Brawl's competitiveness will determine it's greatness in the end

[greenblob]

Still, there is the possibility that Brawl will have relatively few techs compared to Melee.

 

[GreenKirby]

Throw in new controls and loud women throwing off your concentration, and it'll be turtle liike slow.

 

[PilotEvan]

The greatest games of all time were never considered great because of any competitive reason or any reason that would take months/years to come into being. Replay value is always something to consider, but that's not the same as "competitiveness". Not to mention that a game is rated by the press within the first few weeks, and if anything, how a game is rated is the only real solid, withstanding way generations beyond will know if a game is good, unless the legacy surpasses it (which Brawl will probably do both; but either way, competitiveness is not part of the equation).

 

[greenblob]

Compare StarCraft and Mario Kart.

 

[DragonBlade]

I have to agree. A good competitive scene is what separates a great game from a merely good one. If Brawl isn't competitive, it'll merely be a distraction--a small blip in the history of gaming. But if Brawl turns out to be a great competitive game, it'll go down in history as one of the greats, along with StarCraft, Counter-Strike, and Street Fighter.
Of course you don't need wavedashing. I'm pretty sure no one cares THAT much about it being in Brawl. What people are really concerned about is whether Brawl will be a deep fighting game or a shallow party game. Wavedashing isn't necessary for the former to become reality.
There are many fun games that aren't competitive. Many gamers consider them to be among their favorites and go back to them regularly. Two examples of this would be Wii Sports and Mario Kart -_-.
Melee is better than that, and I hope that Brawl will live up to, or even surpass, Melee's standards.

Also, imagine what would happen if one of Nintendo's games gains widespread popularity among the serious crowd early on and throughout its lifetime. Imagine the implications. Would Nintendo take note? Melee's competitive scene bloomed somewhat late in its life and Nintendo took some notice, but not much. With Melee's crowd and the anticipation for Brawl, its tournament scene could become much bigger, with MLG and Evo already looking into it. If the competitive crowd caught Nintendo's attention, it could end up shifting the company's entire view on gaming.

Thats exactly what I'm trying to get at. People don't seem to realize the potential Brawl has, and it can do it without making casual play any worse. Why shouldn't we expect it to if it can? Why do we accept Nintendo's new casual focus when the game should encompass many things beyond that?

There is some truth to the original post, though if he intended what I plan to say, it could have been said better. GreenBlob touched on several of my points, but I'm going to expand it a bit.

For comparison, I'll take Mario Kart. It's generally considered to be a great and highly successful game, but how many people still spend 3+ hours playing it in an average week (who have owned it for a couple years or more)? Smash still has tons of people spending 5-10 hours per week on it.

What's the difference? After 30-60 hours of play, Mario Kart hits that point where there's nowhere to go. You have all of the tracks memorized, you've tried them in different cars, etc.

Smash, on the other hand, always offers some new skill to develop. Even casuals put at least some effort into developing new skills, and the great depth of Smash provides grounds for them to do so. Plus, while the hardcore tournament-goers make up a very small percent of Smashers, most players are at least semi-competitive. If the game hits a point where it is offering too little room for improvement, it'll sit next to the four-year-old copy of Mario Kart. Something to pull out and play once in a while, but certainly not regularly. Sure, Mario Kart was a great success, but it pales next to Smash.

That being said, I'm confident in the amount of depth we'll see in Brawl. In fact, reports from E for All increased my hopes instead of dashing it (if you really want to know why, I can explain it, but this post is already long).

Oh, and BTW, people. Stop trying to turn this into a wavedash thread. The OP didn't mention it, and it's debatable whether he implied it, so get out of your "all competitive players worship wavedashing" mode of thinking and discuss what has actually been said.

Thats a good example with Mario Kart. I think it makes my point clearer.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Thats exactly what I'm trying to get at. People don't seem to realize the potential Brawl has, and it can do it without making casual play any worse. Why shouldn't we expect it to if it can? Why do we accept Nintendo's new casual focus when the game should encompass many things beyond that?

