Black Knight for Brawl (SPOILERS AHEAD)

[OniLink171]

Why do we have to fight? Mario has....... um...... counting.... 7 representatvies, 8 if Geno gets in. Why can't FE have 4? Ike, Machaiah, Marth, and Black Knight. And for those of you saying the Black Knight isn't important, he doesn't have to be. Watch the clip where Greil dies a couple times. BK is just plain cool, a lot cooler than any other FE villain in the English series (yes, i know that's only two games). And he's not a clone, either. Watch his battle frames from chapter 27 (if you fight him accidentaly in any other chapters i pity you). He fights differently. His ability is different. He has a huge suit pf impenetrable armor. He uses the arcane powder to teleport. Ike would be a lot faster and lighter. In fact we already know Ike and BK have different Up - B moves. I'm assuming BK's standard - B is Luna, and as Ike doesn't have it, that makes two special moves plus pretty much all the attack moves. the only similarities they might have is not flinching and Down - B, the classic "counter" move of FE characters.

Edit: Does everyone posting here actively not want BK to get in? Or is it just because he might take up an otherwise open character slot?

 

[Pete278]

I really don't agree. Tell me how important the Black Knight is compared to Micaiah's importance to the plot of Radiant Dawn. It's obvious that she is more important than the Black Knight.

Is the Black Knight the central focus of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn as a whole? He isn't and it really hurts his chances as well. I'm not saying that the Black Knight isn't important to PoR and RD; he is very important but he isn't the central focus of the games.

The Black Knight appearing in two games is a plus, but I don't think it's Amazing...and that really shouldn't carry him over for consideration to become a playable character.

-Knight

The Black Knight killed Ike's father, the former greatest swordsman in the entire world. Surely that makes him rather important to the storyline of Path of Radiance? And while Ashnard may have been the leader, it was the Black Knight who went out and got Ashnard the things he required. I haven't played Radiant Dawn as of yet, so I don't know his importance to that game, but he is fairly **** important in Path of Radiance.

 

[KIFIKA]

great idea for a character, some flaws, but with a few nerfs, he'd be a great addition.

 

[retro gamer 6]

hey hes one of those characters i'd like to see in brawl i mean ganondorf came in melee, tha wasn't something i expected. so yea black knight could be in brawl. we'll have to wait and see......

 

[Pieman0920]

The Black Knight killed Ike's father, the former greatest swordsman in the entire world. Surely that makes him rather important to the storyline of Path of Radiance? And while Ashnard may have been the leader, it was the Black Knight who went out and got Ashnard the things he required. I haven't played Radiant Dawn as of yet, so I don't know his importance to that game, but he is fairly **** important in Path of Radiance.

The father killing and Ike's revenge was basically it though. He was just a boss that Ike needed to get even with. And heck, Ashnard wouldn't really be a evil king dictator if he got things himself and didn't use his lackies. In Radient Dawn, his role is a lot more limited, though Ike is still mad about the dead dad thing. In reality, his alter ego does more than he does. =/

And the Mario series has 5, not 8, and is on a much higher level than FE. That's why it'd get lucky to even get 3.

 

[Pete278]

Even if Micaiah is more important than the Black Knight in the series, which I have my doubts about, the Black Knight appears to be overall more popular.

 

[Pieman0920]

You shouldn't doubt her greater importance, as it's quite obvious once you know the story of RD. And I doubt their is even much of a difference in her popularity in Japan. (And heck, popularity isn't the deciding factor as Sakurai says. He also wants to add in innovative characters. While it remains to be seen if Micaiah could be made into someone innovative, the BK doesn't really have much that seperates him from Ike)

 

[LuLLo]

(Never played Fire Emblem) I think he looks cool and he'd make up for a great character, but what's his personality like, it looks like he doesn't say much, but then again I've never played any FE.
If he's got a good personality (I find that important in video game characters, sorry ) he's my man.

