Bioware Mafia (ovah)

[EdreesesPieces]

Sorry the second link was supposed to be this http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11186641&postcount=3190

 

[Mad Scummy]

Look who's back. Got me some time, and someone's gotta carry this slot. Some of what I'm about to say is surely parroting. Posting thoughts as I type from Pg22

Chibo just isn't scum guys. There is a difference between poor town play and scummy play. What's this guy? An idiot. So he's town. Said it before, said it again.

@ RonEEke - make me lynch SC, plz.

I'm disliking how MS went from active and bull-by-the-horns to lurking, and he seems far less confident. Most people take the gloves off in endgame, Mad Scummy put them back on. I considered him quite townie from D1-2 though, which is what's bothering me.

Oh my. When did Swissy boi go inactive? Think my ego just exploded.

X1's worried Tan got recruited, this has to be considered. Telling RonEEKe and Gord that they're town isn't exactly difficult.

SC - why is EP scum? One or two lines (quoted if need be) will do.

Would lynch OS.

 

[Mad Scummy]

Wow that's a lot of thoughts.

EP (was it him) said about OS' inconsistency. Rings true to me. cbf re-reading all that to find out who said it.

 

[Mad Scummy]

Swiss? Multiposting? Never.

 

[Mad Scummy]

OS which BBR members would have done that darn sneaky Praxis kill? How do you feel about effectively absolving me and a couple of other chumps of that NK? Are there any other reasons scum could have NK'd him?

Sounds like you're trying to cast suspicion on a specific group of people, and get them each of them to look suspiciously at each other. In fighting.

whrrrrrrr

 

[Tandora]

Here is our current list of living players:

1. Goomba! (Tom/Gheb_01 hydra)
5. ronEEke
6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)
7. Edreesespieces
9. Overswarm
10. ChiboSempai
11. Nix2100
13. Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra)
14. GorditoBoy69
15. Tandora

I can eliminate myself, Ron, and Gordito based on investigations. I have eliminated (for my own purposes) Chibo and Nix based on scum pushes that I feel were easy inactive lynch attempts. OS I have decided to give the benefit of a doubt on his claim and see if he can get us some additional information.

This leaves:
1. Goomba! (Tom/Gheb_01 hydra)
6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)
7. Edreesespieces
13. Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra)

Omg, three hydras to try to decipher. Looking at voting patterns doesn't help at all, honestly.

After several searches and researches, I am going to go with VOTE SOVIET COFFEE at this time.

He introduced the sanity issue regarding my character. He was absolutely certain Cheesecake was dumbtown (wrong) just as much as he was Swords was dumbtown (correct). Is it possible they decide to let SC promote Swords as dumb town so when Swords flipped, he could point to that later? Obviously scum is going to want to protect the godfather more than any other role, so SC voting for Jungle was still a safe choice as far as scum was concerned.

I also find it weird that in one post SC puts me as probable town but my investigation Ron as probable scum AFTER I made my role claim. How does a person come to that conclusion realistically? Why was one of SC's first thoughts that I was not a sane cop? EP suggested that I may have been recruited which was a much more likely possibility, but SC goes for the further undermining suggestion of me not even being sane. Is it because he knows I am not the recruited player?

 

[Soviet Coffee]

SC - why is EP scum? One or two lines (quoted if need be) will do.

...


I assume you mean "why are you suspicious that Tandora is not a sane cop"?



Blatent misrepresentation of my actions that he refuses to answer, which I find hard to believe was an error.

He introduced the sanity issue regarding my character. He was absolutely certain Cheesecake was dumbtown (wrong) just as much as he was Swords was dumbtown (correct). Is it possible they decide to let SC promote Swords as dumb town so when Swords flipped, he could point to that later? Obviously scum is going to want to protect the godfather more than any other role, so SC voting for Jungle was still a safe choice as far as scum was concerned.


I also find it weird that in one post SC puts me as probable town but my investigation Ron as probable scum AFTER I made my role claim. How does a person come to that conclusion realistically? Why was one of SC's first thoughts that I was not a sane cop? EP suggested that I may have been recruited which was a much more likely possibility, but SC goes for the further undermining suggestion of me not even being sane. Is it because he knows I am not the recruited player?