We'll all just have to see how it is when the game comes out and we play it to death. Not to sound rude or anything, but who are you to say how the game should be? I mean, I know you want a competitive scene, but we don't know how anything will work yet.

 

[greenblob]

Well, look at history. The most revered multiplayer games are usually the most competitive ones.

 

[DraginHikari]

Smash Bros in general stands out as a fighting game anyone can play. Most fighting games like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, etc. Are usually harder to learn for the more casual player due to usually complex combo structures.

Anyone can enjoy Smash Brothers less complex basic techinques and enjoy it for what it is. At the same time there has always been room for advance players to come up with new ways and methods to enjoy the game.

Really saying that casual is somehow messing with the structures seem a tad inaccurate.

 

[MookieRah]

guys, brawl is it's own game, it's no more SSBM than it is Final Fantasy 7.

Haha, that's dumb. It's a sequel, it should be similar to it's predecessors, otherwise they should have just made a new game series! People need to understand that and stop toting this "it's a new game it should be totally and completely different" banner. Seriously...

The fears of a depthless Brawl only come up when a person is rubbed the wrong way about WD being removed.

Some competitive people whined because of the loss of wavedash, but it's foolish to lump all of us in the same boat. Please don't stereotype.

 

[veil222]

The competitive crowd is a pretty small fraction, the game isn't going to be marketed to us though we will be taken a bit into consideration. Saying brawl will fail if it doesn't get a cult tournament following is a really lofty statement.

 

[greenblob]

This isn't about whether Brawl will be successful--it's about whether Brawl will be among the greats.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Maybe, maybe not, we'll see come January/February. Then again, it might take even longer than that, since from what I gather, the competitive scene for Melee didn't pop up for a while.

 

[LavisFiend]

Some competitive people whined because of the loss of wavedash, but it's foolish to lump all of us in the same boat. Please don't stereotype.

Mookierah...

If people can't distinguish that what I say does or does not apply to them, then that's their own fault, not mine...

After all, the stereotype for the most part holds true, it is not my fault that it does, the people who fit into the stereotype have noone to blame but themselves for living up to it.

Case and point: I will stereotype, because the stereotype holds true to this day...

and if the wrong people are included, and they get upset...who cares?

My bet is if they get offended, then obviously something hit right at home, which...makes them part of the stereotype.

My point, again, is simply this: Those who don't live up to the stereotype won't be offended by it, and if they are, than it is their fault and their fault alone.

Savvy?

 

[Superstarmario]

Nimrod...

Brawl is no longer just a multiplayer game.


You are getting flamed because your logic is idiotic and baseless.

I'm not taking a side here. Truthfully this whole arguement is bordering idiotic and baseless. The true 'anti-first poster' arguement is based on the sole point of "brol iz guna rok no matta wut u trol" . BUT YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE FINAL VERSION.

Yes there is stickers, and assist trophys, and that's fine and well, but who's to say that'll make you play the game 10 years. Hell, I stayed away from Melee after 2. The competitive scene brought me back. Not everyone is detrimened to make themselves like the game months before the game is actually even released like you are. So there are a few gripes. Ok. I know I have some. But why does everyone on this board and their grandmother want to convince you that Brawl is god and it can do no wrong before you actually play the **** game?

I'm gonna skip over the convient flip flops between the argements of "Melee was good so Brawl is going to be better cause it's a sequel!" and "This isn't Melee 2.0 this is an all new game!" Cause i'm tired. (See what I did there?)

As for the thread topic, I disagree. The game can be good for years, and with enough people liking it, a competitive scene will just develop again right under Sakurai's little japanese nose.

 

[LavisFiend]

I'm not taking a side here. Truthfully this whole arguement is bordering idiotic and baseless. The true 'anti-first poster' arguement is based on the sole point of "brol iz guna rok no matta wut u trol" . BUT YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE FINAL VERSION.

