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Bowser Frame Data (In-depth and Accurate)

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA
I've tested a lot of stuff...if you want me to check out anything else Bowser related, just let me know.

Jab:
1st jab total: 20
1st jab hits on frame 6
1st jab shield hit lag: 7
1st jab shield stun: 7
1st jab advantage: -14
2nd jab hits as early as frame 19 (counting frame 1 as first frame of 1st jab)
Linking to 2nd jab advantage: -12 (opponent has 12 frames b/t shield stun and 2nd jab hit box)
Both jabs total: 36 minimum (assuming fastest possible 2nd jab)
2nd jab shield hit lag: 7
2nd jab shield stun: 7
2nd jab advantage: -17

Jab canceled jabs:
Repeated 1st jab (jab canceled) hits on frame 27 (counting frame 1 as first frame of 1st jab)
Linking to repeated 1st jab advantage: -20 (opponent has 20 frames b/t shield stun and next jab hit box)

Dash Attack:
Total: 55
First hits on frame 10
Shield hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 12
Advantage: -42

Dtilt:
Total: 45
1st swipe first hits on frame 10 – 11 at least
1st swipe shield hit lag: 10
1st swipe shield stun: 15
1st swipe advantage (to end of Dtilt): -30
2nd swipe first hits on frame 20
Linking to 2nd swipe advantage: -4 (opponent has 4 frames b/t shield stun and 2nd swipe hit box)
2nd swipe shield hit lag: 9
2nd swipe shield stun: 12
2nd swipe advantage (to end of Dtilt): -22

Ftilt:
Total: 37
First hits on frame 10
Shield hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 12
Advantage: -24

Utilt:
Total: 50
First hits on frame 8 – 13 at least
Shield hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 13
Advantage: -35 (assuming it hits the shield on frame 11 which is typical)

Dsmash:
Total: 66
First hits on frame 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32
Shield hit lag (last hit): 8
Shield stun (last hit): 11
Advantage (last hit): -31

Fsmash:
Total: 65
1st hit first hits on frame 26
1st hit shield hit lag: 9
1st hit shield stun: 11
1st hit only advantage: -37
Linking to 2nd hit advantage: +1
2nd hit first hits on frame 28
2nd hit shield hit lag: 17
2nd hit shield stun: 22
2nd hit advantage: -32

Usmash:
Total: 51
1st hit first hits on frame 16
1st hit shield hit lag: 13
1st hit shield stun: 20
1st hit only advantage: -28
Linking to 2nd hit advantage (probably never happens): -7
2nd hit first hits on frame 31
2nd hit shield hit lag: 9
2nd hit shield stun: 13
2nd hit advantage: -16

Nair:
Total: 47
First hits on frame 8
Landing lag: 24
Shield hit lag: 10
Shield stun: 14
Advantage: -20

Dair:
Total: 77
First hits on frame 14
Landing lag: 40
Shield hit lag: 4 (landing hit box)
Shield stun: 5 (landing hit box)
Advantage: -39

Fair:
Total: 41
First hits on frame 8 – 10 at least
Landing lag: 24 (auto cancel after frame 36 at latest)
Shield hit lag: 10
Shield stun: 14
Advantage: -20

Bair:
Total: 49
First hits on frame 9
Landing lag: 35
Shield hit lag: 11
Shield stun: 15
Advantage: -31

Uair:
Total: 44
First hits on frame 16 – 19 at least
Landing lag: 28
Shield hit lag: 11
Shield stun: 17
Advantage: -22

Neutral-B:
First hits on frame 23

Grounded Side-B:
Total: 37
First grabs on frame 8

Aerial Side-B:
Total: 43
First grabs on frame 17
Landing lag: 3 (from short hop) or 7 (from higher fall)

Up-B:
First hits on frame 6 (can hit on frame 6 if timed perfectly from shield)
Invincible frames 1 – 5 (no vulnerability if timed perfectly from shield)

