Social Bowser's Castle

[Jerodak]

Good news everyone, after his presidential approval, the King has been working to bolster his Kingdom's finances by working for consuming Nintendo of America. With his human insurgent set, he will now have far more opportunities to rule the world.

I suppose you could say this makes Bowser... "The Boss"

 

[trombonophone99]

@ herpyderpherper I play on 3DS a lot. I'd be more than happy to participate lol, if it'll show them how wrong. Have you played against them at all?

@ herpyderpherper actually, did you show those guys an official ruleset for Smash 4? At least the one for Xanadu or something? Be like, "This is how the pros do it, why not you take after them?"

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Yo, just don't be too mean to kids. This ain't Cards Against Humanity.

 

[herpyderpherper]

yeah they didnt care at all about how they do it, at least they do 2 stock 6 minutes with all items off

the ruleset is what made them say that

Edit: sorry for the giant image and double post smashboards is derping a lot for me right now

 

[trombonophone99]

Yeah I started thinking I was being silly after I posted that lmao. It's not worth the time.

Just kinda sucks that they're doing a tournament with those bans, but if that's the case it's probably a tournament at someone's house. Like a kiddie tournament lol.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ Zigsta did anyone ever get back to you about APEX's BS Bowsercide rules? The thread you made turned into the Black Plague, and no one seems to know that Bowsercide even makes Bowser lose.

I think for clarity, Bowser always losing makes sense, but it's not like Bowser is super top tier anyway so I feel like he deserves all the help he can get.

 

[Big-Cat]

I need to play you guys sometime.

 

[trombonophone99]

@ KuroganeHammer The thing about making Bowsercide Bowser-friendly is that it's a LOT more cheap and less avoidable than other suicide moves. Most other suicide moves require the initiator to be off-stage with the victim (alluding to suicide dairs like Bowser's). Swallowciding and Ganonciding also require the initiator to be off-stage, but don't require the victim to be off-stage. It's still difficult to get those suicides against a smart opponent.

The thing about Bowser's side b is that it doesn't require a strict stage position to pull off like the above suicides. Especially with the control buffs, you can initiate the suicide from a quarter-stage's length from the ledge, maybe even more. It's also less telegraphed and less hard to hit, especially when used as a landing mix-up.

Maybe I'm just being too empathetic for the enemy. I certainly wouldn't complain if I could bowsercide on even stocks, mind you. Then again, you can't bowsercide vs. certain opponents anyway (cough villager cough) so maybe that could be an argument against my stance.

 

[MagiusNecros]

@ Zigsta did anyone ever get back to you about APEX's BS Bowsercide rules? The thread you made turned into the Black Plague, and no one seems to know that Bowsercide even makes Bowser lose.

I think for clarity, Bowser always losing makes sense, but it's not like Bowser is super top tier anyway so I feel like he deserves all the help he can get.

Actually it doesn't make sense. Bowser is on top of his opponent.

 

[Zigsta]

@ KuroganeHammer The thing about making Bowsercide Bowser-friendly is that it's a LOT more cheap and less avoidable than other suicide moves. Most other suicide moves require the initiator to be off-stage with the victim (alluding to suicide dairs like Bowser's). Swallowciding and Ganonciding also require the initiator to be off-stage, but don't require the victim to be off-stage. It's still difficult to get those suicides against a smart opponent.

The thing about Bowser's side b is that it doesn't require a strict stage position to pull off like the above suicides. Especially with the control buffs, you can initiate the suicide from a quarter-stage's length from the ledge, maybe even more. It's also less telegraphed and less hard to hit, especially when used as a landing mix-up.

Maybe I'm just being too empathetic for the enemy. I certainly wouldn't complain if I could bowsercide on even stocks, mind you. Then again, you can't bowsercide vs. certain opponents anyway (cough villager cough) so maybe that could be an argument against my stance.

Sadly no one ever got back to me. I really wasn't expecting any form of official response or apology though. After that weekend I lost all respect for Apex. It's not a professional organization.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sadly no one ever got back to me. I really wasn't expecting any form of official response or apology though. After that weekend I lost all respect for Apex. It's not a professional organization.

Well they did laugh at you. So that already said as much.

