Boost Grabbing - Do it.

[RATED]

wow snake boards are very active! thanks a lot I am practicing that , I never post here on snake boards I read and stuff but I never post , I am a DDD mainer and my 2ndarie is snake. and I want to get the chain grab release to falco.

thanks to both. have a nice day

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Thanks for catching that, might have been smart of me to say that.

I only caught it because I have my own problems with RBPGing. I use A instead of c-stick all the time and that messes me up too much.

Questions: What is a good feature to look for when timing the air grab release? I either time the ending froms of snake either too early and end up doing somthing other than a buffer dash animation or time it too late so I cannot get the regrab at the end of the air release.

 

[SuSa]

I only caught it because I have my own problems with RBPGing. I use A instead of c-stick all the time and that messes me up too much.

Questions: What is a good feature to look for when timing the air grab release? I either time the ending froms of snake either too early and end up doing somthing other than a buffer dash animation or time it too late so I cannot get the regrab at the end of the air release.

Try to buffer a dash right before Snake returns to his 'neutral stance', if that doesn't work you should actually be fine (at least, against Falco) if you dash immediatly when you see him return to neutral stance.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Try to buffer a dash right before Snake returns to his 'neutral stance', if that doesn't work you should actually be fine (at least, against Falco) if you dash immediatly when you see him return to neutral stance.

Alright, I'll try and try again xD

 

[indianunit]

I think I'm starting to get it.

Thing is, you have to press the z button even faster than if you were trying to do a dacus. In other words the timing between the cstick and the z button is faster for the grab than the dacus.

Also with falco, you have to run up just a bit before you do the dash attack canceled grab.

In any case I'm almost there to perfecting it.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Alright, I'm inclined to step in here and say something.

Havokk, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Yes, contributing to the forums are fine. You know what's even better? Tournament results. Candy is an experienced tournament player, easily a top Snake player in the world. He places consistently high in MD/VA, the best smash region in the world.

He beats top players like Forte and Chillindude. He is an elite, most likely even better than me. I suggest you catch up on who's who in this community, instead of posting things about "boost grab" or random tidbits that don't matter that much. Your work is appreciated, but when you start arguing with the nation's best players, and then ask them what they've done for the community...Something's gotta change.

 

[magikguy]

somebody got told .

 

[SuSa]

Alright, I'm inclined to step in here and say something.

Havokk, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Yes, contributing to the forums are fine. You know what's even better? Tournament results. Candy is an experienced tournament player, easily a top Snake player in the world. He places consistently high in MD/VA, the best smash region in the world.

He beats top players like Forte and Chillindude. He is an elite, most likely even better than me. I suggest you catch up on who's who in this community, instead of posting things about "boost grab" or random tidbits that don't matter that much. Your work is appreciated, but when you start arguing with the nation's best players, and then ask them what they've done for the community...Something's gotta change.

If they are the best in the nation, I would like to inquire why they are inclined against helping the community, I've been MIA in the Snake BRoom, but I'm unsure if I've seen things from him in there either. So 'so the masses/noobs don't pester him' isn't a valid excuse in the BRoom IMHO.

He seems also to be one to quickly change opinion, not just one month ago was he saying the comment "good" about the grab release chaingrab on Falco. I even linked to his post saying such, in an advice thread. One month to so drasticly change an opinion from "good" to "near worthless"?

EDIT:

________________
He also failed to counter-argue against two points I made.

1. You can refresh your moveset

2. You can start a dthrow tech-chase whenever you want after doing this, so why not do it to near the edge, then start the tech chase? That's extra damage, and freshens your moveset.

Counterague those two as being worthless or worse then a dthrow tech chase, and I'll go down on my knees and submit.

 

[JesiahTEG]

He's not inclined against helping the community, wtf? I re read the thread, he just said it wasn't that useful, then you started talking about how people think your style is "efficient but unique" or whatever. You just mistook what he said. If he doesn't think it's that useful, that's all there is to it.

About him changing his mind, he explained that he tested it. That's what happens when you test things. Go ahead and use this if you want to, but don't expect other people to, especially top players who have already tested it.

 

[SuSa]

If he can answer me these:

"1. You can refresh your moveset

2. You can start a dthrow tech-chase whenever you want after doing this, so why not do it to near the edge, then start the tech chase? That's extra damage, and freshens your moveset."

1. Guaranteed damage, even if it's just 1 pummel a grab (because you don't want to risk more, for example), thats 1-2% per pummel, and about 4-5 grabs until you go from one edge of the stage, to another. That's 4-10% guaranteed, assuming you're doing the -least amount possible- . Let's say you manage to get 3-4 pummels in, each at 1-2%. That's anywhere from 13-20% guaranteed. Still relatively low, but if you're willing to trade 16% with a grenade, why aren't you willing to do this?

