Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 Brawl, More Hyped Than Tekken?

[TheReflexWonder]

For example lets look at the defensive options in each game

Tekken: hold back (block)

Smash: Shield, spot-dodge, roll, tech, perfect shield, shield-grab, DI

Lets look at the offensive options:

Tekken: High hit, medium hit, low hit, grab, special moves???? counters??

Smash: Forward smash, down-smash, up-smash, neutral a, f-air,b-air,d-air,up-air,up-b,down-b, side-b, grab, pivot grab, pummeling, f-tilt,d-tilt, up-tilt, neutral b,

Tekken technically has low blocking, high blocking, left sidestep, right sidestep, back dash, jumping, and counter moves for defense.

Also, for attacking, Brawl has Smashes, tilts, jab, grab, aerials, and special moves, for all realistic singled out terms.

There's the equivalent of jabbing, high throws, low throws, high/mid/low attacks, unblockable hits, as well as positioning in general, due to sidestepping/backdashing. There's a fair amount to think about

 

[ETWIST51294]

As opposed to the ugly as hell combos that exist in Tekken? No thanks.

LOL Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce. Except King who is just grab grab grab grab grab grab grab grab grab.

U mad 'cause Mleee wasn't there.

TurboEther plays Brawl IIRC. >_>

and Shadyfoo, I'm not gonna lie, you sound like you don't really know what you're terms of Tekken.

 

[shadyf0o]

Tekken technically has low blocking, high blocking, left sidestep, right sidestep, back dash, jumping, and counter moves for defense.

Also, for attacking, Brawl has Smashes, tilts, jab, grab, and special moves, for all realistic singled out terms.

There's the equivalent of jabbing, high throws, low throws, high/mid/low attacks, unblockable hits, as well as positioning in general, due to sidestepping/backdashing. There's a fair amount to think about

Thanks for the clarification. I knew somebody would chime in with specifics.

 

[shadyf0o]

LOL Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce. Except King who is just grab grab grab grab grab grab grab grab grab.


TurboEther plays Brawl IIRC. >_>

and Shadyfoo, I'm not gonna lie, you sound like you don't really know what you're terms of Tekken.

Because I really don't lol. I'm not pretending to.

I'm actually going to erase that last part of my post, because that's all people are going to pay attention to lol

 

[ETWIST51294]

It's aright, I don't know **** about Tekken either. lol

 

[Leafplayer452]

Better than no combos, lol.

Edit: Btw, someone with your mindgames would be amazing at Tekken, because 3D fighters reward creative mixups significantly.

Umm, dont 3d fighters suck? lol, nah but Tekken sucks, MLG should of chosen Soul Calibur if they was gonna pick a 3d fighter

 

[Sucumbio]

Tekken and Brawl are difficult to compare. Tekken and VF are more comparable, and VF is deeper than Tekken b/c of the stage differences in VF (ringouts, cage matches, etc). They both focus on a "pop-up" system which leads to a "juggle" or string of hits that you cannot break out of. In Brawl, there are extremely short juggles, literal 1-hit or 2-hits max. They're not even really juggles, the closest thing is a chain grab and only some characters can do that effectively (and legally as it were). This makes Smash on the surface more complex. In Tekken or VF every match and matchup boils down to who gets popped up first. In smash the match boils down to who was able to not get hit the best, thus maintaining a lower % dmg while also not succumbing to gimps AND not getting timed out! The trade off is that TK and VF employ unique movement inputs for each character in addition to standard move sets and then unique 10-string combos to boot (several per character). Lots of moves... Brawl's shield system also adds to its depth, in Tekken you AUTOMATICALLY block just by standing (if hit with a standard high or mid hit, not a block breaker or low)... in smash your shield can weaken and even break leaving you wide open, in Tekken you can block with literally 1 hp left and indefinitely. Yeah I never thought I'd say it but smash is actually far deeper than Tekken. And of course neither is super balanced, there always emerges a handful of characters that stand a better chance at winning a matchup over others.

All that said I love both games. I have technically been playing smash now longer than I played tekken, but I have played tekken competitively unlike smash which I play only casually. It's quite similar in many aspects. Both games require hours of practice to get good, tons of matchup experience, experimenting with tricks and tactics, and dead on fast reflexes. The difficulty I see many having with TK and the like is that matches tend to be one sided, once popped up, it's over, whereas smash seems to have been engineered to nullify this (or at least make it a LOT harder to stock your opponent with true consecutive hits).

 

[wowoduend]

I sorta like Tekken, but i have heard nothing from its competitive scenes. And Tekken has like.....300 movesets per character. Why should i memorize a crap load of moveset of one character? Blah....i love my street fighter.

Tekken Tag was the best Tekken game.

