BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Thread - Continuum Shift II info!

[ph00tbag]

I can't imagine why a game with 9 iterations would be seemingly more balanced than a game with 2 but hey.

I'm not familiar with GG's burst system but from what I gather bursting in GG is useless.

Blue/green bursting is no more or less useful in GG. Gold bursting in GG is hella useful, especially if you're playing Slayer and land a CH 2H afterward.

I just feel like one ultimately gets too few bursts in BB. That's really my only beef.

Oh, I should clarify that I was talking specifically about CS's burst system. CT's burst system is terrible Going into danger mode to get out of one combo is kinda harsh.

While I have to admit that getting 100% tension for hitting someone with a burst offensively is pretty sweet, I like BB's variable burst startups (and gold burst starting combos is SWEET!) I also like that you can save a burst from the previous round and have 2 bursts.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSAdkuaJ8QY


Gold Bursts are cool

You can save a burst, and if you're utterly dominating your opponent, then it works out, but if you and your opponent are evenly matched, two bursts are not enough for three matches. That's my only beef.

 

[DC]

If you don't burst in the first round (you're not supposed to) then you'll have a burst every round until the match is over. EDIT: Unless you burst twice in one round like an idiot.

You want more than one get out of combo free option every round?

 

[ph00tbag]

If you don't burst in the first round (you're not supposed to) then you'll have a burst every round until the match is over. EDIT: Unless you burst twice in one round like an idiot.

You want more than one get out of combo free option every round?

Correction. I want one every round.

I only get one every round in BB if I'm better enough than my opponent.

In GG, even if I'm getting combo'd to hell and back--especially if I'm getting combo'd to hell and back--I get one every round.

 

[DC]

But if you're losing you DO get one every round...?

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

LOL

so basically

If you get caught in a ridiculous combo in round 1, you shouldn't use your option to get out of it?

LMAO

 

[DC]

It's up to you, actually. It's strategy, I know the concept is new to Brawl players.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Yeah, cause I've never played other competitive fighting games before.

Oh wait....

 

[DC]

The mechanic is different and thus the strategy is different.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I'm aware of that. I like the burst system, tbh compared to CT's version.

It's just the way you made it sound, as if the person should just take the devastating combo (if it were to happen), putting little to no emphasis on round 1.

 

[DC]

I'm aware of that. I like the burst system, tbh compared to CT's version.

It's just the way you made it sound, as if the person should just take the devastating combo (if it were to happen), putting little to no emphasis on round 1.

lol but honestly, you SHOULD. The first round is the first round for a reason, you can't win or lose a match in the first round. If your opponent is perfecting you in the first round then you should save your burst for the second round. Now you have two, and are less likely to lose that round.

If it's close and you burst to win the first round, now your opponent has two bursts, you have no bursts, you are less likely to win the second round.

If you burst and lose the round, you get a burst for the second round but no burst for the possible third round.

There is absolutely no reason to burst in the first round.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Wait.... We don't get a burst automatically on every round? That's a massive load of bovine excrement.

 

[DC]

You get a burst the first time you lose a round.

 

[MikeSanti]

So yeah I started to play BBCT Taokaka to learn **** with her so I'm not terribad when I start with CS. Taunt Looping will be mad fun. Hoping to see a scene in FL build up.

 

[nevershootme]

So yeah I started to play BBCT Taokaka to learn **** with her so I'm not terribad when I start with CS. Taunt Looping will be mad fun. Hoping to see a scene in FL build up.

either way the combos are gonna change up alot... but u got BBCS challenge mode to learn all combos

 

[DC]

lol most of the challenge mode combos are terrible

 

[MikeSanti]

either way the combos are gonna change up alot... but u got BBCS challenge mode to learn all combos

I know but not by much in regards to Taokaka. i read up on dustloop and she hasn't changed much at all aside from HP nerf, damage being doubled, and TAUNT EFFIN LOOPS (O YEAAA), and new moves.

 

[DC]

The biggest thing Tao lost is arguably one of the best oki position in the game after every one of her combos.

 

[AfroQT]

DC whats the most recent BB game.... Ive been thinking of starting up BB again as Tao. At ZP we could play a game we BOTH like instead of a game one of us hates.

What you think?

 

[DFEAR]

i want to play valkenhein >_,

 

[DC]

DC whats the most recent BB game.... Ive been thinking of starting up BB again as Tao. At ZP we could play a game we BOTH like instead of a game one of us hates.