Yes there is stickers, and assist trophys, and that's fine and well, but who's to say that'll make you play the game 10 years. Hell, I stayed away from Melee after 2. The competitive scene brought me back. Not everyone is detrimened to make themselves like the game months before the game is actually even released like you are. So there are a few gripes. Ok. I know I have some. But why does everyone on this board and their grandmother want to convince you that Brawl is god and it can do no wrong before you actually play the **** game?

I'm gonna skip over the convient flip flops between the argements of "Melee was good so Brawl is going to be better cause it's a sequel!" and "This isn't Melee 2.0 this is an all new game!" Cause i'm tired. (See what I did there?)

As for the thread topic, I disagree. The game can be good for years, and with enough people liking it, a competitive scene will just develop again right under Sakurai's little japanese nose.

Imbecile...

I stated facts in that quote.

It IS NO LONGER JUST MULTIPLAYER, (gasp!)

and his logic is really ******** as well because..,well, you just said it, the game is not out yet....

and his argument is basically one large whine because a tech was removed, and he thinks the game won't be competitive because of it...

Following so far?

and your whole paragraph is opinionated and contradictory in itself...

I can draw a fair assumption that Brawl will be great because the basic formula is still there...

They are simply building around it...

Now, if you are done being an imbecile, be so kindly to take this nugget of info with you...


MAKE SURE TO QUOTE SOMETHING THAT IS RELEVANT TO YOUR GRIPING!


That is all.

 

[greenblob]

I don't think Brawl's singleplayer mode will be comparable to a Metroid or Final Fantasy *gasp!*

Seriously, if you're expecting something amazing for singleplayer, you're probably kidding yourself. Yes, it will be amazing compared to what Melee gave us, but compared to the singleplayer mode of one of the great singleplayer games, it will be nothing.

At best, it'll be comparable to StarCraft, except probably without the "make your own mission" modes. When people think of a great multiplayer-focused game with a good singleplayer, they usually think "StarCraft," and even with that game the multiplayer vastly overshadows the singleplayer mode.

 

[LavisFiend]

I don't think Brawl's singleplayer mode will be comparable to a Metroid or Final Fantasy *gasp!*

Seriously, if you're expecting something amazing for singleplayer, you're probably kidding yourself. Yes, it will be amazing compared to what Melee gave us, but compared to the singleplayer mode of one of the great singleplayer games, it will be nothing.

At best, it'll be comparable to StarCraft, except probably without the "make your own mission" modes.

Sakurai (or another Nintendo exec,) have been quoted to saying in an article floating around that if Brawl had only the singleplayer and no multi, that alone is worth 50$....

I SERIOUSLY doubt after a statement like that, that the story mode will be anything less than a real single player.

 

[Superstarmario]

Imbecile...

I stated facts in that quote.

It IS NO LONGER JUST MULTIPLAYER, (gasp!)

and his logic is really ******** as well because..,well, you just said it, the game is not out yet....

and his argument is basically one large whine because a tech was removed, and he thinks the game won't be competitive because of it...

Following so far?

and your whole paragraph is opinionated and contradictory in itself...

I can draw a fair assumption that Brawl will be great because the basic formula is still there...

They are simply building around it...

Now, if you are done being an imbecile, be so kindly to take this nugget of info with you...


MAKE SURE TO QUOTE SOMETHING THAT IS RELEVANT TO YOUR GRIPING!


That is all.

Fun.

Brawl, or better wrote, Smash, has never been just a multiplayer game. And as far as we know, SSE could be just as bland and rompish as Adventure mode in Melee, just with a storyline. You assumed it would be good.

But I only quoted your post for the last sentence anyway, as my post was based on the flaming. I didn't think the clarification was neccesary. Especially since I didn't say anything about the first sentence at all in my post.

Oh right.

Imbecile

Fun fun.

and your whole paragraph is opinionated and contradictory in itself...

Opinionated, maybe. Contradictory? To what? I was being impartial.

