Brawl meant to be a party game? An in depth analysis considering both POV's

[pockyD]

tripping is fun for no one

even for a non-competitive player, i'm sure it's funny once or twice, then gets old verrry quickly

 

[ErciChewman]

I'm starting to think that Andy Koffman is still alive...under the alias of Masahiro Sakurai.

 

[Spellman]

"derr wat do u meen not saym levl, it wil b moor competitive cuz Brawl=awsum!"

Yes, because we're all ********.

 

[SolidSonic]

The game just screamed "Imma party game pretending to be a fighter!11" the second I put the disk in. Kinda scared me.

If it's a party game, or if it's not, who the hell cares? Is it FUN?

Woah calm down there scooter, you nearly stabbed mah eyes out with yo caps lock.

To answer your question.. err.. The people who wanted it to be a fighter that actually had depth? Yes its fun but not nearly as fun as it could have been, had they given it depth.

 

[Skazryk]

All the smash bros games were meant to be played with your friends in a fun environment, I think that Sakurai is insulted that weve exploited glitches in his masterpieces to our advantage for competitive play.

 

[cyclone248i]

To be honest, I trip mebe like twice a day cuz I don't ground ***** like in Melee.

While tripping pisses me off like we didn't know that Brawl needed to be air oriented, I think it can be worked around.

 

[ErciChewman]

Yes, because we're all ********.

I specifically said "scrubs keep saying..."

Now ask yourself "Am I a scrub?"

If the answer is "Yes", then you can deduce whether or not you're a ******.

 

[Spellman]

I specifically said "scrubs keep saying..."

Now ask yourself "Am I a scrub?"

If the answer is "Yes", then you can deduce whether or not you're a ******.

Kinda thought you meant that only scrubs think this game is more competitive than Melee.

 

[Plairnkk]

Only scrubs do think this game is more competitive than melee.

Anyway, i went to a fest today with like 8 returning ssbm players and 8 new "brawl" smash players.

I didn't lose a single match with either of my two top characters. 1v1 or 2v2, with random teammates. ****. XD

 

[ErciChewman]

You missed my point then. I'm talking about levels of competition. "More" or "Less" is merely based on popularity, not substance. What makes melee competitive, is not what makes Brawl competitive, they are two different entities(lol tities).


but yes, if anyone does think that Brawls substance makes it more competitive, then they are indeed scrubs as plank said.

 

[TomH]

I think one of the important things to remember about brawl is that simplicity was at its core. The purpose was that you didnt need to remember button mashing combos to be good at the game, it was assumed that you were in control of your character, and it was the mind games that really played into who the best player was.

Let me preface this by saying that although I wasnt ever as good at the game as Plairnkk by a long shot, I was pretty good at these techniques, and from a subjective standpoint i was sad to see all my practice go down the drain, but from an objective standpoint, here is what i think:

L Cancelling being gone --- Good. It isnt like you ever *want* to have more lag. Why not just auto L cancel? As I say, I believe the core of the game is that you are in control of your character, and being good is really knowing WHAT happens when you do these moves, and how to react. and then it becomes a mind game.

Jump cancelling gone--- Good...kind of. Before you needed to jump, and then CANCEL the jump and do an upsmash, clearly they didnt mean for you to upsmash while running. Now you can just Cstick the smash. this is good because you shouldnt need to learn a technique to do this, either they should not have it, or they should have it, and it should be easy to do. I actually think the whole point behind running is that you CANT smash, just like how you cant shoot when you are running in FPSes most of the time. However i realize how limiting this is, but if they hadnt gotten rid of wavedashing, this wouldnt be a problem...which leads me into my next point...

Wavedashing--- Wavedashing in its previous form was stupid. Dodge diagonally into the ground? give me a break. I think that they should have implemented somethign to replace WDing, because the lack of it is definatly noticable in gameplay. I cant move towards someone while facing backwards, I cant even play as characters with bad rolls. I thought the whole WD---> Dsmash stuff was kind of garbage in the old game, but SOMETHING should have replaced it, and the fact that nothing did means we are way better off when WDing was in the game.

