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Bowser's Keep - Bowser Video Archive

arcticfox_14

arcticfox_14

Smash Cadet
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Dec 10, 2014
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42
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Louisville
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arcticfox14
Found some old videos from a few weeks ago on my computer that I'd forgotten to upload from a monthly in my area (on version 1.1.4):

DARE 2 BAIR (Kentucky):

(W R1) Damage (Shiek) vs Arctic https://youtu.be/zZ-z4FLplpc
(W R3) S2 (Lucario) vs Arctic https://youtu.be/yWTZdYVQN8M
https://youtu.be/3pq_y6oeGPE

The first set was commentated by AceStar, which is like a dream come true for me :p (even though the audio isn't great...)
The second set put me into losers bracket 1-2. I had literally never played a decent Lucario, not even on FG, so the matchup was entirely new to me. I think I'd do better with this set under my belt and with improvements to my own skill in the last month.
Unfortunately I don't have replays of my FAVORITE part of this tourney, my friendlies against Ace's Rosa.
 
GerudoKong

GerudoKong

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
104
Location
Ohio
arcticfox_14 said:
Found some old videos from a few weeks ago on my computer that I'd forgotten to upload from a monthly in my area (on version 1.1.4):

DARE 2 BAIR (Kentucky):

(W R1) Damage (Shiek) vs Arctic https://youtu.be/zZ-z4FLplpc
(W R3) S2 (Lucario) vs Arctic https://youtu.be/yWTZdYVQN8M
https://youtu.be/3pq_y6oeGPE

The first set was commentated by AceStar, which is like a dream come true for me :p (even though the audio isn't great...)
The second set put me into losers bracket 1-2. I had literally never played a decent Lucario, not even on FG, so the matchup was entirely new to me. I think I'd do better with this set under my belt and with improvements to my own skill in the last month.
Unfortunately I don't have replays of my FAVORITE part of this tourney, my friendlies against Ace's Rosa.
Click to expand...
Yeah I wouldn't worry too much about the Lucario set, Lucario is a really wonky matchup for most of the cast and Bowser is no exception. Bair with hardly any landing lag killing bowser at 88 from across the stage? :sick:
 
Kooky Koopa

Kooky Koopa

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Jan 15, 2014
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86
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Koopa1989
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Had a long set against a Ganondorf today. Started out in my favour then we traded and then he started taking more games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBL9AGtg1uw

This was one of the middle games and would welcome any feedback for my neutral game. Towards the end I started getting far too aggro which got me killed and would really appreciate some observations or holes in my handling of the MU.
 
Big Sean

Big Sean

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Jun 3, 2003
Messages
484
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Berkeley
Kooky Koopa said:
Had a long set against a Ganondorf today. Started out in my favour then we traded and then he started taking more games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBL9AGtg1uw

This was one of the middle games and would welcome any feedback for my neutral game. Towards the end I started getting far too aggro which got me killed and would really appreciate some observations or holes in my handling of the MU.
Click to expand...
You need to step up your pivot grab game. At 0:54 with the backwards klaw, 1:15 with the pivot ftilt, and 1:19 with the pivot ftilt. If those were pivot grabs instead, you would have either connected, or done a lot more damage than you did. In fact I think post patch there's almost no reason to use pivot ftilt over pivot grab. It's pretty situational now.

This is a game where you had control of neutral the whole time so there's not much to comment on. If you see when you got damaged it was mostly misspaced moves, lack of teching, and a bit of over aggression. Slow your roll a bit when a ganon is in the air with a second jump. That is actually a very powerful position for them, unless you are directly under them with an up smash or up tilt. Their aerials will always beat yours.
 
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Kooky Koopa

Kooky Koopa

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Big Sean said:
You need to step up your pivot grab game. At 0:54 with the backwards klaw, 1:15 with the pivot ftilt, and 1:19 with the pivot ftilt. If those were pivot grabs instead, you would have either connected, or done a lot more damage than you did. In fact I think post patch there's almost no reason to use pivot ftilt over pivot grab. It's pretty situational now.

