Brawl Common Courtesy.. Are You A Respectful Brawler?

[Da-D-Mon-109]

People can spam it through a match and use it to run time down, while saying that you were positioning your opponent for a kill. I know some people who'd never reach compeditive levels of play who would use it just for that too...

If Chain-Grabs had a point where the person would be out of range of the grab from the damage and knock back, even if it was around 80+, they'd be fairer. But again, depending on who and where (the fact that some are situation and some are character specific is probably the only reason that it isn't banned by the officials), people can get you to almost 300 damage over time, with absolutely 0 chance of retaliation, and finish with pretty much any move for an instant unstopable kill. That's about as cheap as winning a 15 minute Melee using the Double Aura Sphere Glitch (which I'm proud to say I've never done. I just used my up tilt and aerials).

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Sorry for the double post, but just to be sure of something. Virtually everyone is in agreement that the "Teather Gimp" and the "Vore Suicide" are both completely fair, since people can do a lot about them, and that we mostly agree that people need to learn to be nice to eachother, right? About the only thing that seems debatable from viewpoint to viewpoint are people's infinites and whether they are okay or not.

 

[PK-ow!]

I personally think that if a person has an unfair tactic, and can't win without using it, that they're being cheap.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'unfair' (there are three likely possibilities, I think), but I'm going to guess it's the meaning where if the move is unfair, then you should use it. I mean, it's winning games, right, so you should pick it up, emulate it, and give yourself as good a chance as the opponent. Then you'll be on equal terms again.
It's not as good as coming up with a counter, but if you do this, you can make your opponent do that work for you (assuming you're at least as skilled as him).


Also, assuming this was a question for me:

I guess she should think of a new name once she's done with her tournament. But that didn't answer my question. Well, it did about your view of the Tether recovery, which many people (including myself) share, but how do you feel about Infinite Attacks and the whole "Kirby eats you, jumps off the stage, spits you out, and then recovers while you die" move?

"Play to win."

100Sirlinadvices

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

That does tell what you think about 3/4ths of the topic so far. What about Brawler respect?

 

[MBreeto]

People can spam it through a match and use it to run time down, while saying that you were positioning your opponent for a kill. I know some people who'd never reach compeditive levels of play who would use it just for that too...

If Chain-Grabs had a point where the person would be out of range of the grab from the damage and knock back, even if it was around 80+, they'd be fairer. But again, depending on who and where (the fact that some are situation and some are character specific is probably the only reason that it isn't banned by the officials), people can get you to almost 300 damage over time, with absolutely 0 chance of retaliation, and finish with pretty much any move for an instant unstopable kill. That's about as cheap as winning a 15 minute Melee using the Double Aura Sphere Glitch (which I'm proud to say I've never done. I just used my up tilt and aerials).

But that's the thing. People are going to use infinites because it works. When you play someone competitively, there should be no feeling of guilt while you play because pretty much everything you do is technically avoidable. If they don't want to get grabbed, don't get grabbed. If they don't want to get hit with lazer spam, jump or dodge. And so on...

 

[Lemonwater]

I don't think infinites are fair either. Saying 'don't get grabbed' is like saying 'don't get into a car accident.' It's eventually going to happen at least once or twice. Unless you plan to spend the entire game on a ledge or in the air (and even in the air, you can be grabbed if you are right in front of the opponent), there will be a chance it will happen. A human player isn't going to be flawless, and one infinite grab will probably lead to a kill (due to high damage and one A attack of some sort). I don't like infinites of any kind.

 

[AvaricePanda]

^ but infiniting is what racks up the damage which eventually leads to the kill. If infiniting did no damage, then no one would use it

I meant people who go past like 200%. It's obvious their at a kill %, so the only other purpose to do it farther is stalling, which is banned.

But you can't do much about it if you're playing on Wi-Fi, so I just have to sit and wait it out until he decides to kill me after 2 minutes.

 

[Barge]

This is a FIGHTING GAME people, I think some of you are forgetting that. If you don't use all your tools and weapons to win, then you'll end up losing. The whole game is about getting better, winning, and learning from your mistakes. If you guys label tactics as cheap, and refuse to use them, then you're only hurting yourself. Use what you can to your advantage, exploit the glitches and win.