1. Because I rarely trust a cop to be sane unless it's explicitly stated (at least partially because I dislike the sane cop role from a game balance prospective).

2. Because I don't like RonEEke's play at all, and I don't think it's right to give him a carte blance yet.



I never discounted the possibility that you had been recruited, but my read on you is still pro-town. Heck, I never discounted the possibility that you had been scum from the very beginning, my read on you is that you're not however, hence why I worked against the wagon against you last game day.



Keep in mind, I explicitly said those were my base reads (which I did mostly because of the possibility of you being a non-sane cop), which is why I said I'd follow the cop, for now.





Also... why are you clearing chibo? There was never a strong push against him by flipped scum, worst he got was a FoS. It could've easily been a distancing attempt.




As far as protecting cheeze, why did I start pushing for Jungle when YOU were in the hotseat then? Unless you're suggesting that you're also scum, as scum I don't think I had much incentive to protect you from the lynch unless I had a townie reason. I didn't back off from jungle because I thought that jungle was more likely to be scum when the cheeze wagon picked up.





@Mentos: If you're not gonna give the priority information, at the very least, post reasoning in-thread, I can't post mod communications, but at the very least tell them what you told me.

 

[Soviet Coffee]

EBWOP:

@Mad scummy: I believe this post has a nice rundown of the issues with his case, issues he has yet to answer to any degree whatsoever.

 

[Evil Eye]

@Mad Swissy: Why are you on SC? As specific as possible, if you please.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Guys, if I had been recruited, why would I step in when I did to take pressure off Roneeke?

In order to gain credibility in the eyes of one of the most experienced, respected players in this game. Ronike and EE have been playing in dGames longer than half of this game's roster together and if there's one player in this game I'd want to have on my side it'd be him by far.

It's not as unlikely as you think.

It means you really think he is scum and it would have been in scum's interest to save him. It also means Ron and I were trying to bus each other. This is after the theory of Jungle and Cheese bussing Chibo and Nix with their constant vote pressures. Feels like a tour bus came through and ran over half the town. =/

Again, I'd like to point out that in this game there's a lot of possible combinations of players busing / being bused and I don't think you can eliminate the idea of you being recruited with that logic because quite frankly I would be surprised if a bus did not happen in this game at all. Overswarm buses, Ronike buses, EE buses, Swiss buses at times and I can bus to the extreme [check Mafia Barhouse Sleepover]. Chibo has a tendency to get bused as do Jungle and Cheesecake, which leaves us with many options and a HIGH PROBABILITY of somebody actually being bussed - especially since the mafia knew they had a recruiter among them consistent play is the main priority in this game. Even if that means to throw a buddy under the bus.

As scum, I would have sat back and quietly let Gordito lead the charge against Ron. It would have been an easy and reasonable lynch.

No, it wouldn't have been easy and reasonable at all.

Had you led an assumed mislynch on RonEEke you would've been held responsible for the death of not one but TWO of the most influental and experienced townies we have. How is that easy to justify or reasonable to do when other people are blatantly taking the back seat at the same time? You had the choice of winning hia favor or being held responsible for this death. From the point of a mafioso you can't tell me that you would've taken the second choice over the first.

Why reveal my big PR except to try to clear two people I know are town and use our time more wisely? I could have just as easily turned town's attention to the recruited player idea instead of revealing a "fake" role if I were scum if I wanted to save a scummate.

You could've done that but it wouldn't make any sense at all. I think everybody has accepted the idea that you are - in some way or form - are a cop, especially since there's no counter claim. Nobody's accusing you of faking your claim. But you can't - by the logic you use - expect us to eliminate the idea that you could've been recruited and with a cop claim, correct innos and buses would've been nearly untouchable in lylo.

Still assuming I was scum, do you really think I would have just announced I was cop without discussing it with my teammates first? Do you think whoever these theoretical teammates are would have approved?

1.) No I don't think so
2.) Yes, I think so

I am a huge target now, but I have also provided town with several cleared players.

Which has nothing to do with your alignment.

Anyone striking you as playing oddly in a possible recruit fashion that fits either class?

Not anymore. For a while I considered you or RonEEke but that has almost completely vanished.

In my, admittedly somewhat limited experience, OS is not one to sit on the sidelines, ever. Do you disagree?