 

[OniLink171]

The father killing and Ike's revenge was basically it though. He was just a boss that Ike needed to get even with. And heck, Ashnard wouldn't really be a evil king dictator if he got things himself and didn't use his lackies. In Radient Dawn, his role is a lot more limited, though Ike is still mad about the dead dad thing. In reality, his alter ego does more than he does. =/

And the Mario series has 5, not 8, and is on a much higher level than FE. That's why it'd get lucky to even get 3.

Noooo..... Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, DK, Diddy Knog, and possibly Geno. so 7, possibly 8. Even if you don't count DK and diddy, that's still 5 possibly 6. And why not just kick out Marth? Ike would be almost the same. They're both FE Lords, using two handed blades (yes i know they wield the "two handed" blades with one hand, but still). I'd love to see BK and Machaiah. Hell, the only games that wont have 3 or more are Ice Climbers, F - Zero, and possibly Metroid/Star Fox (not counting third partiers and oddball characters like Sukapon). FE is definatly on a higher standing than Ice Climbers and F - Zero.

 

[Pieman0920]

Yoshi is part of the Yoshi Series, but I guess it's debatable.

DK and Diddy though have gone far enough to become their own. Heck, the DK we currently know has only been in one canon Mario game, and Diddy has been in zero. They belong to their own series.

The Mario count is 5 last game though with Dr. Mario, and only Zelda tied that, with Pokemon coming close with four. FE isn't on their level. It probably never will be. I don't think any series will drop in number, so I'd say FE has at least 2, and 3 if lucky. It's not important enough to get more. And even then I'm being generous. Most series will only have 1 to 2, not what you said.

 

[Kirby knight]

Noooo..... Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, DK, Diddy Knog, and possibly Geno. so 7, possibly 8. Even if you don't count DK and diddy, that's still 5 possibly 6. And why not just kick out Marth? Ike would be almost the same. They're both FE Lords, using two handed blades (yes i know they wield the "two handed" blades with one hand, but still). I'd love to see BK and Machaiah. Hell, the only games that wont have 3 or more are Ice Climbers, F - Zero, and possibly Metroid/Star Fox (not counting third partiers and oddball characters like Sukapon). FE is definatly on a higher standing than Ice Climbers and F - Zero.

Please do not mix up respetive franchises. DK and Diddy Kong have their own; as does Yoshi and Wario regardless if they orginated as Mario characters.

Personally I don't care for Marth, but his importance to the overall franchise that is Fire Emblem is so great it would be foolhardy to not have him return. I really don't see many similaries between Ike and Marth besides hair color.

Fire Emblem is just gaining popularity outside of Japan. At the max I could see 3 Fire Emblem characters make it. I would be thankful if 4 could make it but realisticly speaking that wouldn't seem likely to happen.

-Knight

 

[OniLink171]

Yoshi is part of the Yoshi Series, but I guess it's debatable.

DK and Diddy though have gone far enough to become their own. Heck, the DK we currently know has only been in one canon Mario game, and Diddy has been in zero. They belong to their own series.

The Mario count is 5 last game though with Dr. Mario, and only Zelda tied that, with Pokemon coming close with four. FE isn't on their level. It probably never will be. I don't think any series will drop in number, so I'd say FE has at least 2, and 3 if lucky. It's not important enough to get more. And even then I'm being generous. Most series will only have 1 to 2, not what you said.

What series would have less than three except those that i mentioned? Zelda has Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, Pokemon has Pokemon Trainer, Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario, plus 470 other characters. Metroid has Samus, Ridley, and Dark Samus. Star Fox has Fox, Krystal, Wolf, and Falco. Kirby has Kirby, Meta-Knight and Dedede. That leaves the third parties who obviously can only have 1 character per game if the 3 third party limit is to be accepted. Ice Climbers.... there are no other characters except for like the polar bears (Polar Bears for Brawl XD). Sukapon, Miis, Game and Watch.... they're the wierd characters.

Edit: oh, I forgot earthbound. They have Lucas, Ness, and Poo. Even if they don't, isn't FE more important than Earthbound?

 

[Pieman0920]

...o_o;

Do you really think that those guys are all going to get in? You've got to be joking.