This is a game where you had control of neutral the whole time so there's not much to comment on. If you see when you got damaged it was mostly misspaced moves, lack of teching, and a bit of over aggression. Slow your roll a bit when a ganon is in the air with a second jump. That is actually a very powerful position for them, unless you are directly under them with an up smash or up tilt. Their aerials will always beat yours.
Click to expand...
Thanks Sean. Pivot grabs is something I never really have managed to integrate into my muscle memory yet but I guess now would be a good time to hit the training for it. Over aggression became a major issue in the latter half of the set, as we traded more I became less confident about my movement in the neutral. I was split between staying grounded 100% or trying to mix up which lead to a lot more matches going towards the Ganon.

Should I try to just walk 90% of the time or should I mix up dash staggering back and forth while maintaining space? Cheers again for your advice.
 
Big Sean

Big Sean

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Kooky Koopa said:
Thanks Sean. Pivot grabs is something I never really have managed to integrate into my muscle memory yet but I guess now would be a good time to hit the training for it. Over aggression became a major issue in the latter half of the set, as we traded more I became less confident about my movement in the neutral. I was split between staying grounded 100% or trying to mix up which lead to a lot more matches going towards the Ganon.

Should I try to just walk 90% of the time or should I mix up dash staggering back and forth while maintaining space? Cheers again for your advice.
Click to expand...
Aggression is fine, but there are a number of ways you can mix it up so that you aren't always committing to an attack. When you approach people I usually see dash grab and retreating fair. Both of those can be beaten by short hop aerials, which is what the ganon did a few times. There are couple of other options to make this a bit more paper rock scissory:

  • Dashing shield. This one is so important that I do this basically more than anything. The only thing that beats it is a hard read of standing grab. It's pretty amazing. I like to also like to do do some perfect shield-> jab OS stuff for frame perfect punishes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlGQpPg5PQc&index=17&list=PLFXOgPi6_N5Q1AR3Z9l549HBoZzpBAz0hY)
  • Dashing attack. Very dangerous but beats like every aerial option.
  • Stop Early. Pick some attack that you are afraid of. In the case of ganon it's like jab or nair. Stop out of range of those attacks coming out, bait them, and then pivot grab completely safely.
  • SHADC. This is super risky and should be used as a very rare mixup, but used sparingly it usually leads to free klaws, fortesses or even bowser bombs.

I would say dashing/foxtrotting to keep moving but in a sporadic noncommital way is kind of the ideal. I agree that that walking is underused, but at the end of the day if you watch all the top Bowsers (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLafWKd-RfF3dUYP1AUQXf7j08W2GvJkDb), it's really all about dashing and foxtrotting.
 
UltimaLuminaire

UltimaLuminaire

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Kooky Koopa Kooky Koopa To be more specific about when to walk in neutral, do it as a mix up and to ensure you control space that is contested, such as by projectiles. If your opponent is not a projectile user, as with Ganon, then walking may hurt you as it makes your spacing easier to grasp. Outside of neutral, when you're edge-guarding, you can just walk back and forth to bait things if you're confident in your understanding of the enemy's spacing (lookin' at Le Troof here :yeahboi:). Otherwise, do as Big Sean advises you.
 
Kooky Koopa

Kooky Koopa

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Big Sean Big Sean and UltimaLuminaire UltimaLuminaire

Normally I would be aware when it is right to dash, walk, and short hop but in this particular set, the constant trades and close games were making me unsure what option to take which would be completely safe, so things got a bit shaky.

Cheers for the links too! I'll try to integrate both SHADC, Pivot grabs and Dashing shield more often. The few cases I did try dash attack I was caught, as you saw in the video there but I'll reflect a lot more on my options in future. Thanks to both of you for the advice, I really appreciate it.
 
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J

Jerodak

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Don't forget that rolling is also a movement option, Bowser's roll isn't amazing but it's still worth using here and there, just remember that cutting out any option entirely means you're giving the opponent one less thing to think about. It's usually not worth it unless that option is so bad that using it is worse than having the option available as a mix-up. Though even then it may still have niche uses.
 
DineAuZor

DineAuZor

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I have created a second montage, and it is about the patch 1.1.3 so...

The Shell Shocker !