Not at all and that's what bugs me because ... I don't see him sitting on the sidelines at all. Have you seen how much attention he has drawn to himself toDay?

Gheb and Roneeke - my response to your thoughts on the Tandora in the paragraph above - it was a suggestion, and I thought it might be a good backup plan. I didn't think to think it out carefully and didn't realize the game would have been over by then. I'm not gonna push or suggest it if most of town is against it and on top of that wouldn't even work.

In that case my read on EP is still null @ RonEEke

 

[Tandora]

...

Also... why are you clearing chibo? There was never a strong push against him by flipped scum, worst he got was a FoS. It could've easily been a distancing attempt.

I'll do a reread on the Chibo votes/FOS. Maybe I saw more than I thought, but I felt he got the same amount of "Go after this guy" Nix did.

As far as protecting cheeze, why did I start pushing for Jungle when YOU were in the hotseat then? Unless you're suggesting that you're also scum, as scum I don't think I had much incentive to protect you from the lynch unless I had a townie reason. I didn't back off from jungle because I thought that jungle was more likely to be scum when the cheeze wagon picked up.

I think the wagon on me has left me baffled. I was at L-3 and the two confirmed scum did not vote for me at any point. Jungle was even participating then, but instead of voting for me he said he liked my play. If they had voted for me, it would have put me at L-1 and with the deadline so close, surely someone would have hammered. If I had to guess, it is because I was pushing for Roneeke. If you look at Gheb's following post, Ron is considered strong town and therefore a bigger threat than me. I could have been an easy follow up lynch for getting a townie killed and for having been so erratic.

In order to gain credibility in the eyes of one of the most experienced, respected players in this game. Ronike and EE have been playing in dGames longer than half of this game's roster together and if there's one player in this game I'd want to have on my side it'd be him by far.

It's not as unlikely as you think.

I think this is an example of where meta could be applied appropriately. I am not a type of player to try to gain favor of a popular/good player. I just feel it's like brown nosing. I will go after a poor player based on knowing their playstyle mostly because I don't want to see the same mistakes over and over as I play mafia.

Even if I had been encouraged to do it, I wouldn't do it well. I wouldn't know how. And I have never had a game where I have played scum where scum actually communicated amongst themselves other than the most bare bones of idea. So, the concept of someone handholdilng their partner is alien.

I would not have done a lynch against Ron in the first place if I had been scum because I wouldn't want the attention of a strong player against me. If I had started a lynch, I definitely would have wanted to finish it so that player wouldn't be around to lead town and get me killed.

 

[Mad Scummy]

@Mad Swissy: Why are you on SC? As specific as possible, if you please.

I'm not. You are. Just want you to make me lynch him is all. Put some effort into it. But responses to SC would actually be quite nice. I feel like a fish out of water here. Someone get me on a wagon.

Who said EP was scum? My notes clearly fail me.

@ Whoever said that - Why is he scum?

Here was me thinking I was being useful again.

Gheb is it not worth considering that purely because RonEEke is so experienced scum wouldn't recruit him? Especially if they knew Sir Bed clearly sucks as scum. I recruited some scrub not a good player in Chaco mafia, crackin' out the wifom.

Tan, the two scum not voting for you on your wagon implies what? Scum don't wanna lynch ya, why?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Soviet

If you think Tandora's town, and you think that RonEEke's scum, then that means you think that I'm scum. Do you think I'm scum? I doubt it. So explain please.

I know Tandora is telling the truth, at least about me. That leads me to believe that she's a sane cop. The possibility of her being recruited is slim in my eyes. Why would a scum Tandora 100% clear a townie? It makes no sense.

@Gheb

The ONLY reason that OS has attention on himself is FOR sitting on the sidelines. He's just been watching us as a town fall apart. He really hasn't done much to help town, and is trying to dissuade town from his vote by saying he has some incredible ability. I'm not gonna buy into it.

Oh, and he brings back the BBR-Praxis link? Guess who's apart of the BBR? Overswarm. I can easily see him bringing this up to the non-BBR members and trying to look pro town, and not like a possibility toward the link. Unfortunately, the act makes him look WORSE in my eyes.

I think I might've unvoted. My mistake.