I can draw a fair assumption that Brawl will be great because the basic formula is still there...

They are simply building around it...

Anyone can. Yet still your arguement holds weak since you haven't played it. Nor have I. Therefore there isn't a reason to bash someone for every little gripe on the
game.


Saving myself a double post here.

Sakurai (or another Nintendo exec,) have been quoted to saying in an article floating around that if Brawl had only the singleplayer and no multi, that alone is worth 50$....

I SERIOUSLY doubt after a statement like that, that the story mode will be anything less than a real single player.

A Nintendo rep.

Nintendo of all companies talking about quality stories. Well you never know.

 

[NES n00b]

What is this a witch hunt?

"You haven't play this game so you can't say it sucks" "This game is the best game ever" This is all I hear over and over. I am tired of seeing those contradictory statements thrown around. Also, the "You are just a selfish whiney person for wanting a competitive scene. You just want wavedashing because somehow that relates exactly to what you are saying. Sakurai made it for casuals not you; therefore, I am right in all levels and not selfish." "It is a new game so it can't be compared to Melee, but Brawl is already much better compared to Melee."


Urg, these things urk me.

 

[LavisFiend]

Fun.

Brawl, or better wrote, Smash, has never been just a multiplayer game. And as far as we know, SSE could be just as bland and rompish as Adventure mode in Melee, just with a storyline. You assumed it would be good.

But I only quoted your post for the last sentence anyway, as my post was based on the flaming. I didn't think the clarification was neccesary. Especially since I didn't say anything about the first sentence at all in my post.

Oh right.




Fun fun.



Opinionated, maybe. Contradictory? To what? I was being impartial.




Anyone can. Yet still your arguement holds weak since you haven't played it. Nor have I. Therefore there isn't a reason to bash someone for every little gripe on the
game.


Saving myself a double post here.



A Nintendo rep.

Nintendo of all companies talking about quality stories. Well you never know.

Yes there is...

Pessimism based off of a removal of a tech from a past game is stupid. My logic holds merit over his not because of optimism, but because of fact.

It is a FACT that the last two games sold well because of the casual scene, not the competitive scene.

It is a FACT that without techs, the game that the vast majority purchased was replayed because of it's pick-up-and-play scheme, the competitive people rode shotgun.

It is a FACT that this game is having extra effort put in it to make it the best it can be.

It is a FACT that each individual staff member has clocked in over 10,000 matches INDIVIDUALLY on melee.

It is a FACT that there will be a REAL story mode, equipped with movies.

It is a FACT that over 25+ musicians are pouring their heart and soul into the soundtrack.

It is a FACT that we will have a new playable map EV-ER-Y DAY.
and finally...

IT IS A FACT THAT IF YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THESE GOOD THINGS,AND STILL TRY TO FIND SOMETHING WRONG.....

YOU....

ARE

********!

 

[error_alt_delete]

alright, I am gong to toss you guys my two cents and be on my way.
*note this is thrown in a general direction, not realy focused on anyone*

ceartain "avanced techniques" werent put into there on purpose, they were due to takeing advantage of the game itself.
WD is a prime example. if a character was moving in a non glitch manner, they wouldnt slide like that, it just doesnt look natural.
due to the improved physics engine and overall game coverage, this game wont have "advanced techniques" that take time and effort to find that are like WD.

so what if they are gone?

also the only reason this game seems slow to you is you have seen to much WD, it seemed the same speed as melee to me, becuase I dont use stuff like that!

these "advanced techniques" are gone, because they were never meant to be in the game.
brawl isnt melee 2.0(like the others have stated)
with online, create a stage, good story mode(compared to the melee version), and a slew of other options, this game will still do well, and the competitive scene will still do well.

if the game is too"simple" for your tastes, play soul caliber or something while I enjoy my brawl.

 

[RetroRhythm]

Yes there is...

Pessimism based off of a removal of a tech from a past game is stupid. My logic holds merit over his not because of optimism, but because of fact.