 

[MBreeto]

oh, i thought you were talking about infiniting in general. I agree that going past your opponents kill percent is pretty worthless. I guess the only reason to do that would be if you were at a dangerous percent and you wanted to draw the clock out, which you can't do. But for wifi, anything goes. There's not much you can do about it online

 

[Albert.]

Great idea, great thread, Enjoyable discussion

To Aqua4 ever though...
It might be prudent to have the thread-page count in the OP of what discussion starts where

 

[Bowser King]

That does tell what you think about 3/4ths of the topic so far. What about Brawler respect?

Friendlies,yes, being an idiot and infiniting someone isn't always the smartest thing to do (though chaingrabbing is fine IMO).

Though, In a competitive area, infiniting is fine. I think D3's infinite should be banned but other then his, you can basically get around any infinite.

IC's infinite isn't broken. Good yes, but definitely not so good to the point where you can't do anything (bowser, DK in the D3 matchup). You can split up the IC's, there grab range isn't amazing and if it's solo climber they can't do it (only few characters suffer to a really big extent, like bowser).

-Bowser King

 

[Barge]

Friendlies,yes, being an idiot and infiniting someone isn't always the smartest thing to do (though chaingrabbing is fine IMO).

Though, In a competitive area, infiniting is fine. I think D3's infinite should be banned but other then his, you can basically get around any infinite.

IC's infinite isn't broken. Good yes, but definitely not so good to the point where you can't do anything (bowser, DK in the D3 matchup). You can split up the IC's, there grab range isn't amazing and if it's solo climber they can't do it (only few characters suffer to a really big extent, like bowser).

-Bowser King

And as for DDD, you can easily counterpick against him. God knows why you would pick a character against d3 that can be infinited.

 

[chandy]

And as for DDD, you can easily counterpick against him. God knows why you would pick a character against d3 that can be infinited.

Because you only want to use your main. Or if you have secondaries they all can be DDD infinited too or maybe you just don't know who DDD can and can't infinite

 

[swordgard]

Because you only want to use your main. Or if you have secondaries they all can be DDD infinited too or maybe you just don't know who DDD can and can't infinite

By using those characters, you agree with the possibility to fight d3 and be infinited. Simple as this. You choose your char, the other guy should not have to reduce his combos for you. Its like saying: No fair, jigglypuff cant beat marth cause his long sword counters her!

Some characters are infinitable, you chose them, play them. Live with it, or find a counterpick.


EDIT: and if you dont know, its your fault. Ignorance is not a valid excuse.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Bowserking, that phrase you quoted was actually to Pk-ow, asking him about the whole "be respectful to others" thingy. You know, out of game courtesy.

 

[Mardyke]

Firstly, great thread.

Secondly, while I'm not one for complaining, I can tell when something is cheap. Falco's chaingrab? I'll keep an eye on it. Using top tier? Bring it on, I need to learn how to beat them. Relying on a one-trick pony or infinite that even the user himself considers unfair or cheap? You can follow your "IM PLAYING TO WIN FFS" philosophy fine, it's perfectly legal to; but you still know how we feel. Arguing the play-to-win philosophy implies defensiveness, and thus the need to be.

In other words, you said it, not me.

 

[Bowser King]

Because you only want to use your main. Or if you have secondaries they all can be DDD infinited too or maybe you just don't know who DDD can and can't infinite

Exactly.

By using those characters, you agree with the possibility to fight d3 and be infinited. Simple as this. You choose your char, the other guy should not have to reduce his combos for you. Its like saying: No fair, jigglypuff cant beat marth cause his long sword counters her!

Some characters are infinitable, you chose them, play them. Live with it, or find a counterpick.


EDIT: and if you dont know, its your fault. Ignorance is not a valid excuse.

No.

Forcing someone to counterpick (not just one char but 5) is completely unfair. It's already getting banned at a lot of tourneys and hopefully will be in the near future.

Also, your analogy is completely off. Marth may do really well against jiggs but jiggs has an overall poor character design and the matchup isn't unwinnable. Just really hard.

Your 2nd paragraph makes you look like you know nothing about this matchup. D3 is a top tier char so more people play them. IC's aren't winning as much and neither is there infinite impossible to get around.