(My first montage about Bowser was Teh Lizard King
)
 
Calm_Animal

Calm_Animal

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Hey bowser crew!! i just had a question and see if anyone could critque my bowser against these to fox mu. cause the two fox player play different style one is aggressive and the other is passive. but yea i would love to get some small tips on the mu. i know it fairly well, but if there is more please let me know.
Phenom fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC2QiBZUEUc
Jayson Fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmAJNQLO6vY
the match starts at 2:25
 
Big Sean

Big Sean

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sup Calm_Animal Calm_Animal !

Phenom:

I think the story of this game, is stop pressing buttons. Around 1:21, you jab for no reason. 1:26 jab for no reason. 1:39 drop shield for no reason. I play the same way you play, anticipating pressure. Phenom was anticipating the pressure's pressure. 1:59 is the perfect example of this. He retreated faired, you were in shield. You then drop shield presumably to approach or jab, and then he pre-read your aggression and dash attacked you.

So the way to play against this style is to shield shield shield and occasionally roll. Just over shield. Force the fox to have to start grabbing. If he's reading your aggression and the hit's your shield with a dash attack or up smash, that's amazing! That's at least a free grab if not a bowser bomb/klaw. This is especially true near the end of your stock. Foxes have no kill confirms off grabs so who cares if he grabs you. Let him short hop fair -> double jump -> running up smash trick you. Just hold shield the entire time. He will absolutely dair -> up smash or raw up smash your shield I promise you. If he doesn't he can't take the game.

I also say roll because sometimes the pressure is too much. If your not sure if the will empty hop or dair or double jump, just roll away and reset. To get yourself from a bad situation to a neutral one is honestly such a breath of fresh air. You feel like they can't really do much to you when you shut down one of their best ways to do damage.

This fox and most foxes, often come back to the stage using side b. This is really one of bowser's times to shine. If you predict it at the edge. Firebreath is a good tool. If they are a little above you, always get a free up smash. If they are going to side b low, on reaction you should be able to run away from it and pivot grab. Always make the fox regret getting back to the stage this way.

Most of the time you got back from the ledge it seems like he found a way to punish you. There is something that works for me against this tricky type of short hop/full hop/dash grab type of pressure. Neutral getup -> fortress. A little risky with little reward, but it beats every single aggressive option in the game basically. The only thing he could really do is shield, and an aggressive fox like phenom, never showed that that was part of his game.


Jayson:
You don't need my help lol
 
CreamyFatone

CreamyFatone

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May 28, 2015
Messages
60
Calm_Animal said:
Hey bowser crew!! i just had a question and see if anyone could critque my bowser against these to fox mu. cause the two fox player play different style one is aggressive and the other is passive. but yea i would love to get some small tips on the mu. i know it fairly well, but if there is more please let me know.
Phenom fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC2QiBZUEUc
Jayson Fox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmAJNQLO6vY
the match starts at 2:25
Click to expand...
In regards to the first match, obviously I can't say for sure just off of one viewing, but that fox got in on you with virtually no resistance. That fox player knew that his frame data and movement were key advantages in the matchup for him, and went in with full confidence. What you need to do is learn to control his approach options with exercising jab1, ftilt, utilt, pivot ftilt, pivot grab etc, basically demonstrating a wall of hitboxes in order to slow him down and make him consider his approach. Don't just run in, patience is key. I notice that you go in a lot with a lot of risky reads, and throw out a lot of moves, but in matchups where the opponent has better frame data than Bowser, it's better to play more conservatively and hedge your bets on the fox making a mistake approaching you. I know fox has lasers, but creeping slowly into dash grab range will force him to stop and do something unless he thinks you're a coward. And it takes some time for him to put that gun away.

In the second match, the fox player basically respected you a lot more than the first one did, and in general just looks like he has less experience in the Bowser matchup. Honestly, once he messed up or you get a grab on him he get wrecked. That's how this matchup goes.

