Blastin' Until The Cows Come Home - Earthworm Jim crawls back out of the dirt! (EWJ'S SECOND 160-page comic now on Kickstarter!)

[BirthNote]

Smash Ultimate barely got any non-DLC newcomers but that was obviously a deliberate choice to sell more DLC. But every time they pick a "retro" newcomer it's always someone from the NES and never from the SNES because for some reason they've put it in their heads that the NES is the only thing people are nostalgic for.

Ever since Melee the majority of the newcomers have been NES-era (Ice Climbers, Marth/Roy, Pit & Palutena, ROB, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, Megaman, Simon Belmont and now Dragon Quest). Meanwhile what has the SNES/16-bit era got? Very little in comparison. Diddy Kong, Sonic, K. Rool. The Street Fighter guys don't count since SF debuted in 87, technically making it an NES-era game. SNES is the console that always seems to get skipped over and I'm honestly tired of it.

The NES is the most overrated Nintendo console. Looking back on it I think it had an overwhelming amount of lackluster games and only really pulled ahead because of the novelty of its accessories like ROB and the Zapper. Not that I'm saying the third party NES newcomers are from lackluster games, but we don't need any more NES stuff. We have more than what we need from that era.

Ness, Fox, Falco, Yoshi and Captain Falcon are also SNES characters though. Roy debuted in 2002 and Pac-Man, Mario, Donkey Kong, and G&W are Pre-NES because they're Arcade era, and Luigi counts as Pre-NES because his debut (Mario Bros.) released on Arcade just one day before the NES came out. Ryu and Ken debuted in the Arcade during the NES days but didn't get on Nintendo until the SNES and get that distinction too. Since Sonic got included, Daisy and Wario also count as SNES-era since their games released around the same time but on handheld.

Arcade/Pre-NES: Mario, Pac-Man, G&W, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Ryu, Ken
NES: Peach, Bowser, Marth, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, Link, Pit, Zelda, ROB, Mac, Mega Man, Palutena, Simon, Snake, Kirby, Meta Knight, DeDeDe, Samus, Ridley, Piranha Plant, Solo, Arusu
SNES: Ness, Diddy Kong, K. Rool, Yoshi, Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, Sonic*, Wario*, Richter*, Daisy*, Terry*, Pikachu*, Jigglypuff*, Pokemon Trainer*, Charizard*, Mewtwo* Koopalings (7)
N64/Playstation: Ganondorf, Cloud, Banjo & Kazooie, Wolf, Pichu*, Sheik, Young Link
Gamecube: Olimar, Alph, Toon Link, Villager, Bowser Jr., Dark Samus, Ike, Roy*, Lucario*, Lucas*, Zero Suit Samus*, Eight*
Wii: Mii Fighters, Wii Fit Trainer, Shulk, Rosalina, Robin*, Chrom*, Lucina*, Dark Pit*, Bayonetta*
Wii U: Inklings, Isabelle*, Corrin*, Greninja*, Joker*, Incineroar*
Switch: Luminary*

*Didnt debut on that system but debuted in that era.

NES has the most in its category but it's not as lopsided as you're making it seem. There's 7 Arcade characters, 22 NES-era, 18 or 24 SNES characters depending on how you count the Koopalings (I'll go with 24 since I'm counting Alph and Hero Alts); 7 N64, 12 Gamecube, 9 from Wii, 6 for Wii U, and 1 for Switch. Thanks to the Koopalings, SNES can get away with having the most characters from that era.

 

[PsychoJosh]

For clarity's sake I am not talking about the era they debuted in, I am talking about the system they debuted on. I think Terry counts as an arcade character since the console version of the Neo Geo was literally just an arcade board spec'd for the home.

Also, I really wouldn't count Game Boy characters as being SNES characters. Yes, they debuted in the same rough period of time, but not on the same system. For example, Battletoads debuted in 1991, half a year after the launch of the SNES in Japan, but they're still NES characters.

 

[BirthNote]

For clarity's sake I am not talking about the era they debuted in, I am talking about the system they debuted on. I think Terry counts as an arcade character since the console version of the Neo Geo was literally just an arcade board spec'd for the home.

Also, I really wouldn't count Game Boy characters as being SNES characters. Yes, they debuted in the same rough period of time, but not on the same system. For example, Battletoads debuted in 1991, half a year after the launch of the SNES in Japan, but they're still NES characters.