Umm, dont 3d fighters suck? lol, nah but Tekken sucks, MLG should of chosen Soul Calibur if they was gonna pick a 3d fighter

Naruto Clash of Ninja is a legit 3D fighter :x

 

[fkacyan]

World of Warcraft is the best game ever then.

I HAVE TRAVELED HERE FROM THE YEAR 1991 TO SAY

Yeah pretty much

 

[Tarmogoyf]

I HAVE TRAVELED HERE FROM THE YEAR 1991 TO SAY

Yeah pretty much

You can't argue with millions of people. I don't even like wow, but millions of people> the like 100k Competitive smash players (the same way smash>tekken)

 

[Turbo Ether]

U mad 'cause Mleee wasn't there.

Thinking that Brawl is a fundementally flawed mess, doesn't make me pro-Melee. I do believe that Melee is clearly a superior, but I have no interest in it anymore.

Seriously though, we're over two years into Brawl. This game's flaws are well documented on this website. Between Melee players and the hacking community, a large portion of the Smash community don't even acknowledge Brawl as a quality game. It's questionable to suggest that Brawl is a superior tournament game than actual legit fighting games, that are actually developed with the intent of being competitive (unlike Brawl). Hell, random tripping alone disqualifies Brawl from being superior to Tekken.

 

[Dekar173]

If you are one of the 7 Tekken entrants, please step up to the front for 3v3s! You don't wanna be the unlucky player to be left out do you?!?!

 

[Turbo Ether]

^

Have fun getting planked by MK!

Wait, nvm, you guys instituted a ledge grab limit. Lol, the Brawl community has to ban strategies. Either way, screw Tekken and Brawl. SSF4 is here.

 

[ph00tbag]

Oh for the love of...

NO fighting game EVER has been about the depth of their "combo" system. Combos are just flashy rewards for a skillful or intelligent action. How good a game is is based on the depth of the system that determines what those skillful or intelligent actions are. Basically when someone says one fighting game is bad because it has "autocombos," they show that they don't understand the core fighting system.

Brawl is bad because it's core fighting system inherently contradicts itself in several aspects. The fact that it's pretty much zero combos and all okizeme really just makes it slower than most other games. That in itself turns a lot of people off, but it's not necessarily bad. It's also not necessarily good. The only thing that matters is that its core system was simply not designed with competition in mind, and unlike Melee, it did not get lucky.

Interestingly, Brawl does have combos, but the combos it has are frankly worse than Tekken combos.

 

[RATED]

^
SSF4 is here.

he won. SF is just awesome. but yeah Tekken is ok.

 

[Dekar173]

And after SSF4, MVC3 comes out, and after that, I'm pretty sure BB's got something else coming, and then a revamped SSF4, and so on and so on.



I'll stick with Brawl and not break my bank trying to keep up with the fighters of the month :O

 

[Turbo Ether]

To each his own.

 

[Pierce7d]

To those of you that think Brawl doesn't have combos, you're doing it wrong.

MK has combos
Snake has combos, which require set-up, but have massive reward.
Falco has combos
IC's have more than just combos
Wario has combos, though not many
Diddy has combos
Marth has combos
Pikachu, Luigi, etc.

Name me a character that isn't low tier (because we know Ike, Ganon, Bowser are heavy and don't have many combos) who doesn't have combos. Oh, and not D3, because his CG makes up for his lack of combos. He is the heavy grabber of this game, most fighters have such a character.

Also, the amount of options some characters can cover after landing certain hits is ridiculous. Giving a skillful player a small, but narrow chance to escape a string, hence rewarding a skillful player for making good reads and continuing it seems pretty darn good to me. I think Brawl's system is amazing. I actually think Sakurai is a genius.

 

[CRASHiC]

D3 has combos. He can do down air-down air- up air at certain percentages.

 

[Allied]

D3 has combos. He can do down air-down air- up air at certain percentages.

wat

neverknows!

 

[CRASHiC]

His most practicle combo is neutral air into uptilt.

 

[Turbo Ether]

To those of you that think Brawl doesn't have combos, you're doing it wrong.

MK has combos
Snake has combos, which require set-up, but have massive reward.
Falco has combos
IC's have more than just combos
Wario has combos, though not many
Diddy has combos
Marth has combos
Pikachu, Luigi, etc.

Name me a character that isn't low tier (because we know Ike, Ganon, Bowser are heavy and don't have many combos) who doesn't have combos. Oh, and not D3, because his CG makes up for his lack of combos. He is the heavy grabber of this game, most fighters have such a character.

Also, the amount of options some characters can cover after landing certain hits is ridiculous. Giving a skillful player a small, but narrow chance to escape a string, hence rewarding a skillful player for making good reads and continuing it seems pretty darn good to me. I think Brawl's system is amazing. I actually think Sakurai is a genius.