 

[OniLink171]

...o_o;

Do you really think that those guys are all going to get in? You've got to be joking.

bah. this is turning into a debate about whether people 1000s of miles away will decide to give FE 3 or more spots. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and stop posting.

 

[Mr. Who]

I like what you've suggested, and I can see it happening. Not so sure about Sakurai-sama. Besides, Smash Bros. needs more villians. (Is he a villian?)

 

[Kirby knight]

I like what you've suggested, and I can see it happening. Not so sure about Sakurai-sama. Besides, Smash Bros. needs more villians. (Is he a villian?)

The Black Knight is a villian, though just because he's a villain shouldn't be his only reason for inclusion.

-Knight

 

[Pieman0920]

Yeah, especially as Sakurai never said he was looking for villains. (And also because not only is BK so close to Ike, but he's also extreamly close to TP Ganondorf, which everyone seems to want these days)

 

[Legolastom]

The Black Knight is a villian, though just because he's a villain shouldn't be his only reason for inclusion.

-Knight

Which it isn't. Its like me saying the only reason Micaich (SP?) would get in is because she is unique.

And Pieman... don't even get me started.

 

[Pieman0920]

What does Black Knight contribute other than his status as a villain though. I want to know. It'd be wrong for his moves not to be like Ike's, and his apperance really is extreamly close to TP Ganondorf. So get started, and tell me what the point of him is.

 

[Legolastom]

Why would his moves be similar to Ike's? Remember they may have been taught by the same man but they were taught in very different ways and its not hard to make him different what with teleport powder and such.

But seriously WhatThe****!? Similar to TP Ganondorf!? what are you smoking man? Now as a very serious Zelda fan and a Fire emblem fan i shall now ask you to shutup on that argument before you embarrass yourself.

And what would BK contribute as a character? well not only could he be a representation of the bad side of FE and the generals you face in the games but he could also be very unique AND he could have a major role in the SE.

So now i ask you what would Micaiah contribute other than being a female magic user?

(The best way to answer a stupid question is with another stupid question).

 

[Wiseguy]

I'm sure you've all heard about the new Fire Emblem for DS starring Marth. Any thoughts on what this means for our boy the Black Knight?

 

[NukeA6]

Marth was meant to come back. He's the first lord of Fire Emblem, he's popular, and his sword is the logo. Seeing that there's a FE1 remake proves that he's not obscure and forgotten.

Black Knight is gonna have to deal with Micaiah (who I now think may have the better chance) and Sigurd. I truly have doubts for him now.

 

[Pieman0920]

Why would his moves be similar to Ike's? Remember they may have been taught by the same man but they were taught in very different ways and its not hard to make him different what with teleport powder and such.

But seriously WhatThe****!? Similar to TP Ganondorf!? what are you smoking man? Now as a very serious Zelda fan and a Fire emblem fan i shall now ask you to shutup on that argument before you embarrass yourself.

And what would BK contribute as a character? well not only could he be a representation of the bad side of FE and the generals you face in the games but he could also be very unique AND he could have a major role in the SE.

So now i ask you what would Micaiah contribute other than being a female magic user?

(The best way to answer a stupid question is with another stupid question).

Since when was it different? And why would he be teaching them differenty? Maybe if they used different swords, but they don't do that. It's pretty much wrong not to have them use the same moves because of that. Teleporting (which a good deal of characters already have) hardly constitutes as something that should make his character different.

About Black Knight and TP Ganondorf.

I think I don't even need to comment here.

I said other than being a villain, which is one of the points you used. (And if he was in SE, he'd be a villain there too. But really, he'd never get a important role, even if in it. Other villains would) He's hardly unique, especially compared to others who are. Unless you want to completely revamp him in some odd way, he'll never be anything but that Ike clone that looks like Ganondorf.

And Micaiah's got the stutus checks for her, what with being the main lord of the latest Fire Emblem game. (Bar FE DS, as it's creation probably wasn't known to Sakurai...though Marth will still probably in) Magic users have a much greater ability to be unique due to the nature of magic itself. It's not a sword which stays in one form, and it can be basically anything. Next off, she's help aid awareness of FE10, which should be released in America by the time SSBB comes out. (Which Ike could do also, but he's not on the cover of Radient Dawn, not the main character.) She's also a different style of character than we've been getting from the FE franchise so far.