Vote: Overswarm

 

[Tandora]

Gheb is it not worth considering that purely because RonEEke is so experienced scum wouldn't recruit him? Especially if they knew Sir Bed clearly sucks as scum. I recruited some scrub not a good player in Chaco mafia, crackin' out the wifom.

Tan, the two scum not voting for you on your wagon implies what? Scum don't wanna lynch ya, why?

Did you win Chaco? A strategy is only good if you win.

I gave my theory on why they didn't vote for me, I was leading a lynch on another townie and I would have made a good mislynch the next day. Also add in that was the same Day OS asked me if I was cop who would I investigate and I gave my answer that it would be on the wagon of the day. Don't know if scum took that answer seriously or not, but it's there.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Tan

He won...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb is it not worth considering that purely because RonEEke is so experienced scum wouldn't recruit him? Especially if they knew Sir Bed clearly sucks as scum. I recruited some scrub not a good player in Chaco mafia, crackin' out the wifom.

Which is why I already mentioned earlier that this kind of discussion is unlikely to be fruitful. One thing you should remember though is that RonEEke replaced in later into the game at a point where he might've been recruited already. It's a whack theory to clear anybody either way.

@Gheb

The ONLY reason that OS has attention on himself is FOR sitting on the sidelines. He's just been watching us as a town fall apart. He really hasn't done much to help town, and is trying to dissuade town from his vote by saying he has some incredible ability. I'm not gonna buy into it.

Let's assume Overswarm is lying and doesn't actually have that incredible ability. So what? How is it actually scummy or hurting the town? In a game of mafia you can hardly take anything at face value.

And I don't see how he's been sitting on the sidelines. It was true for part of D2 but he was posting quite a lot at any other time.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Posting is one thing. Contributing's another. Before pressure, the only thing I can distinctly remember OS bringing up was the whole popcorn thing (which died). Was there any strong pro town move, pre pressure, that OS did?

 

[Overswarm]

October 3rd, 6:12 p.m.

Posting is one thing. Contributing's another. Before pressure, the only thing I can distinctly remember OS bringing up was the whole popcorn thing (which died). Was there any strong pro town move, pre pressure, that OS did?

Not a fan of your play. Reminds me of scum Gordito.

What do you hope to answer with this question? What will your response be if he says something?

You've either ignored things I've done or don't think they are "good" town moves.

What, exactly, is your point? That I should be lynched because I haven't been a "good townie"?

 

[Evil Eye]

@Gheb: I think you misunderstood Tando earlier. She wasn't saying she could easily lead my lynch, she was saying she could have easily stuck her thumb up her *** and let Gordo, Ed, and Soviet go full ****** on me all day and get me lynched. She might have needed to contribute a "derp deadline" vote, but that's about it.

I'm also surprised you accepted EP's excuses for his suggestion.

I'm not. You are. Just want you to make me lynch him is all. Put some effort into it. But responses to SC would actually be quite nice. I feel like a fish out of water here. Someone get me on a wagon.

Yeah that's where I got that vibe. You told me to make you lynch him right after I mentioned that the MS account had become oddly easy to boss around, so I figured you were just bein' cute about expressing your suspicions. Glad that's not the case because the time has passed.

But I'm not on SC right now -- I recognized a fruitless line of questioning when I saw it and moved on. Sadly OS has offered a decent reason to let him live a bit longer, so now I'm stuck rubbing my chin a lot and saying "hmmmm".

I'm taking my time answering Soviet because that **** won't end. Obviously the meta about adum having a mentality where everything he says is a fact and everything everyone says against him is [insert example of incompetent play here] is consistent, so there's really nothing to gain from leaning on him. I have no interest in derailing the town off on a tangent with someone like that. All it'll do is burn up some Daytime.

Obviously he's not quite so ready to move on, and seems lost for what to do when he's not arguing with me or creating scenarios where I could be scum while not pushing heavily against the claimed cop.

The ONLY reason that OS has attention on himself is FOR sitting on the sidelines. He's just been watching us as a town fall apart. He really hasn't done much to help town, and is trying to dissuade town from his vote by saying he has some incredible ability. I'm not gonna buy into it.

