Brawl+ Project Hub: OP updated 4/28 w/expansion pack and why it is necessary

[GHNeko]

And there is no way to figure out how this happens?

 

[Plum]

Well after playing on the stage long enough, I know the exact spot on the stage that can KO you, and it will only happen when the stage flips. To be honest, a player should know where and when the stage could KO you. It is completely your fault if the stage KO's you, because you have all the ability in the world to avoid it, at least that's my stance. If your opponent puts you in a situation where the stage will KO you, then I would also say your opponent earned that KO, because again you could have avoided it through different DI, avoiding a grab, not missing a tech, or whatever else the opponent could have done to put you in that one spot on the stage as it flips.

You didn't ban a stage like Delphino that can kill you at 0 percent as the stage transforms.
You should know exactly when Delphino can kill you and how to avoid it, and the same can be said for Frigate. You can argue that Frigate doesn't belong because you are going with an extremely conservative stage list, but I don't consider the stage killing you to be valid based purely on the fact that as a player you should know exactly how it happens because it isn't random.

I just bring all of this up because I'm personally not a fan of overly conservative stage lists, or at least what I would consider to be overly conservative. I've always supported unique counterpicks because of what it offers the CP system.

 

[MK26]

Regardless of timing and location, no stage should OHKO you.

No johns

 

[Veril]

Bio just ***** you in every orifice. New orifices had to be created for the amount of **** he unleashed. Orifices were actually imported from far away lands to fill the growing demand.

Just, accept that a tournament like Apex has a higher standard for the stages. Saying "no Johns" is not an argument for including an additional stage in a list that was designed to be simple and small.

@Picto wind: I think that people who genuinely believe the wind renders the stage non-viable mechanically are morons. btw Check out Chibo's ruleset thread for many examples how not to construct an argument. Man... f*** that noise. I can't even bring myself to go back into that thread. BUT the wind is disruptive and undesirable in that it breaks the flow of the match (much like Orpheon does except Orpheon is 10 times worse). Since its a hacked stage we can certainly take it out, but that's something I would probably leave up to Frozen for now... there's plenty of time to determine the validity of the complaints. Some people genuinely like the wind.

 

[MK26]

by posting "did we fix this?" and a flawed video, then saying "no stage should OHKO you"? I don't think so. If anything, you should respond to Plum's posts, because he's making coherent arguments and I'm not bothering to QFT what he says...

Basically, I can see some random playing you in tourney and CPing Delfino, just to get told "that stage is banned in singles."
Then walking off and laughing at the sheer ridiculousness of that fact.
Unless all your randoms share the EC mindset...in which case, the joke's on me

w/e

EDIT: and the chat's down so i cant even talk to you there

 

[GHNeko]

Having DP banned in Singles would surprise more people than you actually believe.

 

[Veril]

If some random did that I'd just ask for them to be DQed for leaving a match and they'd lose their money for being a moron. Also anyone ballzy enough to laugh in my face, in person... LOL I can and will embarrass anyone who does that. Arguing with me is a lot more friendly than arguing with Cape, but I can assure you if someone laughed in my face that would change immediately.

People will be more surprised when they see they can't plank anymore than by anything in any stagelist.

 

[Plum]

Bio just ***** you in every orifice. New orifices had to be created for the amount of **** he unleashed. Orifices were actually imported from far away lands to fill the growing demand.

Just, accept that a tournament like Apex has a higher standard for the stages. Saying "no Johns" is not an argument for including an additional stage in a list that was designed to be simple and small.

So Apex requires a standard higher than the stages Apex uses?

Again... If Frigate Orpheon is banned I make a motion that we also ban Delphino on the grounds that it can kill your character regardless of the percents.
Obviously we simply can't expect players to know that the act of charging an attack, grabbing an opponent, rolling, or throwing an item (ie banana, gyro or turnip) can cause you to fall through the stage as it moves from transformation to transformation. Nope. Players can't be expected to know the stages they play on in and out, including any potential glitch that is 100% avoidable on their part. Banning Delphino is the only solution. /sarcasm

The stagelist looks overly conservative for the sake of being exactly that. I live here in NY, and I would be shocked to not see a stage like Rainbow Cruise, Lylat, or Delphino not on the list. As a player, I would also expect to see stages that I can play on in the main event to show up in B+. What in B+ makes these stages bad in the transition from vBrawl to B+? The stages haven't changed, and gameplay isn't so radically different that the way stages function is different either.

EDIT:
I don't mean to sound like an ***... which I probably came off as in that post.
Just stressed out over AP's and a death in my family.