D3 makes 5 chars unplayable without counterpicks. You can't win. It's completely unfair that some random person can pull out D3 on these 5 characters, and having little experience on D3, and still win the match. You don't need to be a pro to use D3's infinite. You do need to be a pro (well, more like M2k) to be able to get around the infinite.

-Bowser King

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

"You don't need to be a pro to use D3's infinite. You do need to be a pro (well, more like M2k) to be able to get around the infinite."

The only issue I have with this is the Oxymoron. You do need to be a pro (well, more like M2K) to get around infinites? Dude, if you didn't know (although I'm sure you do), M2K is above Pro statis. He is a Smash Bros God. All praise the Mew2King.

Other than that, you and I are of similar mindsets, Bowsa-king. What say you on the other subjects?

 

[Kinzer]

I don't think infinites are fair either. Saying 'don't get grabbed' is like saying 'don't get into a car accident.' It's eventually going to happen at least once or twice. Unless you plan to spend the entire game on a ledge or in the air (and even in the air, you can be grabbed if you are right in front of the opponent), there will be a chance it will happen. A human player isn't going to be flawless, and one infinite grab will probably lead to a kill (due to high damage and one A attack of some sort). I don't like infinites of any kind.

The thing is every infinite (not including the D3 infinite imo) have to be earned/setup, and it really is possible to avoid getting infinite throughout the whole match.

God knows how easy Sonic makes it to seperate the ICs, not get grabbed thanks to his sheer speed, and just without the infinites how easy the matchup is for him. Granted it's not Fox/Pikachu easy, but it's sad, and if you fall for the infinites you deserve to lose that stock.

Apply the same philosophy for CGs, and you got a tactic that has the same requirements, but just less reward for the person performing them because they're limited in some way/perhaps a little bit easier to land.

 

[Bowser King]

"You don't need to be a pro to use D3's infinite. You do need to be a pro (well, more like M2k) to be able to get around the infinite."

The only issue I have with this is the Oxymoron. You do need to be a pro (well, more like M2K) to get around infinites? Dude, if you didn't know (although I'm sure you do), M2K is above Pro statis. He is a Smash Bros God. All praise the Mew2King.

Other than that, you and I are of similar mindsets, Bowsa-king. What say you on the other subjects?

I was trying to say that M2K is past an average pro and, like you said, a smash god

I'll get to the other subjects in a minute.

-Bowser King

 

[LightAlchemist]

From all the things you mentioned, i think the one that seems cheaper to me is swallowing the other one, killing him, then recovering. Still that takes some skill and timing so i see it as hillarious and something do-able.
WHat would be really cheap would be a kirby with two lifes and say, 238%, against an Ike with i life and 0%, swallowing him and dying along as its much easier and safer to kill the otherone. That always leaves me cursing the air, really annoyed.

I would like to propose a couple of things which happen to me offtenly.

For example, when i die, and the other player celebrates many times i have enough time to appear in fron of him, and its very tempting to punish him with my Ike, but i dont. After hes finished we start fighting again. That would just be cheap.

Another one that happens alot when i play on Wi-fi is that the other character is not moving when we start playing, maybe cause of lag or anyother inconvenient. Then i just wait until he moves.
Anyway, thats just basic, anyone would do that.

 

[DarkLouis331]

I hate holding back on people, despite the fact that I have more experience than them sometimes. I mean, they see me play against other people at my skill level so they know what I'm capable of. I'd feel a little bad if someone didn't give their best in a match against me.

 

[M3WTW0 J0SH]

Doesn't matter to me, honestly. I try not to take it too seriously.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Exactly.



No.

Forcing someone to counterpick (not just one char but 5) is completely unfair. It's already getting banned at a lot of tourneys and hopefully will be in the near future.

Also, your analogy is completely off. Marth may do really well against jiggs but jiggs has an overall poor character design and the matchup isn't unwinnable. Just really hard.

Your 2nd paragraph makes you look like you know nothing about this matchup. D3 is a top tier char so more people play them. IC's aren't winning as much and neither is there infinite impossible to get around.

