• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Social Bowser's Castle

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
-Fix grounded Fortress so that you cannot slide off platforms or ledges when hit by wind.
-If the above change isn't possible, then allow us to slide off ledges and platforms again with Fortress. It's just so inconsistent. Do you want Fortress to slide off platforms or not? Pick one and stick with it Nintendo.
Regarding Fortress, it's a tough call. In previous games, Bowser had an absurd ledge getup attack, so using Fortress to fall off, grab the ledge and attack was something very difficult to approach and deal with. But now that that attack is changed, the ability to fall off ledges with Fortress in Smash 4 would only give us an easy, slower means of ledgetrumping. Bowser is quite vulnerable when hanging on a ledge compared to, Melee or Project M, where everybody is a threat on the ledge. I guess if we were pushed to the edge of the stage, and we used OoS Fortress and missed, we could retreat to a ledge to avoid incoming punishes. But then you'd be in another punishable situation, the ledge.

For what it's worth, I basically crushed all arguments in the thread on the competitive forums.

Also, where was the update announced? I can't find news of it anywhere...
In yesterday's Nintendo Direct. Patch 1.06 (that would be 1.03 for the Wii U version) is coming out on April 15th. It will include Mewtwo for people that registered both games, Mii fighter outfits that can be purchased as DLC, the ability to finally share replays, mii fighters, and custom stages, and gameplay balancing.

As for making grounded fortress immune to windboxes, I don't know what to tell ya. It conflicts with the design philosophy. If you were pushed off a ledge while performing Dsmash, it would put Bowser into neutral falling state, since there's no air version of a move like Dsmash.

I agree with Jab 1 and Bowser bomb's rising hit, though most of the time I've had the moves not connect, it happened in training mode while testing things out, and not in actual matches. But training mode reveals that its entirely possible for the victim to escape without inputs. Jab 1's hitbox is actually pretty interesting. It pushes opponents away from Bowser based on how close they are. But when spaced so that only the tip connects, they don't get sent anywhere. I'd say that Jab 1 and Bowser Bomb rising hit should have weight based knockback, but I'm not too certain how that works to know if that would be a good change.

I just thought it would be nice if his Fire Breath behaved more like Charizard's Flamethrower, where the flames cause flinching from any distance. It's not likely to happen though as it's probably intentional design meant to distinguish the two.

His zoning and edge-guarding game would improve considerably, if this happens. ^-^
Perhaps. It's such a little thing, but I kind of like how it deviates between hurtboxes and simple, damaging windboxes. It throws off people trying to recover through a stream of flame. Have you ever tried jumping through fire? The results may not be as consistent as in the movies.
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
That's fair. I kind of agree with a good amount of what Chad wants to see changed. Also, what's good with the Bowser fam & twitter? Do you guys have accounts? All I speak to is Ixis lmao
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
Location
Honolulu, HI
I don't have an active twitter. :(


As for making grounded fortress immune to windboxes, I don't know what to tell ya. It conflicts with the design philosophy. If you were pushed off a ledge while performing Dsmash, it would put Bowser into neutral falling state, since there's no air version of a move like Dsmash.
I never said I wanted it to be immune to wind. I want it to not be able to get pushed off ledges, because the current design of the move prevents you from spinning off ledges to begin with.

When a grounded Fortress gets sent off a ledge because of wind, it doesn't turn into the air Fortress, it's still the grounded fortress but in the air. Makes it seem like you could probably Fortress off ledges in earlier builds of the game, but Sakurai removed it for some reason. Probably to prevent bad players from SDing.

I just want consistency. There's no reason to have this many arbitrary design choices. (See: Bowsercides)


I'd say that Jab 1 and Bowser Bomb rising hit should have weight based knockback, but I'm not too certain how that works to know if that would be a good change.
Why would you suggest a change that you don't understand?
 
Last edited:

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
They announced it the same way they announce all Nintendo news nowadays.

Nintendo Direct.
Ah okay. I saw that there was a direct but I couldn't find anyone actually discussing the patch via news itself...
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
Location
Honolulu, HI
It's because there's not much to say really. No specific details about the balance path were given, because this is a Nintendo game and Nintendo never gives out patch notes ever.

