia ?

John - VT
July - VT
felipe - VT
adum - Town Tracker
Swiss - Town Roleblocker

Is this what we have for claims so far? Can everyone confirm this is true?

I think it's safe to say that Ryker was a VT, mostly due to Tery's play. I have no idea about Soup, and I haven't checked for crumbs. I was guessing he MIGHT have been the doctor or maybe even vig, but after Sokr's claim then nope. I say VT is likely.

First off, I'm going to say that I picked up on some of the things adum was saying to Swiss. However, I thought he was hinting at being cop, not tracker. I also knew he targeted Swiss N1. What I don't know is how Swiss knew he was tracker.

I would like Adum and Swiss to point out exactly what they were communicating to each other. I was hoping they would have already done that by the time I got back. If they can show me examples of townie intent and them trying to get a read on each other, that will make me feel better about them.

I am the Town Gunsmith. I checked adum N1 and got the result that he does have a gun. However, since I thought he was the cop (which has a gun normally) I took it as another confirmation. It was not insanity I was concerned about muddling my results, but the fact that having a gun doesn't confirm alignments.

To my knowledge, Tracker does not have a gun.

The crumbs I showed during my cop gambit are still valid. Additionally, I spelled my role out with the first letter of my first posts in the thread. I'm mobile so I can't quote them now, but they're there.

I targeted Swiss N2, and he ALSO has a gun. I know that roleblocker's don't have guns. Well, mafia ones do. This is why I was suspect of Swiss's claim. He's being dishonest or I'm insane/paranoid.

Well this sucks and ruins everything. Let's just say for now that Swiss has a gun that shoots roleblocks, and Adum has a gun that shoots tracking bugs. That will make things much easier on me.
I believe your claim, by the way. Nice crumbs that I never saw.

Well, one thing that strikes me as off is the fact that Swords said he was roleblocked/his ability didn't work N1 when he claimed yesterDay, but Swiss targeted Sokr N1. Is there a possibility of a redirective role among scum, or a scum and town roleblocker? You tracked Swiss N1 going to Sokr so that checks out, but Swords flipped town so he had no reason to lie. Idk what to make of that yet, but its something that struck me right away after the claims.

I can guarantee that town has a roleblocker, and scum also has a roleblocker (or due to the existence of a vig, I daresay it would more likely be a jailer) or redirector.



I am the (a?) town roleblocker.
I chose No Action on Night 1, as there were no claims in the open and I feared blocking an investigative role.
I roleblocked John2k4 on Night 2.
On Day 1, I confirmed with Gova that successful roleblocks do indeed stop killing roles from killing.


For a moment, let's assume that Swiss and Adum are telling the truth. Let's also assume that our actions weren't messed with by a redirector, roleblocker, ninja etc.

Looking at these claims and the facts:
-RR was killed by Sokr. Fantastic.
-Soup was killed. Scum did this, obviously.
-Adum tracked July and she didn't visit anybody. This checks out with her VT claim.
-Swiss roleblocked Red Ruy, so he wasn't the one that made the kill. You see now why I was relieved he did this?
-I roleblocked John2k4, so he wasn't the one that made the kill. I would have thought that tracking July and Roleblocking John doesn't confirm anything, because RR could have sent in the kill... but if he was roleblocked...


In an ideal world, John2k4 and July would now be confirmed as town.

Gunsmith claim messes with that. It is entirely possible that he is paranoid to prevent clearing situations just like this one.

 

[Asdioh]

Either Swiss is lying scum, or this game has 2 town roleblockers (which is entirely possible) and has as cool of a setup as it sounds.

And upon further speculation, having an "insane" gunsmith in a partial flip setup doesn't sound very nice. Then again, town seems to have some pretty strong roles so it might be balanced enough that way...

 

[Asdioh]

I guess people don't mafia after 6:15 PM on Mondays

 

[John2k4]

Of course we do, we just don't do much.
(8:41 PM)

 

[Asdioh]

John, what are your thoughts on the massclaim? Who's lying?

 

[John2k4]

I'm inclined to say either you or Swiss; having two Town Roleblockers in a small game just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Asdioh]

I can accept that, but if I said you should man up and choose one specifically (nevermind the fact that I said we could both be telling the truth) who would you lynch toDay?

