Blazblue Mafia Extend: Game Over - NYANCAT In Charge!

[Zaixl]

Or he could be doing that because it looks too risky to be Mafia. This isn't a lean, this is wifom.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

unless, DtJ Glyphmoney clarify what you mean by "you literally have to do this"

You are correct to treat this as null and I will, but not right away at least.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

@#HBC| J

Glyphs vote if serious looks logical to me, somewhat. You're disengaging him by switching over to that topic of 'destiny' (which didn't seem to be anything but RVS fodder) out of nowhere and got in the middle of his conversation with rake, or even pressure if you want to call it that.

I will say though that despite me understanding why glyph is annoyed with J's actions I necessarily don't agree with his conclusion. People are going to get into the middle of arguments and I think it's better people their neck out instead of just letting events play out.

Mfw people always ****ing think it's rake posting

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Buddy, if glyph is bsing I'll eat my own my own words and vote him. I am giving him complete benefit of the doubt because targeting J who knows how gambits work and someone who wouldn't fall for it either way is stupid.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Phone posting so expect errors and me nit caring enough to fix them.

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh no I'm 100% serious with this decision. You've got a daykill coming your way where you've got a 50% chance of picking the wrong answer and if you do, you die. If you get it right you're super dandy though and I'll accept that its fate's will that you not die.

Let's hope it's not a flavor question. I'll be screwed and that'll suck to be kicked out of the game so early.

But if this is a gambit, soup is correct. Choosing me is a very poor choice considering my nerves of steel in mafia.

 

[Maven89]

Maveb, is your null read from a lack of commitment or uncertainty? Do you really believe scum would possibly do this?

Yeah, I do think they could or would. It's pretty reasonable to see how this would play out. Unless J dies and turns out to be a huge power role it's probably not going to becomes a big thing, and even if it does Glyph is crafty and could feasibly explain it away. I sure as **** do not think this even slightly be viewed as a town move, he might have just killed someone. At worst it's scum

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh this is 100% null. Especially from Glyph. Especially from who he choose.

Trust me, I'm the crazy S.O.B. that DayVigged his own scum-mate D1 to win a game. (well, came pretty close, **** indies)

 

[Maven89]

I'm going to chose to extrapolate from J's comment and take it to mean he's admitting to being scum with Glyph

 

[#HBC | J]

Holy cow, only like 5 people maybe would even know the game I'm talking about. That makes me sad and also feels more like a history lesson.

DGames used to be crazy intense haha.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You have my guarantee for a second time if I'm wrong I will ensure to measure the lynching rope to best suit his neck personally. Maybe I'm wrong for being so sure about this, who knows. Ill throw in polishing your shoes and wearing a dunce hat all day for you, maven.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm going to chose to extrapolate from J's comment and take it to mean he's admitting to being scum with Glyph

That is a very weird conclusion to come to. Don't know if you are joking or not.

Soup, I wouldn't look at this as so black and white regardless of what happens.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm just leading on what makes sense to me from all perspectives. I know it's all still up in the air but I tend to be a bit stubborn about some things. I don't really want to seem like I'm glyphs spokesperson because my reads aren't completely static.

 

[#HBC | J]

The only one who has been looking bad so far from this experience is Maven.

I don't particularly like the "Both Glyph and J are scum" logic because that doesn't make sense besides trying to paint us both in a negative light from this situation and the logic is unsound.

So until a post saying whatever this question is:

Vote: Maven89

 

[#HBC | J]

Wow it really was a 50/50 shot.

It's literally a coin flip but let's hope the destiny is on my side based on the answer I chose. I picked the answer I did because I'm having a Colorado night and feel that it may be a sign haha.

 

[#HBC | J]

I blocked it! I survive for now!

Screw you Glyph for the heart attack.

 

[Maven89]

I thought the choice of words "I chose to extrapolate" would show it was a joke

 

[Spak]

If you get it right you're super dandy though and I'll accept that its fate's will that you not die.

"Super dandy" as in a cool guy, or "super dandy" as in a town lean because of "fate?" I have a problem with the second one because I don't know who "fate" wants to win, nor do I trust it with the future of Blazblue.

 

[mallorean_thug]

We tend to be rpugh in players, and may let a lot of stuff slide you find scummy because we know its just how a player is/thats the way we play

Yeah, I'm seeing this already with the conversation around the possible attempted dayvig in the last page.

So here's my opinion on dayvigs:

In the early part of the game, dayvigs should be a town resource, regardless of the alignment of the player with the power. This is because:

1. Town can collectively direct dayvigs
2. Town gets to react to dayvigs before the scumteam
3. Town can punish players that use their dayvigs in a manner that contradicts 1.

So, given that dayvigs are a town resource, how does town want to use them?

Well, town wants:
A. To only kill prospective mislynches.
B. To kill them in a way that gives just as much co-alignment and votal analysis info as a real lynch
C. To kill them early enough that they can apply the information gained from B and the flip to inform that Day's actual lynch.