In general, I think that it's better if more work was put into maintaining stage control as Bowser by punishing landings and only making hard commitments when they don't have a large chance of you getting knocked off the stage. Consider using Upsmash on his landings more, as fox has less time in the air to react to it. Also, I kind of feel like more emphasis on Bowser's grab game is important in this matchup. There are some nasty things that Bowser can do to fox at low to mid percents, being a fast faller, with a good read after upthrow, which you are more likely to get than reads in neutral. At 0 you can pummel, upthrow, utilt, pivot grab, upthrow, nair, basically placing him at about 30% away from the upthrow, uair kill confirm. At about mid percent, the upthrow, turnaround bair can kill really early as fox is really light and dies even earlier off to the side.
 
Fanttum

Fanttum

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Yo Bowser Squad,

I don't show up here much these days, but got some videos I'd love feed back on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHQ9ZZsF9Gg&list=PL-sfdRzi5QIt4ac5996EvsxZY3Sev9tj0&index=9 Vs. PH_Mayo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ_u8IWGgzY&list=PL-sfdRzi5QIt4ac5996EvsxZY3Sev9tj0&index=3 Vs. PH_QT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPWPtVBMaQk&list=PL-sfdRzi5QIt4ac5996EvsxZY3Sev9tj0&index=10 Vs. JoseJFB

Anything you want to point out, or show differnt options I didn't use would be great.
I think we need to really step up the bowser meta as a whole and sharing with the community is a great start.
Tell me what y'all think, and hope you enjoy.
 
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Zethoro

Zethoro

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I'm sure most of you have seen it by now, but here's a close set between LordMix and M2K at Fusion 3.
 
constable lemon

constable lemon

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Messages
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Here's a match that was recorded from my recent local vs a Fox player. A couple things I know from watching it, I need to work on my shielding habits, I need to chase with aerials more, and I need to not get baited into unsafe options.



Fox's damage output really surprised me. I think I lost my jump a couple of times during up tilt strings which probably cost me a healthy chunk of damage. I was not expecting to be caught going for the ledge with an up smash at all either on Duck Hunt, I needed to realize I was vulnerable and get back to the ledge in a safer way.
 
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CreamyFatone

CreamyFatone

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constable lemon said:
Here's a match that was recorded from my recent local vs a Fox player. A couple things I know from watching it, I need to work on my shielding habits, I need to chase with aerials more, and I need to not get baited into unsafe options.



Fox's damage output really surprised me. I think I lost my jump a couple of times during up tilt strings which probably cost me a healthy chunk of damage. I was not expecting to be caught going for the ledge with an up smash at all either on Duck Hunt, I needed to realize I was vulnerable and get back to the ledge in a safer way.
Click to expand...
I think you've pretty much got it.

One thing I'll say though is that there were a few times where it seemed like you just didn't react to what happened. The fox did a Mangle, and you just kind of stood there stupified for a minute when you could have grabbed him or used fortress or something.

But yeah, first game he got baked by Bowser things, but in the second one he adapted and you didn't. Started baiting out your moves, taking advantage of Bowser's lag, etc. I kind of feel like a Bowser player should expect this ahead of time.
 
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Ghidorah14

Ghidorah14

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Jun 4, 2015
Messages
758
constable lemon said:
Here's a match that was recorded from my recent local vs a Fox player. A couple things I know from watching it, I need to work on my shielding habits, I need to chase with aerials more, and I need to not get baited into unsafe options.

Fox's damage output really surprised me. I think I lost my jump a couple of times during up tilt strings which probably cost me a healthy chunk of damage. I was not expecting to be caught going for the ledge with an up smash at all either on Duck Hunt, I needed to realize I was vulnerable and get back to the ledge in a safer way.
Click to expand...
Good games, lemon!

My advice; shield more, and shield longer. Fox kept catching you dropping your shield, because you were too eager to grab or punish a move. I'm sure you know this already, but fox loses to shields, period. You have nothing to fear from him grabbing you, as he cant combo off of it, or kill with it.

You were also playing a bit too aggro. You should try to take it a little slower, not run around as much (especially when you dont need to) and maybe try not to rely so much on grabs.

And of course, landing with aerial attacks is a big no-no. But then I make that mistake a lot too, tbh.
 
constable lemon

constable lemon

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CreamyFatone said:
I think you've pretty much got it.