Grounded Down-B:
Total (on flat ground): 103
First hits on frame 11

Aerial Down-B:
First hits on frame 32

Standing Grab:
Total: 39
First grabs on frame 9 – 10

Dash Grab:
Total: 49
First grabs on frame 10

Pivot Grab:
Total: 39
First grabs on frame 9

Spot Dodge:
Total: 32
Invincible frames 3 – 24

Roll Backward:
Total: 39
Invincible frames 5 – 20

Roll Forward:
Total: 39
Invincible frames 5 – 22

Air Dodge:
Total: 49
Invincible frames 4 – 31

Jump airborne on frame 9
Short hop airborne for 36 frames
Short hop landing lag: 2
Higher fall landing lag: 6
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
Bowser Pummel Data

The best timing for Bowser's pummel is 128 beats per minute.
Click the link above to practice your timing.

Here are pictures, frame by frame of Bowser's pummel.


This is Bowser when he's not pummeling. If you mash/time your pummel wrong, you will get a few frames of this.



This is Bowser winding up for the headbutt. AFAIK, your opponent can jump break out during these frames.


Bowser's pummel hits on frame 9, and the hitstun lasts until (and including) frame 20. If your opponent breaks free during these frames, he will be ground released.



The total number of animation frames for 1 pummel is 27. The last frame pictured is a pummel that I managed to mash with best possible timing. Your opponent can jump release during these frames.


Notice the small difference between the last frame of the pummel animation and the idle pose.

To wrap it up:
Hitbox comes out frame 9
"Hitstun" lasts frame 9 - 27/28
19 frames during which your opponent will ground release
8 frames during which your opponent can jump release
Fresh pummel deals 3.15% damage
Stale pummel deals 1.38% damage
The best pummel input per minute is (60*60) \ 28 = 128

Note: \ stands for integer division.
 

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA
Great work, it's appreciated. I'll PM a mod.

edit: aerial SideB does not have landing lag... If it did ISJ wouldn't be possible.
No, it has one more frame of landing lag than the standard lag (from no aerial attack).

It actually does something really strange...the aerial Side-B sort of changes to grounded Side-B for one frame (I call this frame 1 of landing lag) and then you have your standard 2 or 6 frames of lag for landing on the ground (dependent on the height of the fall).

Of course, if you double jump, you will not land and thus have no landing lag, but if you land during a Side-B, you cannot shield for 3 or 7 frames (dependent on the height of the fall).
all grabs are active 2 frames, so bowsers grab hits on frame 8-9
It would have to be frames 9-10 since his grab box doesn't appear until frame 9. I'll double check it and edit the information when I have confirmation.
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
Fall from a decent distance, SideB when you're reaching the ground and mash A. Tell me how long before the animation for the jab starts.
 

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA
Fall from a decent distance, SideB when you're reaching the ground and mash A. Tell me how long before the animation for the jab starts.
I just tested this...from short hop height, there are 3 frames of landing lag before the jab starts. From higher, there are 7 frames of lag before the jab starts.
 

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA
Does the Dair have shield stun other than the final hit?
Yes, but it's kind of difficult to determine since it has multiple hit boxes. If you really want to know the exact details, I'll check it out. However, I didn't really think anyone would be interested in Dair since it's a garbage move.
 

Hixxy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
102
Location
Florida
It's useful for shield pressure on larger characters, particularly Donkey Kong since his shield is both large and relatively weak.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
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Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
Up-B:
First hits on frame 6 (can hit on frame 6 if timed perfectly from shield)
Invincible frames 1 – 5 (no vulnerability if timed perfectly from shield.
There isn't a jump frame to cancel the shield like in Melee? If you can up-B directly out of the shield itself instead of up-Bing out of the jump startup animation, it seems weird that you'd even need to jump at all. Maybe it handles the jump input first or something which allows the up-b to work on that frame?
 