It is a FACT that the last two games sold well because of the casual scene, not the competitive scene.

It is a FACT that without techs, the game that the vast majority purchased was replayed because of it's pick-up-and-play scheme, the competitive people rode shotgun.

It is a FACT that this game is having extra effort put in it to make it the best it can be.

It is a FACT that each individual staff member has clocked in over 10,000 matches INDIVIDUALLY on melee.

It is a FACT that there will be a REAL story mode, equipped with movies.

It is a FACT that over 25+ musicians are pouring their heart and soul into the soundtrack.

It is a FACT that we will have a new playable map EV-ER-Y DAY.
and finally...

IT IS A FACT THAT IF YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THESE GOOD THINGS,AND STILL TRY TO FIND SOMETHING WRONG.....

YOU....

ARE

********!

AND THAT'S THE GAME!

THREAD OVER!

Lavisfiend to have my babies pl0x? =O

 

[lookatthatbaconsizzle]

AND THAT'S THE GAME!

THREAD OVER!

Lavisfiend to have my babies pl0x? =O

QFT, except for the babies part.

 

[UltimateN00b]

[Insert random whining]...smashboards would be a dessert, there would be no competitive community.

I lol'd at this.

Smashboards was a competitive community right around the time it was started, and still stands as one today. It's incredibly foolish to say the ENTIRE competitive community would die because ONE of the three games in the Smash Bros. series fails to appeal to the majority of the community. We still have Melee and SSB64, don't we?

 

[NES n00b]

It is also ******** to flame people because they don't share your optimism.

"God I hate you guys because you don't like the same ****ing game as me. You must be such a horrible person. YOU ARE ******** THIS WILL BE THE BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" *All other casuals* "This make perfect sense. I love you"

I hope you all are disappointed with this game so you can get off your high horses.

 

[LavisFiend]

It is also ******** to flame people because they don't share your optimism.

"God I hate you guys because you don't like the same ****ing game as me. You must be such a horrible person. YOU ARE ******** THIS WILL BE THE BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" *All other casuals* "This make perfect sense. I love you"

I hope you all are disappointed with this game so you can get off your high horses.

Nope, I am flaming him because he is trying to bring off his point that without past techs, the games fate is inevitable, that it is going to fail.

I would respect his pessimism, if his pessimism had solid ground and evidence warranting such thoughts...

but it's not. He is just *****ing just to *****.

 

[greenblob]

Again, we're talking about Brawl's potential place in history, not about its potential sales figures.
And again, no one cares that much about a single tech. We're talking about depth in general.
I still can't believe that Brawl will have a competent stand-alone story mode. And even if this is the case, the standards for "greatness" is named "Zelda." There's no way Brawl's story mode will match that.

Yes, Smash will be successful. Yes, it will be fun. Yes, we'll have a blast playing it. And yes, it probably will be one of the best games on the Wii.


...But ten years from now, will Brawl be seen with the same reverence that is associated with StarCraft?

 

[Superstarmario]

Yes there is...

Pessimism based off of a removal of a tech from a past game is stupid. My logic holds merit over his not because of optimism, but because of fact.

It is a FACT that the last two games sold well because of the casual scene, not the competitive scene.

It is a FACT that without techs, the game that the vast majority purchased was replayed because of it's pick-up-and-play scheme, the competitive people rode shotgun.

It is a FACT that this game is having extra effort put in it to make it the best it can be.

It is a FACT that each individual staff member has clocked in over 10,000 matches INDIVIDUALLY on melee.

It is a FACT that there will be a REAL story mode, equipped with movies.

It is a FACT that over 25+ musicians are pouring their heart and soul into the soundtrack.

It is a FACT that we will have a new playable map EV-ER-Y DAY.
and finally...

IT IS A FACT THAT IF YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THESE GOOD THINGS,AND STILL TRY TO FIND SOMETHING WRONG.....

YOU....