One thing I'll say though is that there were a few times where it seemed like you just didn't react to what happened. The fox did a Mangle, and you just kind of stood there stupified for a minute when you could have grabbed him or used fortress or something.

But yeah, first game he got baked by Bowser things, but in the second one he adapted and you didn't. Started baiting out your moves, taking advantage of Bowser's lag, etc. I kind of feel like a Bowser player should expect this ahead of time.
Click to expand...
Yeah I definitely did not expect that situation where he landed right in front of me. Call it nerves but I wasn't thinking at all when that happened and reacted way too late. I guess that's just my lack of experience shining through. Thanks for the advice, both of you.
 
Big Sean

Big Sean

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constable lemon said:
Here's a match that was recorded from my recent local vs a Fox player. A couple things I know from watching it, I need to work on my shielding habits, I need to chase with aerials more, and I need to not get baited into unsafe options.



Fox's damage output really surprised me. I think I lost my jump a couple of times during up tilt strings which probably cost me a healthy chunk of damage. I was not expecting to be caught going for the ledge with an up smash at all either on Duck Hunt, I needed to realize I was vulnerable and get back to the ledge in a safer way.
Click to expand...
I think one of your major issues was landing. Watch how you land that last game. You always do the same thing, you burn your double jump, you air dodge, then you go straight to the ledge. On lylat vs fox i understand the fear because up smash and up air, but getting rid of your double jump just decreases your options. When you're in tumble as Bowser you have the option of landing laglessly with side b. Make sure to take advantage of this. It's powerful to laglessly land into jab or sidestep or shield. Landing with side b also opens up the option of grabbing someone who is trying to shield your dair. Rewatch that last game and see how many opportunities you missed where you could have grabbed him landing.

vs. Fox you have to be hyper aware that the only way they are going to kill you is with a raw up smash or dair -> up smash. That means that there is no fear keeping your shield up. During the first stock of the last game, the only way you could have possibly messed it up would be to be caught approaching without shield, and that's exactly what you did. Consider walking, shielding, making them approach you. Yes you can get grabbed, yes you can get shot with a laser. Those won't kill you, but what will likely happen is that your shield will get hit with a dair or an up smash and you can just pick any punish you want after that.
 
Zethoro

Zethoro

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Hey, I finally got some matches of my Bowser onto a recording setup in tournament (these were friendlies though, the tournament matches aren't up yet) so I thought I'd ask if you all would be willing to critique my Bowser.
I start playing Bowser at about 29 minutes in, and stop at about 42.
https://youtu.be/JillwkX-oes?t=1741
(Lots of shield break fails though...)
 
Big Sean

Big Sean

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LordMix vs Wrath https://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/v/69335797?t=37m1s
LordMix vs Vinnie https://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/v/69335797?t=1h3m40s
LordMix vs Ally https://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/v/69335797?t=1h45m40s

Good **** @LordMix your movement was crazy good and i'm in the lab now trynna catch up!

For the rosalina luma edge trap, I don't really have an answer, but one thing you could have tried is going under battlefield. I feel like somebody had a video showing that you can do it with Bowser.
 
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Fanttum

Fanttum

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Aug 23, 2015
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Big Sean said:
For the rosalina luma edge trap, I don't really have an answer, but one thing you could have tried is going under battlefield. I feel like somebody had a video showing that you can do it with Bowser.
Click to expand...
Even if Bowser can go all the way under, Rosa would easily have enough time to move across stage and spike.
No one seems to have a good answer for it, so time to lab :yeahboi:
 
DineAuZor

DineAuZor

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J

Jerodak

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18X3Qxv3EJY This is just some random game between myself ans a Sheik on FG, i've been posting random footage on a pretty regular basis in the Discord, a few players said they like the footage so I'll post this here for anyone who might not be in the discord yet. I'm not as frequent here on the boards but if anyone finds the footage helpful, there will be more on my channel. I'm also open to feedback, so let me know! Hope this helps!
 
Jester Kirby

Jester Kirby

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SmashVreyvus

SmashVreyvus

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Its been a while since I made a video, the first one was.. Well, newbie edittor and all! But I present to you my latest work!
 
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