We're just gonna have to wait until someone like Dantarion data mines the patch and sees exactly what Nintendo changed.
 
Last edited:

Uncle

Novus Ordo Seclorum
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
1,480
Location
North Carolina
This might be a controversial opinion, but here's what I want for Klaw/Flying Slam.....

-Upon a successful grab, Bowser flies straight up and slams straight down with his opponent, much like Zangief's Spinning Piledriver in the Street Fighter series. I want no more control struggle BS, even if the developers fix the buggy programming behind it. As many of you already know, sometimes you have no control even when you have lower damage.

-If a Bowsercide happens now (It can only happen if you land the grab offstage), then the opponent always dies first. Bowser is freaking on top of you, after all.
 
Last edited:

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
Why would you suggest a change that you don't understand?
Good thing I didn't eh? All jabs are escapable. Even the jab infinites people were going crazy over just a while back. To make Jab 1 inescapable, when we have frame trapping and even harsh followups with moves like Fsmash and Bomb, is just unfair. It's like if Fox's Uair from Melee were inescapable. How lame would that be? We know better than most that Bowser's jab is excellent, and actually quite consistent. Try out other character's jabs and you'll see just how worse they can be in this regard.

You want consistency regarding whether Bowser can fall off a ledge during fortress. But making it so you couldn't be pushed off would create an inconsistency in the programming of special moves. Every character should be pushed off by a windbox in any scenario, except for obvious ones like having dodged or shielded a windbox. And if you are pushed off during a whiffed OoS fortress, at least you can boost your height to attempt a recovery to the ledge. I like the idea of being punished for a whiffed fortress. It forces me to not autopilot Fortress OoS like I would in previous games.
 

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
1547-5526-6811
I have a Twitter for Smash and for film/personal stuff:

@Zigsta_film
@Hewittfilms
 

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
It's because there's not much to say really. No specific details about the balance path were given, because this is a Nintendo game and Nintendo never gives out patch notes ever.

We're just gonna have to wait until someone like Dantarion data mines the patch and sees exactly what Nintendo changed.
Right. The timing made me wonder if people were spreading an April fools rumor or something...

And as for patch notes, yeah, it's incredibly annoying that they don't tell us anything specific. Even super casual games like WoW and TF2 supply patch notes...
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
Location
Honolulu, HI
Try out other character's jabs and you'll see just how worse they can be in this regard.
I'm quite aware. However, that doesn't mean that this shouldn't be fixed. This is bad game design that plagues a lot of the cast.

A player should not be punished for landing a move successfully.


You want consistency regarding whether Bowser can fall off a ledge during fortress. But making it so you couldn't be pushed off would create an inconsistency in the programming of special moves. Every character should be pushed off by a windbox in any scenario, except for obvious ones like having dodged or shielded a windbox. And if you are pushed off during a whiffed OoS fortress, at least you can boost your height to attempt a recovery to the ledge. I like the idea of being punished for a whiffed fortress. It forces me to not autopilot Fortress OoS like I would in previous games.
It's arbitrary changes like removing Bowser's ability to spin off ledges that causes these inconsistencies to begin with. Unless the change is extremely justified, it's probably not a good idea to do it.


And as for patch notes, yeah, it's incredibly annoying that they don't tell us anything specific. Even super casual games like WoW and TF2 supply patch notes...
Nintendo doesn't want kiddies to get mad that they nerfed their favorite character. Look how mad grown ass adults get when they read smash patch notes.
 

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
Nintendo doesn't want kiddies to get mad that they nerfed their favorite character. Look how mad grown *** adults get when they read smash patch notes.
Oh, I know. They wait for us to arduously figure it out for ourselves, THEN we get mad. ;)
 

Ixisnaugus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
316
Location
UK, London
NNID
IxisNaugus
The issue with Nair is that it is a multihit move, so it's hard to get a favorable hit during neutral, even if you bait an airdodge. Compare it to Villager's Nair for example. Bowser's Nair is utter trash in comparison because of this.

If they made Bowser' Nair a single hit move with a sour hit near the end for balance, the move would be aaaaamazing. So many uses.