ARE

********!

Cut and print. Beautiful. Way to prove my point in the most extreme and mindless fashion. I enjoyed it really.

Because all that good means nothing will be bad right?

Don't answer that.

 

[DragonBlade]

LavisFiend,

All your replies so far have done nothing but insult people, state baseless claims, and state facts that are barely relevant at best. You act like Brawl is your baby, and apparently we are not allowed criticize it. An when we do, you act like you've been unjustly wronged.

Just get out of the thread. I'm sure theres already a thread about wavedashing you can troll in, because you claim thats all this thread is about. Learn to search, thanks.

There are actually a few people who get it and want to have intelligent discussions.

 

[LavisFiend]

Again, we're talking about Brawl's potential place in history, not about its potential sales figures.
And again, no one cares that much about a single tech. We're talking about depth in general.
I still can't believe that Brawl will have a competent stand-alone story mode. And even if this is the case, the standards for "greatness" is named "Zelda." There's no way Brawl's story mode will match that.

Yes, Smash will be successful. Yes, it will be fun. Yes, we'll have a blast playing it. And yes, it probably will be one of the best games on the Wii.


...But ten years from now, will Brawl be seen with the same reverence that is associated with StarCraft?

Anyone with a brain stem can draw a common sense deduction that the Smash story pales in comparison to Mario's single-player history...

but it does not have to rival Mario to be good, it just has to be good.

Once again, this is Smash. The basic formula we know and love is still there. That basic formula is what makes Smash so appealing...

All this ridiculous amount of work going into the title makes it quite apparent that the game has the potential of lasting in the long run.

AFTER ALL...

With a new level everyday and online play, you can always have a fresh and new experience.

 

[LavisFiend]

Cut and print. Beautiful. Way to prove my point in the most extreme and mindless fashion. I enjoyed it really.

Because all that good means nothing will be bad right?

Don't answer that.

What could be "bad" would be small and insignificant in comparison to all the good.

@Dragonblade:

I insult those who deserve it. My claims were right on the money, but you being little miss sand in the *** refuse to acknowledge it. Facts that are, "irrelavent?" Oh...

I see, so OBVIOUSLY the glaring fact that all the hard work exhibited means nothing to you?

...oh....it dosen't? Pft...

Don't worry, i'll leave, i'm done trying to educate numbskulls...

So tell ya what, (cause I KNOW you will) feel free to insult me behind my back, perform your predestined actions like I expect you too like the puppet you are....

I am done, no more posting in this thread....

BACK TO GALAXY XD

 

[WastingPenguins]

smashboards would be a dessert

I would normally never pick on typos but this is my favorite part of your post. Sounds delicious!

matches would air on ESPN often.

Haha, also this.

 

[Chaosblade77]

All of that was bull**** as well. Strict generalizations FTL.

You missed the point, I was not stereotyping the casual players (I mean, I AM one... why would I bash myself?) but saying that his logic was wrong.

All your replies so far have done nothing but insult people, state baseless claims, and state facts that are barely relevant at best. You act like Brawl is your baby, and apparently we are not allowed criticize it. An when we do, you act like you've been unjustly wronged.

Just get out of the thread. I'm sure theres already a thread about wavedashing you can troll in, because you claim thats all this thread is about. Learn to search, thanks.

There are actually a few people who get it and want to have intelligent discussions.

Out of curiosity, how are some of the facts he posted in one of his replies "baseless claims?" You're right, few people are getting it, because you make it sound like the competitive scene is all that makes the game, and without that, the game will be a complete failure.

Once again, I quote:

I thought the baseless optimism and unimaginable hype seemed silly when the game itself seems like it lacks what made the previous game good.

So, if you are not whining about wavedashing and the like being removed/changed, just what is your point?

 

[Team Giza]

due to the improved physics engine and overall game coverage, this game wont have "advanced techniques" that take time and effort to find that are like WD.