Auto sweet spot--- nice try, it didnt work, why didnt it get cut? Ever try playing on corneria? KILL ME. It was an attempt at making the game easier for noobs since the good people can sweet spot whenever they want, but the thing is that for lots of characters it didnt help, and for the rest, it just took out mindgames. they should have just put a button in, like if you press B again after pressing up B, then it auto sweet spots, but if you dont press it, it doesnt.

dash dancing-- is stupid. at least thats my opinion...

Light shield--- well god **** it, at least let my shield COME OUT when i try to light shield. you know how often i get hit when i go to light shield and NO shield comes out? I dont get it. just stupid. Put light shield on L, regular shield on R, then it wont be an advanced technique anymore.

rolling for ledgeguarding--- GOOD, move in the right direction. holding on to an edge and abusing your invincibility frames to kill someone is stupid. I wish they had taken this out completely. You should only be able to edgehog if they dont hit you with their B up. yes, i know this would buff people with good spikes, but then they should just give other people things to even it out again.

directional Air dodge -- impartial. I think multi dodge is nice, and you have no idea how many times i died when i tried to tech and then bounced on the ground and air dodged off the edge as falco... however, the inability to use it for recovery is suckyness. another move that they should have replaced somehow like wavedashing, although i have no particular thought in my mind.

power shielding (reflector)--- extremely torn. anti camping is always good, but the thing is that its too hard to do, and its too overpowered if you are good at it. there is a reason some people were given reflectors and some werent. I guess im minorly in favor of it, but i could be convinced otherwise.

CC-- getting rid of this is stupid, it isnt like its hard to do... and it makes the game more dynamic.

inability to move after grabbing edge --- the worst thing about this game, period, end of story. you are basically screwed whenever you grab the edge, which is imposible to avoid since you have magnets attached to your hands. if i could change one thing, this is the one.

 

[kevc]

Nintendo.com reconized them both as fighting games.

and in many respects 64 and melee had a lot of aspects which could make it a good competitive fighter.


Looking at whats in brawl, it's almost like sakurai hates competitive gamers. lol

i can see why if he did, i mean theres alot of pompous ******* competitive gamers that post around here who talk in a very condescending way to people who dont share the same opinion of melee/brawl as them

 

[Plairnkk]

i can see why if he did, i mean theres alot of pompous ******* competitive gamers that post around here who talk in a very condescending way to people who dont share the same opinion of melee/brawl as them

that's because there's a lot of ignorant ******* casual gamers around here who talk in a very unintelligent way as if they know anything about the game to people who have way more knowledge and experience of melee/brawl than them.

 

[masterbraz]

super armor needs to be added to the list of physics for brawl. I see it a huge help to slow characters with laggy moves. Also it pushes players to really know the timing of their moves.

 

[kevc]

that's because there's a lot of ignorant ******* casual gamers around here who talk in a very unintelligent way as if they know anything about the game to people who have way more knowledge and experience of melee/brawl than them.

good point

 

[ErciChewman]

dash dancing-- is stupid. at least thats my opinion....

I saw this one line, and thus ignored the rest of your post.

Seriously, DDing is probably more important than wave dashing, at least with many characters. It's only the number one thing that embodies mindgames in melee. Ask Isai what his definition of melee is.....well, since you can't, this is what it would be like:

You: "Isai, what's the definition of melee?"
Isai: *puts up his hands and wiggles his index fingers back and forth*

 

[Plairnkk]

good point

why thank you

 

[arrowhead]

oops. double post

 

[arrowhead]

L Cancelling being gone --- Good. It isnt like you ever *want* to have more lag. Why not just auto L cancel? As I say, I believe the core of the game is that you are in control of your character, and being good is really knowing WHAT happens when you do these moves, and how to react. and then it becomes a mind game.

instead of cutting down lag and getting rid of l-cancelling, they just got rid of l-cancelling. almost every character is now much more laggy and some airiels are almost unusable because of the lag.