 

[xianfeng]

Spoiler

I hate Zephiel so much but I love Black Knight, how can someone so lame be someone so cool?

 

[Kirby knight]

I'm sure you've all heard about the new Fire Emblem for DS starring Marth. Any thoughts on what this means for our boy the Black Knight?

I really don't think that has anything to with this Black Knight issue, however it seems a majority of claims in favor of the Black Knight have been exaggerated. He's not as important as people are making him out to be. He's a villain that's about it.

Then people have the nerve to think appearing in two games, let alone not be the center attention of either them gives him some merit to inclusion, it's a bit absurd.

The Black Knight will most likely appear as a boss (non-playable) if at all.

-Knight

 

[Pieman0920]

Xianfeng, you must be confused. That person is not the Black Knight.

 

[Kirby knight]

@Pieman

Wow, I wasn't aware how similar Ganon was, when compared to the Black Knight (Due to not having played TP). When comparing those pictures the seem almost exactly the same barring fighting stance and Amour.

I see why you kept bringing that up.

-Knight

 

[Legolastom]

What!? they just have the same pose apart from a POSE they look nothing alike.

 

[Pieman0920]

Same basic body type with large black evil European armor with flowing red capes. Also both their swords are quite similar too. Those two look a like. Heck, distinguishing the two in battle, where the zoomed out camera makes their differences harder to see would be a problem. =/

 

[NukeA6]

About Black Knight and TP Ganondorf.

I think I don't even need to comment here.

I didn't even notice that before. Now I'm almost completely convinced Black Knight won't be playable (unless Sakurai is doing clones again). Sad

 

[Shuma]

Oh teh noes, they're both knights and have the same pose..........................

What's up with you guys? Ganondorf uses Magic and it's some kind of Demi-god thief warrior magician thing, the Black kNight is... a Black Knight.

 

[Kirby knight]

Oh teh noes, they're both knights and have the same pose..........................

What's up with you guys? Ganondorf uses Magic and it's some kind of Demi-god thief warrior magician thing, the Black kNight is... a Black Knight.

I really don't see his chances of being playable that high, and it's not because of that picture. Here is my post incase you missed it.

I really don't think that has anything to with this Black Knight issue, however it seems a majority of claims in favor of the Black Knight have been exaggerated. He's not as important as people are making him out to be. He's a villain that's about it.

Then people have the nerve to think appearing in two games, let alone not be the center attention of either them gives him some merit to inclusion, it's a bit absurd.

The Black Knight will most likely appear as a boss (non-playable) if at all.

Best prepare yourself for the reality of him not being included.

-Knight

 

[Shuma]

Meh, i'm prepared. but:

"Then people have the nerve to think appearing in two games"

Tell that to the Marth followers. Aniway, although the Black Knight is not really a given and he doesn't have giganourmous chances, he can't really be a boss, he really isn't boss material.

Also, now that Marth has a higher chance i doubt Micaiah would get in, so that's a +1 for dear BK. Besides, Sakurai must know about him, Ike is in, and the Black Knight is a crucial part to Ike, so let's see pros and cons.

Pros:

He has a small fanbase.
He is the only possible FE villain PC.
Sakurai knows about him.
Ike is in.
Micaiah chances have been decreased.

Cons:

Fe roster size, if it's still 2 then the BK is screwed, if it's 3 he has a minimal chance, if it's 4, he is in.
Small fanbase.

I think that's all.

 

[Kirby knight]

Meh, i'm prepared. but:

"Then people have the nerve to think appearing in two games"

Tell that to the Marth followers. Aniway, although the Black Knight is not really a given and he doesn't have giganourmous chances, he can't really be a boss, he really isn't boss material.

Also, now that Marth has a higher chance i doubt Micaiah would get in, so that's a +1 for dear BK. Besides, Sakurai must know about him, Ike is in, and the Black Knight is a crucial part to Ike, so let's see pros and cons.