From all of that, we can come up with some guidelines for when a dayvig is protown, and then as a group lynch players that use their powers in an anti-town manner. This forces scum with dayvigs to either help town eliminate possible mislyches (they shouldn't do this), effectively claim scum and then argue against the valuation in this post (Shouldn't do this if there's consensus behind it), or not use their dayvigs until endgame or until they're about to be lynched (this is the expected behavior). All of which make this strategy very good at hedging against scum!dayvigs. Its also very good for town!dayvigs because it should both work towards that player's win condition in the best possible way, AND keep scum from trying to spin their dayvig use as scummy because town decided beforehand that it wasn't.

So, when is a dayvig protown? Its protown when its aimed at a player with a large enough wagon to be a possible lynch candidate, about 1/2 to 2/3s of the way through the Day phase. It is also protown if a lynch candidate claims, and then allows town to direct their kill, given that information. Any other usage is scummy because it either gives us less information than we could get in the optimal use case, because it doesn't give us enough time to react to it before Night, or because it helps scum get away with early dayvigs.

Unfortunately, this strategy doesn't work at all if Town doesn't agree to punish players that go rogue. And since I'm new here, and this strategy actively quashes player agency (sometimes argued as "fun") in favor of Playing to Win, I'm not entirely confident that I can get all of you to agree to it. Additionally, we're having this conversation after role pms have been sent out, so what should be an entirely clear mechanics discussion will instead be clouded by doubts and accusations about each other's alignments.

So, if you guys aren't willing to change your meta on the drop of a hat after a long wall of words, I understand. I just wanted to make my position on the matter clear.


As far as the specific instance here, for about the same reasons as above, I fail to see how dayviging J is useful in the slightest /right now/. Its not clear that he's a prospective mislynch, we don't have a wagon on him to evaluate for coalignment, and he doesn't have much of a voting history to evaluate for coalignment. Like, if he did die and flip scum, does that tell us anything? Not yet. Why not push a wagon on him first to get that info?

So, instead of staying in RVS any longer, I'm definitely going to move to kill anybody being scum in broad daylight.

Vote: Glyphmoney

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You're taking the 'highly introspective trying to get into someone's mind' route while most of us usually take these things at face value. I mentioned Ryker and EE from MP2 for a reason, because these type of things actually do happen and people can be this thickheaded.

 

[mallorean_thug]

You're taking the 'highly introspective trying to get into someone's mind' route while most of us usually take these things at face value. I mentioned Ryker and EE from MP2 for a reason, because these type of things actually do happen and people can be this thickheaded.

Not really?

I'm taking the "Town should force all players to act in a manner that is +EV for town and lynch those that refuse" route. If Glyph is being thickheaded, he's doing so in a manner that helps the scumteam win. Therefore, I either want him to start doing protown things, or I want him to die before he can do more proscum things.
What I don't want to let him do is pretend he doesn't know the difference, and use his meta to do blatantly proscum things in broad daylight. If scumteams here win because they can get away with that, I'd be very disapointed.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Well..the shot was blocked, and I don't really think Glyph has another one. If he did, then get back to me about this whole Glyph=!Dayvig scenario because all my posts have been talking about it and I want to see him to do more beyond Dayvig shenanigans much like anyone else.

I also want to see more people post because I am

1. Bored
2. Invested into this game and tired of biting my tongue

I've been wanting to discuss Zaixl because I think him dodging Glyph's question completely in #113 is odd and furthermore I don't see how he contested my read on Glyph yet didn't offer anything in return besides 'it's null/wifom.' He also backed down after I said that we shouldn't be doing that, which doesn't sit right with me further.

I just realized why I hate Dayvig scenarios because now the game is completely centered on this until something more interesting pops up. Damnit.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Oh yeah, I think you're a bit of a loon right now mallo. Not sure what kind of loon quite yet but I've never see someone dig so deeply into something that doesn't even have a solid explanation in the first place. and instead somehow skipped the hypothesis part in your crackpot science theory on why Glyph would do X instead of Y based on events not determined in this game. Some people in this world might call it reaching.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

The only one who has been looking bad so far from this experience is Maven.

I don't particularly like the "Both Glyph and J are scum" logic because that doesn't make sense besides trying to paint us both in a negative light from this situation and the logic is unsound.

So until a post saying whatever this question is:

Vote: Maven89

Does this change now rhat he's clarified it was a joks (i was actually leaning town on maven up till that post)

I blocked it! I survive for now!

Screw you Glyph for the heart attack.

can you or glyph clarify about what just went down ans how it affects your read on each other?

 

[Maven89]

Mallorean you shouldn't take us not voting to mean we're ignoring it, personally I'm just waiting for Glyph to explain himself and answer my question before really talking about it

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Greetings nerds. Been a while.