Jump cancelling gone--- Good...kind of. Before you needed to jump, and then CANCEL the jump and do an upsmash, clearly they didnt mean for you to upsmash while running. Now you can just Cstick the smash. this is good because you shouldnt need to learn a technique to do this, either they should not have it, or they should have it, and it should be easy to do. I actually think the whole point behind running is that you CANT smash, just like how you cant shoot when you are running in FPSes most of the time. However i realize how limiting this is, but if they hadnt gotten rid of wavedashing, this wouldnt be a problem...which leads me into my next point...

upsmashing is now easier out of a dash. but it's impossible to fsmash or dsmash now.

ledgeguarding--- GOOD, move in the right direction. holding on to an edge and abusing your invincibility frames to kill someone is stupid. I wish they had taken this out completely. You should only be able to edgehog if they dont hit you with their B up. yes, i know this would buff people with good spikes, but then they should just give other people things to even it out again.

edge hogging is almost useless against anyone who isn't olmar, ZSS or ivysaur

 

[DarkKnight077]

Brawl is trying to be likr KoF and it fails hard. KoF is one of those fighters where it is actually slow, the gameplay nature is actually slow unlike SF III where the game picks up or hell even MVC2. Brawl decided to go back to it's roots on Smash 64 instead of making an improvement to Melee which was stupid. SF III build upon SF II and make a **** good game.

Brawl just tries to hard to be a traditional fighter and it fails.

 

[BDAOutlaw]

So what? we supposed to stop playing it competitively now? and go back to melee? What are you brawl haters trying to get out of this.

1.5months after JP release and you say we know enough because of the obvious limitations,

Was L canceling and wave dashing dicovered immediatly to melee' s release? (seriosuly i dont know) from the 4+ different tier list I'm pretty sure fox and falco being at the top now, werent at the beginning of melees life span. Sombody dig up the archives see how many haters melee recieved when it first came out.


If you want a New Competitive smash why don't all you whiney bishes gather and
L2PROGRAM!!! and get on making a smash specifically for the wagon of whiners cause its to late for brawl from what this threads saying.

Just give up, its Over......stop playing Brawl and GL with melee continuing on in the future............






yah.....

 

[ChewyChase]

I'd have to say I agree that this game as a whole is way less competitive. Reading the Dojo from the beginning, the Dev. Team and Sakurai make it whole-heartedly apparent to anyone with a brain that this game is not competitive, it is a fun, complex, party game.

What we needed in Brawl was under the Group icon, a button for BRAWL and one that said MELEE next to it. One utilizing Brawl physics, and one utilizing Melee physics, with the positive new additions. E.G.: Footstool Jumps, pivot grabs, backwards-forwards jumping, wall clings, that would be our 'Melee Mode' for competition, having invincibility frames, wavedashing, L-canceling, SHFFLs, and all the stuff you loved about it, with all the new characters and stuff, light shields, and directional air dodges, but having the properties it does in SSBB allowing you to jump afterward (because that's just one thing in brawl that is really competitive). That is what I think we wanted, hoped for, and expected.

As for the 'floaty physics', they are neither adding or subtracting. They give characters with seemingly nothing, something to fight for. Meta Knight doesn't give a **** about killing power, he uairs off the top of the stage, and bair>fair off of the sides. Extremely aggressive edgeguarding is his kill power, much the same with Sonic. Sonic doesn't care much either if he can't land a forwardsmash, he CAN land a fair for minimal knockback then footstool them to their death. Is it hard? In most cases yes.

It is still blatantly obvious, this game has certain imbalances and was not tested well enough to be competitive. What we were given, is what many people will use though, and the smash community will find a way to deal with these gameplay changes. (I originally had issues where changes is, but then I realized it is changes before I submitted this.)

I'd also like you all to remember, TRIPPING SUX A$$ HARDER THAN NETHANG!!11!!!1!!111!