D3 makes 5 chars unplayable without counterpicks. You can't win. It's completely unfair that some random person can pull out D3 on these 5 characters, and having little experience on D3, and still win the match. You don't need to be a pro to use D3's infinite. You do need to be a pro (well, more like M2k) to be able to get around the infinite.

-Bowser King

Err...

If you main someone who has a HUGE GAPING FAIL MATCHUP against another character, one of your secondaries should be able to cover that. If you play your character and don't have a secondary to cover like a 10:90 matchup, it's your own fault.

I'm a Fox. I don't want to play a Pikachu and get ***** and be able to do nothing until 90%, so of course I'm going to have a character that can fare well against Pika (Marth lol). It's your job to come prepared to a tournament, and it's pretty obvious that if one of your matchups is 30:70 or 20:80...you need a secondary.

That being said, anyone who can get inf'd by D3 should have a secondary. Period. Is it necessarily "fair" that you have to CP because someone has an infinite on you? Not really. But are you stupid if you don't CP someone who has an infinite on you? Yes.

And some random person who doesn't play D3 and only knows about the infinites isn't going to infinite you. It does take timing, otherwise the person can get out of it. The chain grab...rather any chain grab is pretty easy to time, but the infinite isn't as much. Sure, it doesn't take long to get the timing down, but someone who doesn't use D3 at all can't just CP him when he sees a Mario come.

Really, the only reason why the infinite should be banned is because of stalling, and since stalling is banned, problem solved (I think his infinite is banned past a certain % in some tournaments).

 

[Bowser King]

Err...

If you main someone who has a HUGE GAPING FAIL MATCHUP against another character, one of your secondaries should be able to cover that. If you play your character and don't have a secondary to cover like a 10:90 matchup, it's your own fault.

I'm a Fox. I don't want to play a Pikachu and get ***** and be able to do nothing until 90%, so of course I'm going to have a character that can fare well against Pika (Marth lol). It's your job to come prepared to a tournament, and it's pretty obvious that if one of your matchups is 30:70 or 20:80...you need a secondary.

That being said, anyone who can get inf'd by D3 should have a secondary. Period. Is it necessarily "fair" that you have to CP because someone has an infinite on you? Not really. But are you stupid if you don't CP someone who has an infinite on you? Yes.

And some random person who doesn't play D3 and only knows about the infinites isn't going to infinite you. It does take timing, otherwise the person can get out of it. The chain grab...rather any chain grab is pretty easy to time, but the infinite isn't as much. Sure, it doesn't take long to get the timing down, but someone who doesn't use D3 at all can't just CP him when he sees a Mario come.

Really, the only reason why the infinite should be banned is because of stalling, and since stalling is banned, problem solved (I think his infinite is banned past a certain % in some tournaments).

Again, the D3 infinite is banned in a lot of the major tournies because it completely wrecks 5 characters. If you listened to the podcast you'd realize why it's so bad.

D3 does not need his infinite. He already wins against all 5 characters he infinites. The only difference is he brings the matchup from 60-40+ to LOL.
What is the point of keeping it in? To have 5 characters completely shut down from being usable alone?

....yes he is. If the person even has half an idea of how to shield, grab and use D3 then you will most likely get infinited. The timing takes very few time to get down. My brother can do it and he's 12. It took him only a few minutes to get down.

It will most likely get banned (if it isn't, even then, it gets banned and a lot of major tourneys). A lot of people agree that it should be but even if it doesn't I'm fine. I don't have a huge problem with counterpicking. I'd just rather play as someone I have experience with then be forced to take someone I don't feel so good about.

- Bowser King

 

[1048576]

Uncounterable? Wow, you guys definitly dont know how to break the game then. Once you understand MKs mechanic, hes much easier to beat.

Who goes better than 50-50 against MK? Nobody. Hmmm, he must be UNCOUNTERABLE.

 

[Lemonwater]

MK is not uncounterable. You just have to understand how he works and use a playstyle that counters that. Maybe counter picking a stage is a good idea as well. He has weaknesses, they are just very few and more difficult to exploit that most other characters'.

Although that doesn't make him any more balanced in my book.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Lets not start a Metaknight discussion. That's one of the few subjects I want to avoid, only because everyone has their own oppinions, and that is one of the few subjects where your oppinion gets voiced a little too much.