Eh, that's not really true. I've been on him for taking swipes at people FROM the sidelines, but it's the how that bothered me, and the intent I picked up from it. Not the fact that he was on the sidelines -- the amount of time he has spent on the sidelines is just the shifty whipped cream on a big ol' shifty sundae.

He also tried to get a popcorn thing going that would have actually could have taken a fair amount of heat off of me. Furthermore, he seems perfectly content with being lynched to verify the information he provides toMorrow, so OS seems like a pretty dumb play for toDay.

One thing you should remember though is that RonEEke replaced in later into the game at a point where he might've been recruited already. It's a whack theory to clear anybody either way.

...what? We replaced in on D1. There was no opportunity to recruit us, unless you're seriously going to suggest that we've got a Day Recruiter or some ****. And The_Guide did quite literally nothing to be appealing -- nothing at all, actually. Pretty **** recruit choice if you ask me. I agree using meta to clear someone from being the recruit isn't a good idea, but sometimes a preposterous cigar is just a preposterous cigar. /Freud

I agree we shouldn't dwell too much on recruiter meta. But going into N1 I feel like with the number of potentially strong players we had, there were plenty of recruit options (Dr. Riddler, RonEEke, Mad Scummy, Goomba, OS, Soviet). However, Soviet had been under a great deal of fire, so he's probably off the list. We were admittedly pretty crap, and a late replacement to boot, so couple that with the fact that I KNOW I'm not the recruit, and I'm off. Dr. Riddler was lurking and under plenty of fire for it. That leaves Gheb, OS, and Mad Scummy, for me. Those were the strongest players going into N1, as I see it, and scum would be smarter to eliminate one and get them playing for the home team than to recruit some random putz that had acquired their share of attention (gordito, tando, etc) for a WIFOM bonus.


People need to get off this notion that Tando is scum through some kind of absurd machinations. Look at the actual claims she has made -- Gordo town, RonEEke town. She provided her rationale for Gordito. It clicks. She provided her rationale for me. It definitely clicks. Tandora can be an emotional player sometimes, so I completely buy that her investigations would be people who exerted pressure on her to some extent, especially given her OMGUS-y reaction to Ronike's case.

The suggestion has been offered that she was recruited, and I am town. Well, nice to see somebody not tunneling the situation, but let's move on. If she was recruited, it was 95% likely to have taken place on N1. She tries to temper tantrum away the pressure and throws up some serious OMGUS. Seemed pretty **** scummy at the time, but in the scenario where she was a Recruited Cop things are a bit different. Frankly, as her scumbuddy, I'd be watching her every move like a hawk, and I really wouldn't let her piss away such a perfect claim -- that **** is the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's Mafia Win Factory if you do it right. And she just... was not doing it right. Not at all.

In fact her play was, well, not at all unlike her D1 play.

Let's move on.

D3 starts. Commence The People vs RonEEke. The blind charge leads itself with plenty of enthusiasm. Does Tando contribute to it? No. Does Tando sit back and see what's going to happen? No. Instead she does a ****ing reread because we just had two scumflips. How people thought pulling a Leonard Shelby and just grilling me with short-term memory tunnel vision would be more productive than rereading the god **** game and looking for connections is astounding, and part of the reason I'm completely convinced there was at least one scum on that wagon out of pure opportunism and nothing else.

So yeah, super town points for Tandora. And that's independent of her conclusions.

Which were good. I've openly stated that I think Nix is town. With two active mafia wagons, you'd quite literally have to be mentally ******** to pounce on a THIRD mafia wagon that is pushed up by someone else. Both mafiats? Seriously? The only way this could be more transparent is if Ed started the wagon and Cheez and jungle both jumped on it simultaneously.

Meanwhile I know I'm town, so obviously I feel good about her second read based on voting activity and connections.

Chibo's a question mark for me, but I've had my doubts just from who truly, uncompromisingly awful his play has been. I still don't know where I stand on him, but I certainly feel like her conclusion there was a strong one, even if not correct.

But of course, no one listens. And it goes on, and on... and on... and on.

Gordito launches his prong to the assault, and it's a massive one, and requires an even more massive rebuttal. And this -- not sooner -- is where Tandora decides to claim.