 

[arrowhead]

BDA:
yeah, we DO know much of brawl's limitations already. the game's mechanics is a huge giveaway about how technically advanced the game will become.

l-cancelling was discovered right away (it was in ssb64). wavedashing was discovered later

even if you dig up tons of hate melee threads, they mean nothing unless they came from a competitive player. noobs' opinions don't count when it comes to competitive play.

 

[ErciChewman]

So what? we supposed to stop playing it competitively now? and go back to melee? What are you brawl haters trying to get out of this.

1.5months after JP release and you say we know enough because of the obvious limitations,

Was L canceling and wave dashing dicovered immediatly to melee' s release? (seriosuly i dont know) from the 4+ different tier list I'm pretty sure fox and falco being at the top now, werent at the beginning of melees life span. Sombody dig up the archives see how many haters melee recieved when it first came out.


If you want a New Competitive smash why don't all you whiney bishes gather and
L2PROGRAM!!! and get on making a smash specifically for the wagon of whiners cause its to late for brawl from what this threads saying.

Just give up, its Over......stop playing Brawl and GL with melee continuing on in the future............






yah.....

it never gets old seeing scrubs get so mad when intelligent people with more experience than them discuss things they can't grasp.








...wait, it does get old.

 

[sincityserious]

Hmm no, you're wrong.

lol. you're completely right. this isn't a competitive player forum; this forum is for brawl nubs and scrubs alike. however, don't talk **** about egg: he's an elite mario in melee.

 

[sincityserious]

it never gets old seeing scrubs get so mad when intelligent people with more experience than them discuss things they can't grasp.

lol. hell yeah; i couldn't have said it better.

 

[Sculelos]

Theres a lot of whining about Brawl since it removed many advanced tactics and had tripping enabled. So what? It's much better that theres a smaller gap between god players and complete noobs, whenever I played any of my friends I destroyed them in Melee, in Brawl we actually have some good matches although still end up winning most of the time.

Really embrace Brawl for what it is, a balanced fighter that centers around strategy and timing. If you are good at those things you will dominate wither it has Wavedashing, L-Canceling or any other techs. Brawl is deep enough for competition, easy enough to play for parties.

 

[Yuna]

super armor needs to be added to the list of physics for brawl. I see it a huge help to slow characters with laggy moves. Also it pushes players to really know the timing of their moves.

Super armor also promotes camping since grabs (including shieldgrabs) now have super armor.

Was L canceling and wave dashing dicovered immediatly to melee' s release? (seriosuly i dont know)

If you don't know much about a certain subject, why argue about it? L-canceling was around even in SSB64.

I'm also sick and tired of explaining why we'll be finding out everything about Brawl much earlier than with Melee.

 

[Popuri]

I'm also sick and tired of explaining why we'll be finding out everything about Brawl much earlier than with Melee.

I haven't been here very long so I'm not sick of explaining it yet q:

Basically, the 'SUPER' game that Advanced Techs in Melee created is something that people really like so this time round people will be trying much harder to find Techs like that asap.

A lot of Techs where discovered by accident as apose to --> Sitting there for hundreds of hours spamming every possible combination at every single frame interval. Which is what a lot of people have been doing with Brawl since it was first released in JP

If you dont understand why people love adv techs so much then watch these guys play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYBhBvrOvxI

 

[BDAOutlaw]

Yes Phanna is a fresh samus, so is Hugs Wes and Aftermath, I'll stop their

But where are they when it comes to complaining about brawls limitations. The ones that are actually at the top when it comes to skill and show it. Where's Ken and Isai and Korean, Azen, and foward...........u know where im going with this. Only person I'v seen complain was M2K when brawl was found to have No Wavedashing, and even he has switched and started learning new techniques already.

Eric and Sincity can i see some of your skilled videos -.- since you believe I'm some scrub or some ****. I don't know how much intelligent you think you are compared to me or any others in your scrub booklet let alone you don't know how much I know unless you are either me or you know me in RL of some kind so stop acting like you do.