2. It freshens other moves. Ftilt does 21% fresh, and less when staled obviously. If you do this CG, you freshening your move. A fresh Ftilt is obviously a better killing move then when its stale, and we all know. -Ftilt can actually kill-, and even if you don't use it to kill, isn't 21% better then lets say 17% (a random guess)? It also freshens your other moves, what if you used utilt 3-4 times recently and it didn't kill? You can do this and freshen your utilt, making it that more deadly. It freshens your dthrow, SO GUESS WHAT. Here's where 3 comes in

3. Since you're so godlike at techchasing. How about CG'ing to the near ends, then starting your dthrow tech-chase? They will eventually be forced to go back towards the center of the stage, because the edge is a horrible spot to stay, especially during a tech-chase. What does this allow? CG > Dthrow tech chase > CG AGAIN. That's 20+20% = 40% + 11% from techchase = 51%, and the CG's ARE GUARANTEED, something that a tech-chase isn't, otherwise a techchase wouldn't normally end after 3-4 dthrows on average. Hell, you can even mix it up more.

CG (20%) > Dthrow (11%) > Ftilt (21%) = 52%
CG (5%) > Dthrow (11%) > Ftilt (21%) = 37%

Whether its 5%, 20%, or any %, it's still extra damage.

I'll submit. But the fact that it's a guaranteed x amount of damage, then you can -move into- what he is saying is "the better alternative", how is it not useful? Give me some purpose as to why you -wouldn't- want to freshen up your ftilt, or your grenades, or w/e happens to be stale, still be able to do your precious dthrow techchase, and only GAIN from this. Hell, just from my above 3 reasons I see a reason to do and learn this. I normally ban Japes against Falco, and I have this to utilize if he takes me to Final Destinaion (just an example, it -can- happen).

So he either tested it, and came to conclusions other than my own and deemed it useless, or he's ignoring the calculations that come from it and the fact it leads to dthrow obviously which is what he is stating 'you should do instead'.

Yah, he may be the best in the nation, but ignoring what I've given to him, which I can't see a negative reason for the above reasons, is being ignorant or close minded.

I admit I mistook a few things he said, and overreacted in one instance, but my points still stand and he hasn't given me any evidence against them.

 

[SuSa]

Bump, read my textwall in my above post.

If anyone can come up with a good argument against it, please. Do let me know. I'd love to hear your motives behind leaving your moves stale, doing less damage overall, and doing a "better alternative" that you can go into from this.

Please, do tell....

@Magikgu
Somebody got retold.

Left the Snake BRoom, I'm obviously not experienced enough for it. Arguing against one of the best, if not the best Snake, in the nation. With what must be a really flawed argument to begin with, and my facts must be screwy or something.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I agree with everything havokk said about the uses of this and what you can do with it a good option to have available to you instead of constant tech chasing.

Only counter arguement I have is that it works only on a select people of the cast, any platforms ruin the grab release (that alone leaves this open to only FD, pictochat, or smashville best practical usage), you are constantly dashing forward which has the chance of tripping, although not likely (rarely seems to happen). More command inputs for more possiblilty to mess up and not get a high reward of only like what you said a few pummels per grab.

So for me this seems like an option that is best used for intermediate-high% where you can get more pummels in a row and more damage when you get the chance to grab. Yes, you are more likely to want to use dthrow and tech chase the person at lower percentages.

But this would be a useful tool in actually placing an opponent around the stage into certain areas such as move people into one of your mines, grenades or C4, if one is in place (C4 on smashville's platform and you got a grab, air release CG till they are onto it and kaboom). Or just move them close enough to one that you can just dthrow and tech chase from there for some more damage, you get lucky, you might be able to regrab them for another air release CG back to the ledge again dthrow and further tech chase.

I know one thing. Air release CG and dthrow techchasing combintion will be annoying as heck to anyone that gets caught in it, and would probably make smashville, FD and Pictochat more snake friendly.

Of course, assuming, you even get the grab in the first place.

 

[Psychoace]

Hey this would probably be more useful then pivot grabbing a tornado right?

 

[hdrevolution123]

lol this is what I sometimes do when I fail to perform a mortar slide. It's cool though. I could use it when enemies are approaching

 

[Nic64]

from what I could tell most of this argument was more about the dash attack vs dthrow than the actual CG, I think candy only mentioned the chain grab in the first post he made in this topic...I'd agree that it's not totally earth shattering, but then almost nothing is, you might get an extra 5-10% out of the CG before you go for the dthrow, but hell, why not? the devil is in the details, you realize the big things like snake having a 21% ftilt and apparently has an invisible sword attached to his leg very early on, once you figure out that basic stuff then things like this become useful because every little advantage counts.

as for the dthrow and dash attack...I have to agree with candy, the dash attack is 1% less damage and is far less likely to lead to anything, given that the regrab is guaranteed, I wouldn't use the dash attack unless the opponent was somehow at an extremely high percent where it could KO them, very situational and not the preferred option. also worth noting that because you can go to the other end of the stage with the CG you might get lucky with the spacing and they might have little roll away room, cutting their tech chase options even further. the move refreshing is also good because snakes ftilt is actually an ok kill attack on the rare occasion that it is actually fresh at high %, which like never happens so a lot of snake players may not be mindful of that...