What you think?

Continuum Shift comes out on the 27th, I'll be at ZP playing it pretty much every Friday after that lol.

And I'm pretty sure you'll hate CS just like CT. It's still not Guilty Gear and it's still not perfect.

 

[AfroQT]

Continuum Shift comes out on the 27th, I'll be at ZP playing it pretty much every Friday after that lol.

And I'm pretty sure you'll hate CS just like CT. It's still not Guilty Gear and it's still not perfect.

I hated BB because arakune and nu were just ****ing stupid.
As long as theres not a ******** lol okay bro character im good to go.

 

[DC]

Nah not really. Bang can jab you into 5k, all of Litchi's combos leave you in the corner and her with the best oki in the game, Ragna gets 50 meter from his bread and butter and Arakune has 180 hit unblockable combos, but other than that it's pretty legit.

 

[CRASHiC]

For now. Never doubt the Japanese to find something gay.

 

[AfroQT]

Nah not really. Bang can jab you into 5k, all of Litchi's combos leave you in the corner and her with the best oki in the game, Ragna gets 50 meter from his bread and butter and Arakune has 180 hit unblockable combos, but other than that it's pretty legit.

Wow man you are amazing at making me not want to play games.
Either way im gonna start playing BB though.

 

[ph00tbag]

Nah not really. Bang can jab you into 5k, all of Litchi's combos leave you in the corner and her with the best oki in the game, Ragna gets 50 meter from his bread and butter and Arakune has 180 hit unblockable combos, but other than that it's pretty legit.

You forgot that Litchi also does about 4-5k with every combo depending on how the combo starts. (I really think she's the best character in the game.)

I also wouldn't call Arakune's 180 hit combos unblockable. He has a 100% curse combo off air grab that I'm aware of, but from what I've seen all of his fever combos come from mix-ups during D-bugs or bugs during cross-ups. Any of this is blockable, it's just not likely you're going to guess right every time. It works out because Arakune is completely terrible without curse, though. I think he's fine.

 

[DC]

When you're cursed he has three different blockstrings that destroy guard libra. Every 2 seconds or so, they are also overheads.

You either...
1. Try to mash out of the blockstring and get hit.
2. Get hit by the overhead.
3. Get guard crushed.

And when Arakune is not in hitstun you REALLY need to be blocking. The bigger bugs are ridiculous.

 

[ph00tbag]

Bugs do almost no shield damage, and Arakune has two moves that break guard primers. One is an overhead, the other is a low.

What are you talking about?

 

[DC]

He has two overheads that break guard primer, j.2c and 6c. Technically neither one of them are standing overheads because if he gets hit out of it he's airborne, but w/e.

Anyways this is a really poor example of it but here's a scrub doing the basic blockstring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuLrKukK0s
Skip to 4:55 minutes in.

He's doing it really poorly but there are playings that do it perfectly. You can attempt to mash out of it but like I said, bugs have got a massive buff in CS to the point where if you're not blocking while you're curse you're pretty much guaranteed to get hit.

You lose a guard primer every second.

 

[ph00tbag]

He has two overheads that break guard primer, j.2c and 6c. Technically neither one of them are standing overheads because if he gets hit out of it he's airborne, but w/e.

Anyways this is a really poor example of it but here's a scrub doing the basic blockstring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuLrKukK0s
Skip to 4:55 minutes in.

He's doing it really poorly but there are playings that do it perfectly. You can attempt to mash out of it but like I said, bugs have got a massive buff in CS to the point where if you're not blocking while you're curse you're pretty much guaranteed to get hit.

You lose a guard primer every second.

Huh, I had never seen that before.

That is pretty silly. Even so... it's Arakune in fever mode.

 

[DC]

Yes I know, it's pretty much your fault if you get cursed. But remember that he has 100% curse combos.

 

[ph00tbag]

Yes I know, it's pretty much your fault if you get cursed. But remember that he has 100% curse combos.

Pretty much, if you get air-grabbed, it's either burst or lose the round.

This is why I don't like the burst system. The first round can come down to bull**** like that. It happens with Taokaka, too.

 

[BearsAreScary]

An Arakune who goes for guard breaks during a curse loop is an Arakune who has already admitted defeat.