We realized we're actually more like Stark and Lillynette then vegeta and Goku, I( Rake) am Lilynette. Also has it been a while ?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

1.) What soup said about DGames is 100% true. Everyone is very reliant on meta here and it's a common problem amongst players.
.

except my meta is always right, like when I asked Orbo/dietz why they werent' hating on you with meta from 3 years ago and it held true that Dietz was mafia. Good times

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Tfw rake acknowledges he's just a talking gun that insults the enemy.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I've got a smash tournament today so I don't have quite as much time to write this up as I would have liked. Here comes the abridged version.

-Why use the daykill at all?
I wasn't joking when I said I had to. I have two abilities that have to be used before the end of D2 or else I die. I could have opted to save the daykill for tomorrow, but feel the other one is much more consistent for that stage in the game.

-Why target J?
First and foremost, J is a slot I have historically had a very hard time reading. Any quote unquote meta slot generally throws me for a loop, and beyond that J if any of those were to be likely to pull the wool over my eyes it would probably be him. I also found it a little alarming how many of the new players are already buddy buddy with him, which could lead to them just following his directions instead of pushing to find scum on their own.

-BUT WHAT IF J WAS TOWN DUMBASS?
Odds are, he is! That's always town's advantage, having the numbers. But a) my daykill is confirmed to not end the dayphase, and b) J is one of the more connected slots in the game already. I was willing to pull the trigger because even if we did get a J town flip, it kicked us out of the bull**** RVS stage so we can actually play mafia as well as the most valuable thing you can receive in this game, which is modconfirmed information.


You guys kick around this post for a while, I need to go do video games. When I get back there's like 3 players I want to touch on, and hopefully they'll do more things while I'm gone too.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

soup looks town.

 

[SlickWylde]

Interesting developments.

Forgive my ignorance, but I wish for confirmation on whether I understand what just occurred: It seems as though Glyph has some sort of ability to kill another player during the day, and attempted to use that ability on J. But J mentioned that the attack was "blocked". Which means some kind of power thwarted the attack on J.

Is my understanding correct?

I don't know if I fully comprehend Glyph's reasoning, but I don't necessarily see any glaring "pro scum" mentality in his argument. I will agree that J is a very scary player, and people should always be careful when around him.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

J looks town too.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I could literally not agree any more than I do right now, in this moment. I'll touch more on this in a bit.



Is this a read?

Not a read. Just that if he's town I look forwards to playing with him.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

soup looks town.

Why?

Interesting developments.

Forgive my ignorance, but I wish for confirmation on whether I understand what just occurred: It seems as though Glyph has some sort of ability to kill another player during the day, and attempted to use that ability on J. But J mentioned that the attack was "blocked". Which means some kind of power thwarted the attack on J.

Is my understanding correct?

I don't know if I fully comprehend Glyph's reasoning, but I don't necessarily see any glaring "pro scum" mentality in his argument. I will agree that J is a very scary player, and people should always be careful when around him.

glyph used something that would kill j if it went through
There was some mechanic to it where if j made the right choice he didnt die
J made the right choice

Thats how im understanding it

 

[Fandangox]

Does this change now rhat he's clarified it was a joks (i was actually leaning town on maven up till that post)

Maven had all of 3 posts since the game began to his joke post.

What made you lean town on him during that time?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

i am gutsman and it was a mostly gut read

 

[Fandangox]

I've got a smash tournament today so I don't have quite as much time to write this up as I would have liked. Here comes the abridged version.

-Why use the daykill at all?
I wasn't joking when I said I had to. I have two abilities that have to be used before the end of D2 or else I die. I could have opted to save the daykill for tomorrow, but feel the other one is much more consistent for that stage in the game.

Why didn't you wait till later in the day till something different happened? Why right away?

-BUT WHAT IF J WAS TOWN *******?
Odds are, he is! That's always town's advantage, having the numbers. But a) my daykill is confirmed to not end the dayphase, and b) J is one of the more connected slots in the game already. I was willing to pull the trigger because even if we did get a J town flip, it kicked us out of the bull**** RVS stage so we can actually play mafia as well as the most valuable thing you can receive in this game, which is modconfirmed information.

Like Soup said, it might not be necessarily a good thing, as the game will probabbly be focused solely on this front until something happens. Plus the information we would have gotten out of that flip if J was town wouldn't be all that much.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

also i feel like its appropriate to quote that movie for J where the guys like "you chose...wisely"

 

[Fandangox]

i am gutsman and it was a mostly gut read

Doesn't tell me anything.

You said the joke post made you change your mind about your lean, you already had a view on why you thought he might be town. Why?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Why didn't you wait till later in the day till something different happened? Why right away?



Like Soup said, it might not be necessarily a good thing, as the game will probabbly be focused solely on this front until something happens. Plus the information we would have gotten out of that flip if J was town wouldn't be all that much.

how can you say that not knowing what J might have revealed ? Unless you think any isnt greater than some which I would argue against