When I say "no combos", I generally mean that combos are scarce(particularly after super low percents) and/or impractical. Wolf can combo out of FF Upair at extremely low percents, but it's so unsafe to try this, that he might as well not have the option in the first place. He can combo out of Dtilt trip, but it requires pure luck and a low percent opponent. Snake can combo out of Ftilt 1 trip, but again, it requires massive luck.

In a game like Tekken there are Counter Hits that reward good timing with modified hitstun or bonus move properties. If you want modified move properties (tripping) in Brawl, you have to get lucky and hope you don't trip yourself during the follow up.

Aggression is not nearly rewarding enough in Brawl. Defensive options are too effective, which is why people can Plank, Scrooge, run away for 8 minutes with Wario, constantly powershield by accident, and grab armor through shield pressure. So much undeserved reward, it's infuriating.

I also think 2D and 3D fighters have superior guarding systems and rounds > stocks, but that's another story for another day.

I hope Project:M is good.

 

[CRASHiC]

Defense versus Offense is all perspective. Personally, I'll pick a Sagat fireball war over ANY Tekken match any day. I find that **** horribly exciting, and watching the strategies unfold and the momentum shift in a blink of an eye in such a way, it turns me on.

 

[shadyf0o]

Name me a character that isn't low tier (because we know Ike, Ganon, Bowser are heavy and don't have many combos) who doesn't have combos. Oh, and not D3, because his CG makes up for his lack of combos. He is the heavy grabber of this game, most fighters have such a character.

I think Brian proved d3 does have combos in Orlando haha. 6 back airs ftw

 

[shadyf0o]

Defense versus Offense is all perspective. Personally, I'll pick a Sagat fireball war over ANY Tekken match any day. I find that **** horribly exciting, and watching the strategies unfold and the momentum shift in a blink of an eye in such a way, it turns me on.

I love SF4, but I gotta disagree on that one. I feel like my eyes are going to bleed watching Sagat fireball standoffs.

edit: woops, double post.

 

[CRASHiC]

I love it, love it to death. My favorite match at SBO was Tiger Versus Tiger. One kept inching forward, taking damage on occasion to inch himself forward, closing in on the distance between his and his opponent, and eventually he had him trapped in the corner, and pulled off some amazing Ultra setups that no one else knew worked. Clever use of the EX fireball is the key to the matchup, as is knowing when to take damage, and what to do once one of the Sagat's finally starts to approach.

I enjoyed that far more than the final, Wong versus the best Viper.

 

[shadyf0o]

I love it, love it to death. My favorite match at SBO was Tiger Versus Tiger. One kept inching forward, taking damage on occasion to inch himself forward, closing in on the distance between his and his opponent, and eventually he had him trapped in the corner, and pulled off some amazing Ultra setups that no one else knew worked. Clever use of the EX fireball is the key to the matchup, as is knowing when to take damage, and what to do once one of the Sagat's finally starts to approach.

I enjoyed that far more than the final, Wong versus the best Viper.

dang.....I have an urge to pop in streetfighter now lol.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Tekken sucks tru fax.

They need to have MvC2 at MLG **** would be mad hype. MvC2 FTW isn't it obvious?

 

[fatalsolid01]

Naruto Clash of Ninja is a legit 3D fighter :x

This. Its my 2nd favorite fighting game after smash

 

[-LzR-]

Brawls lack of many true combos is IMO a good thing. You can still combo safely or mindgame risky. If I always have a chance to escape it's better. It not very fun to get a punch in the face and then watch him beat you to death wit NO CHANCE to escape like in many other fighters.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Well I'm not sure if I should turn this back into a hype thread or what...

I'll just say what I meant to say before Brawl vs Tekken

Smash has a great community and now that it seems we're finally starting to avoid trolling each other on the Melee vs Brawl thing we're starting to grow even more as a community. We've got this brotherhood and this unity that not many other communities seem to have and I'm not sure if it's because of our roster being complete fanservice, or us being isolated from the other big communities, or just because there's no game out there like our game with such depth (Brawl AND Melee, because, you know brawl has a lot of depth still as a standalone game) but whatever it is it really makes us closeknit. Our hype is always gonna be through the roof, our game is easy to understand and entertaining to watch (Obviously when nobody is planking and stuff like that)

There's no doubt in my mind we had more hype than Halo. Wish I went, I would have loved to do some screaming, and I'm pretty chill

 

[SpongeJordan]

If I wanted to play Tekken competitively, I would. Unfortunately, I don't, therefore, I don't play it.

Aggression is not nearly rewarding enough in Brawl. Defensive options are too effective, which is why people can Plank, Scrooge, run away for 8 minutes with Wario, constantly powershield by accident, and grab armor through shield pressure. So much undeserved reward, it's infuriating.