Okay but you're counting Sonic as SNES when he definitely wasn't and lumped Roy in as NES when he debuted during Melee, which is 20 years after NES; also labelling the Street Fighters as NES when they weren't either. That leads me to justify characters like Wario, Cloud, the Pokemon and Joker.

Handheld characters were difficult as I honestly wanted to give them their own category, but handhelds usually aren't seen as the flagship systems whereas the home consoles are. Plus if I make a handheld category, I might as well go all the way and show specific ones like GameBoy, 3DS, PSP, etc. I figured the best compromise would be to add an asterisk to what's basically handheld or competitor debuts so that people know what Console Gen that character's from.

G&W would be a special case since he debuted on his own system way before the NES existed and Luigi made the cut by literally 1 day. And yes I agree with your Battletoads reasoning, since I was going by what home system they started on, if they started on a home system. For example, Ryu and Ken debuted during the NES days BUT on Arcade so that made them Arcade; If they started on handheld then I'd look at the time period and group them by the nearest Console Gen.

I agree NES is overrated; I wasn't born back then, SNES was better and I can't be bothered to play NES at all. However, SNES isn't getting snubbed as badly as you're making it seem. I want more SNES characters (Jim and Dixie especially), but a lot of what you said got me thinking and I started digging to see what's what for myself.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Either way I stand by my case that I don't want any more NES (except maybe Goemon?). I also didn't know Roy wasn't NES, I was talking about his franchise. I don't care about Fire Emblem and was just talking about the origin of the series. It's not to say I don't like NES games but every time someone mentions characters for retro appeal it seems that they always go for NES while the SNES is always overlooked.

Well, in EWJ related news, comic orders have begun to ship out. Although the tier I backed isn't being shipped yet but according to the indiegogo it will start printing very soon.

Also, footage is starting to come out of Intellivision Amico games, starting with Breakout which is apparently bundled in with the system.

 

[BirthNote]

Cool, and it should be noted that SNES isn't getting snubbed that badly. IMO, the best way to push back on any "Retro is only NES and older" mentality is to point out that SNES was 20 years ago and therefore Retro material too. Once one person starts saying it, a conversation will form and people will begin to see it from that angle.

Hopefully the comic goes well. The art is on point.

 

[PsychoJosh]

It's here

IT'S FINALLY HERE!!

JIMMY

HE CAN REALLY SHOOT

JIMMY

FRIEND OF COWS THAT MOO

JIMMY

HE'S THE BLASTINEST WORM ALI-EE-IVE

 

[Cruelcumber]

Earthworm Jim would be pretty amusing to see get into Smash, so I support the character's inclusion thanks to his sheer hilariousness.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Tommy Tallarico posted this to his twitter today. I really like the art style! It's borrowed heavily from the new comic.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also, Doug announced a new print of the comic on Kickstarter, so if you missed out on the first print run you can save the date for when those new orders go live.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tennapel/earthworm-jim-launch-the-cow-comic-and-new-print

 

[Oddball]

I've been thinking about it a little and If they could get the head right, I'd actually be fine with Jim being an enhanced Mii like Cuphead or Sans.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Not a great idea.

The heads on those costumes are just helmets that cover the Mii's head. Jim has a unique headshape that's smaller than a Mii fighter's head so he can't really be a helmet. Plus Sans isn't designed to be very expressive which is why he gets away with having a stiff face.

 

[ErenJager]

Smash needs more Jim.

 

[TheZoologist]

Please put me up as a supporter! Such a cool idea for a newcomer. Would be so surreal to see him in Smash Bros!

 

[Mamboo07]

I support him for Smash! (He's one of my most wanted fighters.)

 

[silenthunder]

I voted for earthworm Jim in the "rate there chances" thread to say thank you for voting in my poll. PsychoJosh

Good luck to you and your dreams!

 

[SSBCandidates]

I want to be added into the Earthworm Jim support please. Is the thread not bumping because of the Doug TenNapel controversy with Ethan Van Scriber?

 

[PsychoJosh]

What? It's not bumping? That's odd.
I don't imagine the mods would anchor a thread for a reason like that, since this isn't a comics board and I doubt they'd be on top of current events in comics.

