Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[lightdasher]

8-player Smash limitations on Wii U.

****ing source right now

 

[ROBnWatch]

Wolf is an obvious candidate, yes, but I don't think Ice Climbers are, solely due to the technical limitations--probably now both because of 3DS limitations and 8-player Smash limitations on Wii U. It's a shame, really...but I don't see how they would get around it for Smash 4.

-__-

THEY. WORKED. FINE. ON. THE. WII. U.

WHY CAN NOBODY UNDERSTAND THIS?!?!?!?!

AND THEY HAVE ALL THE TIME EVER TO FIX ANY PROBLEMS ON THE 3DS!!!!!!

UGH!!!!!!!!

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

-__-

THEY. WORKED. FINE. ON. THE. WII. U.

WHY CAN NOBODY UNDERSTAND THIS?!?!?!?!

AND THEY HAVE ALL THE TIME EVER TO FIX ANY PROBLEMS ON THE 3DS!!!!!!

UGH!!!!!!!!

Preach to'em

 

[ROBnWatch]

Preach to'em

I'm just SOOOOOOO SICK OF THESE DUMB REASONS! They're one of the most wanted veterans to come back, and all the arguments for them not to return are either irrelevant (8 player Smash on the Wii U), or can be resolved (3DS problems). EVERYTHING CONCERNING THEM HAS A SOLUTION!!!

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

I'm just SOOOOOOO SICK OF THESE DUMB REASONS! They're one of the most wanted veterans to come back, and all the arguments for them not to return are either irrelevant (8 player Smash on the Wii U), or can be resolved (3DS problems). EVERYTHING CONCERNING THEM HAS A SOLUTION!!!

Amen

 

[ROBnWatch]

Amen

Thank you. Lol.

It's just...if this roster is missing one thing, it's ICies. Other than that, this game is the best Smash game in the franchise. And if/when we get Wolf, that's just an awesome bonus for me.

Without ICies, Brawl still beats this game (Ya, I said it). Simple as that.

However, all problems concerning them can be easily fixed, and I am almost CERTAIN that we will get the announcement of ICies DLC within the next year.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

Thank you. Lol.

It's just...if this roster is missing one thing, it's ICies. Other than that, this game is the best Smash game in the franchise. And if/when we get Wolf, that's just an awesome bonus for me.

Without ICies, Brawl still beats this game (Ya, I said it). Simple as that.

However, all problems concerning them can be easily fixed, and I am almost CERTAIN that we will get the announcement of ICies DLC within the next year.

Any time, True, they were the only TWO TIME vet to be cut. There to cute to not be in.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Any time, True, they were the only TWO TIME vet to be cut. There to cute to not be in.

They're also a staple to the franchise. It's not Smash without them! It's almost like cutting someone from the original 12. It's basically just under that.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

Well, I want to start a discussion so I have a question for you guys. What would you do to save space and cut some corners for ICies return?

I would remove Nana's percent-CPU-level thing and just make her AI between 5-9. And while this next change isn't to save space, this victory

would be a lot cooler if they added the flag from their game.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

They're also a staple to the franchise. It's not Smash without them! It's almost like cutting someone from the original 12. It's basically just under that.

Exactly

 

[ROBnWatch]

Well, I want to start a discussion so I have a question for you guys. What would you do to save space and cut some corners for ICies return?

I would remove Nana's percent-CPU-level thing and just make her AI between 5-9. And while this next change isn't to save space, this victory

would be a lot cooler if they added the flag from their game.

I have no idea on all this technical stuff, lol!

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

I have no idea on all this technical stuff, lol!

Lol, well just say changes in general if you have any

 

[ROBnWatch]

Lol, well just say changes in general if you have any

Why fix something that's not broken?

ICies are fine as is, and I hope they can be put into this game as close to their original character as possible.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

Why fix something that's not broken?

ICies are fine as is, and I hope they can be put into this game as close to their original character as possible.

Lol, I like the way you think

 

[ROBnWatch]

Lol, I like the way you think

Why thank you. Lol. But seriously, doing anything drastic to them destroys the character (AKA making them 1 Climber).

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

Dang, this tread is booming suddenly. I'll just quickly throw out a couple thoughts I have.

They could make it so Popo only gets hit.

I've been wondering how the properties of two congealed Ice Climbers could be. Would Popo be going "Ow ow ow!" while Nana is just like, "Ah, it's a glorious day." or maybe they both have damage animation when their shared hitbox is attacked? And how will it work when they're KO'd? Would the inability to desynch be easier to implement hardware-wise on the 3DS than situational desynching? I'd have to try examples of it on my own to properly visualize it.

I have no idea if it's been brought up here or not, but is it a possibility that the Ice Climbers could be New 3DS exclusive? If the New 3DS can run Xenoblade, then I have a hard time believing it couldn't run Ice Climbers. Then, Sakurai's whole "both versions must have same characters" thing won't get in the way. Though, any way they get in is fine by me. I don't care if it is just one climber and 4 of the color swaps are Popo while 4 are Nana.

I feel like I've heard this before in the exact same words... I'm not sure if it would be too complicated it would be for them to be N3DS exclusive. I just own a regular XL so that would actually bug me personally. If they had to be exclusive in order to be a duo, I think Wii U exclusive would be the better choice considering they had a "golden" (up to perspective) opportunity to be Wii U exclusive if it weren't for Sakurai's roster rule. But I still have remaining faith that they can be compatible on both versions.

I guess I could tolerate a solo Ice Climber, just this once... as long as they are back to normal by the next game. I'd still personally like to see them fix the problem with a duo Ice Climbers more though.