Thats why you could still moonwalk, edge cancel, and do that waveland replacement in the Brawl demo right? >.>

But seriously, yeah we should be embracing the changes made, its not like it will lower the games competitive ability too much simply because of the way the smash combat is set up... its still gonna be a tournament worthy game.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It's ironic that those who preach about creator's intent are members who joined in the last few months. Why does anyone care about creator's intent? Why does that influence they way people play?

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Brawl's competitiveness will indeed play a factor to whether or not the game will be great or simply just good. I enjoy the optimism of this forum, however, I dislike how some people come to quick conclusions that this game will revolutionary without the game in their hands.

["Once again, this is Smash. The basic formula we know and love is still there. That basic formula is what makes Smash so appealing..." LavisFiend]

Can you please elaborate what specifically this formula is? Hypothetically we could still be expecting Smash 2.0 with techniques such as the Wave Dash remaining. Smash 2.0 would not be the disappointment as claimed by individuals of this forum if it still had the 'basic formula', correct?

["IT IS A FACT THAT IF YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THESE GOOD THINGS,AND STILL TRY TO FIND SOMETHING WRONG.....YOU....ARE ********!" -LavisFiend]
Your exaggerated 'facts' do not mean that the game will be without flaws. The '********' comment was quite cute, way to attack the person not the argument.

"What could be "bad" would be small and insignificant in comparison to all the good."
This is completely your opinion, don't act as if it was a fact. A small unintentional tweak can create an huge controversy, eg. Wash Dash.

["Don't worry, i'll leave, i'm done trying to educate numbskulls..."]
Although you provide many valid points, it is not mean you have any authority here. We do not need to be 'educated' by you.

 

[Anther]

I actually program games as a past-time to my normal programming projects and whatnot. And there's nothing cooler than someone playing your game, and doing something that you totally didn't expect. Most people that design games and enjoy designing them are hopefully of a creative mindset, and find nothing greater than thinking outside the box. Following the "creators" intent is cool and all, but that's pretty much everything that you've seen while making the game for possibly years. It's pretty awesome for people to mutate ... stuff. got bored of typing about that..

Anyways, when I see brawl vids or whatever, I see everything that melee was, just with tweaks to the general game engine. Far as I'm concerned it is melee 2.0... with a lot of the precision required for a lot of things that players practiced removed. I really don't see what you guys are saying about how different it is, when its the same game with a lot of technical things missing. There's a lot more eye-candy, but it def looks like the same game multiplayer wise.
Cool you can't miss sweetspots anymore... but ... yeah, edgeguarding lost more than it gained from such changes.
Cool you can't turn around and use your neutral b... well not really, at least link can turn around and throw a boomerang while others who rely on that for a retreating projectile.. can't o.O..

I'm glad there's no more fox/falco ridiculousness, but the entire game seems nerfed to me =X. Nothing too bad, but a lot removed for very little new to the formula.
Course, it could mean the game's more balanced in general, so we'll see =D.

 

[Silfa]

A casual player will never think that Brawl is a fatnastic game because the game isn't on a huge competitive level. How could I not see this?

Seriously, you guys won't be the only people deciding whether or not Brawl's a great game. I'm sure there are people who play Smash who don't even know that video games are played competively. Me and my friends were talking about Brawl the other day and we were talking about how awesome SSB on 64 was and is.

Unless there's someone here who's played the complete game for months, I don't think we can start comparing it to StarCraft, Zelda, Half Life or even previous smash games. I know everyone is just predicting and speculating, but I just wanted to metion this.

It will be fun, even if it doesn't go down in history or whatever, I'll enjoy it very much.

 

[Metroid_01]

Congratulations if you disagree, I really don't care enough to debate this with you all. I doubt I would get anywhere when it looks like at least half of you posted without fully understanding what I wrote.

I wrote this because I thought the baseless optimism and unimaginable hype seemed silly when the game itself seems like it lacks what made the previous game good. Although, I do admit that it does have some amazing features, and I will be playing this game for several months. It would be disappointing if it was not able to take Melee's place.