 

[Panix]

Didn't know pivot grabbing was hard, I wish I could upload a video, I have a cool match with some falco and snake pivoting their grab's (snakes is mostly boosting)

 

[SuSa]

It's not just the extra %, it's freshening all of your other moves. That's one of the major points.

People 'spam' non-killing moves (eg; Pit's arrows. Read what Undr said about 'YOU MUST SPAM!') because it FRESHENS OTHER MOVES, including KILL MOVES.

I will try to do testing to see who else we can CG, then try to estimate a break distance and make a chart displaying my data.

Who knows, we may be able to really **** someone up on FD.

(Link, Bowser (But not DK? or was it the other way around...?), Fox. Falco - Bolded is the guarenteed, the other 3 are ones I tested but I'm not 100% sure about it, it seemed they were in that weird air release animation until they hit the ground, then got that small lag landing thing, and you could grab them just like Falco so...

Needs more testing... I'm almost certain it doesn't work on Fox because he breaks too close and would be able to jab/utilt or something to get out of it.

I'm almost certain it works on Link, and he goes FAR in his breakout, its sorta funny. If you air grab release him at the edge, you can gimp him with a weak hit bair easily... its hilarious.

and blah blah, I tested only 2 rows and Fox.... so <.< I don't have many names


@panix

I have a lot of practice with the boost pivot grab, and it took me forever to 'master' it. Knowing that, I made an assumption it would be hard for others as well, just based off of my experience. My friend who mains Falco is still yet to do it consistantly either, saying its hard. So <.> gave people a "this may be hard and annoying for you to learn" for the pivot one.


EDIT:

Doesn't work on Link, he can jump out of it <.<

 

[iRjOn]

Good stuff Havokk
I'll practice this later...
I'll replace my missing motor slide approach with this.
I haven't posted in Snake boards in a min.
I may not main him any more but by far hes definately my second.
But I love Toon Link too much hes gotta stay my main
<3 toon link <3

 

[SuSa]

Coming from an ex Link main.

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU D: HOW CAN YOU LIKE THAT CAT-CARTOON-BOY?

On topic:

<_> you misspelled my name, and I didn't discover it..... just posted it for the Snake boards.

 

[iRjOn]

Coming from an ex Link main.

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU D: HOW CAN YOU LIKE THAT CAT-CARTOON-BOY?

On topic:

<_> you misspelled my name, and I didn't discover it..... just posted it for the Snake boards.

Toon Link is different from Link
;D

Yea but for bringing it to my attention you get props from me
:]

fixxed your name sorry bout that...

 

[SuSa]

Toon Link is different from Link
;D

Yea but for bringing it to my attention you get props from me
:]

fixxed your name sorry bout that...

I guess you really don't know about the whole "Every Link main who calls himself a Link main despises Toon Link" ordeal.

Thanks for fixing my name, I just happened to notice it and went "BAWWWWWW NOT AGAIN D:"

People can never get my name right

:mewtwo:

 

[iRjOn]

I guess you really don't know about the whole "Every Link main who calls himself a Link main despises Toon Link" ordeal.

Thanks for fixing my name, I just happened to notice it and went "BAWWWWWW NOT AGAIN D:"

People can never get my name right

:mewtwo:

I was just typing fast lol

But yea I know about it.
Its ok that Link sux in brawl.
I use to main him in melee...
But TP Link is fail sauce...

Links should just get over it

*tsk* *tsk* *tsk*
Silly Link
Winnings for Toons
:D

But yea do you think boost grabbing is harder than motor sliding?

 

[SuSa]

It's just as easy, because its the same commands minus the "hold up" part.

Boost Pivot Grabbing is slightly harder (IMO). Can't really explain why.

Toon Link looks like a 9 year old, cat-boy with huge eyes that make me want to poke them, and this floatiness about him that makes me think he's on helium. Something's wrong with that kid.

 

[iRjOn]

Hes just high
:D

This Snake talk makes me wanna main Snake again
XD

The piviot one how would you input that?

 

[SuSa]

Read the OP.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I have my controller config set up with Z as attack, and X to Grab. Can you dash -> Z->X in this example?