Agreed. I'm in the 1 Ice Climber > 0 group of people. Isn't having Nana and Popo in Smash 4 one of our primary goals in the first place? Another being getting them to have their gameplay as close to traditional as possible. I find it crazy when people say, "I'd rather have no Ice Climbers at all than have a solo one because it tarnishes their image beyond redemption." Yes, it wouldn't be as nice as having 2, but I just want them back in some form. It would utterly suck to have no constellation for our efforts whatsoever and all this support and all of us hanging on to our cause would be time wasted with nothing to show for it. A solo Ice Climber, if all else fails, couldn't be that bad. It's better than years of despair and depression and feeling like outcasts to Smash.

I support the Ice Climbers for DLC. Here is my ballot contribution:

Nice. I wish I saved my Ballot entry.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Charizard cut next iteration, and maybe, MAYBE, Mewtwo as well.

NOOOO! I don't want Mewtwo to be cut AGAIN! I've already waited 7 years between Brawl and the Mewtwo DLC and I want its slot secured tightly! Yeah, before clamoring onto Mewtwo's return, the **** hit the fan when the Ice Climbers were cut because I was still waiting for Mewtwo and at the time, I felt like it was all my fault for not paying closer attention to the Ice Climbers and that my anxiety for Mewtwo caused one of my mains to get cut. But that's all in the past and I'm more hopeful now. And I'm trying to take healthier approaches for when I OCD on my favorite characters.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Dang, this tread is booming suddenly. I'll just quickly throw out a couple thoughts I have.

I've been wondering how the properties of two congealed Ice Climbers could be. Would Popo be going "Ow ow ow!" while Nana is just like, "Ah, it's a glorious day." or maybe they both have damage animation when their shared hitbox is attacked? And how will it work when they're KO'd? Would the inability to desynch be easier to implement hardware-wise on the 3DS than situational desynching? I'd have to try examples of it on my own to properly visualize it.

I feel like I've heard this before in the exact same words... I'm not sure if it would be too complicated it would be for them to be N3DS exclusive. I just own a regular XL so that would actually bug me personally. If they had to be exclusive in order to be a duo, I think Wii U exclusive would be the better choice considering they had a "golden" (up to perspective) opportunity to be Wii U exclusive if it weren't for Sakurai's roster rule. But I still have remaining faith that they can be compatible on both versions.

Agreed. I'm in the 1 Ice Climber > 0 group of people. Isn't having Nana and Popo in Smash 4 one of our primary goals in the first place? Another being getting them to have their gameplay as close to traditional as possible. I find it crazy when people say, "I'd rather have no Ice Climbers at all than have a solo one because it tarnishes their image beyond redemption." Yes, it wouldn't be as nice as having 2, but I just want them back in some form. It would utterly suck to have no constellation for our efforts whatsoever and all this support and all of us hanging on to our cause would be time wasted with nothing to show for it. A solo Ice Climber, if all else fails, couldn't be that bad. It's better than years of despair and depression and feeling like outcasts to Smash.

Nice. I wish I saved my Ballot entry.

NOOOO! I don't want Mewtwo to be cut AGAIN! I've already waited 7 years between Brawl and the Mewtwo DLC and I want its slot secured tightly! Yeah, before clamoring onto Mewtwo's return, the **** hit the fan when the Ice Climbers were cut because I was still waiting for Mewtwo and at the time, I felt like it was all my fault for not paying closer attention to the Ice Climbers and that my anxiety for Mewtwo caused one of my mains to get cut. But that's all in the past and I'm more hopeful now. And I'm trying to take healthier approaches for when I OCD on my favorite characters.

Couldn't they make it so they are always connected and they share the same hitbox. I feel like that would make them work on the 3DS.

edit - @ ROBnWatch Yes they will remove the two most popular pokemon of all time and remove a character (Mewtwo) that fans have wanted back for 7 years.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Dang, this tread is booming suddenly. I'll just quickly throw out a couple thoughts I have.

I've been wondering how the properties of two congealed Ice Climbers could be. Would Popo be going "Ow ow ow!" while Nana is just like, "Ah, it's a glorious day." or maybe they both have damage animation when their shared hitbox is attacked? And how will it work when they're KO'd? Would the inability to desynch be easier to implement hardware-wise on the 3DS than situational desynching? I'd have to try examples of it on my own to properly visualize it.

I feel like I've heard this before in the exact same words... I'm not sure if it would be too complicated it would be for them to be N3DS exclusive. I just own a regular XL so that would actually bug me personally. If they had to be exclusive in order to be a duo, I think Wii U exclusive would be the better choice considering they had a "golden" (up to perspective) opportunity to be Wii U exclusive if it weren't for Sakurai's roster rule. But I still have remaining faith that they can be compatible on both versions.

Agreed. I'm in the 1 Ice Climber > 0 group of people. Isn't having Nana and Popo in Smash 4 one of our primary goals in the first place? Another being getting them to have their gameplay as close to traditional as possible. I find it crazy when people say, "I'd rather have no Ice Climbers at all than have a solo one because it tarnishes their image beyond redemption." Yes, it wouldn't be as nice as having 2, but I just want them back in some form. It would utterly suck to have no constellation for our efforts whatsoever and all this support and all of us hanging on to our cause would be time wasted with nothing to show for it. A solo Ice Climber, if all else fails, couldn't be that bad. It's better than years of despair and depression and feeling like outcasts to Smash.

Nice. I wish I saved my Ballot entry.

NOOOO! I don't want Mewtwo to be cut AGAIN! I've already waited 7 years between Brawl and the Mewtwo DLC and I want its slot secured tightly! Yeah, before clamoring onto Mewtwo's return, the **** hit the fan when the Ice Climbers were cut because I was still waiting for Mewtwo and at the time, I felt like it was all my fault for not paying closer attention to the Ice Climbers and that my anxiety for Mewtwo caused one of my mains to get cut. But that's all in the past and I'm more hopeful now. And I'm trying to take healthier approaches for when I OCD on my favorite characters.