 

[John2k4]

That's a tough one; you have both been playing pretty good. If I had to choose one, I'd say Swiss, since even earlier yesterDay, I didn't feel too good about him.

 

[Asdioh]

That's a tough one; you have both been playing pretty good. If I had to choose one, I'd say Swiss, since even earlier yesterDay, I didn't feel too good about him.

mafia would be more fun after drinking if people would actually POST

seriously guys wtf

kantrip you ESPECIALLY you're always up at late'o'clock

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I was at a dress rehearsal for a play I'm in and it ran late.

I want to lynch John toDay, check to see if I'm insane or paranoid or anything, and act on that.

Actually maybe not John I don't know. I'm almost inclined to say Swiss/RR/adum is a possibility, and the way RR interacted with them (or avoided doing so) is of note in this situation.

I want Swiss to lay out EXACTLY how he knew both adum's exact role AND his N1 target.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright let's hold the phone here.

If we were to assume Swiss and Asdioh are both being honest, we've got

Swiss clear
Asdioh clear
John clear

If we also say adum is being honest, we have adum and July clear as well. I believe Sokr's claim completely.

This leaves felipe and only felipe as the one who sent in the NK.

@adum: What do you think? Is it felipe? If not, who's lying?

@Asdioh: tell me what you think about town having three investigative roles.

@Swiss: Two town roleblockers? Can this be true? And with these partial flips, too?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Wow, wanna reread first but at present, but gut is swiss over asdioh.

 

[Swiss]

But alright, lets see what you can get swiss.


Why don't you visit sokr for a bit, thoughts?

He crumbed I visited Sokr.

Oh, Adum, you mentioned something under the radar to me earlier which made me "how the **** did he..." face. I'll do what you requested. If I can. Which I'm not saying I can. Because I definitely can't. No way. Is Swiss crumbing? I still can't tell. Let's hope he can WIFOM his way out of it. Not that he's letting you guys know it'll be WIFOM, because it'll definitely be true. Whatever he says. Unless he later says he was lying.

Right, good.

K.

Crumb I understood it, but lean away from saying I visited him, and more towards saying I will with my ability (since he may be flavour whatsitsface) to see how he takes it.

@Swiss: I'll give you until next day phase to give me convincing reasons, dude is just giving me horribad vibes a mile long.

Adum basically says "oh, u cop then?"

And no, i'm not claiming. We're waiting until swiss drops into the thread, and if he's half as smart as he think he is, he already knows that's bs and that makes kantrip scum.

"Swiss don't be dumb, you know I know you know"

Dear god swiss, reread my posts to you. You should already know already know why kantrip being a cop is pretty much impossible. I'd like to get more out of this then a solid kantrip read.

etc

This goes on for a while - just read it yourselves. I posted saying "I got what I needed from the gambit" to admit I wasn't cop to him, since I believe he was leaning towards that.

Also implied I RB'd Swords N1, to see if Adum really did know I visited Sokr (few pages back).

@Swiss: Two town roleblockers? Can this be true? And with these partial flips, too?

Two town roleblockers is possible, albeit bizarre. With the partial flips it can make sense balance wise, as night actions on both sides are more 'random' (no-one really knows what PR's are dead) - so the more blocking, the less random and more day orientated the game is.


Probbaly more stuff for me to say, but at work now.

 

[Swiss]

Wow, wanna reread first but at present, but gut is swiss over asdioh.

I'd be impressed if you managed not to believe me, considering the ****ing morse code we've been talking in.

Scum tracker much?

LYNCH 'IMMMM

 

[July]

Alright, I believe Sokr's claim. I also believe Kantrip's claim, although not sure what to make of his results.

However, I'm not as optimistic as everyone else about the two roleblockers. I don't see a scenario where two town roleblockers make sense- feasibly that means town could roleblock two scum, Kantrip could investigate one, and Adum could track one, it just seems like too much.

