BLIZZOBBLING! (New IC Infinite!)

PEEF!

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#1
If we can keep the discussion here and keep the General Chat for more general stuff I think that would be helpful for the development of this technique.

I was wrong:

PEEF said:
They can break out.

It works if they don't press buttons. Ironically I just tried doing this earlier today. It looks cute, the problem is that Blizzard comes out on frame 16, leaving +- 10 free breakout frames, and nobody should have any problem breaking out of that when transferring from getting wobbled.
Magus's response:

Magus said:
Actually you can Tilt->Blizzard without leaving an opening in stun. The timing for a wobble is nowhere near as strict as you're suggesting. With f-tilt you can press A as fast as every 15 frames or as slow as every 22 to wobble (slower is generally better since you need that pace to start an instawobble so Nana is out of grab lag on the 2nd press). If you use a slow pace for A inputs (or switch to it at the end) you can do a blizzard after the last headbutt if you press B earlier than normal. If the 2nd to last A -> final A input is 22 apart the final A -> B can be 8-13 apart. If the A->A is 21 apart the A->B can be 9-12, and if A->A is 20 the A->B can be 10-11.


Edit: Come to think of it, I suppose that means...

Headbutt -> F-tilt -> Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> Headbutt -> F-tilt -> ...

and

Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> ...

...would also be infinites when done properly.


Edit2: Yup. Checked it. The headbutt blizzard headbutt blizzard one is pretty sexy. It's significantly harder than wobbling though. You headbutt right as the blizzard disappears then press down-b as close to 10-11 frames afterwards as you can for the easiest timing.[/quote]


Additional info:

If the headbutt was well timed to be as late as possible that might work since there'd be a decent window for pressing B, but even then you'd need to mash extremely fast. Could be more usable in later versions I guess. Learning the timing between the button presses would be the best way though imo. I was doing it by holding down and timing Z->B.
 

Kyu Puff

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#2
There are two b's!

Anyways, I like this more than tilting because it looks cool and doesn't require as many button presses. I'm working on learning the timing and I might use it at a tournament this saturday (unless alukard bans it).
 

smakis

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#6
im at work and cant see the video, in my opinion to me this sound actually easier to do lol

do you need to headbutt during the blizzard? or can you headbutt > blizzard > headbutt etc instead of headbutt > blizzard+headbutt > headbutt? Would make it heaps easier
 

Magus420

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#8
Headbutting once instead of twice during the blizzard before doing the headbutt to blizzard can be easier since if you're even a little slow on one of them it can mean not getting the last headbutt off in time, but I can't see not doing any headbutts during the blizzard helping at all really. Instead of tacking on a free hit then waiting and trying to time it you just sit there waiting for longer and then try to time it.
 

PEEF!

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#9
Well on a non-1.0 version the headbutt takes eternity, so I think its best to just wait.
 

smakis

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#10
cant test it now but im pretty sure two headbutts isnt even possible to do before the blizzard ends

edit: in 1.1/1.2
 

Magus420

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#11
In 1.0 the headbutt hits on 13 and is 24 total (pretty sure every other character in the game has a total grab attack duration of 24 as well). Maybe it was straight up nerfed in later versions or something? I can see the headbutt for whatever reason being made slower because of the blizzard having extra hitlag, but I'd think they'd be slowed down by the same amount on each. If the headbutt is slowed down by an amount more than the blizzard is it sounds like the headbutt itself is slowed down.
 

PEEF!

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#12
Well its weird. When just doing a normal headbutt that isn;t in a blizzard, it is the same speed, so that seems like a point for the blizzard having extra hitlag.

However, when popo headbutts during a nana blizzard, it is slowed down before it actually hits! which seems like a point for it being simply slower...IDK makes no sense.
 

Magus420

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#13
Well, iirc if you hit someone with a projectile on the same frame it is released you go into hitlag while if it hits after that you don't. Sounds like for some reason Popo also gets affected by that quirk even though he's not the one doing the blizzard.
 
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#14
I'm pretty sure that when you're attacking someone, you slow down a bit. Kinda like when Ganon the Cannon d-airs someone and you're just like chilling out there for an eternity.

Also, I'm pressing for the calling of the infinite "Blobbling." I like it better and it sounds like a blob. P: But let's see how much influence I have, lulz.