Couldn't they make it so they are always connected and they share the same hitbox. I feel like that would make them work on the 3DS.

edit - @ ROBnWatch Yes they will remove the two most popular pokemon of all time and remove a character (Mewtwo) that fans have wanted back for 7 years.

That's why it's a huge maybe. I mean, we're gonna have to move on from Gen 1 eventually, and when that time comes, it seems obvious (to me) that Pikachu and Jigglypuff will eventually be the only Gen. 1 representatives left.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

I don't think I and many others could handle these characters being cut again.

These characters were preached for. They should be staples now.
Mewtwo is the only Melee Pokémon in the series to make a return.
The only Melee Pokémon. Not to mention he's a great character and an actual legendary Pokémon on thee Roster.

Lucas is a second Mother Rep that as we know he can use many assets from Ness and is still completely unique. Not to mention he has an extremely strong fan-base.
Roy I am very indifferent too. He is an extremely popular vet more known for his Melee appearance than his actually games appearance. I never grew up with Roy like I did with my veterans but I support Roy through and through. In this iteration he's fun as all hell to play as and I hope the main 3 Fire Emblem boys stick around next iteration.
I hope the Ice Climbers return soon.
The reactions will be glorious on both sides.
People will rejoice as their mains return. And Haters will scream as they thought this was the Smash to leave them out.
My main support is on ice Climbers with Wolf being slightly less important due to his extremely high chances.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I don't think I and many others could handle these characters being cut again.

These characters were preached for. They should be staples now.
Mewtwo is the only Melee Pokémon in the series to make a return.
The only Melee Pokémon. Not to mention he's a great character and an actual legendary Pokémon on thee Roster.

Lucas is a second Mother Rep that as we know he can use many assets from Ness and is still completely unique. Not to mention he has an extremely strong fan-base.
Roy I am very indifferent too. He is an extremely popular vet more known for his Melee appearance than his actually games appearance. I never grew up with Roy like I did with my veterans but I support Roy through and through. In this iteration he's fun as all hell to play as and I hope the main 3 Fire Emblem boys stick around next iteration.
I hope the Ice Climbers return soon.
The reactions will be glorious on both sides.
People will rejoice as their mains return. And Haters will scream as they thought this was the Smash to leave them out.
My main support is on ice Climbers with Wolf being slightly less important due to his extremely high chances.

Oh it'll be a glorious day when those haters realize they were wrong. Ha ha!

 

[Marigi174]

I've just realised another reason why Sakurai would be less than willing to make Nana an item (aside from fan isolisation).

It'd be promoting the objectification of women.

... please don't hate me for that terrible pun...

 

[FancySmash]

So, as of 7:46 EST, the Rate their Chances thread has an updated picture of the top 10 chances, so Ice Climbers are no longer on it.
That said, they haven't updated the top 10 want's to include them at 3rd place. I'm feeling a bit miffed!


Kidding, kidding of course. I'm sure that over at the Rate their Chances thread, they are working hard to get things up to date, and are just a bit behind in updating the top 10 want.

I don't know why, but I felt like posting this anyways. Maybe to prove that the patience of an Ice Climbers supporter is a strong one.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

So, as of 7:46 EST, the Rate their Chances thread has an updated picture of the top 10 chances, so Ice Climbers are no longer on it.
That said, they haven't updated the top 10 want's to include them at 3rd place. I'm feeling a bit miffed!


Kidding, kidding of course. I'm sure that over at the Rate their Chances thread, they are working hard to get things up to date, and are just a bit behind in updating the top 10 want.

I don't know why, but I felt like posting this anyways. Maybe to prove that the patience of an Ice Climbers supporter is a strong one.

Thanks for the info!

 

[FancySmash]

Thanks for the info!

Oh, you're welcome!
I don't understand myself why I thought this was an issue to be addressed. Simply, it's probably a matter of them being a bit behind in things. They have a lot to do over in Rate their Chances.

Maybe I'm just being too paranoid.

 

[Marigi174]

Oh wow Smashboards just go and break my alerts then ;;;;

Anyway, I am almost certain that they are just behind. Lets cross our fingers :]

 

[Akira213]

As much as I'd love them back the fact they weren't one of the first DLC characters when they were already finished on the Wii U doesn't do a lot to inspire confidence. At this point I'm just hoping to see them in Smash 5.

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

As much as I'd love them back the fact they weren't one of the first DLC characters when they were already finished on the Wii U doesn't do a lot to inspire confidence. At this point I'm just hoping to see them in Smash 5.

Well, they likely have a second team woking on Ice Climbers mainly cause 3DS. I mean that's gonna take a large amount of time. Plus we gonna need other DLC fighters in the mean time.

 

[Akira213]

Well, they likely have a second team woking on Ice Climbers mainly cause 3DS. I mean that's gonna take a large amount of time. Plus we gonna need other DLC fighters in the mean time.

As much as I'd like to think they care that deeply about bringing us the Ice Climbers I don't think there being an entire separate DLC team dedicated to Ice Climbers fits the definition of "likely". I figure if we do get them it will be a result of the ballot (this also seems unlikely to me).

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

As much as I'd like to think they care that deeply about bringing us the Ice Climbers I don't think there being an entire separate DLC team dedicated to Ice Climbers fits the definition of "likely". I figure if we do get them it will be a result of the ballot (this also seems unlikely to me).