Anyways, I added all you new guys to the list. Thanks for the support!

edit: I just bumped it with this post, so it seems to be working. I think it just falls quickly due to the activity on other threads.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Admittedly, I've never played Earthworm Jim, so I don't know much about it aside from the creator apparently being a horrible human being (and even then, I don't know much about THAT). However, while I don't necessarily support Jim, I'm not against him either. Really it depends on HOW he's incorporated.

By the way, Matt McMuscles did a Wha Happun? episode on Earthworm Jim 3D, if you guys are interested. Though I can only post a link due to mild language.

https://youtu.be/XpHydE8z1FY

 

[PsychoJosh]

Doug is excellent, he's one of the nicest people I've ever spoken to. The tales of him being a bad person are false and typically perpetuated by legitimately awful people, ironically enough. They just don't like him because of his political views and because he's a Christian.

Although I do think I made him mad at one point by saying Earthworm Jim 3D isn't nearly as bad as everyone says it is. lol

 

[Opossum]

Doug is excellent, he's one of the nicest people I've ever spoken to. The tales of him being a bad person are false and typically perpetuated by legitimately awful people, ironically enough. They just don't like him because of his political views and because he's a Christian.

Although I do think I made him mad at one point by saying Earthworm Jim 3D isn't nearly as bad as everyone says it is. lol

The dude is a hardline transphobe so I'd appreciate it if you didn't lead people to believe he's anything close to a good person.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The dude is a hardline transphobe so I'd appreciate it if you didn't lead people to believe he's anything close to a good person.

Oh. That WOULD explain why I saw people upset he was back for the new game...

 

[PsychoJosh]

The dude is a hardline transphobe so I'd appreciate it if you didn't lead people to believe he's anything close to a good person.

From my interactions with you I've learned to not take anything you say seriously.

Doug is an awesome person. That's all there is to it. Sigh, I really remember why I stopped posting here.

 

[PhantomShab]

Why did you bump this thread solely to **** on a guy for having views you don't agree with? If you have no interest in Earthworm Jim joining Smash or not want to talk about the series then don't bother bumping the thread.

Also Josh sorry in advance for the inevitable warning you'll get.

 

[Opossum]

Why did you bump this thread solely to **** on a guy for having views you don't agree with? If you have no interest in Earthworm Jim joining Smash or not want to talk about the series then don't bother bumping the thread.

Also Josh sorry in advance for the inevitable warning you'll get.

Lmao the person who bumped the thread did it to post a relevant video.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Why did you bump this thread solely to **** on a guy for having views you don't agree with? If you have no interest in Earthworm Jim joining Smash or not want to talk about the series then don't bother bumping the thread.

Also Josh sorry in advance for the inevitable warning you'll get.

Sorry. I didn't mean for the thread to go there. I was just wondering why so many people thought that about Doug. Plus, I did find a relevant video about Earthworm Jim.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Also Josh sorry in advance for the inevitable warning you'll get.

Doesn't even make sense why I would get a "moderate trolling" infraction for defending someone I like, in my own thread, who is relevant to the topic of the thread, from garbage comments made by a known instigator like Opossum. But I guess it is possible to commit "thoughtcrime" here and that's just one of many reasons this forum sucks.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Is there even any proof to be found that Doug is a bad person overall? I am kind of doubting it.

But still, I care more about seeing Earthworm Jim in Smash, personally speaking. I wonder how he'd sound, by the way?

 

[Megadoomer]

Is there even any proof to be found that Doug is a bad person overall? I am kind of doubting it.

But still, I care more about seeing Earthworm Jim in Smash, personally speaking. I wonder how he'd sound, by the way?

He's made homophobic and transphobic comments in the past; they're fairly well-documented, and we should probably leave it at that. In this case, it seems easy enough to separate the creator from the creation, since none of that mindset is present in Earthworm Jim at all, but it's not always that simple.

I'd rather not have this turn into a lengthy discussion/debate, since the Earthworm Jim support thread isn't really a place to open up that can of worms. I just wanted to say that there is proof of this behaviour.

As for how Jim would sound... we already know that, don't we?

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

He's made homophobic and transphobic comments in the past; they're fairly well-documented, and we should probably leave it at that. In this case, it seems easy enough to separate the creator from the creation, since none of that mindset is present in Earthworm Jim at all, but it's not always that simple.