The issue is that you make your statement based on unsupported information. Pretty much every person I know at my school (read: college) plays smash. There are only about 6 players that go to tournaments in this place. I live in the same building as 5 of them. Those other hundreds of people that play (and dont doubt me here, I have heard smash coming from atleast 3 other rooms on my floor, and I know the floor below me has a bunch of people that play) are just having fun. Yes, some of them want to become better, but ultimately they are perfectly happy with playing with their friends to pass some time because its only a passing thing.

Yes, it would be devastating if the game was very shallow, but the game wont loose an ounce of lasting appeal to the masses. Remember, most of the people who are now considered pro did not ever consider the concept of a pro smash community for several years after purchasing the game.

 

[RetroRhythm]

I know this post was not aimed at me, but I figured i'd answer your statements.

Brawl's competitiveness will indeed play a factor to whether or not the game will be great or simply just good. I enjoy the optimism of this forum, however, I dislike how some people come to quick conclusions that this game will revolutionary without the game in their hands.
Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but where do you think all the optimism comes from? Except for the small amount of people who went to E for All, and played the demo, everyone else has not played a single sliver of the game, so the optimism is gathered without having played the game, making your first post post contradictory and hypocritical.

["Once again, this is Smash. The basic formula we know and love is still there. That basic formula is what makes Smash so appealing..." LavisFiend]

Can you please elaborate what specifically this formula is? Hypothetically we could still be expecting Smash 2.0 with techniques such as the Wave Dash remaining. Smash 2.0 would not be the disappointment as claimed by individuals of this forum if it still had the 'basic formula', correct?

I am really surprised you'd be asking this, but I am certain he is talking about how the basic game plays, IE, percentage growth=closer to death and the simplistic yet complicated combat engine. This HAS remained untouched when it comes down to the basics. Wavedash has been removed, this has been confirmed. Find a new example.

["IT IS A FACT THAT IF YOU CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE ALL THESE GOOD THINGS,AND STILL TRY TO FIND SOMETHING WRONG.....YOU....ARE ********!" -LavisFiend]
Your exaggerated 'facts' do not mean that the game will be without flaws. The '********' comment was quite cute, way to attack the person not the argument.
I took it as him calling the people who have the similar mindset as the TC as ********, not JUST the TC. Besides, what he says is true. There is absolutely no reason why people should be so determined to find flaws in the game, because if you continue to try and try, you will find a flaw, and guess who just ruined their experience? It wasn't the guys at Sora, it wasn't Sakurai, it was the pessimistic player, and I can understand where Lavis is coming from because, well, why think so darn negative, ESPECIALLY if it is for reasons that should not exist? As for the exaggerated facts part, they were not exaggerated; they are all completely 100% true.

"What could be "bad" would be small and insignificant in comparison to all the good."
This is completely your opinion, don't act as if it was a fact. A small unintentional tweak can create an huge controversy, eg. Wash Dash.
It kind of is a fact. A casual player for the most part will only see and hear about this if they look for it, and if they don't hear about the technique, the WD is completely useless, as it will never appear in a casual game unless it is researched and practiced. and here is the kicker to the story: Despite the controversy, a person will still play Smash with his friends who don't know about it, as to avoid being subjugated to it again.
So even if there was a technique similar to an advanced tech of old, it will not stop people from playing the game, except for a tiny percent of kids who just love to whine. There is way too much good for any flaw to bring it down, that is a fact.

["Don't worry, i'll leave, i'm done trying to educate numbskulls..."]
Although you provide many valid points, it is not mean you have any authority here. We do not need to be 'educated' by you.

In some ways, I see LavisFiend's statement, though harsh, completely and utterly with reason in doing so. It really IS frustrating to hear all this pessimism with no solid evidence to back it up whatsoever. It is whining, glorified whining, and although I doubt LavisFiend got through to anybody, his message was solid.

Quit b!tching for stupid reasons.