Bowser Frame Data (In-depth and Accurate)

[Flayl]

Updated first post with a link to an online metronome so you can practice your leet pummeling skills.

I think I'm done with this topic, I'll ask bowser king to merge the posts with his guide/ frame data thread.

 

[Bowser King]

All right, merged it to the best of my abilities. If you need any changes just ask.

 

[Sliq]

Is Bowser's hitlag the same as his opponents shield hit lag?

Also, isn't the frame advantage on f-tilt -15?

(BLOCKHITLAG + BLOCKSTUN) - HITLAG - (DURATION - HIT) = FRAME ADVANTAGE

(9 + 12) - 9 - (37-10) = FA

21 - 9 - 27 = FA

-15 = FA

Am I missing something? I am assuming Bowser's hitlag is the same as his opponents shield hit lag, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Flayl]

They're the same so listing them both is redundant. Seeing the end frame advantage is easy enough - Bowser FTilts and holds shield, opponent hold shield and lets go when hit. I'll check it out myself.

 

[Flayl]

I can confirm that there are 9 frames where Bowser and the shielding opponent are frozen. After that I can get the shield to disappear from the defending character in an additional 4 or so frames (I'm not working with the frame-by-frame code so it's hard).

3GOD's post says the blockstun is 12.

So what happens is that the shield stun in the OP already includes the blockhitlag. Shield stun = (BLOCKHITLAG + BLOCKSTUN)

So 12 - 9 - (37 - 10) = -24 FA.

 

[B!squick]

24 frames is so long. D:

 

[Sliq]

Goddammit that is ridiculous.

 

[Flayl]

If it weren't for shield knockback FTilt would be a bottom-tier move.

 

[JOE!]

THREADCROMANCE

anywho, anybody know the frames between hits of fire breath?

 

[Flayl]

The necro bump of the DI thread in tactical made me remember something I wanted to check long before I had access to frame advance on NTSC Brawl: Which is better for horizontal momentum cancelling, FAir+Double Jump or Airdodge+Double Jump

Airdodge is better by one frame. If you have the habit of doing either one, you're good.

 

[B!squick]

Are you sure? I remember surviving way longer with FAir than AD.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You can fastfall during F-air. I'm pretty sure it's fair. The only time airdodge is better is someone with a crappy fastfall (like Lucario!)

 

[Uncle]

You can fastfall during F-air. I'm pretty sure it's fair. The only time airdodge is better is someone with a crappy fastfall (like Lucario!)

lol, I remember you told me that exact same thing about Lucario at a tourney, PSI.

And yeah, nothing really beats FF Fair for Bowser.

 

[Cassius.]

well if the guy tested it

...

 

[Flayl]

The only reason you should ever fastfall Fair for horizontal recovery is if you're getting knocked into the corner of the blastzone, otherwise it's incredibly stupid.

Not to mention that it doesn't influence hortizontal momentum. I tested it.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Which kind of horizontal attack are we talking about here? Things with a 361 degree (which send to the corner) or things like a Fox D-smash (in which FF anything is ********).

 

[Flayl]

Bowser needs space to maneuver around opponent's edgeguarding. FAir lasts a considerable amount of time. Fastfalling the duration of Fair cuts down on time you can use to stall your recovery.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

what is that a response to? >.>
If you're hit by a purely horizontal move, it makes total sense to just try to get that recovery in, lol.

 

[Flayl]

I don't know where to put this, but Jab1 -> Dash grab is a true combo on Jigglypuff. The problem is you can't buffer the dash grab, so practice timing it.

I found this because ever since that Jab -> FSmash thing I was wondering if different fall speeds affected how long characters stayed in the air when they got popped up by Jab. Turns out it does.

I fully agree with Bowser being +2 against Jiggs now lol

edit: This also means grabbing Fox and the likes out of a Jab is a waste of time if your opponent knows the matchup (I feel slightly better about myself now about a certain matchup). OverB still works if your opponent is close enough.

edit2: Character height also plays a part, Samus is "safe"

 

[KingKong_ad]

Flayl how many frames do we have to do this on jiggz. Is it easy or really hard timing ??

If its easy enough, jab kills jiggz now at 70... terribly stupid >.>

 

[MrEh]

I have a feeling that it's only a couple. Shouldn't be too hard though, as long as the knockback on Bowser's jab is consistent.

2 frame links aren't too bad.

 

[Flayl]

It depends on how close Jigglypuff is to Bowser:

- Close: 2 frames
- Mid: 3 frames (yes it's weird)
- Far: Frame-perfect

 

[B!squick]

Someone made a topic a while back that listed the frame advantage of every Jab for every hit box of every character. I remember Bowser has a 9 frame advantage on the closest one to Bowser and Jiggs being Jiggs that probably isn't too hard to get.

 

[Flayl]

If you had paid attention you'd know that's not true for everybody. It depends on the weight and height of the character.

 

[B!squick]

Oh I'm sorry, you're right. Shockingly I didn't remember that from a thread I looked at ALMOST TWO YEARS AGO.

 

[Cassius.]

yeah that was a bit much. I don't think anyone has the capacity to look at posts from a galaxy far away...lol

anyway we just **** on jigglypuff more. :D

 

[Flayl]

Com on guys...

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12691217&postcount=59

Was this ****ing 2 years ago? -.-

 

[rPSIvysaur]

even I saw that

 

[Cassius.]

yeah but no one cares about you

and my bad flayl lol. technically it's not within my scrolling range

-_-

 

[Flayl]

It's not something new but it occured to me that Bowser's jab canceling and pummeling have the same timing. Cool how the only two things that can't be buffered have the same timing.

 

[B!squick]

I thought you were talking about the thread I was referring to. I somehow didn't remember that you mentioned it just last page. I would like to point out then that the thread mentions fall speed being a factor, too... But not height.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Sorry for the necropost.
I'd like more accurate information reguarding the tilts' startup.

For example, the U-Tilt says it has 8-13 frames startup, and it's really hard to tell.

 

[Z'zgashi]

8 on the front, 13 on the back.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I'm gonna start using the U-Tilt gais.

 

[Zigsta]

It's really handy. I like to get surprise KOs on dairing GWs with it.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

So I noticed after that, that...

Snake: 6 frames
DDD: 7 frames
Bowser: 8 frames

Bowser's is the fourth strongest U-Tilt in the gaem, but Snake and DDD outclass his'. :E

 

[Flayl]

Trust me we've noticed.

 

[Uncle]

I've lost count of how many times I've KO'd Peaches with U-tilt.

If Bowser's U-tilt was any more awesome, it would be Snake's.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Who have you played that plays Peach, Uncle? o-o

 

[Uncle]

Who have you played that plays Peach, Uncle? o-o

CJ (From Charlotte, not UNCC)
****** (from FL, yes, it gets censored on here, lol. He entered the last big ECU tourney.)
HeroChima (from GA)
Willie (a Peach who used to play with us back at UNCC, entered a few tourneys a few years ago)
Stingers' Peach (back when he goofed around with her)

Lots of opportunites to u-tilt.

Note: MUST STOP ACCIDENTIALLY HITTING EDIT ON OTHER PEOPLES' POSTS