Tell me something new about melee and then maybe I'll accept that I'm some newb that doesnt know **** about it and shouldnt be in these board's defending brawl against haters.

Also I forgot about 64s full lag cancel, sorry i didnt remember in my QQ post, but still, did wave dashing have such a great effect nowadays as it did back in the beginning. I dont recall fox and falco moving at the crazy speeds they do now putting pressure on their oppononent nomatter where they are on the freakin stage. either way complaining isn't going to change anything so either suck it up and try to get good and start winning some money in tourney's or give up.

Super Armor still needs to be added, it brings in some new styles, such as ikes neutral B which allows him to not be interuppted when getting hit at certain frames while doing it, works very well for kirby also. Theirs Olimars down B which has an invulnerability frame also which can be life and death at high percentage situations if you time it right to take a hit. Many more but thats the ones I'v tested.

 

[Popuri]

My deciding on wether or not I will quitt Brawl and fully go back to Melee wont happen for at least a few Brawl years.

I am not a Brawl hater, I am a Melee <3 er.

I am not complaining I am stating current superness difference between the lates 2 smashes q: They both include the word 'super' in their title afterall. Maybe Brawl should be called just 'Smash brothers Party' instead of Super Smash Brothers Party, erm I mean Brawl***

 

[Der Metzgermeister]

its like going from xp to vista

 

[ErciChewman]

Eric and Sincity can i see some of your skilled videos -.- since you believe I'm some scrub or some ****. I don't know how much intelligent you think you are compared to me or any others in your scrub booklet let alone you don't know how much I know unless you are either me or you know me in RL of some kind so stop acting like you do.

MM?......I.Q. MM lol (mine is 150 gg)

Tell me something new about melee and then maybe I'll accept that I'm some newb that doesnt know **** about it and shouldnt be in these board's defending brawl against haters.

WE are not HATING on brawl. WE are talking intelligently about levels of competition and the superiorities and inferiorities of the games as we can tell thus far. That's what WE are doing. However, ******* like you keep coming in and miss the whole point because you clearly lack the knowledge and experience to discuss such things, and make us waste posts (like this one sadly) trying to explain it so that you understand, however it's futile.

You've already revealed your lack of gaming concept from your previous posts, the terminology you use also reveals your scrubiness. I don't post "skilled videos" to show some scrub that i know AT, as if all melee players have "skilled videos" in their bag of tricks to show people like you. Besides, knowledge and skill are completely different, i can tell you have neither.

 

[pockyD]

I don't know how much intelligent you think you are compared to me or any others in your scrub booklet let alone you don't know how much I know unless you are either me or you know me in RL of some kind so stop acting like you do.

this is one of the more poorly constructed sentences i've read in a while

 

[Popuri]

its like going from xp to vista

Thats actually really funny q:

Good job Microsoft didnt play a part in Brawl's design x_x (I hear they do games now) or erm buy them at least q:

 

[VVayfarer]

this is one of the more poorly constructed sentences i've read in a while

Lol at the irony. :D

 

[MASAHIROx]

thrilla is back in action

you maining link or toon link!?

 

[joepinion]

What, you guys don't like parties?

Yay for a fun party game like Brawl. It doesn't mean it's not competitive but maybe a little bit lower of a learning curve. It's funny to hear people complain that it's not as much as a competitive fighter as Melee. In both games, the competitive community narrows the parameters of what the game is so much that the whole thing is unrecognizable. 1 on 1, certain stages, no items. SSB has 10000 options to be played on.

It's not wrong to play that way at all, of course, feel free. But keep in mind your playtime with Brawl isn't anything close to a "normal" experience with the game. I'm glad Brawl is more of a party game, and will attract more people than ever.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Uhhh who the hell cares? This is once again your opinion, and doesn't prove an absolute truth.
Some people love, some people hate Brawl.
Find something better to do with your time than **** about the game, guys.

 

[pockyD]

why are you on a forum dedicated to the game if you don't want to talk about the game?