Also wtf with there being two roleblockers and neither roleblocked, or at least said they roleblocked Swords, N1. Swiss obviously couldn't have if we are to believe Adum, which I do, then there is either

1) A scum roleblocker in addition to 2 town roleblockers
2) A scum redirector that redirected Swiss' roleblock to Swords
3) Asdioh is lying and he roleblocked Swords N1

If you believe that both roleblockers are legit then the second option makes teh most sense imo. If not then the third option makes the most sense imo, but then I have to accept that my town read on Asdioh is all wrong and that feels all weird and wrong, Asdioh as scum.

@Kantrip: I don't see the need for all the Swiss/Adum morse code in thread if they are both scum, I think if they were both scum it would be hard to fake how it was basically like pulling teeth for them to communicate what they thought they know about each other and to stage all the awkward sounding conversations JUST for appearance for town.

 

[Swiss]

I did not realise no-one admitted to blocking Swords. Good point.

 

[July]

1. adumbrodeus- Tracker; tracked Swiss N1, me N2
2. John2k4- VT
4. Sokr- Vig/Medic; vigged Ryker N1, vigged RR N2
5. Kantrip- Town gunsmith; N1 checked Adum and found gun, N2 checked Swiss and found gun
8. Swiss- Roleblocker; N1- Sokr, N2- RR
10. Felipe_9595- VT
11. July- VT
12. Asdioh- Roleblocker; N1- No action, N2-John

Adum’s tracking results check out with Swiss and myself, Sokr’s results check out (if we assume that scum also targeted Ryker N1, which makes sense). Kantrip’s results do not check out, but his results line up with his behavior D2 in suspecting Adum, and if he were scum I don’t see why he would claim he found guns on two people and not push them as scum for that; he’s been much more open to discussions of sanity and paranoia, and it makes me think he actually is insane/paranoid, but not likely scum. Swiss n1 roleblock is confirmed by Adum. Felipe has had no actions taken on him, and no evidence he has taken any actions. Asdioh claims he had no action N1, and targeted John N2. Yet we know there was a roleblock on Swords N1 :-/

Asdioh as scum roleblocker makes sense in theory. Admitting he targeted Swords N1 after Swiss kept talking about him possibly being vig could look bad, so claiming no action is safer. However in practice I have trouble seeing Asdioh/RR scumteam, Asdioh was definitely more in favor of RR yesterDay than the Swords lynch.

Sorry for the possibly incoherent rant, cold medicine is kicking my ***, but I was just trying to organize claims/night actions and trying to deal with the possibility of Asdioh as scum.

 

[July]

I did not realise no-one admitted to blocking Swords. Good point.

What are your thoughts on this? Which of the scenarios I suggested do you think is most likely (unless you see some other possibility that I haven't considered)?

 

[Swiss]

I need to think.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yea, swiss you definitely gave me too much credit, that was just a move to a compromise lynch because I've been having issues with being unwilling to compromise and letting stupid lynches happen because of it.

My reason for believing that his claim was false was because a tracker/cop combo is terrible balance-wise, especially in a small.

 

[Swiss]

Guess I'm the only smart person in Dgames.

 

[Asdioh]

Wow, wanna reread first but at present, but gut is swiss over asdioh.

I like how vague this is. Gut is Swiss is _______ over me?

 

[felipe_9595]

Kantrip, your logic is ****ed up, you are assuming 3 people are being honest.

 

[Asdioh]

I got sidetracked, in a good way.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13709834#post13709834 Swiss quoted this post, and I just went back and read from there until D3. I haven't read the most recent posts on this page yet.

If anybody actually doubts my roleblocker claim (Adum...???) here are some mentions of roleblocking I made on D2, after Sword said he was roleblocked:

Sword, assuming that:
1. you're town
2. mafia roleblocked you

What mafia team/members do you think would be most likely to roleblock you of all players?
What players should we look at, if you flip town?

Maybe not "mafia" roleblocker but I would hope "scum" roleblocker. If he seems 'blatantly not VT' then I would sincerely hope that a town roleblocker, or whatever you're implying, wouldn't be targeting him unless they have a really strong scumread on him.

Since when have you seen Sword as blatantly not VT, Sokr?

Alright. So in a 13-player game, if there's an indy, it's almost definitely going to be 1 max (unless there's something SILLY like indy lovers or something)
If it wasn't mafia, you think he might have been roleblocked by some town role, since he would hypothetically be the only indy?