I would guess that veterans get the most priority in DLC, and I remember hearing somewhere that each character got a team so they could produce characters quicker. But in the end I can't help but feel you're right...

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

As much as I'd like to think they care that deeply about bringing us the Ice Climbers I don't think there being an entire separate DLC team dedicated to Ice Climbers fits the definition of "likely". I figure if we do get them it will be a result of the ballot (this also seems unlikely to me).

Well, we haven't gotten Wolf yet and they just released their experimental "release DLC characters in pairs/groups" type of release. If they took the time to cater to fans of other veteran characters, that alone is a reason for why we shouldn't be singled out. It still strikes me odd why they chose Roy and Ryu among all others after Lucas? I still don't understand or know the reasoning behind that. Ice Climbers have every reason to be in Smash 4.

"I don't want to sound like a **** or anything, but I could care less if I have Ice Climbers on my 3DS as long as they are on my Wii U like they were supposed to be. If Ice Climbers don't come back to Smash 4 at all even after all this, then I will NEVER forgive the 3DS version for existing!" - Evil falcomaster925

They should come back one way or another and it would be heartbreaking if our efforts were for nothing. So you can relax, ignore my evil counterpart, and we will help remedy your worries.

 

[Flor@]

I don't really know what to say at this point any more. It's all pretty much been said. Some say that the IC supporters aren't very active. But I mean, what else is there to say, aside from when we actually get news? There are no real hints at ICs, only things that can be inferred from the information that a lot of us are more than familiar with. With that said, ICies may still have a decent shot, or they could really just be a pipedream at this point. We haven't heard anything recently regarding ICies. But DLC is definitely a thing, and Roy got in. ROY. But 3DS limits, character roster equality, etc. We all pretty much know it could go either way and not be incredibly surprising. Meaning either:

1) ICies are definitely not going to be a part of Smash 4 after various new characters get in, or Sakurai makes an announcement regarding their for-sure cut, or both.

2) ICies get in. It was probably a hard job. But we're all thankful. We don't know what it took, if they actually made it in as they originally were, but we're thankful. (I honestly doubt Sakurai would... 'recreate' a beloved veteran in a way that's totally different from its original design... unless he's fine with that weird sort of character continuity going from Brawl, to Smash 4, to Smash 5, given that he may or may not direct Smash 5)

Neither of these results would be that unpredictable, let's admit it.

Meh, who knows. Sakurai probably feels torn regarding how on earth the ICies could come back to Smash, whether or not he's too passionate about them himself. There's a fanbase that certainly has a presence throughout the community that he is aware of. So sheesh, what solution could there be, if accommodating for the 3DS really isn't an option for the ICies?

Goodness, this specific cut has to be the most dramatic one there ever was. Unique two-time vets. I wonder if Ryu, Roy, and Lucas are there to make up for it. Maybe from now on, it's just new, fresh additions to the roster. It would make total sense. But here's to more character reveals with same-day DLC releases. <3

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

It seems nearly every option for Ice Climbers will leave someone unhappy. I'm gonna restate and breakdown potential results to each thing I mentioned in Rate their Chances:

1. Traditional Ice Climbers on both Wii U and Nintendo 3DS: The technical miracle it seems. If it were possible, if given enough time, Sakurai would surely shoot for this one first and foremost. It would be the ultimate way to disprove nonbelievers by showing that they are possible on both versions the way they've always been. Nothing else to say here since we all know how it would go down if it ended up happening.
2. Two Ice Climbers with a single skeleton type structure without the ability to desynch or sepatate (Wii U and 3DS): You might know what I'm talking about, but I want to sound as clear as possible. Having both Ice Climbers as one entity. New hitboxes, some new animations, they get KO'd simultaneously all the time, etc. The lead climber could grab while the partner pummels and the leader throws. When the leader gets grabbed, the partner climber watches in horror like that scene in the Subspace where they look so cute you just wanna mush their rosy cheeks! You cannot interact or attack the partner climber when they're like this. They'll basically be in a glorified spot dodge. When the lead climber is thrown, the partner hugs onto the leader and holds on for dear life. At least they'll always be together <3. When KO'd, they're both out simultaneously and it won't be as loud as KOing them together in Melee and Brawl. Maybe only the leader will scream if it's still too loud? If they're together, they'll likely have a beefier hitbox (or hurtbox, whichever one is the box that detects damage and gets attacked). It shouldn't be too problematic. Luckily they're small. And cute. Most of their attacks may not have to change since they're most effective when together anyway. I feel that some may prefer that kind of consistency. I'd be fine with it. I'm a terrible desyncher anyway. And I'm far from being a SoPo/SoNa extraordinaire. I think this option would be less about throwing their original concept out the window entirely, more about a dynamic evolution to the Ice Climbers' playstyle in Super Smash Bros. I boldly feel that if the Ice Climbers had to be modified, this may be the most universally accepted change in comparison to other options.
3. Traditional Ice Climbers Wii U exclusive and their amiibo will only be compatible with the Wii U version: If the Ice Climbers were to come back the way they always have been, there is no easier option than to just have them be Wii U exclusive. First, let me talk about their amiibo. All Smash fighters are getting amiibo. Ice Climbers would be no exception to this now known fact, but they wouldn't be like the rest of them. When tapped onto a Wii U gamepad, (great, now it sounds like I'm advertising) the Ice Climbers would come out to play with big smiles on their cute faces, and you can level them up to 50. But when tapped onto a New 3DS or 3DS amiibo adapter, it will say: "This amiibo is not compatible for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS." It seems in the realm of possibility since amiibo have select compatibility. So Ice Climbers could be the only one only compatible for the Wii U version and not the 3DS version. But don't worry, maybe they'll be compatible for Ace Combat... if they wanted to troll us hard. Moving on, the Ice Climbers would be Wii U exclusive and play in their traditional playstyle. The 3DS wouldn't have them because it hypothetically could not work in that version. And this option's fatal flaw? 3DS owners being upset over this, especially ones who don't own a Wii U. This is what Sakurai initially wanted to avoid. He wanted it to be fair for everyone. I've seen conversations where a 3DS owner says, "I'd feel cheated if I knew there was a Wii U exclusive character!" While the Wii U owner says, "Well how do you think we feel now? We feel cheated out of a character because the 3DS version took it away from us!" Judging by the sales of the 3DS version, a portion of people would be very unhappy by a sudden announcement of a Wii U exclusive character, euphemistically speaking.
4. One Ice Climber on screen where the second climber spawns/despawns during certain moves (Wii U and 3DS): It doesn't sound as nice as option number 2. It would just be one Ice Climber running around most of the time while the other gets summoned during certain moves like Zelda's Phantom Slash. Not a very exciting alternative. If they have to resort to something like that, fine. But people would still be disappointed if it were to be the best they could do in terms of retaining the duo mechanic, albeit incredibly loosely.
5. Traditional/modified Ice Climbers as Wii U and New Nintendo 3DS exclusives: I don't know what to think of this one. It seems like a convoluted resort. It sounds confusing to program and we're not even sure how much better and easier it would be to program Ice Climbers on the New 3DS. It could even mess up the market in general. How would a New 3DS exclusive work anyway? It's exclusive content, not an exclusive feature. Regular 3DS owners would be upset by it anyway. I don't think making them a New 3DS exclusive is worth the trouble. That's why I placed this option so low. If they decided to make them exclusive, they'd be Wii U exclusive. Or there could be Super Smash Bros. for New Nintendo 3DS: Director's Cut?
6. Solo Ice Climber with buffed moves and Nana and Popo are alternate skins of each other (Wii U and 3DS): Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've heard this one already. Make a solo Ice Climber, buff their moves, maybe make the condor their new Up B, have Popo and Nana as alternate skins of each other, yada yada yada. For some of us, we're willing to accept it as a last resort so we at least have the Ice Climbers in the game at all. Yes, it's not as good. Yes, it's distant from the very playstyle that made the Ice Climbers unique as fighters in the first place. But when our backs are against the wall like this, depending on the success or considerations of every other option, now is not the time to get picky.

