Bowser's Koopa R&D: Bowser Metagame and Standard Advancement, last updated 5/17/09

[Beren Zaiga]

Possible uses for Bair?

Anti-Planker : Run off the ledge and use Bair while your opponent is attempting to get back to the ledge for a possible stage spike?

Anti-GIMP?: If facing away, use Bair to counter an opponent's GIMP attempt.

 

[EnragedMathlete]

It's really situational but if you try that against an mk you will get *****...

 

[Beren Zaiga]

It's really situational but if you try that against an mk you will get *****...

Unless he is dumb enough not to use UpB or Bair in response.

 

[B!squick]

Or he can use any aerial, I'm sure they're all faster than Bowser's BAir. But MK doesn't need to plank Bowser anyway, lol.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

A Uair isn't as likely to hit from the side as, say, a Dair would, and since the Meta-Knights back is facing Bowser if he does get off the stage in an attempt to stage-spike, Meta's Bair is his only straightforward option unless he wants to take the precious second to jump just to perform a Dair, then there is his UpB special, which can be air-dodged, but would end with Bowser falling to the pit.

 

[Crzy]

On the Ledge Game area, can anyone test something for me?

I was playing with someone after a 5 month break and while I was on the ledge, I dropped down and jumped while doing a Dair. I DI'd the Dair to land on the stage(much like you would do the Firebreath from Edge return) and this was able to reach the opponent who was standing where most people edgeguard. The Dair knockback at the end of the Dair was enough to push him away, allowing me a safe return to the stage.

Can you guys test this and see how useful it really is, and how punishable the lag would be if the person shielded?

The guy really didn't see it coming so that might be why it worked....I have the replay of it so I'll try to film it if you guys need to see it.

 

[MrEh]

On the Ledge Game area, can anyone test something for me?

I was playing with someone after a 5 month break and while I was on the ledge, I dropped down and jumped while doing a Dair. I DI'd the Dair to land on the stage(much like you would do the Firebreath from Edge return) and this was able to reach the opponent who was standing where most people edgeguard. The Dair knockback at the end of the Dair was enough to push him away, allowing me a safe return to the stage.

Can you guys test this and see how useful it really is, and how punishable the lag would be if the person shielded?

The guy really didn't see it coming so that might be why it worked....I have the replay of it so I'll try to film it if you guys need to see it.

iirc, NinjaLink does that occasionally.

 

[B!squick]

Yeah, I've played around with DAir like that, but FAir used in the same way is faster, has more knockback, and less lag. Plus, since the knockback of DAir is the kind that sends you sliding I'm pretty sure you can tech it if you really want to. Also, if you don't make it back on stage, I'm pretty sure it's an SD.

 

[3xSwords]

"1. Ledgehop Lagless Fair (LLF) - This one I still haven't completely figured out just yet. But, the idea is basically drop from the ledge, double jump, fair, and land with no lag. It may not seem possible and you can still get lag, but I assure you once done right a perfectly lagless version is possible. As I said, I haven't figured out 100% why or how this is possible, but I'm still working on it."


I've figured out how to do this. First you do a ledge hop and asap fair make sure that you aren't DI'ing at all. Now the key to landing laglessly is that near the ending animation of fair you DI towards the stage. You will scrape the edge and land with no lag. This is not amazing because you sacrifice range in order to get no lag but the no lag let's you UpB which gives you invincibility frames anyway so it's not much of a problem. Hope this helps.

 

[Bowser King]

"1. Ledgehop Lagless Fair (LLF) - This one I still haven't completely figured out just yet. But, the idea is basically drop from the ledge, double jump, fair, and land with no lag. It may not seem possible and you can still get lag, but I assure you once done right a perfectly lagless version is possible. As I said, I haven't figured out 100% why or how this is possible, but I'm still working on it."


I've figured out how to do this. First you do a ledge hop and asap fair make sure that you aren't DI'ing at all. Now the key to landing laglessly is that near the ending animation of fair you DI towards the stage. You will scrape the edge and land with no lag. This is not amazing because you sacrifice range in order to get no lag but the no lag let's you UpB which gives you invincibility frames anyway so it's not much of a problem. Hope this helps.

We know how to do it we just don't know why it happens.

-Bowser King

 

[B!squick]

I think it's much better to do what MrEh does and do a frame perfect FTilt upon landing.

 

[3xSwords]

We know how to do it we just don't know why it happens.

-Bowser King

It's just scraping the edge later that allows you to do it. If you did it by initially going towards the stage from the ledge hop you still haven't reached the auto cancel frames of the fair when you land. On the contrary by scraping the edge later when you still have the relatively same elevation as when you initially ledge hopped gives you enough time to reach the auto cancel frames of the fair when you land via scraping.

Edit: Besides that point then shouldn't you edit how to do it? B/c the OP doesn't explain that at all

 

[Jonas]

Has anyone thought of fast falling during a koopa hop? You can jump up and down mad fast if you do it right =D
It's really easy if you have Tap Jump on and use C-stick for Specials.

I wrote this here because I thought that if Koopa Hopping gives Bowser mobility, fast Koopa Hopping must give him about twice the mobility :O

 

[MrEh]

I think it's much better to do what MrEh does and do a frame perfect FTilt upon landing.

Dtilt or Fortress can also be substituted.

Sometimes I use Fire too.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Dtilt or Fortress can also be substituted.

Sometimes I use Fire too.

I often approach with Fire Breath or a Fair, sometimes try the Flying Slam and Dair too, cause that sets them up for a Ftilt or Jab Combo almost immediately.

Dair has good aerial mobility, so switching your direction just before you hit the ground sets them up for those two perfectly. For me, they always see the Ledgehop Fair coming.

 

[B!squick]

Bowser's FAir also lacks some much needed range. :/

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Bowser's FAir also lacks some much needed range. :/

Big bit of common knowledge!