Here's a list of changes I would want for Bowser. Most of these changes are small things because I assume the top tiers are gonna get nerfed as well. Most of these aren't buffs so much as they are just fixes really.

-Fix Jab1 so that the knockback angle always allows it to combo into Jab2. Consistency.
-Fix Utilt so it actually hits in front of Bowser's face. The animation covers Bowser's front, so why not?
-Fix Bowser Bomb so that the rising hit will always combo into the falling hit. Just for consistency.
-Fix grounded Fortress so that you cannot slide off platforms or ledges when hit by wind.
-If the above change isn't possible, then allow us to slide off ledges and platforms again with Fortress. It's just so inconsistent. Do you want Fortress to slide off platforms or not? Pick one and stick with it Nintendo.
Any fixes for multi-part moves to make them land consistently I am pretty much all for. Bowser isn't rewarded for spacing a number of his moves because followups aren't consistent. Spaced DownB as you say doesn't allow opponents to fall into the second hit, or at least not consistently. It discourages the use of a number of moves and that is not ok. In the case of DownB, I thought about them changing it so Bowser moves more horizontally on the upward jump after the first hit, so that he can hit spaced opponents, however, this presents the problem that if the move is used deep then the second hit could potentially whiff when the move is used unspaced, or if the opponent decides to DI towards Bowser on the first hit, so I agree that it should be made so that the first hit simply drags the opponent closer towards where Bowser positions himself before the second hit.

As for UTilt, I think it has enough utility that the move doesn't need additional damageboxes to allow it to hit in front of Bowser, because it is partially invulnerable (and I quite like turn-around UTilt ;P). My issue with this move is that it had its startup and knockback growth nerfed from Brawl. I can understand the knockback reduction, because it was bloody strong before, and fast at 8 frames, but it's weaker and slower at 12 frames of startup, and that makes the moves worth questionable. Diddy lives this move with no DI and nothing on the rage multiplier at ~120%. This is supposed lighter weighted character. I understand we can kill earlier with enough manipulation on the rage multiplier, but opponents can also DI to live longer. The move already has 12 frames of startup, it does have a nice arc on the animation, and is active for 5 frames, but I feel it could stand to be a tad stronger on hit. Its replacement options in the situations we're inclined to it are far more risky, and we don't always have the time to charge up a Smash attack, or position ourselves correctly to land a Uair or something. if they don't want to improve this moves base knockback, then I believe it should be a couple frames faster, no more than 10 frames, because at 12 frames it's still rather slow to start up, and we can miss punishes on faster falling characters because of this.

Grounded Fortress I believe should be as manoeuvrable as it was before, with the ability to slide off ledges and reduce lag. We should be able to move at least as much as we could in Brawl; It isn't a big ask when you think about it. Look at the move, it lost all invulnerability, still is first active on frame 6 and still has an incredibly lengthy duration. It's not going to save us in a pinch. It's still alright OoS because a 6 frame option that hits both in front and behind is pretty good and doesn't mean we get crossed through for free. Plus it's active for a long time, so it also punishes landings ok. However, when this move whiffs, we ****ing die, and that is not fair because the move isn't worth that. Also, this move has a problem with people slipping out, this needs to be fixed, because punishing with it becomes inconsistent, and a move this committed deserves consistency with its hits.


Although if you want Bowser to be GOOD in this game, here are some actual buffs.

-Fortress now invincible from frames 1-5.
-Air Klaw active frames increased from 1 to 3. Hitbox expanded forward and downward.
-Ftilt now has IASA frames.
-Nair now single hit, with a sourspot for balance.
-Fair knockback increased slightly.
-Adjust autoguard so that it comes out on Usmash release.
-Make hit2 of Usmash ground opponents. If someone gets hit by that, they deserve to die.
I'm actually going to suggest that Fortress doesn't get its invulnerability back. It was backbone of Bowser's game previously, only because his frame data was so ****, that in a multitude of situations, Fortress was just the best option. I think invulnerable Fortress is something that could be described as toxic. It was cheap, and I don't think it'd be good to make Bowser "good" by giving him a really cheap option. Instead, what I believe they should do is improve his frame data across the board. Speed some moves up a little so they can used more reliably in suggested situations, reduce recovery here and there. It'd make Bowser a lot more stable and reliable, instead of just mashing UpB when in doubt like we did before. In fact I thought that was what they were going for when I first realized Fortress' invulnerability was gone, and to my horror his frame data only got worse. Jab 1 needs to be faster, at least frame 5, which I think is perfect for it. Fair should be a couple frames faster like it was before, or at least auto-cancel, so Bowser can have some kind of air-to-ground option.