• Dishonorable Mention: No Ice Climbers at all: Okay, I could tolerate a solo Ice Climber and be accepting and appreciative that they're at least in the game. But this?! Blasphemy! I'm quite honestly surprised that people prefer no Ice Climbers over one. I've already given my stance on that last resort solution. I suppose Sakurai wouldn't want to go the easy route anyway. If his strict rule about how both rosters MUST be the same for both versions remains, then they won't be made as exclusives and it would damage their chances of both being in the game and the closeness to their original playstyle. Priority can no longer be a reason held against them since the game is complete, and the Ice Climbers have a huge fanbase. This was Sakurai's decision during development and it's the unfortunate "if I can't make certain people happy, nobody can be happy" type of option. If Sakurai decides, "Nope, I'm still not bringing back the Ice Climbers. Not even as DLC," then nobody except for the haters would be happy and the neutrals would remain neutral.

If only there was a way to make deciding the solutions easier... That's it! What if we made a straw poll of all the possible options that could be taken with bringing back the Ice Climbers as DLC and see how many votes each one gets? People can vote multiple times in the order of their preferences or whichever specific ones they would want to happen. We can help guide them through all the options and have a way to better inform them on the possibilities of the Ice Climbers returning and break the false rumors and the negative stigmas. Or better yet, break the ice! It's a stretch, but it could be a useful way for us to get the word out.

Also, if anyone has anything whether it be drawings, videos, or something to say about the Ice Climbers' cuteness, please, go nuts! This thread really needs something to cheer people up and gives us something positive while we wait for new Smash announcements.

 

[ROBnWatch]

It seems nearly every option for Ice Climbers will leave someone unhappy. I'm gonna restate and breakdown potential results to each thing I mentioned in Rate their Chances:

1. Traditional Ice Climbers on both Wii U and Nintendo 3DS: The technical miracle it seems. If it were possible, if given enough time, Sakurai would surely shoot for this one first and foremost. It would be the ultimate way to disprove nonbelievers by showing that they are possible on both versions the way they've always been. Nothing else to say here since we all know how it would go down if it ended up happening.
2. Two Ice Climbers with a single skeleton type structure without the ability to desynch or sepatate (Wii U and 3DS): You might know what I'm talking about, but I want to sound as clear as possible. Having both Ice Climbers as one entity. New hitboxes, some new animations, they get KO'd simultaneously all the time, etc. The lead climber could grab while the partner pummels and the leader throws. When the leader gets grabbed, the partner climber watches in horror like that scene in the Subspace where they look so cute you just wanna mush their rosy cheeks! You cannot interact or attack the partner climber when they're like this. They'll basically be in a glorified spot dodge. When the lead climber is thrown, the partner hugs onto the leader and holds on for dear life. At least they'll always be together <3. When KO'd, they're both out simultaneously and it won't be as loud as KOing them together in Melee and Brawl. Maybe only the leader will scream if it's still too loud? If they're together, they'll likely have a beefier hitbox (or hurtbox, whichever one is the box that detects damage and gets attacked). It shouldn't be too problematic. Luckily they're small. And cute. Most of their attacks may not have to change since they're most effective when together anyway. I feel that some may prefer that kind of consistency. I'd be fine with it. I'm a terrible desyncher anyway. And I'm far from being a SoPo/SoNa extraordinaire. I think this option would be less about throwing their original concept out the window entirely, more about a dynamic evolution to the Ice Climbers' playstyle in Super Smash Bros. I boldly feel that if the Ice Climbers had to be modified, this may be the most universally accepted change in comparison to other options.
3. Traditional Ice Climbers Wii U exclusive and their amiibo will only be compatible with the Wii U version: If the Ice Climbers were to come back the way they always have been, there is no easier option than to just have them be Wii U exclusive. First, let me talk about their amiibo. All Smash fighters are getting amiibo. Ice Climbers would be no exception to this now known fact, but they wouldn't be like the rest of them. When tapped onto a Wii U gamepad, (great, now it sounds like I'm advertising) the Ice Climbers would come out to play with big smiles on their cute faces, and you can level them up to 50. But when tapped onto a New 3DS or 3DS amiibo adapter, it will say: "This amiibo is not compatible for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS." It seems in the realm of possibility since amiibo have select compatibility. So Ice Climbers could be the only one only compatible for the Wii U version and not the 3DS version. But don't worry, maybe they'll be compatible for Ace Combat... if they wanted to troll us hard. Moving on, the Ice Climbers would be Wii U exclusive and play in their traditional playstyle. The 3DS wouldn't have them because it hypothetically could not work in that version. And this option's fatal flaw? 3DS owners being upset over this, especially ones who don't own a Wii U. This is what Sakurai initially wanted to avoid. He wanted it to be fair for everyone. I've seen conversations where a 3DS owner says, "I'd feel cheated if I knew there was a Wii U exclusive character!" While the Wii U owner says, "Well how do you think we feel now? We feel cheated out of a character because the 3DS version took it away from us!" Judging by the sales of the 3DS version, a portion of people would be very unhappy by a sudden announcement of a Wii U exclusive character, euphemistically speaking.
4. One Ice Climber on screen where the second climber spawns/despawns during certain moves (Wii U and 3DS): It doesn't sound as nice as option number 2. It would just be one Ice Climber running around most of the time while the other gets summoned during certain moves like Zelda's Phantom Slash. Not a very exciting alternative. If they have to resort to something like that, fine. But people would still be disappointed if it were to be the best they could do in terms of retaining the duo mechanic, albeit incredibly loosely.
5. Traditional/modified Ice Climbers as Wii U and New Nintendo 3DS exclusives: I don't know what to think of this one. It seems like a convoluted resort. It sounds confusing to program and we're not even sure how much better and easier it would be to program Ice Climbers on the New 3DS. It could even mess up the market in general. How would a New 3DS exclusive work anyway? It's exclusive content, not an exclusive feature. Regular 3DS owners would be upset by it anyway. I don't think making them a New 3DS exclusive is worth the trouble. That's why I placed this option so low. If they decided to make them exclusive, they'd be Wii U exclusive. Or there could be Super Smash Bros. for New Nintendo 3DS: Director's Cut?
6. Solo Ice Climber with buffed moves and Nana and Popo are alternate skins of each other (Wii U and 3DS): Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've heard this one already. Make a solo Ice Climber, buff their moves, maybe make the condor their new Up B, have Popo and Nana as alternate skins of each other, yada yada yada. For some of us, we're willing to accept it as a last resort so we at least have the Ice Climbers in the game at all. Yes, it's not as good. Yes, it's distant from the very playstyle that made the Ice Climbers unique as fighters in the first place. But when our backs are against the wall like this, depending on the success or considerations of every other option, now is not the time to get picky.

• Dishonorable Mention: No Ice Climbers at all: Okay, I could tolerate a solo Ice Climber and be accepting and appreciative that they're at least in the game. But this?! Blasphemy! I'm quite honestly surprised that people prefer no Ice Climbers over one. I've already given my stance on that last resort solution. I suppose Sakurai wouldn't want to go the easy route anyway. If his strict rule about how both rosters MUST be the same for both versions remains, then they won't be made as exclusives and it would damage their chances of both being in the game and the closeness to their original playstyle. Priority can no longer be a reason held against them since the game is complete, and the Ice Climbers have a huge fanbase. This was Sakurai's decision during development and it's the unfortunate "if I can't make certain people happy, nobody can be happy" type of option. If Sakurai decides, "Nope, I'm still not bringing back the Ice Climbers. Not even as DLC," then nobody except for the haters would be happy and the neutrals would remain neutral.

If only there was a way to make deciding the solutions easier... That's it! What if we made a straw poll of all the possible options that could be taken with bringing back the Ice Climbers as DLC and see how many votes each one gets? People can vote multiple times in the order of their preferences or whichever specific ones they would want to happen. We can help guide them through all the options and have a way to better inform them on the possibilities of the Ice Climbers returning and break the false rumors and the negative stigmas. Or better yet, break the ice! It's a stretch, but it could be a useful way for us to get the word out.

Also, if anyone has anything whether it be drawings, videos, or something to say about the Ice Climbers' cuteness, please, go nuts! This thread really needs something to cheer people up and gives us something positive while we wait for new Smash announcements.

Pretty much covers all the options, and the ideas on the bottom aren't bad. Nice essay, falcomaster.

I suppose I could try to do some more ICies drawings. I'll need some inspiration though...hmmmm...