 

[Hydra.]

Yea, Please get back to discussion on the topics.
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By the way, xD You guys are going to laugh at me but I went to that tourny and IMO the cutest one is my boyfriend now. 0.o haha. I couldnt reply to anything on here because :
1.) The posts go by CRAZY fast... lol.
2.) I was on the phone with him all day today, I mean we talked for like 7 hours.
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Anyways, Dispite I havent been talking much if you havent noticed I have been updating the first post.
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Its hard to put a page # on discussions because everyone is saying things about diffrent discussions here and there so thats why I just got the good ones in quotes.
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I am going to get a picture for each discussion topic and section, to help locate things on the first post and just because it will look better. =P
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[1048576]

He has no bad matchups and very few (if any) even ones, regardless of stage.

You do know what uncounterable means, right?

That's why we don't play Meta. He overcentralizes to the point where playing anyone else is pointless. Since we play to win for fun, we needed to ban him to continue having fun.

Gimping Olimar is very honorable. It's the only thing he has to worry about in most matchups.

 

[Bluebottel]

The only time that respect should be shown is when you are not actually playing. In fact, I would consider it to be rude to hold back against me on purpose.

QFT. Why is there even a discussion about it at all, here of all places. If it were gamefaqs or some other scrub waterhole i would understand.
Why should players bother with the honor crap? Its like playing with one hand. Play to win.

 

[Hydra.]

Discussion 2: Section B, Is Now Up Discuss.

 

[Lemonwater]

He has no bad matchups and very few (if any) even ones, regardless of stage.

You do know what uncounterable means, right?

That's why we don't play Meta. He overcentralizes to the point where playing anyone else is pointless. Since we play to win for fun, we needed to ban him to continue having fun.

Gimping Olimar is very honorable. It's the only thing he has to worry about in most matchups.

True, though I try to be an honorable Brawler, I have no qualms about gimping Olimar because his ground game is pure INSANITY. He even cancels a lot of my aerials with his....and I am mostly ground-based, so I have to exploit his weaknesses.



GREETINGS!
Okay, these are questionable, but a good greeting should not suggest that either one of the players will win this match. A good greeting should also sound friendly.

Examples of good greetings:
Nice to meet you, *Swap names*. Let's play our best.
Let's have us a good match.

Bad greetings:
Wow, I got this guys. Easy.
You're using who...? Against my *insert character*?! *Laugh*

 

[chandy]

discussion 2 B: A good way to greet a brawler erm... Say good luck probably... maybe shake their hand. If you've got time you could discuss your mains and why you main them but you obviously don't wanna give secrets away. Bad ways *uhm lol* Telling your opponent that he had better watch out coz your the best player at a character, I suppose it may make your opponent wonder but being cocky is gonna make it a match with a bad atmosphere :/

 

[Scott!]

Here's an example of how to be a jerk. In my first tourney, I met the first guy I faced right before we were about to go. I introduced myself, and he said "Not nice to meet you." Jerk. I proceeded to pretty solidly own his Pikachu with Marth, and then he went off and sulked. I laughed on the inside. Then I lost next round by repeated Kirbycide because I was being dumb.

 

[1048576]

I act like a timid noob. Then I pick Ike. It makes the first stock that much easier.

If MK is legal I pick him. Makes the whole tourney a cakewalk.

 

[Underload]

This thread is amazing.

 

[MBreeto]

Here's an example of how to be a jerk. In my first tourney, I met the first guy I faced right before we were about to go. I introduced myself, and he said "Not nice to meet you." Jerk. I proceeded to pretty solidly own his Pikachu with Marth, and then he went off and sulked. I laughed on the inside. Then I lost next round by repeated Kirbycide because I was being dumb.

wow, were you like playing an 5th grader? Honestly, that immaturity of that is kinda funny. If someone older than 12 said that, they have serious social problems.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Good way: hey, good luck.
Bad way: you look like a ***.

 

[Bowser King]

I act like a timid noob. Then I pick Ike. It makes the first stock that much easier.

If MK is legal I pick him. Makes the whole tourney a cakewalk.

What tourneys are you going to? I doubt your the ONLY MK there

- Bowser King