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Bowser's Koopa R&D: Bowser Metagame and Standard Advancement, last updated 5/17/09

Beren Zaiga

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
803
Location
Kansas
Possible uses for Bair?

Anti-Planker : Run off the ledge and use Bair while your opponent is attempting to get back to the ledge for a possible stage spike?

Anti-GIMP?: If facing away, use Bair to counter an opponent's GIMP attempt.
 

B!squick

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,629
Location
The Sunny South
Or he can use any aerial, I'm sure they're all faster than Bowser's BAir. But MK doesn't need to plank Bowser anyway, lol.
 

Beren Zaiga

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
803
Location
Kansas
A Uair isn't as likely to hit from the side as, say, a Dair would, and since the Meta-Knights back is facing Bowser if he does get off the stage in an attempt to stage-spike, Meta's Bair is his only straightforward option unless he wants to take the precious second to jump just to perform a Dair, then there is his UpB special, which can be air-dodged, but would end with Bowser falling to the pit.
 

Crzy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
327
Location
Glendale, AZ
On the Ledge Game area, can anyone test something for me?

I was playing with someone after a 5 month break and while I was on the ledge, I dropped down and jumped while doing a Dair. I DI'd the Dair to land on the stage(much like you would do the Firebreath from Edge return) and this was able to reach the opponent who was standing where most people edgeguard. The Dair knockback at the end of the Dair was enough to push him away, allowing me a safe return to the stage.

Can you guys test this and see how useful it really is, and how punishable the lag would be if the person shielded?

The guy really didn't see it coming so that might be why it worked....I have the replay of it so I'll try to film it if you guys need to see it.
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
Location
Honolulu, HI
On the Ledge Game area, can anyone test something for me?

I was playing with someone after a 5 month break and while I was on the ledge, I dropped down and jumped while doing a Dair. I DI'd the Dair to land on the stage(much like you would do the Firebreath from Edge return) and this was able to reach the opponent who was standing where most people edgeguard. The Dair knockback at the end of the Dair was enough to push him away, allowing me a safe return to the stage.

Can you guys test this and see how useful it really is, and how punishable the lag would be if the person shielded?

The guy really didn't see it coming so that might be why it worked....I have the replay of it so I'll try to film it if you guys need to see it.
iirc, NinjaLink does that occasionally.
 

B!squick

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,629
Location
The Sunny South
Yeah, I've played around with DAir like that, but FAir used in the same way is faster, has more knockback, and less lag. Plus, since the knockback of DAir is the kind that sends you sliding I'm pretty sure you can tech it if you really want to. Also, if you don't make it back on stage, I'm pretty sure it's an SD. :(
 

3xSwords

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,193
Location
Bergen County
"1. Ledgehop Lagless Fair (LLF) - This one I still haven't completely figured out just yet. But, the idea is basically drop from the ledge, double jump, fair, and land with no lag. It may not seem possible and you can still get lag, but I assure you once done right a perfectly lagless version is possible. As I said, I haven't figured out 100% why or how this is possible, but I'm still working on it."


I've figured out how to do this. First you do a ledge hop and asap fair make sure that you aren't DI'ing at all. Now the key to landing laglessly is that near the ending animation of fair you DI towards the stage. You will scrape the edge and land with no lag. This is not amazing because you sacrifice range in order to get no lag but the no lag let's you UpB which gives you invincibility frames anyway so it's not much of a problem. Hope this helps.
 

Bowser King

Have It Your Way
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,737
Location
Ontario, Canada
"1. Ledgehop Lagless Fair (LLF) - This one I still haven't completely figured out just yet. But, the idea is basically drop from the ledge, double jump, fair, and land with no lag. It may not seem possible and you can still get lag, but I assure you once done right a perfectly lagless version is possible. As I said, I haven't figured out 100% why or how this is possible, but I'm still working on it."


I've figured out how to do this. First you do a ledge hop and asap fair make sure that you aren't DI'ing at all. Now the key to landing laglessly is that near the ending animation of fair you DI towards the stage. You will scrape the edge and land with no lag. This is not amazing because you sacrifice range in order to get no lag but the no lag let's you UpB which gives you invincibility frames anyway so it's not much of a problem. Hope this helps.

We know how to do it we just don't know why it happens.

-:bowser:Bowser King
 

3xSwords

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,193
Location
Bergen County

We know how to do it we just don't know why it happens.

-:bowser:Bowser King
It's just scraping the edge later that allows you to do it. If you did it by initially going towards the stage from the ledge hop you still haven't reached the auto cancel frames of the fair when you land. On the contrary by scraping the edge later when you still have the relatively same elevation as when you initially ledge hopped gives you enough time to reach the auto cancel frames of the fair when you land via scraping.

Edit: Besides that point then shouldn't you edit how to do it? B/c the OP doesn't explain that at all
 

Jonas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
2,400
Location
Aarhus, Denmark, Europe
Has anyone thought of fast falling during a koopa hop? You can jump up and down mad fast if you do it right =D
It's really easy if you have Tap Jump on and use C-stick for Specials.

I wrote this here because I thought that if Koopa Hopping gives Bowser mobility, fast Koopa Hopping must give him about twice the mobility :O
 

Beren Zaiga

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
803
Location
Kansas
Dtilt or Fortress can also be substituted.

Sometimes I use Fire too.
I often approach with Fire Breath or a Fair, sometimes try the Flying Slam and Dair too, cause that sets them up for a Ftilt or Jab Combo almost immediately.

Dair has good aerial mobility, so switching your direction just before you hit the ground sets them up for those two perfectly. For me, they always see the Ledgehop Fair coming.
 
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