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

It seems nearly every option for Ice Climbers will leave someone unhappy. I'm gonna restate and breakdown potential results to each thing I mentioned in Rate their Chances:

1. Traditional Ice Climbers on both Wii U and Nintendo 3DS: The technical miracle it seems. If it were possible, if given enough time, Sakurai would surely shoot for this one first and foremost. It would be the ultimate way to disprove nonbelievers by showing that they are possible on both versions the way they've always been. Nothing else to say here since we all know how it would go down if it ended up happening.
2. Two Ice Climbers with a single skeleton type structure without the ability to desynch or sepatate (Wii U and 3DS): You might know what I'm talking about, but I want to sound as clear as possible. Having both Ice Climbers as one entity. New hitboxes, some new animations, they get KO'd simultaneously all the time, etc. The lead climber could grab while the partner pummels and the leader throws. When the leader gets grabbed, the partner climber watches in horror like that scene in the Subspace where they look so cute you just wanna mush their rosy cheeks! You cannot interact or attack the partner climber when they're like this. They'll basically be in a glorified spot dodge. When the lead climber is thrown, the partner hugs onto the leader and holds on for dear life. At least they'll always be together <3. When KO'd, they're both out simultaneously and it won't be as loud as KOing them together in Melee and Brawl. Maybe only the leader will scream if it's still too loud? If they're together, they'll likely have a beefier hitbox (or hurtbox, whichever one is the box that detects damage and gets attacked). It shouldn't be too problematic. Luckily they're small. And cute. Most of their attacks may not have to change since they're most effective when together anyway. I feel that some may prefer that kind of consistency. I'd be fine with it. I'm a terrible desyncher anyway. And I'm far from being a SoPo/SoNa extraordinaire. I think this option would be less about throwing their original concept out the window entirely, more about a dynamic evolution to the Ice Climbers' playstyle in Super Smash Bros. I boldly feel that if the Ice Climbers had to be modified, this may be the most universally accepted change in comparison to other options.
3. Traditional Ice Climbers Wii U exclusive and their amiibo will only be compatible with the Wii U version: If the Ice Climbers were to come back the way they always have been, there is no easier option than to just have them be Wii U exclusive. First, let me talk about their amiibo. All Smash fighters are getting amiibo. Ice Climbers would be no exception to this now known fact, but they wouldn't be like the rest of them. When tapped onto a Wii U gamepad, (great, now it sounds like I'm advertising) the Ice Climbers would come out to play with big smiles on their cute faces, and you can level them up to 50. But when tapped onto a New 3DS or 3DS amiibo adapter, it will say: "This amiibo is not compatible for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS." It seems in the realm of possibility since amiibo have select compatibility. So Ice Climbers could be the only one only compatible for the Wii U version and not the 3DS version. But don't worry, maybe they'll be compatible for Ace Combat... if they wanted to troll us hard. Moving on, the Ice Climbers would be Wii U exclusive and play in their traditional playstyle. The 3DS wouldn't have them because it hypothetically could not work in that version. And this option's fatal flaw? 3DS owners being upset over this, especially ones who don't own a Wii U. This is what Sakurai initially wanted to avoid. He wanted it to be fair for everyone. I've seen conversations where a 3DS owner says, "I'd feel cheated if I knew there was a Wii U exclusive character!" While the Wii U owner says, "Well how do you think we feel now? We feel cheated out of a character because the 3DS version took it away from us!" Judging by the sales of the 3DS version, a portion of people would be very unhappy by a sudden announcement of a Wii U exclusive character, euphemistically speaking.
4. One Ice Climber on screen where the second climber spawns/despawns during certain moves (Wii U and 3DS): It doesn't sound as nice as option number 2. It would just be one Ice Climber running around most of the time while the other gets summoned during certain moves like Zelda's Phantom Slash. Not a very exciting alternative. If they have to resort to something like that, fine. But people would still be disappointed if it were to be the best they could do in terms of retaining the duo mechanic, albeit incredibly loosely.
5. Traditional/modified Ice Climbers as Wii U and New Nintendo 3DS exclusives: I don't know what to think of this one. It seems like a convoluted resort. It sounds confusing to program and we're not even sure how much better and easier it would be to program Ice Climbers on the New 3DS. It could even mess up the market in general. How would a New 3DS exclusive work anyway? It's exclusive content, not an exclusive feature. Regular 3DS owners would be upset by it anyway. I don't think making them a New 3DS exclusive is worth the trouble. That's why I placed this option so low. If they decided to make them exclusive, they'd be Wii U exclusive. Or there could be Super Smash Bros. for New Nintendo 3DS: Director's Cut?
6. Solo Ice Climber with buffed moves and Nana and Popo are alternate skins of each other (Wii U and 3DS): Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've heard this one already. Make a solo Ice Climber, buff their moves, maybe make the condor their new Up B, have Popo and Nana as alternate skins of each other, yada yada yada. For some of us, we're willing to accept it as a last resort so we at least have the Ice Climbers in the game at all. Yes, it's not as good. Yes, it's distant from the very playstyle that made the Ice Climbers unique as fighters in the first place. But when our backs are against the wall like this, depending on the success or considerations of every other option, now is not the time to get picky.

• Dishonorable Mention: No Ice Climbers at all: Okay, I could tolerate a solo Ice Climber and be accepting and appreciative that they're at least in the game. But this?! Blasphemy! I'm quite honestly surprised that people prefer no Ice Climbers over one. I've already given my stance on that last resort solution. I suppose Sakurai wouldn't want to go the easy route anyway. If his strict rule about how both rosters MUST be the same for both versions remains, then they won't be made as exclusives and it would damage their chances of both being in the game and the closeness to their original playstyle. Priority can no longer be a reason held against them since the game is complete, and the Ice Climbers have a huge fanbase. This was Sakurai's decision during development and it's the unfortunate "if I can't make certain people happy, nobody can be happy" type of option. If Sakurai decides, "Nope, I'm still not bringing back the Ice Climbers. Not even as DLC," then nobody except for the haters would be happy and the neutrals would remain neutral.