Klaw in general needs more active frames, because it is blasphemy that it's active for a single frame, especially with reduced range, smaller grabbox(es), more recovery on hit, still no consistent control of the move, us dying first offstage and no more grab armor. The move has no neutral use, when it was previously one of the pillars of our neutral game. I believe it should specifically get more grabboxes, because it whiffs from unholy ranges, and is useless as an air-to-ground option. I also completely agree with more active frames, because with no grab armor there is no reason the move should be active for just a single frame. It's still a strong and fast punishment option on the ground, so I feel it should really only get these buffs.

FTilt I think should have slightly more range. Its range is still decent, but with the recovery it has now it's hard to justify using it in place of Jab, and its range is not significantly more than Jab that FTilt is a solid option in that zone where Jab is just a tad too short. Plus, pivot FTilt has less range is a ****ing useless because of it. This needs to change. I don't really feel like FTilt would benefit from interuptable frames, I'm curious as to why you suggest that specifically.

Nair I'm not certain what to do with. Being a multi-hit move gives Nair the niche that it's a safe option to bait airdodges. Is that enough? I'd say no, but the Nair we had before was just as useless. A single-hit move with the same amount of active but a sourspot could make it more rewarding to land, actually, if it's used as a general means of hitting through airdodges, so that's a change I can agree with.

Fair as I said earlier I believe should be as fast as it was before, or finally properly autocancel, so we can actually use the damn thing. When Bowser short hops, the opponent has nothing to fear, and I don't think that's ok because his ground options are ****. Even with my suggest improvements so far, it'd still be a big weakness and I believe it needs to be addressed. Fair was a semi-decent poke air poke in Brawl and I think it should be at least as it was before. He can be weak in the air, but he can't be worthless, it isn't fair. I think your suggested knockback buff along with improved startup, like 8 frames instead of 11 would make the move threatening enough to be respected more in neutral and on descent.

I agree with USmash partial invulnerability being active earlier than the frame 14. I'm not certain about on release, that might be a bit much, but for sure earlier than it is now.

I also agree with the suggested change to the ground hit of USmash. It's a lot weaker than both the sweet and sour spots or the initial hit, and is active only for a single frame. Grounding opponents is a fine reward.

I don't have an active twitter. :(
Get one so I can spam yoooouuuuuu ;D
 
Last edited:

Jerodak

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
1,098
Location
North Carolina
NNID
Jerodak
3DS FC
1633-5601-9085
Grounded Fortress I believe should be as manoeuvrable as it was before, with the ability to slide off ledges and reduce lag. We should be able to move at least as much as we could in Brawl; It isn't a big ask when you think about it. Look at the move, it lost all invulnerability, still is first active on frame 6 and still has an incredibly lengthy duration. It's not going to save us in a pinch. It's still alright OoS because a 6 frame option that hits both in front and behind is pretty good and doesn't mean we get crossed through for free. Plus it's active for a long time, so it also punishes landings ok. However, when this move whiffs, we ****ing die, and that is not fair because the move isn't worth that. Also, this move has a problem with people slipping out, this needs to be fixed, because punishing with it becomes inconsistent, and a move this committed deserves consistency with its hits.


I'm actually going to suggest that Fortress doesn't get its invulnerability back. It was backbone of Bowser's game previously, only because his frame data was so ****, that in a multitude of situations, Fortress was just the best option. I think invulnerable Fortress is something that could be described as toxic. It was cheap, and I don't think it'd be good to make Bowser "good" by giving him a really cheap option. Instead, what I believe they should do is improve his frame data across the board. Speed some moves up a little so they can used more reliably in suggested situations, reduce recovery here and there. It'd make Bowser a lot more stable and reliable, instead of just mashing UpB when in doubt like we did before. In fact I thought that was what they were going for when I first realized Fortress' invulnerability was gone, and to my horror his frame data only got worse. Jab 1 needs to be faster, at least frame 5, which I think is perfect for it. Fair should be a couple frames faster like it was before, or at least auto-cancel, so Bowser can have some kind of air-to-ground option.
Fortress's hitbox was also nerfed, it's quite a bit smaller than it was before, except on the very last hit where there's a large disjoint. It wouldn't need to be improved with your suggestions though, I'm just presenting this to further support your argument. Also, I like the idea of better frame data over I-frames. That'd be pretty solid, and would also solve a lot of issues.