Most Arakune players don't even learn the guard break loops because they're honestly terrible. You have 500000x more chance of mixing/crossing up your opponent, and the correct pokes will safely lead into good combos. There is really no reason whatsoever to go for the guard break (many players may spend a bit of time breaking primers then go for the mixup/crossup to maintain pressure post-curse), but it's honestly not that good. Even on a character with 4 primers, you're spending at least 50-70% of your curse time JUST breaking their primers, after which you get maybe 4k, something Ragna, Litchi, or Bang can easily get with oki and actual pressure options afterwards. If an Arakune is breaking your primers any faster than that, he either has to RC to keep pressure, which burns his precious meter, or he's dropping the loop and mindlessly using 6C/2C/j.C, and you can DP out of it.

Getting curse is way too rare and way too valuable to hedge your bets just trying to guard crush somebody. It's just not worth it. Arakune needs that huge ridiculous damage to balance out the fact that his moves totally suck otherwise. People want to think Arakune is just his old self but curse is a little harder to get and a lot better when he gets it. But so many chracters got such huge buffs (read: j.B doesn't beat anything anymore), that without curse, Arakune is a steaming pile of poop - literally everything he does is risky, and only when a risk succeeds does he get his "ridiculous" flashy curse combos. And when they fail? 4k damage combo, with oki. Arakune has a DP with meter that is ridiculously unsafe and punishable on reaction, and he has a counter assault which is worthless without 100% meter for the combo/curse, and he has a backdash which is usually pretty good, but useless in the corner (where Litchi, Bang, and Ragna will have you constantly).

Yea, Arakune's pretty imba....

This analysis is all based on your opponent having full guard primers when you start curse, of course. If they have 1 going in, maybe breaking their guard is a good plan.

P.S. Air grab is only 100% curse on low-height grab. When grabbed up high, it's 30% from cloud only. This includes the apex of a single, regular jump. I have tested it thoroughy and been very sad about it time and again.

P.P.S. Although this doesn't enter into high-level-play analysis, 100% curse combos are REALLY HARD to do. Nailing a 3-frame kara 2-3 times in one combo is no joke. It's rough.

P.P.P.S An SBO contestant and ridiculous crazy player told me that he thinks Bang is way better than Nu was. Nu at least had weaknesses, if you got in she died. Bang is amazing at everything.

 

[DC]

I was simply proposing one of his options. What I was trying to say, in a nutshell, is that if you get cursed against a good Arakune you're probably going to lose that round.

Idk about Bang being worse than Nu. Bang doesn't have the ability to keep other characters from touching him the entire round. 5a is good but not unbeatable. He has to come to you and thus always has the chance to get hit. Though he'll likely outdamage you when he gets a hit compared to you getting a hit on him.

imo I think Litchi > Bang. Safe oki like Thirteen Orphans or w/e that stick wheel is called is too good.

Btw I've resolved to play a more solid character in CS, right now it's looking like either:
Mu (depending on how she stacks up)
Arakune
or Lambda

Doesn't necessarily have to be the best, but these characters actually have an ability to win tournies, lol. I'm really feeling like it's gonna be Arakune.

And fyi, from my first post about Ara I've only stated that his curse combos are amazing. I don't know why everyone is trying to argue with me like I said he was imba like he was in CT.

 

[AfroQT]

Bang is such a ****** why does he have to be a good character.

 

[BearsAreScary]

Trust me - Bang is much, much better.

Bang's oki is out of this world ridiculous good

He has 2A, which comes out pretty much instantly. There's 5C, which is really hard to block on reaction. Sometimes he can cross up j.C when he feels like messing with you. And JUST when you feel comfortable blocking all these things, he can command grab (and RC for like 2k more damage if he has meter). Also, he's really really hard to punish off of any of his string - you either need to predict a 5C or react to that or a close-up 623B (although he probably won't do it if he's too close). It's seriously ridiculous every time, you never get comfortable with it. And especially in a tournament set, it's **** near impossible not to get hit by that command grab. All he has to do is not use it until he needs that hit confirm to win the set, and boom, presto. It's **** near impossible to react to that command grab when you're busy trying to block all the mixup madness.

Litchi's gimmicks are really good, and her damage output is good, and her oki (with meter only) is good, but she's not Superman. Bang Shishigami can do everything and be everywhere at once. It's hard to explain, but I've played really good Litchis and really good Bangs and, as much as playing vs. Litchi sucks ***, once you get around her stupid good hitboxes and CH EVERYTHING, the matchup at least makes sense and becomes manageable.

