Jerodak
Smash Lord
Alright, thanks a bunch man.
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Bowser's Moveset Analysis/Discussion (Pre-Release discussion)
- Thread starter Jerodak
- Start date
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meleebrawler
Smash Hero
SDCC 3DS tournament Bowser vs. Bowser.
I never thought I'd see a Wall of Pain by Bowser... that back air is a fearsome edge-guard.
Forward air seems weaker but has more vertical reach.
I never thought I'd see a Wall of Pain by Bowser... that back air is a fearsome edge-guard.
Forward air seems weaker but has more vertical reach.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
Forward air has an amazing hitbox, and it autocancels, it certainly caries a lot more utility than the back air. Back air is also amazing, I really love what they did with it. His air game overall just seems great, he'll probably get a lot more respect while airborne now.
by the way http://nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/gallery/smash-bros-3ds-famitsu/smash-fam-13.jpg Are there any translated scans of this? I'd like to add it to the OP for documentation.
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Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Fair def has more range above Bowser's head and below his belly now.
I also don't think this has been mentioned yet, but nair now 100% of the time knocks off latched on Pikmin. This is HUGE in the Olimar MU--in Brawl, Bowser had NO surefire way to remove Pikmin. I confirmed this by playing against Olimars at SDCC.
I also don't think this has been mentioned yet, but nair now 100% of the time knocks off latched on Pikmin. This is HUGE in the Olimar MU--in Brawl, Bowser had NO surefire way to remove Pikmin. I confirmed this by playing against Olimars at SDCC.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
That sounds great, how was the priority on Nair? Are the limbs intangible while swinging? Did you get a chance to land a complete Nair? If you did then how's the damange on it? I don't think I've seen the full damage value yet but i've seen up to around 16% or so on it.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Can't be worse then what his Nair was before.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
Very likely, but I want to get the data down for documentation.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I don't remember the exact number, but it was low-mid teens.
MrEh
Smash Hero
I got the Smash 4 demo.
Will post info soon.
*EDIT: Why did I think Bowser was in the demo again? lol
Will post info soon.
*EDIT: Why did I think Bowser was in the demo again? lol
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Jerodak
Smash Lord
LOL well thanks anyway man!
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Doesn't look like Bowser can compete with a competent Sheik. At least from what I saw for now.
Hokori
Great King of Evil
Ha ha, Vex is saying that ledge trump > Side-B works.
Brother AJ
Smash Lord
Have we gotten any information regarding Bowser's custom moves?
MrEh
Smash Hero
Any reasoning for this?
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Neutral game is in Sheiks favor, Ftilt strings forever, Fair fair fair fair, etc.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Does Fair fair fair even combo in this game? If it does, then holy ****.
In all seriousness though, that doesn't sound very different then how it was in Brawl. Ftilt always went on forever.
In all seriousness though, that doesn't sound very different then how it was in Brawl. Ftilt always went on forever.
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ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Sheik can gimp in this game. What I mean by that is that she can kill below 100%. Fair indeed combos into fair. She has superior edge guard options, she has needles, all her aerials beside Dair have 0 landing lag, and her smashes can all kill.
Sheik honestly looks like meta knight without wings.
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
We musn't forget about Bowser's armor in a Bowser vs. Sheik matchup.
Though it still seems that Bowser is disadvantaged, just not hopelessly so now.
Though it still seems that Bowser is disadvantaged, just not hopelessly so now.
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Bowser will have to play defensively to avoid falling into a combo, but otherwise I'd say it's less lopsided then it was in Melee for example. Mainly because Bowser actually has options this time around, where previously he was a lead weight.
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
And then there's the Whirling Fortress, which, while somewhat overshadowed by all his other buffs, is probably
still a good move for him defensively.
still a good move for him defensively.
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
It's easy to DI out of and being a multi hit move, you can out of it with just 4%.
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
His grounded up-b is multi-hitting now?
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Yes and it's pretty weak and inconsistent
Jerodak
Smash Lord
If the default fortress proves to be too unreliable then we may be able to find a better option via custom moves. However, I think the situations where Fortress is least successful is the same situations where you normally would have wanted to use other options anyway. It's best against poorly spaced attacks on shield, so if you hit them while they are pretty far inside the attack's hitboxes it'll be harder to DI out and you can follow their DI to make it tougher for them. I think this new fortress will take getting used to, but it should still be pretty decent as a defensive option, especially if it still has invincible start-up.
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
So, I keep forgetting that everyone's transitioned to the Smash 4rums, but I'll hopefully be here to stay now.