In other words, if it wasn't mafia, and he was the only indy, then all that leaves is town to roleblock him. I'm just saying I think it's more likely that mafia roleblocked him, if he is indeed town.

Notice how much emphasis I put on the roleblocker being mafia, because I wanted to make it clear it wasn't me.

Cool stuff, Swiss.

vig RR.

Good job Sokr :3

 

[Asdioh]

Hiya Swiss. I'll go eat breakfast and shower and wait for your thoughts.

 

[Swiss]

Give me 5hrs or so.

I can only sneak in quick quips and thoughts whilst at work.

 

[Kantrip]

felipe don't be stupid.

I am not suggesting they're all being honest.

By the way, it's probably adum/July.

 

[Kantrip]

Think about it. Adum doesn't need to be a tracker. He got Swiss to target Sokr (I think that's what the morse code crap is telling me), and then he (or July or RR) is a redirector and redirected Swiss's block to Swords. Sokr and scum both targeted Ryker and we have no proof the roleblock went through to Sokr. I'm betting it didn't.

July is claiming VT and adum is "clearing" her by confirming she didn't target anyone. This seems a bit risky as scummates.

There's the fact that town has three investigatives if adum isn't lying. Census, gunsmith and tracker. 3 investigatives, 2 roleblockers, and a vig/doc hybrid for town? No.


Another option, working with this scum redirecting Swiss's roleblock to Swords, is a bus driver who swapped actions performed on Sokr and Swords N1.

I am inclined to believe Asdioh, as his crumbs check out and his play has been good with me.

@Swiss: Do you believe Asdioh as well? If you're town and you do, you will know right now that your action being redirected is likely.

But wait... Adum said that Swiss targeted Sokr. If adum is Town, then he would not have gotten this result. Scum tracka?

Mafia Tracker
Mafia Redirector
Mafia ???

 

[Kantrip]

Eww that last paragraph looks like bad logic. There's more to it, I'm just typing from an ipod so it takes forever and thoughts become detached.

 

[Sokr]

Scum could have chosen to not kill hoping to lead any town roleblockers into believing they got scum. And swiss' roleblock could have been redirected to Sword.

 

[Kantrip]

Your first point is unlikely as scum didn't know there were town roleblockers D1. Your second point is what I have been saying.

What makes this difficult is that we don't know if you were roleblocked or not. Your target did die, but scum had no kill and it's possible they killed Ryker.

 

[Sokr]

Your first point is unlikely as scum didn't know there were town roleblockers D1. Your second point is what I have been saying.

What makes this difficult is that we don't know if you were roleblocked or not. Your target did die, but scum had no kill and it's possible they killed Ryker.

Scum could have been making a gambit and assuming there were town roleblockers. My second point wasn't actually a second point but all one scenario.

 

[Kantrip]

No killing N1 on purpose? They'd need a reason. What would lead scum to believe there is a town roleblocker?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Think about it. Adum doesn't need to be a tracker. He got Swiss to target Sokr (I think that's what the morse code crap is telling me), and then he (or July or RR) is a redirector and redirected Swiss's block to Swords. Sokr and scum both targeted Ryker and we have no proof the roleblock went through to Sokr. I'm betting it didn't.

July is claiming VT and adum is "clearing" her by confirming she didn't target anyone. This seems a bit risky as scummates.

There's the fact that town has three investigatives if adum isn't lying. Census, gunsmith and tracker. 3 investigatives, 2 roleblockers, and a vig/doc hybrid for town? No.


Another option, working with this scum redirecting Swiss's roleblock to Swords, is a bus driver who swapped actions performed on Sokr and Swords N1.

I am inclined to believe Asdioh, as his crumbs check out and his play has been good with me.

@Swiss: Do you believe Asdioh as well? If you're town and you do, you will know right now that your action being redirected is likely.

But wait... Adum said that Swiss targeted Sokr. If adum is Town, then he would not have gotten this result. Scum tracka?

Mafia Tracker
Mafia Redirector
Mafia ???

Kantrip that logic is horrific and you should feel bad. Tracker tracks to whoever you visited and there's no way swiss wouldn't have mentioned if he got redirected.

 

[Swiss]

I TRIED TO TARGET RR N1.

Owaitno.