If only there was a way to make deciding the solutions easier... That's it! What if we made a straw poll of all the possible options that could be taken with bringing back the Ice Climbers as DLC and see how many votes each one gets? People can vote multiple times in the order of their preferences or whichever specific ones they would want to happen. We can help guide them through all the options and have a way to better inform them on the possibilities of the Ice Climbers returning and break the false rumors and the negative stigmas. Or better yet, break the ice! It's a stretch, but it could be a useful way for us to get the word out.

Also, if anyone has anything whether it be drawings, videos, or something to say about the Ice Climbers' cuteness, please, go nuts! This thread really needs something to cheer people up and gives us something positive while we wait for new Smash announcements.

Very nice, well might as well quote one of my previous postings...

I've been drawing since the age of 2, you can already can count on me to do that

 

[FancySmash]

Very nice, well might as well quote one of my previous postings...

You quoting yourself for some reason inspired me to do this, it was probably the "you can already count on me" part, due to the similarities. I'm sorry, I just had to. XD

When @ JaylonSonicSpeed is taking care of the art, Alfonzo takes care of the posting on SmashBoards.
Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!"

 

[JaylonSonicSpeed]

You quoting yourself for some reason inspired me to do this, it was probably the "you can already count on me" part, due to the similarities. I'm sorry, I just had to. XD

View attachment 58075
When @ JaylonSonicSpeed is taking care of the art, Alfonzo takes care of the posting on SmashBoards.
Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!"

You have no idea how much I love you right now

 

[ROBnWatch]

You quoting yourself for some reason inspired me to do this, it was probably the "you can already count on me" part, due to the similarities. I'm sorry, I just had to. XD

View attachment 58075
When @ JaylonSonicSpeed is taking care of the art, Alfonzo takes care of the posting on SmashBoards.
Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!"

*Drops dead*

 

[MoveMan1]

You know what annoys me? Everytime Sakurai comes up with a reason a character cannot get in, everyone acts like Sakurai is lying and is about to go back on his word at any second.

But when he brings up technical limits, everyone acts like it's the ****ing gospel!

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

You know what annoys me? Everytime Sakurai comes up with a reason a character cannot get in, everyone acts like Sakurai is lying and is about to go back on his word at any second.

But when he brings up technical limits, everyone acts like it's the ****ing gospel!

Ridley: Sakurai represents him in a way that fits the character best because he respects Ridley as a character. I totally dig his reasoning. Fans say that's not good enough and still want him as a fighter anyway.

Chrom: Honestly, I don't like the way Sakurai treats Chrom. I think the way he was deconfirmed was rude. I have yet to play Awakening, but I can only imagine how his most loyal fans felt. I think he put Palutena and Viridi up to what their lines are in Robin's guidance conversation. I hope Sakurai decides not to bully Chrom again. But in Smash 4, the damage is already done.

Waluigi: "Just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll make it in." This is what he initially said. He decided to make him an assist trophy again because he felt he lacked uniqueness. I'm okay with more unique characters being added in favor, but I don't see characters like Waluigi or Daisy bringing much to the table.

Takamaru: It's weird how Sakurai decided not to put him in since he was considered multiple times before Smash 4. He thought he was too obscure for anyone to recognize him. Unless he decides that assist trophy characters can become fighters, I'm afraid we probably won't see Takamaru's time to shine yet.

Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, and Charizard are all separated: Oh look. Sakurai found a solution to adding these characters in the game. Hmm... and there were technical issues with them during development? And a solution was decided on? Well, let's look at the characters themselves. They're from Nintendo's most major AAA franchises, and popular among millions and millions of people. Gee, they must have had a high priority to be put into the game, so they could be thoroughly worked on and fixed without being cut.

Bowser Jr. was almost cut: People don't bat an eye nearly as much to this than other circumstances that happened.

Ice Climbers: "Yep, completely impossible." - the fans. Seriously, I heard someone say, "Take everything Sakurai says with a grain of salt except for what he said about Ice Climbers." If that statement alone doesn't prove your point @ M MoveMan1 , I don't know what will. Sakurai did say they were deliberately given a low priority, but many people just gloss over that part. They focus on how the 3DS was the "main" cause of their cut, their source-less reasoning with that 8-Player Smash stuff, and Sakurai's law that both rosters must be the same.

Among all the characters in Smash 4 verbally deconfirmed by Sakurai, the only ones I can see make it in as DLC are the Ice Climbers. Come at me, nonbelievers!

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Ridley: Sakurai represents him in a way that fits the character best because he respects Ridley as a character. I totally dig his reasoning. Fans say that's not good enough and still want him as a fighter anyway.

Chrom: Honestly, I don't like the way Sakurai treats Chrom. I think the way he was deconfirmed was rude. I have yet to play Awakening, but I can only imagine how his most loyal fans felt. I think he put Palutena and Viridi up to what their lines are in Robin's guidance conversation. I hope Sakurai decides not to bully Chrom again. But in Smash 4, the damage is already done.

Really, you like how Ridley is represented. Well then, why don't we make Ganondorf a stage boss since he isn't anything like what he does in the games. Why don't we remove the Koopalings as alts since they can't turn into Shadow Mario. Why don't we make Olimar actually his height. Dude, Sakurai isn't adding Ridley because he doesn't want to try. Ridley is THE most deserving character that isn't in Smash yet, even over King K. Rool. Ridley fans have been waiting since Melee. The reasoning Sakurai gave was bull**** because a 14 year old made a mod in Project M all by himself showing that Ridley can be possible. This is my dream, to see all of the characters in the Melee intro to become playable (Ice Climbers, Ridley, Samurai Goroh, and Wolf).

Chrom wasn't added because Sakurai felt Robin was more unique. Plus, you actually play as Robin in Awakening.