Pros:

He has a small fanbase.
He is the only possible FE villain PC.
Sakurai knows about him.
Ike is in.
Micaiah chances have been decreased.

Cons:

Fe roster size, if it's still 2 then the BK is screwed, if it's 3 he has a minimal chance, if it's 4, he is in.
Small fanbase.

I think that's all.

I am well aware of Marth follows bragging about how many games he has been in, that only isn't the deciding factor in Marth's inclusion. Thoughout FE1&3 he has been the center of attention in those stories unlike that of the Black Knight and he also set in stone the Fire Emblem franchise as the very first lord.

I'm not going to get into this Micaiah business as of right now, but the pro's that you've stated in favor of the Black Knight are not very good ones.

Popularity should not be the only deciding factor when it comes to choosing a Fire Emblem character, so the fan base of any Fire Emblem character only will not give them enough merit for inclusion. Being a villain doesn't give the Black Knight much of a push to become playable because 1# He his overshadowed by many other Fire Emblem characters who have more importance than him. I don't see Sakurai adding a Fire Emblem villain just to add one when there are more important characters that should be added first. Sakurai knows about him? Wow such a big pro; I hear Sakurai also knows about Jeigan, that doesn't give any points to the Black Knight there. Ike's inclusion has almost nothing to do with the Black Knight. Are you only bringing that up because he's his personal foe?

His con's heavily out weigh his pro's; which I haven't seen many notable ones by the way. Honestly Elincia has a better chance of appearing; at least she's important.

-Knight

 

[Shuma]

Look, i see it like this, the FE roster should be Ike(confirmed) Marth(70% confirmed) and or Sigurd(i hear he's very popular) and the Black Knight.

The most important pro, is that he's the only possible PC FE villain, since Sakurai whant's villaians for the SE. And yes you're right, the cons outweight the Pros, but that doesn't rule him out, look at Pokemon Trainer, or Ridley, Ridley pros outweigh the cons yet there's a chance he might end as a boss.

 

[Kirby knight]

Look, i see it like this, the FE roster should be Ike(confirmed) Marth(70% confirmed) and or Sigurd(i hear he's very popular) and the Black Knight.

The most important pro, is that he's the only possible PC FE villain, since Sakurai whant's villaians for the SE. And yes you're right, the cons outweight the Pros, but that doesn't rule him out, look at Pokemon Trainer, or Ridley, Ridley pros outweigh the cons yet there's a chance he might end as a boss.

I can see the point your trying to get across, but I don't see why him being a Sub-space boss is so unrealistic. Comparing him the the Pokemon Trainer doesn't work because the Pokemon Trainer is the most important character in every single pokemon game.

As for Ridley, those who support him may have to come to terms with the chance he could become a boss only. As unlikely at that is to happen; he's actually pretty high up on my personal character list.

I wish the Black Knight had more to offer, but he simply doesn't; he just falls short.

-Knight

 

[Shuma]

Because i expect Subspace bossess to be characters that couldn't be a PC, like PEtey since he's a gigantic monster, and the Black Knight isn't a super powered beast and isn't gigantic, and i don't think he could be an AT. So the only options are a throphy or a PC.

Still, for me the Black Knight would be a bonus, the characters i really whant are Wolf and Ridley, Ike was my third most whanted character and he's in. so yeah.

 

[Pieman0920]

For SE, the boss/villain/whatever seems to best fit a dragon, at least as far as FE is concerned. Not only is its type much better suited for as a boss (really, there won't be humansized humanoid bosses in SE that are not already playable) but the dragon also represents teh franchise a heck of a lot better. =/

 

[johnjoelw]

I didn't even notice that before. Now I'm almost completely convinced Black Knight won't be playable (unless Sakurai is doing clones again). Sad

Thats some Pretty Shabby Photoshop work you have there. lol

 

[spikehappy07]

[/QUOTE]
Victory Pose 2
He spins Alondite around and then thrusts the tip into the ground, igniting dark flames around him as his hands rest upon the handle.
[/QUOTE]

Isn't this gannondork's victory animation?