As for how Jim would sound... we already know that, don't we?

We...probably don't want to go that much in to those comments, though I still don't think he is that bad aside from that.

As for the voice, I was hoping he would sound like how he does in the cartoon, or at least in that ClayFighter game he was in.

 

[NOSTARSICK]

I kinda wanna get my old Genesis out and play again, it's been a good few years, or even watch the animated series again

 

[PhantomShab]

Doesn't even make sense why I would get a "moderate trolling" infraction for defending someone I like, in my own thread, who is relevant to the topic of the thread, from garbage comments made by a known instigator like Opossum. But I guess it is possible to commit "thoughtcrime" here and that's just one of many reasons this forum sucks.

I've gotten one before. I got it overturned by an admin after showing him the warning was bull****, but it still happened nonetheless.

 

[AEMehr]

Doesn't even make sense why I would get a "moderate trolling" infraction for defending someone I like, in my own thread, who is relevant to the topic of the thread, from garbage comments made by a known instigator like Opossum. But I guess it is possible to commit "thoughtcrime" here and that's just one of many reasons this forum sucks.

From my interactions with you I've learned to not take anything you say seriously.

do you read your own posts?
I think the reason for the warning is obvious in this situation, lol.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

do you read your own posts?
I think the reason for the warning is obvious in this situation, lol.

Um, not that I am defending Josh or that I have a problem with it, but to make sure I don't make the same mistake in the future, what is wrong with it? Forgive my apparent ignorance here, by the way.

EDIT: So, anyone has any hopes for what Earthworm Jim has, moveset wise, if he were to get in?

 

[PsychoJosh]

do you read your own posts?
I think the reason for the warning is obvious in this situation, lol.

It's the truth. Every single thing he posts is smug, self-important instigation. What exactly is there to discuss with his post? It's nothing but flamebiat. "This person is terrible because he has an opinion that isn't mine". In a thread devoted to one of that person's characters that likely has fans of his posting in it. It meets the textbook definition of trolling yet he doesn't get a trolling infraction. Where is the fairness here?

He's made homophobic and transphobic comments in the past; they're fairly well-documented, and we should probably leave it at that. In this case, it seems easy enough to separate the creator from the creation, since none of that mindset is present in Earthworm Jim at all, but it's not always that simple.

I'd rather not have this turn into a lengthy discussion/debate, since the Earthworm Jim support thread isn't really a place to open up that can of worms. I just wanted to say that there is proof of this behaviour.

As for how Jim would sound... we already know that, don't we?

You do know that is Doug voicing Jim there, right?

EDIT: So, anyone has any hopes for what Earthworm Jim has, moveset wise, if he were to get in?

My planned moveset for Jim is in the OP. I wish more people would tell me what they think of it.

 

[Blankiturayman]

Oh hey, I didn't know there was a support thread for Jim. Add me to the list! I played his games long ago, even 3D (freaking pork boarding), and think he'd be a pretty fun addition! Even if there's almost no chance for him to be in, there's no harm in supporting, I suppose.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Oh hey, I didn't know there was a support thread for Jim. Add me to the list! I played his games long ago, even 3D (freaking pork boarding), and think he'd be a pretty fun addition! Even if there's almost no chance for him to be in, there's no harm in supporting, I suppose.

You got it! Welcome aboard.

Also, I liked EWJ3D. I feel like I'm the only one who saw good things in that game. lol

 

[Blankiturayman]

You got it! Welcome aboard.

Also, I liked EWJ3D. I feel like I'm the only one who saw good things in that game. lol

To be fair, what I remember of the game was fine aside from the bosses. I should probably give it a replay sometime.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Since we're talking about Earthworm Jim 3D, would Earthworm Kim be better as an alt or an Echo?

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Since we're talking about Earthworm Jim 3D, would Earthworm Kim be better as an alt or an Echo?

Who is Earthworm Kim?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Who is Earthworm Kim?

She's the final boss of the game, I believe. She's a mental embodiment of Jim's "feminine" side, and wants to take over his body. Visually, she's just Rule 63 Earthworm Jim.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Since we're talking about Earthworm Jim 3D, would Earthworm Kim be better as an alt or an Echo?

I'm not sure they should touch that. They didn't give Cloud his crossdressing outfit alt for a reason so I assume they'd probably give EWK the same treatment.