Again, text on the internet can only mean so much, so it's hard to prove even if I give good reasoning because there's always counter-theorycraft, but I've seen it with my own two eyes. I've gotten obliterated by fantastic Litchis and Bangs, and the only difference is that now I have an idea of how to beat Litchi, but I'm still stumped vs Bang.

Hope your luck is better than mine, especially if you're picking up the blob. Life is not easy with him.

 

[DC]

lol I've played CS also. Bang's 2 airdashes help tip him over to the broken side. That and 5a j.4c etc etc.

Idk I'd rather just have amazing oki in the corner than insane mixup like Shishigami Bangu~

 

[Zero_Gamer]

So, in nutshell, would you say this is more or less balanced than CT? More or less fun than CT?

 

[DC]

Definitely more balanced that CT. Dunno about more fun, guess it depends on the character you played.

 

[ph00tbag]

Litchi is definitely > Bang. Bang's oki is only better than Litchi without meter. There's a problem with that caveat, though.

Litchi is much, much, much, much more likely to get a solid combo off of a random hit. That combo will likely do 3k or better, and leave Litchi with at least 50% heat. That meter should always be used to set up her oki, and her meter oki is worlds better than Bang's with or without meter (Bang's meter is used to deal unholy amounts of damage in combos). This oki, if successful, can lead to 4k damage or more, plus another 50% heat. A CH j.B or 6B (a cakewalk for a competent Litchi to land) can pretty much mean the round.

Bang has better mix-ups on blockstring, and slightly better damage on combos, but his zoning is very limited, and his oki is no better than his mix-ups. Not to mention his best combos are more difficult to land than Litchi's.

Basically, Litchi has much better zoning, and her zoning is more likely to result in a crippling combo that leaves the opponent locked down in a very strong okizeme situation. Bang's a very good character, but he just doesn't have that.

 

[BearsAreScary]

Litchi is definitely > Bang. Bang's oki is only better than Litchi without meter. There's a problem with that caveat, though.

Litchi is much, much, much, much more likely to get a solid combo off of a random hit. That combo will likely do 3k or better, and leave Litchi with at least 50% heat. That meter should always be used to set up her oki, and her meter oki is worlds better than Bang's with or without meter (Bang's meter is used to deal unholy amounts of damage in combos). This oki, if successful, can lead to 4k damage or more, plus another 50% heat. A CH j.B or 6B (a cakewalk for a competent Litchi to land) can pretty much mean the round.

Bang has better mix-ups on blockstring, and slightly better damage on combos, but his zoning is very limited, and his oki is no better than his mix-ups. Not to mention his best combos are more difficult to land than Litchi's.

Basically, Litchi has much better zoning, and her zoning is more likely to result in a crippling combo that leaves the opponent locked down in a very strong okizeme situation. Bang's a very good character, but he just doesn't have that.

The reason Bang is better is because off of any random hit, a hit which he is nearly 100% guaranteed to get on you, he gets his oki. After 1-2 BnBs, he has meter, so his combos do a nice extra 2k. All well and good. The point is his mixup game is too ridiculous that once you're in the corner, you're not getting out.

Yes, Litchi's corner oki is crazy and she can get ridiculous combos off of counter hits, but the fact is that she never shuts you down before then. Litchi has to get in to hit you, and most Litchi plays either play the counterhit fishing game or will try to poke you/stick toss at you. It is during this time that Litchi has nothing on you. You can zone her, bait pokes, air throw, or pressure her before she can. Bang eliminates this possibility, as he is faster than everyone AND has nails to shut down their retreats/hitconfirm at all times.

You're basically saying "Well, Bang may have insane pressure options and oki, but when Litchi hits it does even more damage!" By that logic, Arakune would be the best character since, if you get hit by say...FC 5C/2C, you eat 100% curse and curse oki, so you always lose. Litchi has a super solid game, and her CHs are annoying as hell, but it is a combination of Bang's speed, move priority, combo damage and stupid good oki that make him the best. This man needs 0 meter to have a near 100% chance of doing at least 2k to you, or worse - 3.5k with oki in the corner. Life sucks versus Bang, it really does.


BTW: CS is way more balanced (yes, even with Bang) and (imo) more fun than CT