I have one question though--I've been seeing quite a few Bowser players, and mechanical differences aside, the previous Bowser had a pretty large reliance on his Side B. Is the move still good in this game? Or do his buffs basically overshadow the command grab? That's all I'm really worried about--I feel as though Bowser will be very easy to get used to.
I have one question though--I've been seeing quite a few Bowser players, and mechanical differences aside, the previous Bowser had a pretty large reliance on his Side B. Is the move still good in this game? Or do his buffs basically overshadow the command grab? That's all I'm really worried about--I feel as though Bowser will be very easy to get used to.
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FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Flying Slam has been buffed to have more power last time I check, being able to reliable KO at lower percentages then before. I'm not sure about specifics like frame or range differences.
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Command grabs are always a plus. Iirc, only Bowser and Ganon have them.
Being able to aerial command grab on an opponents shield is always satisfying to land.
Being able to aerial command grab on an opponents shield is always satisfying to land.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
Command grabs aren't very common, but there are a few other characters with them, it'll probably still be a very useful tool, especially in the mac match-up since it'll be harder for him to use his armored anti-airs and counters if we're just grabbing him out of it. Also, shields seem pretty good in this iteration, which is also great for command grabs.
Conda
aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
However there is a limit to her, in that she doesn't have disjointed hitboxes to the extent MK did. She may be good, even melee-ish-ly good, but she can't be broken in that way unless she has multiple inescapable 0-deaths.
Hokori
Great King of Evil
He really doesn't have to rely on Side-B in this game, but I wouldn't say the move is exactly "overshadowed" as I still find it to be a solid option.
As for getting used to him easily, yeah, that'll probably be the case. For the time being, he's a go-to character since he's a pretty straightforward character in this iteration, gets the job done with his raw power (doesn't take much to KO opponents), and players have been having a hard time trying to KO Bowser. Over time, I believe people will fall back on using him, but for now, several people continue to praise the Koopa King as the best character in the game
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
It's going to be similar to Ike.
People were praising his power, but as time went on and everyone got used to the game people exploited Ike's weaknesses and he fell back. Bowser is probably going to follow a similar pattern. On a positive note, at least Bowser will still be fun to use if you're just messing around with friends.
People were praising his power, but as time went on and everyone got used to the game people exploited Ike's weaknesses and he fell back. Bowser is probably going to follow a similar pattern. On a positive note, at least Bowser will still be fun to use if you're just messing around with friends.
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Ike's problem is he left himself open and his recovery was easy to intercept.
Bowser doesn't die. He also kills people at 60. His Down B breaks shields. His recovery isn't bad at all. UpB OoS is still great and at minimum better than Ike's. Fire Breath can pressure. Command Grab. More armor than Ike can ever imagine. Range on aerials that even some sword characters can't match.
Bowser is leagues different than Ike is in comparison.
RPGsFTW
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
- Messages
- 754
^ This, guys. Why has no one mentioned anything regarding Bowser's custom moves considering everyone is apparently playing him at the moment? I've heard something along the lines of him having a fireball as a custom neutral B, but feel free to confirm it, please.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
It could be because most of the play right now is happening in For glory mode. It seems like the competitive community has prioritized learning the current movesets for each character over unlocking custom moves, I have heard of two of the Bowser custom moves from someone that had the game, I'll go fetch the descriptions and post them here in the OP but the decriptions weren't super informative so I don't know how much help it'd be.
I'm pretty sure especially once the game is released world wide then we'll see a lot more attention put on custom movesets overall, but at the moment It seems like everyone is just focusing more on the game itself and getting adjusted to mechanical changes and so on.
Also, the fact that custom moves need to be unlocked isn't helping to motivate players to look into them when they could just be playing the game.
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ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
And from the words of some of the competitive streamers. Custom moves will most likely not be included in the current meta for at least a year.
_Rated D.R.K_
Smash Apprentice
Hey Good Brothers.
Hate that I dont post here more often. That will definitely change though! Oh I found a list with Bowser's custom moves.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=130095479
Hate that I dont post here more often. That will definitely change though! Oh I found a list with Bowser's custom moves.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=130095479
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Koopa Klaw is (not) BACK!
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I don't understand the logic behind this. Sheik could ftilt lock Bowser for days in Brawl. She can't do it nearly as long in Smash 4. Bowser can get gimped by everyone. Don't play dumb and you'll be fine. Sheik will by no means be like MK against Bowser. Not even remotely close.
ImaClubYou
Smash Lord
Don't know why you're concluding it so early. Have you played the game yet?
I'm just speculating here.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Sorry if that came off as rude. I haven't played Bowser in the full build but from what I've seen of Sheik so far I don't see how she will be the bane of Bowser's existence like MK was. Sheik doesn't have the wide range if tools to gimp Bowser that MK has in Brawl.
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