One thing that I think could also be adjusted is the Fsmash, I think it could stand to lose the sourspot at the end, and possibly be a bit more active, it no longer winds back like it used to, in fact Bowser extends himself forward during the charge animation, also when you release the move there are a number of frames where he's moving forward, extending his hurtbox even further without an active hitbox out. This would allow the move to threaten from further away, so it could possibly be used more effectively for whiff punishing, and it'd make for a stronger pivot option.

I also think Dsmash could use some adjusting, it can also be inconsistent at times, so that could be fixed up a bit and I think either the entire spinning animation can be active or it could just deal more damage, possibly both. Everything else about it is fine though.
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
Location
Honolulu, HI
I don't really feel like FTilt would benefit from interuptable frames, I'm curious as to why you suggest that specifically.
It tightens up Bowser's neutral by making Ftilt a better anti air. It's too punishable by faster characters in this game atm. (Like Sheik)

Being able to move faster after a Ftilt whiff would make me extremely happy.
 
Last edited:

Shök

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
2,251
That's fair. I kind of agree with a good amount of what Chad wants to see changed. Also, what's good with the Bowser fam & twitter? Do you guys have accounts? All I speak to is Ixis lmao
You're dead to me.
 

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
I'd like to see the reward for landing D-smash to be substantially higher than it is.

It either needs more damage, a LOT more knockback, or to do something neat like reflect projectiles (which they'll never do).

Right now, it's basically a slower fortress with a slightly larger hitbox and no sliding ability.
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
Just charge up smash. Why are you using DSmash

In literally every instance you may think DSmash may be an okay move to do, you can do something else and take a stock.

Get your punish game on point man

Let's also start a "Get Chad on Twitter" campaign
 
Last edited:

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
Just charge up smash. Why are you using DSmash
I'm not. ;)

But that's exactly the point: a move that is outclassed by at least two other moves in every situation may as well not even exist.
Bowser has limited enough options already. While other characters have tools that can be used for multiple things and are extremely adaptable (ie monkey flip), Bowser is stuck with a very limited toolkit, and god knows he has enough weaknesses that being limited in his tools isn't helping him any.
 

B!squick

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,629
Location
The Sunny South
My prediction for the next patch:

Flying Slam instantly kills Bowser without the needless Flying or Slamming part of the move to make it more streamlined. But only on certain stages. Please consult the spread sheet for the 23 other possible outcomes that vary based on stage and the present lunar phase.

Greninja USmash made slightly weaker.
 

Karsticles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
386
Location
Colorado
NNID
Karsticles
I just want three Bowser changes:
1) Aerial Fortress can now be B reversed so it latches when facing away from the ledge.

2) Klaw no longer whiffs at point blank range.

3) Klaw is altered such that landing it is never a dubious decision. I don't care about the specifics here.

Then I would be happy. Though I would still use Dash Slash because I have grown to love it. Outside of these three major fixes, I would just love to see buffs to his customs so that they are worth considering. Make Flying Fortress KO at like 80%, let the fireball recover faster, let Fire Roar either do sick damage or last longer, let Turbulent Bomb break shields, let Slip Bomb trip for twice as long or recover faster, give Klaw armor, and let Sliding Fortress startup and recover faster.

Then we would have an interesting full set of customs to work with and consider.
 

LIQUID12A

Smash Modder
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
16,477
Location
South Florida
NNID
LIQUID12A
3DS FC
0877-1606-0815
Hey Bowser buds, wall o' text incoming.

So...I did my first ever Smash tournament today. A small scale one, but a tournament nonetheless. How'd it go, you ask?

Decent.