 

[Isatis]

Well after playing on the stage long enough, I know the exact spot on the stage that can KO you, and it will only happen when the stage flips. To be honest, a player should know where and when the stage could KO you. It is completely your fault if the stage KO's you, because you have all the ability in the world to avoid it, at least that's my stance. If your opponent puts you in a situation where the stage will KO you, then I would also say your opponent earned that KO, because again you could have avoided it through different DI, avoiding a grab, not missing a tech, or whatever else the opponent could have done to put you in that one spot on the stage as it flips.

You didn't ban a stage like Delphino that can kill you at 0 percent as the stage transforms.
You should know exactly when Delphino can kill you and how to avoid it, and the same can be said for Frigate. You can argue that Frigate doesn't belong because you are going with an extremely conservative stage list, but I don't consider the stage killing you to be valid based purely on the fact that as a player you should know exactly how it happens because it isn't random.

I just bring all of this up because I'm personally not a fan of overly conservative stage lists, or at least what I would consider to be overly conservative. I've always supported unique counterpicks because of what it offers the CP system.

Good point and I will be reconsidering banning Frigate.

The only thing I can see with differences between Frigate and Delfino is that Frigate requires you to stand or walk at a certain point in the match as the 5-second timer goes DING! and flips. All characters are doomed at any percent.

Then you have Delfino's glitch (I'm guessing from what I see myself) where if you get hit by an attack on a slanted slope just as the rising layer falls, the game still thinks you're on that layer and pulls you through, and it also depends on the transformation. Those with good horizontal recoveries than recover from that, while those that have poor horizontal ones fall to their deaths.

However, the rule that on a person's counterpick if both players agree to the stage, then they can play on it still stands and I'm making sure people know. I'm pretty sure if a person wants to counterpick Delfino Plaza in singles and their opponent is OK with it, then there's not too much of a problem.

Bio just ***** you in every orifice. New orifices had to be created for the amount of **** he unleashed. Orifices were actually imported from far away lands to fill the growing demand.

Just, accept that a tournament like Apex has a higher standard for the stages. Saying "no Johns" is not an argument for including an additional stage in a list that was designed to be simple and small.

@Picto wind: I think that people who genuinely believe the wind renders the stage non-viable mechanically are morons. btw Check out Chibo's ruleset thread for many examples how not to construct an argument. Man... f*** that noise. I can't even bring myself to go back into that thread. BUT the wind is disruptive and undesirable in that it breaks the flow of the match (much like Orpheon does except Orpheon is 10 times worse). Since its a hacked stage we can certainly take it out, but that's something I would probably leave up to Frozen for now... there's plenty of time to determine the validity of the complaints. Some people genuinely like the wind.

I what? O_o Still listening to suggestions though...

For the Pictochat, I don't even find it distracting, so I could care less about that transformation.

by posting "did we fix this?" and a flawed video, then saying "no stage should OHKO you"? I don't think so. If anything, you should respond to Plum's posts, because he's making coherent arguments and I'm not bothering to QFT what he says...

Basically, I can see some random playing you in tourney and CPing Delfino, just to get told "that stage is banned in singles."
Then walking off and laughing at the sheer ridiculousness of that fact.
Unless all your randoms share the EC mindset...in which case, the joke's on me

w/e

EDIT: and the chat's down so i cant even talk to you there

When the MBR released their ruleset with the conservative stage list, I honestly doubt there was that much backlash... I still see a lot of Melee TO's in different regions use the MBR one, unlike Brawl's one where it varies from liberal in the WC/MW to conservative in the EC.

 

[Isatis]

Unnecessary bump, but Alex Strife wants me to hold a community discussion on the stage list in the Brawl+ competitive stage thread, and I'm likely to use input to change it so I can make changes and finalize it pretty soon, so on Saturday I should be posting the APEX 2010 ruleset and stagelist and explain why I'm using the stage list I am now.

I also need people to stop this "oh well here's my stage list it's better than APEX" bull**** because not only are you not helping, but it's annoying when you could simply debate and give suggestions to me and come up with a stage list all of us can agree to. There will be no perfect stage list, but the amount of drama over this is absurd. The only two people that have completely dissected this stage list and convinced me thus far are The Cape and Plum.

 

[Shell]

Oi, Veril. I've been hella busy these last couple months and I don't really think that I'm qualified to be called a part of the B+ BR -- of course I'd still like to help out coding things when I can (more time over the summer in another two weeks?). I would've liked to help put some extra polish on 7.0's coding and animations even though I don't play much (and not nearly enough to be participating in most votes) but it is unfortunate that release happened to coincide with the end of semester push here.

 

[Cia]

apparently this didn't go through last time i posted it (502 bad gateway johns) but here it is now:

I resign from the brawl+ project

 

[FrozenHobo]

aw... why?

 

[Glick]

The final game comes out and everybody quits.

MAD IRONIC LOL


There is going to be no serious pressure for some time. Why does everyone need to flip out?