And holy eff, man; this is hard. I tried, like, over and over, and I was only really able to do grab > headbutt > blizzard > headbutt > blizzard once on 1.2. D:
 

Kyu Puff

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#15
So far I can go from about 0 to between 40 and 60 semi-consistently.

I think the sounds and the blizzard animation are both good for learning how to time the headbutt. After you get it once, listen to the rhythm and keep doing what you did the first time. The headbutt always seems to come later than you expect, so I've been having success looking for the very end of the blizzard animation before the second headbutt (1.0). Timing the blizzard isn't as hard as timing the headbutt.

Edit -- I like both names; they should be interchangeable.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#16
I would be willing to learn this. I never wanted to ever learn how to wobble but this looks fun. this makes what the 7th infi ice climbers can do? wobble f-tilt, d-tilt, jab cancel wobble, billzard wobble, f-throw hand-off, d-throw hand-off and b-throw hand-off(bowser)


WTF ice climbers are mad underrated. I think we really need to throw all this info together into one spitball area of info. We know to much to rememeber. but seriously we need to get all our info together. i'm tried of bringing up 07 metagame thinking it's new.
 

Kyu Puff

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#17
I agree, I've been meaning to suggest that we make a new ICs guide that covers as much information as possible, including a grab section, situational combos, updated match-up strategies, and just theory in general. It could be a community effort because whenever someone decides to do it themselves, it never seems to get finished.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#18
Hey kyu puff we could get fly and wobbles and _____ to each make a post in a new thread about info that way if one quits we still have another ice climbers mains info to update i'd update whenever I could if I could help.

but yeah spitball of info.
 

smakis

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#19
I'm pretty sure that when you're attacking someone, you slow down a bit. Kinda like when Ganon the Cannon d-airs someone and you're just like chilling out there for an eternity.
its called hitlag, which exists in all versions

this however does not explain why pummel is slower (unless the pummel has more hitlag in 1.1/1.2)
 

Ballistics

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#21
remember wobbling was named because wobbles brought it into the tournament light, I think we could come up with a better name for this infinite, but I kind of do like blizzobbling.

How about whiteout?

Although the word is commonly used to describe heavy snow and high winds, this is not a true "whiteout". The real "whiteouts" occur mostly in the Arctic and Antarctic during the spring, when snow is still deep on the ground and there is lots of daylight and surprisingly calm weather and excellent visibility. Whiteouts occur when rays of sunlight are bounced in all directions between bright white clouds, especially a thin layer of overcast, and bright snow or ice. Clean snow and ice reflects nearly 85% of incoming light. Falling snowflakes, suspended fog droplets or ice particles in the air would make conditions even worse. In a true whiteout, neither shadows, nearby objects, landmarks, nor clouds are discernible. All sense of direction, depth perception and even balance may be lost. Land and sky seem to blend, and the horizon disappears into a white nothingness. Whiteouts trick pilots and travelers into believing down is up and far is near.

-wikipedia
 

Kyu Puff

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#22
Informative post... :p

Wobbling kinda refers to every grab infinite imo, and blizzobbling/blobbling are just funny twists on it. It probably won't have a different name for tournament purposes ("wobbling is banned" likely means the blizzard infinite is banned).
 

Fly_Amanita

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#25
I agree, I've been meaning to suggest that we make a new ICs guide that covers as much information as possible, including a grab section, situational combos, updated match-up strategies, and just theory in general. It could be a community effort because whenever someone decides to do it themselves, it never seems to get finished.
I still have that rough draft of a CG guide. It's short and not pretty, but it covers the important things that can be done with both ICs. I don't know why I didn't think about Sopo's grab game earlier, but my Sopo grab game isn't the greatest, so I probably shouldn't be saying anything about that anyways.


On topic, I'm glad this weird infinite exists because hopefully it'll make TOs more aware of the problems presented by bans on poorly defined tactics. Since we have apparently chosen to define this as something distinct from wobbling, the rule "wobbling is banned" itself isn't applicable to this, so TOs who don't want ICs to be doing this stuff will have to reconsider how they word the rule. I still would expect them to come up with something vague and inane, but at least they'd probably be more aware of the problems such a ban raises.

edit: You guys chose a convenient time to suddenly start talking about this... At the very least, the existence of this may help bring awareness to how wobbling is poorly defined.
 