Out of 25 singles entrants, I placed 10th running solo-Bowser. Double elimination.

The opponents were like For Glory matches; you struggle with some, you plow through others, which isn't surprisng considering that very few good players are around here. Characters I fought against included Meta Knight, Marth, Kirby, Shulk, Dedede, Donkey Kong, Dr Mario, Pittoo, Palutena and Link, plus some others.

I had some ease getting through the Dr Mario, Pittoo and Kirby players. Narrowly escaped getting sent to losers bracket from both Shulk and Dedede. When I did get knocked to losers, it was by Meta Knight.

I fought my way through losers, knocking out the DK, Link and Palutena players. Then that one match came, where I almost got knocked out myself.

A Robin.

Whoever was playing that Robin must have studied the guides since she(the player) was using nairplanes a lot and constantly keeping me guessing. Easily the most tense set of the entire gig for me. We tied at one point 1-1, but through sheer luck I managed to clutch that third match through a risky dair spike on Pyrosphere Omega. A Robin had never given me that much trouble before, and that made the win all the better.

Unfortunately, my streak through losers was stopped by a Lucario after bashing through a Pac-Man next set. I sat at the aforementioned 10th place, not bad for my first try. I stayed to watch the wrap-up, culminating in a Captain Falcon taking first, Sonic taking second, and a Diddy of all things taking third.

Despite losing, I enjoyed myself here. First time I've had legitimate competition in months due to no Wii U yet.

Now, Bowser-wise, I was the only one in that entire thing. Had some players rooting for me too. 10th place with a character I've still not mastered in my first tourney wasn't so bad. I'm looking to attend more tourneys and make a name for myself as a Bowser main. And to have an excuse to shout "SHOWTIME" in the future.:4bowser:
 

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
[quote="Karsticles, post: 18908230, member: 97103"

2) Klaw no longer whiffs at point blank range.
[/quote]

I investigated this previously to see what the deal was. For one thing, it was never an issue of opponents crouching under the grab box. You can grab even a crouching G&W. The issue is Bowser moving into the opponent. Bowser occupies quite a bit of "space" as a character, and when two characters occupy the same space in Smash, they get pushed away from each other. Like a negative magnetic response. When the move whiffs, the would-be victim gets pushed into the move's range just after its one active grabbox frame, making it appear as if the move whiffed for no reason. But that's not all, Bowser's run is very quick in Smash 4, and give his specials out of run quite a bit of a slide. The only way for Flying Slam and Dash Slam to whiff is at point blank...from a dash/run. No other instance. And it certainly helps if the opponent's hurtbox is condensed as much as possible, not moving at all. Like say, when you're sitting in shield. While shields do have a hurtbox greater than the character they're shielding, they can't be grabbed, only attacked.

So Flying Slam and Dash Slam whiff at point blank while in motion. Lots of moves do. Compare to a dash grab, where the hitbox is designed to be close to the character's body, since it can only be performed while in motion. There are more reasons than just this whiff scenario that Flying Slam should have more than one active frame. I mean, Dash Slam has twelve. And so what if it whiffs at point blank, you'll be using it at a greater distance away anyway because Bowser is physically launched as part of the move.
 

S_B

Too Drunk to Smash
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
3,977
Location
NH, Discord: SB#6077
Switch FC
SW 5369-1969-6280
I just want three Bowser changes:
1) Aerial Fortress can now be B reversed so it latches when facing away from the ledge.
Oh god, yes.

I've had a hell of a time catching ledges backwards for some reason lately...

Also, an irrelevant but telling Bowser tidbit: Gigabowser's grounded bomb never actually connects. The opponent will be hit by the first hitbox but the second won't land because it knocks them higher than GB jumps.

More evidence that Sakurai could not give less of a **** about Bowser, heh...
 
Last edited:

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
1547-5526-6811
Hey Bowser buds, wall o' text incoming.

So...I did my first ever Smash tournament today. A small scale one, but a tournament nonetheless. How'd it go, you ask?

Decent.

Out of 25 singles entrants, I placed 10th running solo-Bowser. Double elimination.