 

[SuSa]

Doesn't matter what buttons you press, just the input of commands (what command is being done)

So yes, that should work.

I have X for grab as well.

 

[FrozenFire13]

Well I think I'm doing it right, but the timing is more difficult than originally said. The timing has to be way more precise than the normal Boost smash. Unless I AM doing it wrong, in which case I need to test more. It's too late right now. And I'm easily pissed.

 

[Panix]

This boost grab CG is pretty interesting, because when you let go, you can hit them with a dash attack. so you can go (boost grab pummel repeat about 3-5 times, mortar slide.) that is like 40-55 dmg with a mortar in the air. I have a replay on my wii that ill send to people who are interested in it.

 

[SuSa]

I mentioned the dash attack, wasn't sure about the mortaslide, and either way a dthrow would be 'better' to possibly anyone but me and you.

//ps: This is fun to do to noob Falco's. Release them so they'll just barely miss the edge, then dash attack. Their so focused on trying to run and DI away, that when you hit them, their DI is so horrible it can actually kill them. <_>

:mewtwo:

 

[FrozenFire13]

So do we have a definite list of all the characters Snake can CG?

 

[SuSa]

I haven't been able to test, and I found out level 9 CPU's are to stupid to react until they touch the ground. (I thought they would at least airdodge, but nope)

Our only "for sure" is Falco, and I've tried it on other players (Link so far) and Link can jump out of it.

I'll have to wait to get a partner, or just make a quick list of everyone who can react before touching the ground to narrow down who we need to test, then someone can test those people.

 

[Tucker!]

nice, boost grabbing is way more efficient with him, the range difference is absolutly ridiculous, its almost twice as long as the actual grab range, well good luck hitting him with the dash attack and then doing the boost grab, my pants are getting tight just thinking about it =P it sure does sound sexy

 

[SuSa]

The timing for it is impossible, because to boost grab you have to cancel it before the animation for the dash attack begins.

All well, I tried. =p

 

[3xSwords]

Can he CG MK with this now?

 

[SuSa]

I haven't tested on a human, but if you buffer the dash and grab just right, you can grab him while he's still in air.

My guess: Yes

Real Answer: Hopefully

Will I test this? : How could I have forgotten?


Has to be frame perfect, and nair trades damage.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I don't think he's fast enough.

EDIT: I posted this as Havokk posted. So i guess I was wrong, lol.
EDIT EDIT: I WROTE this as Havokk posted. And then forgot about it and came back and posted it before refreshing the page.

 

[SuSa]

He may be able to jump+dair out of it, me and my partner couldn't get that just right.

He can nair, and if you're FRAME PERFECT (this, sadly is a must) you take the nair damage, but you still grab him. (NOT WORTH IT, at least not to me <_< not unless hes at like 180% for whatever bizarre reason, and you're going to the edge to fthrow him for the kill; rofl)

Unless the MK knows how to get out of it, it works, frame perfectly* only, and it's only worth is probably a suprise regrab once in a bagiliion games.

Frame perfect*

You must buffer the dash, and do the Boost Grab (dash grab won't work) at a certain time, I can't really describe this... but you'll grab MK JUST as he regains his ability to do stuff.

If MK airdodges: He hits floor, and strangely enough... you still grab him O_O

If MK uses fair: You grab him before fair comes out, unless:

a) You don't boost grab, in which you eat 2 hits of an fair into the face, which easily leads to a buffered dash grab or ftilt :/

b) You don't buffer your dash, in which you eat 2 hits of an fair in the face.

If MK uses Uair: It doesn't seem this does anything <.< either that, or my friend repeatingly ****ed it up... strangely enough, I thought this would hit like nair does.

If MK uses Nair: You take the 15%? (I think it is) and you get that wonderful 2-3% from your pummels -_- not worth the trade off if your opponent figures out this...

If your off by anything by like 5 frames (it's pretty ****ed strict, I think its like 3 frames actually, I need to look at my frame data for this) you'll get hit.

The nair is the stronghitbox as well -_- so if you mess up and eat a nair, if its fresh and your at a high %, it will kill you.....

 

[Tero.]

I've tested the air release cg on a few characters:

Fox: Yes

Marth: No
G&W: No
DDD: No
ROB: No
Diddy: No
Lucario: No
Wario: No

So yeah until now Fox was the only character I could regrab before he was able to do somthing, I'm going to test more characters soon.

 

[SuSa]

Test DK and Bowser for me, I forget which it was a yes for. (pretty sure its a yes at least)

Wario it doesn't matter, we have grab release nair's, utilt's, and c4 stickies and better crap on him =p (although how sweet would that be if we had an infinite?)

Also, are you testing on humans? CPU's are ******** and will make you think you had a yes when you really didn't..