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA
There isn't a jump frame to cancel the shield like in Melee? If you can up-B directly out of the shield itself instead of up-Bing out of the jump startup animation, it seems weird that you'd even need to jump at all. Maybe it handles the jump input first or something which allows the up-b to work on that frame?
No jumping frame before the Up-B is definitely possible, but I think you have to actually input the jump and Up-B on the exact same frame. If you hold up on the control stick, shield, pause, hold Y and B (while continuing to hold control stick up and shield), unpause, you get the perfect Up-B out of shield. You can have ZSS hold A during the pause to test that it is in fact invulnerable on frame 1 (she has a 1 frame jab).

I believe you are correct that the game handles the jump input first if jump and Up-B are input on the same frame. It then just skips the jumping animation all together since the Up-B cancels it before it ever begins really. Interesting...
 

$haDy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
142
I think the dair is quite a useful move.Generally your opponent thinks if you are to attack from above it will be down b but dair always catches them by suprise.It also useful situationaly alot aswell.
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
4,871
If you short hop an aerial, and ff land, does it still use the SH frames? I though FF'ing added frames...
 

Alopex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
909
Errm, I know this is character specific, but I'm interested in knowing the MINIMUM amount of frames required by Bowser to go from end of grab break animation to the regrab (talking about chain grab releasing, of course).

In other words, the minimum amount of frames it takes to move that little inch and then regrab the released character. Anyone know where I can find this/does someone here know it?
 

B!squick

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,629
Location
The Sunny South
Well, the list says that it grabs on frame 10, so I would assume that a regrab would take just as much time to pull off, plus however long it takes the person to actually perform the grab. So frame perfect would be as little as 10 and upwards of whatever.
 

Cyndi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
120
I've tested a lot of stuff...if you want me to check out anything else Bowser related, just let me know.
This is awesomely thorough. I'll keep this in mind when I practice.
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
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NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
I never really thought much about the pummel tbh, lol. I just remembered it's a pretty important factor, since reading this thread. You could keep up on the research, this could help a bit with the grab release information.

I have a question about people escaping the grab though, as the %'s go up, the amount of time it takes for you to get out of a grab increases, right? I don't really understand how that works either, lol
 

My Cat Owns

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
188
Location
North Carolina
This is copied from the sheik boards ftilt lock guide (when the ftilt will go stale in her lock: Not sure if it applies the same way to bowsers pummel but its the best I can do):::

[%]: [Attacks til fresh]
1.05: Fresh or unused attack
0.90: No longer fresh, requires 2 attacks to be used and connect back to back
0.81: 3 attacks
0.73: 4 attacks
0.66: 5 attacks
0.60: 6 attacks
0.55: 7 attacks
0.51: 8 attacks
0.51: 9 attacks
0.48: 10 attacks
0.46: 11 attacks
Make of it what you want :D
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
Bowser's grab range

Okay, here's how I tested it: Made a custom stage with 6 blocks, picked a fairly straight test subject (Samus as opposed to, say, Wolf) and made her roll to the edge of the stage with her back turned to the ledge so she doesn't go into teeter animation. For each grab type I also have pics for barely missing so you can see the accuracy. The first picture is the frame where I pressed grab, the second is the end result.

Standing grab range:


Degree of accuracy:


Dash grab range:


Degree of accuracy:


Pivot grab range:


Degree of accuracy:
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
It's not really about the pummel so seperated posts seemed like a good idea.
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
I think the grab range post could merge with the general bowser guide, the one that explains the moveset. Pummel would go with the frame data thread.

This is after a few days so my work is easier to find in case I need to change something.
 

Bowser King

Have It Your Way
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,737
Location
Ontario, Canada
I think the grab range post could merge with the general bowser guide, the one that explains the moveset. Pummel would go with the frame data thread.

This is after a few days so my work is easier to find in case I need to change something.

Alright, PM me when your done.

So is it fine with you if I use the range data in the guide (with credit of course)?
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
It does. You have to input the dash grab eariler than the pivot, that's why Bowser is further away in the first pic. In the second you can see pivot grab has the range advantage.
 
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