The opponents were like For Glory matches; you struggle with some, you plow through others, which isn't surprisng considering that very few good players are around here. Characters I fought against included Meta Knight, Marth, Kirby, Shulk, Dedede, Donkey Kong, Dr Mario, Pittoo, Palutena and Link, plus some others.

I had some ease getting through the Dr Mario, Pittoo and Kirby players. Narrowly escaped getting sent to losers bracket from both Shulk and Dedede. When I did get knocked to losers, it was by Meta Knight.

I fought my way through losers, knocking out the DK, Link and Palutena players. Then that one match came, where I almost got knocked out myself.

A Robin.

Whoever was playing that Robin must have studied the guides since she(the player) was using nairplanes a lot and constantly keeping me guessing. Easily the most tense set of the entire gig for me. We tied at one point 1-1, but through sheer luck I managed to clutch that third match through a risky dair spike on Pyrosphere Omega. A Robin had never given me that much trouble before, and that made the win all the better.

Unfortunately, my streak through losers was stopped by a Lucario after bashing through a Pac-Man next set. I sat at the aforementioned 10th place, not bad for my first try. I stayed to watch the wrap-up, culminating in a Captain Falcon taking first, Sonic taking second, and a Diddy of all things taking third.

Despite losing, I enjoyed myself here. First time I've had legitimate competition in months due to no Wii U yet.

Now, Bowser-wise, I was the only one in that entire thing. Had some players rooting for me too. 10th place with a character I've still not mastered in my first tourney wasn't so bad. I'm looking to attend more tourneys and make a name for myself as a Bowser main. And to have an excuse to shout "SHOWTIME" in the future.:4bowser:
Congrats on your first placement! Who won the tournament?
 

LIQUID12A

Smash Modder
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
16,477
Location
South Florida
NNID
LIQUID12A
3DS FC
0877-1606-0815
Sorry, didn't see that.
It's cool.

I didn't fight the Falcon himself, but from how he played, I dunno if I could have handled him.

I mean, I had enough trouble with a well played zoner, so someone faster than Bowser and my brain would be hell.
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
Well, those are two different styles and character archetypes. It depends on how good you are at adjusting to character-specific and player-specific match ups.
 

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
1547-5526-6811
Anyone see Furious 7 over the weekend? It's crazy entertaining. I highly recommend it!
 

UltimaLuminaire

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
643
Location
TX
NNID
UltimaLuminaire
I'll be watching Furious 7 tomorrow. After hearing from Black Nerd Comedy that it's basically a super hero movie, I'm more hyped than ever to see it with my friends haha.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
I'll be watching Furious 7 tomorrow. After hearing from Black Nerd Comedy that it's basically a super hero movie, I'm more hyped than ever to see it with my friends haha.
Everybody wants their own cinematic universe with inter-connected tales and characters that may one day appear onscreen together. While this series hasn't quite turned into the Avengers, it seems to be doing a better job at this hot, money-making strategy than the Avengers' would-be competitors, the DC Cinematic Universe. It's funny, and a little sad.

I have seen Fast 7 with my brother just yesterday. though my illness hindered my ability to eat my weight in popcorn. I enjoy life the way I enjoy my popcorn - A kernel mile at a time.
 

LIQUID12A

Smash Modder
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
16,477
Location
South Florida
NNID
LIQUID12A
3DS FC
0877-1606-0815
Furious 7 is great.

While this series hasn't quite turned into the Avengers, it seems to be doing a better job at this hot, money-making strategy than the Avengers' would-be competitors, the DC Cinematic Universe. It's funny, and a little sad..
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 
Last edited:

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
1547-5526-6811
I'll be watching Furious 7 tomorrow. After hearing from Black Nerd Comedy that it's basically a super hero movie, I'm more hyped than ever to see it with my friends haha.
It's absolutely the most superhero-esque a film can be without actually being a superhero film.
 

LIQUID12A

Smash Modder
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
16,477
Location
South Florida
NNID
LIQUID12A
3DS FC
0877-1606-0815
Even if I had to pay for a Kenny James Bowser voice in Smash I'd do it.

His work as our favorite tyrant is unprecedented, And it's sorely missing here.
 

MagiusNecros

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
3,176
Yeah Kenny Bowser James played the voice in all recent games except for Smash. Lame.
 
Top Bottom