 

[trombonophone99]

@ Zigsta I think you have the wrong quote lol. But yeah, I read about that Apex incident somewhere in the forums and that sucks.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The argument that Bowser's suicide move requires less positioning to work is sound if you're only looking at these moves for this application. Yes, Ganon's Flame Choke requires him to get a grab while offstage, but it's not like the move isn't also terrifyingly effective while onstage. In fact, it's easily one of his best. Kirby and Dedede's swallowcide can also be used to spit out opponents at a point in which there's no chance to recover. Nobody's telling them they have to lose a stock in order to kill this way, and with their recovery, why should they let themselves die? Bowser's Flying Slam is (as of patch 1.06) now also a move with more reasonable uses than just suicide. A move that can be used in place of dash grab for kills. Landing intentionally on the top platform of Battlefield has never been easier.

That all being said, what I want most out of Bowsercide in a future update is some closure. Do the designers want this move to cause a sudden death, or to kill Bowser first? Whatever they choose, fix it so that all stages and phases of stages are uniform. I don't want to have to memorize half the list of omega stages where Bowsercide is bugged or forces sudden death. If the move will force sudden death 100% of the time, then good, we have grounds to petition for our suicide clause. I'm pretty sure players will agree that the initiator of a sudden death should win the match. It's not like the victim did anything to win. If it kills Bowser first instead, then it's time to move on from this subject. I'm tired of the Bowser main rep of a bunch of players asking the community to change the rules for one character's sole benefit. That's not fair or reasonable. The designers are the ones at fault here, not us.

*kicks down a chair and then puts it back upright before leaving.

 

[LIQUID12A]

The way I see it, you did it, you win. It's a hard move to land against some opponents, so reward that.

But APEX disagrees, so who knows. Just hoping that a future patch fixes things.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The devs apparently don't want to correct Flying Slam because of Magicant.

 

[trombonophone99]

@ Zapp Branniglenn I totally agree with the second paragraph. This isn't something Nintendo can just ignore. This whole mess with Slam affects ALL audiences, and they need to fix it.

@ LIQUID12A But what about a case where someone might be able to recover from a flying slam, like Villager? I feel like there's a lot of controversy concerning this.

@ MagiusNecros What's up with Magicant?

 

[MagiusNecros]

The flying men wouldn't die if bowser flying slammed them and kept bowser suspended forever.

So their solution was for Bowser to die first.

And so here we are.

 

[trombonophone99]

The flying men wouldn't die if bowser flying slammed them and kept bowser suspended forever.

So their solution was for Bowser to die first.

And so here we are.

Oh my god.

Now I have something else to be mad about other than them replacing Break the Targets with Angry Birds.

But wait, if Bowsercide still leads to sudden death on some stages, why can't they make it so that Bowser dies first on Magicant only? Hell, they don't even have magicant in WiiU version. Like what the ****.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Different blast zones. Sometimes finds Bowser first. Sometimes both players.

Ganoncide doesn't have this problem.

 

[trombonophone99]

I'd rather them make it so that you can't grab the Flying Men. It's not like anyone likes the regular stage anyway.

 

[herpyderpherper]

Oh i thought they nerfed it because casuals were complaining about it, @ trombonophone99 that would be the best solution, then maybe we could get our BowserSide back

 

[trombonophone99]

I wonder if there's a place where we can make a poll/petition where nintendo might see it and act off of that. Idk a young lad can dream.

Like at this point it's not even because I want to suicide people on even stocks, it's the REASON that I'm not able to, which is a friggin stage hazard that already ruined a good stage.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Not sure how to get a message across since they go off of data in the smash modes in fg and for fun.

 

[herpyderpherper]

Well somehow they saw the massive amounts of people who wanted lucas back, but we don't have nearly as many people as they did though

 

[trombonophone99]

Not sure how to get a message across since they go off of data in the smash modes in fg and for fun.

Oh right. That.
You know what I think I've ranted enough today lmao I don't even want to get started on that.

But if I ever do host a tourney (which I plan to in the future) I'll make it so that the Flying Slam would count like a ganoncide, regardless of what the character's recovery abilities are. *COUGHVILLAGERCOUGH*

 

[Kooky Koopa]

I recently won a doubles tournament. I stayed Bowser all the way as did my teammate stick to Ness. Was great fun and they make a surprisingly good team, Bowser can act as quite a good buffer for Ness when things get rough.