Kyu Puff

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#26
no way, the differences between the infinites with the exception of ftilt and dtilt are way too numerous to generalize them, they should all be named
true

wobbling
blizzobbling/blobbling
jabobbling

the d-tilt version is actually called "the toe trap" or something like that, but it's not an infinite

Edit -- Fly: If you post it we could start revising and adding to it, and it could be the core of the grab section. I like the idea of a big compendium of everything about ICs because like ICG said, all of our information right now is so spread out.

If the tourney I'm going to says "wobbling is banned", do you think it would be safe then to do the blizzard infinite (until the t.o. tells me to stop)?
 

Kyu Puff

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#28
Why have people always said that there's a frame for the other player to escape or something? It's so much easier to time than f-tilt. :/
 

Magus420

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#30
I have no idea where that belief came from but it's definitely false. It shouldn't be easier to time than f-tilt though. F-tilts sync perfectly with headbutts (stale headbutt hits on 13 and adds 2 frames, and stale nana f-tilt hits on 12 and adds 3 frames), while d-tilt does not (hits on 14 and adds 2 frames). The window is 1-2 frames more flexible on f-tilt as well.
 

Wobbles

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#31
These names are all just terrible and I absolutely refuse to write any of them out.

However, at the next tournament this is what I plan to do.

"Wobbling is banned."
"Am I allowed to do ANY tilts during the grab? How many am I limited to?"
"You can do a maximum of... three tilts."
"Okay." *jabobbles.*
"WTF that's banned you're DQ'ed."
"No, this is jabobbling."
"Dude we banned it."
"No, you banned WOBBLING. This is JABOBBLING. There are no tilts. I haven't exceeded the 3 tilt maximum yet."
"It's an infinite it's illegal..."
"JABOBBLING."

Next tournament.

"No Wobbling OR Jabobbling."
"IT'S BLOBBLING TIME."
"Goddammit."
 

Kyu Puff

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#32
I don't know, I learned the infinite with d-tilt until I started reading that it was actually escapable, and it was hard for me to transition to the f-tilt timing. Is the d-tilt timing slower at all?

Ballistics: He grabbed me and did the blizzobble and I lost...

Wobbles: Hahaha, I would try that but I feel like I wouldn't be able to win that argument. I might try blizzobbling/blobbling/the whiteouting on saturday as long as alu doesn't say otherwise.
 

Ballistics

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#34
These names are all just terrible and I absolutely refuse to write any of them out.

However, at the next tournament this is what I plan to do.

"Wobbling is banned."
"Am I allowed to do ANY tilts during the grab? How many am I limited to?"
"You can do a maximum of... three tilts."
"Okay." *jabobbles.*
"WTF that's banned you're DQ'ed."
"No, this is jabobbling."
"Dude we banned it."
"No, you banned WOBBLING. This is JABOBBLING. There are no tilts. I haven't exceeded the 3 tilt maximum yet."
"It's an infinite it's illegal..."
"JABOBBLING."

Next tournament.

"No Wobbling OR Jabobbling."
"IT'S BLOBBLING TIME."
"Goddammit."
LoL please record this when it happens.

I don't know, I learned the infinite with d-tilt until I started reading that it was actually escapable, and it was hard for me to transition to the f-tilt timing. Is the d-tilt timing slower at all?

Ballistics: He grabbed me and did the blizzobble and I lost...

Wobbles: Hahaha, I would try that but I feel like I wouldn't be able to win that argument. I might try blizzobbling/blobbling/the whiteouting on saturday as long as alu doesn't say otherwise.
I dunno kyu i think whiteout sounds more appealing, plus we don't want an association to wobbling in the actual name to make our case.
 

Fly_Amanita

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#35
If I had any say in the matter, these tactics would just have names like "ftilt infinite," "jab-cancel infinite," etc.
"No Wobbling OR Jabobbling."
"IT'S BLOBBLING TIME."
"Goddammit."
And when they ban all of them, you can start interspersing them and give new names to the hybrids. For example, one iteration of the jab-cancel infinite followed by an iteration of the blizzard infinite and so on could be jaboblobbling.
 

Kyu Puff

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#36
f-tilt/blizzard = wobblizzobbling?

Whiteout is just hard to turn into a verb. If we overdo the name thing I feel like they'll just ban "the infinite." But I guess you can use any name you want, as long as we all know what it's referring to (blizzobbling).
 

Wobbles

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#37
Fly: I've always just called "the infinite" or "tilt infinite." Now I'll just be calling them "grab infinites," "the jab infinite" or "blizzard infinite."

I'm boring.
 
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