I enjoy the defensive nature of Brawl.

Also, how do you power shield on accident?

 

[Unlimited]

Lol, horrible argument. Brawl is the worst, yet most popular competitive fighter in the United States. There's a reason it gets no respect from other communities.

Edit: People, PM me if you disagree or whatever, instead of quoting me.

QTF serisouly. Brawl is just popular because it's easy to be good at it. Brawl is smalltime.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

QTF serisouly. Brawl is just popular because it's easy to be good at it. Brawl is smalltime.

Yeah it's easy to get good in brawl.....I'm glad I see you winning so many tournaments mangz. Good thing you took MLG. Your logic is flawed LoL. It's a lot of easier to be good at the traditional fighters than it is brawl because in traditional fighters you just need to memorize combos and in some games you can easily keep people in one combo.

 

[Sterowent]

Also, how do you power shield on accident?

well, not that i have a stake in this convo, but you see in brawl there's this thing called 'buffer', which makes it so that if you're still doing an action and input another action, within a specific amount of time, that input you made will happen as early as possible after the ongoing action finishes. ike is shielding, he's hit by a strong move and is knocked off the edge. while shielding the attack, though, he hit A. ike is now offstage doing a nair. buffer. (edit: melee has buffer too, but in specific situations, would rather not get into that though)

in brawl, the same thing happens with any input, so if you try to shield, your input is saved, if within the timeframe the buffer allows. thus, the moment you possibly can, you shield. in brawl, this causes many power shields, often not intentionally.

mmk, and i'm out

 

[Blacknight99923]

all combos do realistically is provide ways to do more damage in a shorter amount of time and make matches shorter. all brawls "lack" of combos do is increase the number of times you must make a better option over your oppenent to win.

It really is simply a flashy animation diffrence.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Yeah it's easy to get good in brawl.....I'm glad I see you winning so many tournaments mangz. Good thing you took MLG. Your logic is flawed LoL. It's a lot of easier to be good at the traditional fighters than it is brawl because in traditional fighters you just need to memorize combos and in some games you can easily keep people in one combo.

Uh, no, I disagree. For one, the execution barrier is significantly higher in, say, SF4, where the top players are using brutally difficult 1-frame links as BnB.

 

[Sucumbio]

all combos do realistically is provide ways to do more damage in a shorter amount of time and make matches shorter. all brawls "lack" of combos do is increase the number of times you must make a better option over your oppenent to win.

It really is simply a flashy animation diffrence.

I agree with the first part but it's not as simple as flashy animation differences. In TK a juggle is your key to victory. Without it you don't stand a chance against someone who knows how to juggle you. And every attack = an opportunity to get popped up if you miss, which leads to a juggle. Learning how to bait your opponent into wiffing their pop-up so you can land yours without also wiffing becomes a mind numbing blow for blow exchange that can last for a long time, even long enough to time the match out (which is why we always played with infinite timer whenever friendlies). You could try the smash approach, and just camp, but the reward isn't nearly as guaranteed to be in your favor by doing this. Pressure games are HUGE in TK, because there's a lot less to lose by attacking constantly (so long as they're smart attacks). Having high/mid/low ranges = 3 different planes of attacks, having left/right fists and feet = 4 planes of attacks, that's 12 total planes of attacks, and that's just move 1, as many of TK's moves employ 3-5 consecutive hits, like 1-1-2-1 (high punch left, high punch left, high punch right, high punch left)... if after pop-up (df-1) that's 5 hits, and maybe you can follow with a 3 or 4 or 3-4 or 3-4-d4, lol it gets ridiculous fast. And having no projectiles makes camping really a bad idea, as TK's grab system is generic except for specialists (Nina, King, etc).

 

[Blacknight99923]

tbh I can't debate with you on this as i have never played tekken, as well as I probably did overgeneralize combos, in my opinion all they do is simply make it so 1 attack leads to a lot more garunteed damage. while this isn't true for all fighters ie: melee (with DI iirc I was on a competive/casual melee player) and say BB (barrier burst) its generally the case within fighters.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Uh, no, I disagree. For one, the execution barrier is significantly higher in, say, SF4, where the top players are using brutally difficult 1-frame links as BnB.

I don't know the frame data in SF4 how can you give me an example with vid or some of these 1 frame BnB's. I also understand that some of the combos are hard to execute however, there are players like Jwong and Diago who are at the point where they will rarely drop combos if they ever do. The only difference is how safe they are with their characters and executing. A lot of that stuff just simply because muscle memory. It may be difficult learning for the first week or so but after a while you'll be doing combo's like the pros. It's not as difficult as you make it out to be.