 

[LIQUID12A]

If any of you follow the Smash Tarot that Quas-quas is making...

Our glorious King.

 

[Hitman JT]

I've literally done nothing but practice ledge trumping for the last 2 weeks. Felt damn good when I hit someone with ledge trump > back-air and won a local with it yesterday.

 

[trombonophone99]

Ech, that reminds me I need to practice ledge trumping. Did you follow a specific standard when you were practicing @ Hitman JT like 10 reps on each side of the stage or something?

 

[Hitman JT]

Ech, that reminds me I need to practice ledge trumping. Did you follow a specific standard when you were practicing @ Hitman JT like 10 reps on each side of the stage or something?

I stand at a certain distance away from the ledge and try to do about 20 or so ledge grabs in a row from that distance without screwing up. I'll start off standing right at the ledge, where your character does that animation that looks like they're going to tumble off the stage. I'll do 20 in a row there, I'll take 1 or 2 steps back then dash and do them from there, then I'll stand about 1/3 to 1/2 of the stage away and do ledge grabs from a full running animation. Then switch sides and do it all over again. After all that I'll set CPU Mario to about 79% then back-air him off the stage and practice the ledge trump timing from each of those distances.

Practice makes habit...but perfect practice makes perfect...
Wrestling coach used to preach that to us every day...

 

[trombonophone99]

@ Hitman JT Thanks, definitely gonna use this method!

 

[Hitman JT]

I like to think of the ledge grab as Cammy's Hooligan Combo move...a really fast

I have more success ending with up-back than with just a regular half-circle motion

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Perfect practice makes perfect is actually what my art mentor would tell me. Man, that takes me back.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Perfection? No such thing.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ MagiusNecros Perfecting is not the same as perfection. The process matters, especially if you're picking up a skill. Developing bad habits when picking up a skill can not only be detrimental to learning the skill itself, but it can severely injure yourself and others if you aren't careful.

 

[Cassius.]

To add to that, that's one of the reasons why experienced players usually try to tell you to not take shortcuts on learning tech skill/inputs in any game (fighting games especially, ie Plink Dashing or Lightning/Hyper Grav Loops in UMvC3 or DP FADC Ultra in SF, etc.) You absolutely have to learn how to do something properly or "the hard way" before you find something that is comfortable for your tastes.

Shortcuts in themselves are bad habits, and can shortchange the learning process or decrease your success rate. A lot of advanced tech just stems from applications of basic or moderately complicated techniques. If you take the shortcut way to learn how to use a technique, what happens when you have to bring it together with something else?

 

[trombonophone99]

Random note here, went to a tourney this past Saturday called Tampa Never Sleeps. (P.S. It was my second ever offline tourney). Esam was there and he was the TO of my pool. On my third match, I played against a Sheik, I went Bowser for the whole set. We got to game 3, Townsville, both only at 1 stock, me at 190% and Sheik at 100%. I managed to clutch the **** out of it with a run-off fair, half the venue goes crazy and gets hyped as ****, and Esam says, "That's a pretty good Bowser."

*faints*

And I was literally trembling and had to take a long drink of water lmao.

 

[Cassius.]

did you make it out of pools?

 

[trombonophone99]

No unfortunately, lost to a Bowser Jr. next match. Went to game 3, I switched to Ness then thinking he may have figured out my Bowser, but like an idiot I picked Lylat. It was a combination of jitters from that last match and lacking in stage knowledge. I am going to crack down on that tho, study the stages more in-depth and see which ones are more beneficial.

Oh plus, no johns, but it was a pretty big tourney too, like 100 entrants or something.

 

[Cassius.]

Yeah, I can imagine. The Florida scene is alive and kicking.

Don't be afraid to take your time in between games to gather your bearings, take a swig of water, inhale/exhale deeply, etc. You have to play the game at your own pace so that you don't end up making a foolish decision. The tournament jitters will become less of a factor when you participate in more high-stakes events like money matches/tournament matches themselves. It's all subjective and everyone handles those situations differently.

Stacked tournaments are the best way to see where you stand in your scene. So good job, keep heading out to those events and you will definitely improve.