Come on, guys. A Mafia Cop would be DYING to make that claim, are you kidding me? They'd be like a racehorse waiting behind the gate, pumped full of steroids and shark pheromones. But not only does Tandora instead try to clear me through scumhunting first, but she claims right as The People vs RonEEke is starting to look like it could spiral out of control. And not a moment sooner. So much hesitation, so much avoidance of actually going for the claim. So much sincerity.

I don't think Tandora is a strong enough player to fake this, the way the dots all connect so perfectly, and yet without any sense of fabrication or machination.

Sometimes a cop is just a cop.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

October 3rd, 6:12 p.m.



Not a fan of your play. Reminds me of scum Gordito.

What do you hope to answer with this question? What will your response be if he says something?

You've either ignored things I've done or don't think they are "good" town moves.

What, exactly, is your point? That I should be lynched because I haven't been a "good townie"?

No. You should be lynched because you're lurking. And when you're pressured, you tried to throw out a PR that you think would make us NOT want to go after your lynch (when in reality, it just makes me want to lynch you even more).

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 3rd, 6:50 p.m.

No. You should be lynched because you're lurking. And when you're pressured, you tried to throw out a PR that you think would make us NOT want to go after your lynch (when in reality, it just makes me want to lynch you even more).

Gordito has been pretty stubborn toDay.

Go ahead and outline the worst case scenario.

I'll outline the best case scenarios for you:

I'm town.

I have an ability that allows me to see alignment, but only once.

I survive and clear someone

or

Tandora survives and clears someone


Hell, even if you think I'm lying, if I'm town that means mafia will kill me and waste a NKill. Not to mention the possibility of a passive action.

If scum manages to guess who I investigate, that sucks. Not much you can do about that. But with a claimed cop and two confirmed townies, I doubt we'll overlap unless scum is gambity as hell or Tandora is scum.


We have an easy game ahead of us if we keep our wits and listen to Occam's Razor.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Worst case scenario:

You're scum and we don't lynch you.

Doc protects you.

Scum kills the ONLY investigative role.

We have no more investigative roles.

But... Ugh... I don't know... I guess I AM being a bit stubborn... I really see no other plays toDay. I GUESS if something else comes up, I might be willing to consider not lynching you and seeing what happens. I'm just confused.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

GorditoBoy69 will reveal himself as town or scum pretty easily the more he talks. He plays in a similar manner regardless of alignment, but he leaves a trail like a raging fire based on his alignment. I'm not concerned with GBoy69. He'll out himself if he plays a good game, and will leave himself with a strong town against him if he doesn't. I'm fine with this for now.

Yea... umm... I was reading back when I fount this contradiction from OS...

Not a fan of your play. Reminds me of scum Gordito.

I mean, unless you're referring to Sonic Mafia, I've never been scum. And you say that I play similarly as scum and town, yet I remind you of my scum play? Care to elaborate?

Oh, and no SSBF reference ?

 

[mentosman8]

Vote count

[3]ChiboSempai: Overswarm, Gheb_01, GorditoBoy69
[1]Overswarm: Edreesespieces
[1]Tandora: ChiboSempai
[1]Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra): Tandora
[0]ronEEke:
[0]Nix2100:
[0]Gheb_01:
[0]GorditoBoy69:
[0]Edreesespieces:
[0]Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra):


[4]Not Voting: SovietCoffee, Mad Scummy, Nix2100, ronEEke


A deadline is set for October 7, 2010 at 11:59PM CST.

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

October 3
Gordito Boy
Overswarm
ronEEke
Gheb_01
Tandora
Mad Scummy
Soviet Coffee

October 2


October 1
Edreesespieces

Inactive
ChiboSempai

Noted V/LA
Nix(until Monday)

 

[CT Chia]

prod dodge

my mistake, will post tonight. im caught up in my other game and will for this now

 

[Mad Scummy]

Gord. Heard of unvoting? You'll never get Overscum lynched that way.

OS - Gord raises a good point. He pretty much has no scum meta. Plz explain wtf you're talking about. kthx.

I can see OS breadcrumbing and then claiming a weak town PR from the beginning of the game. Why? 'Cuz it means he wouldn't be NK'd. Seems like the kind of sneaky 'omg im so clevaaaaar' play OS likes to make.

Having said that, if he does have this ability, which is basically a one night cop thingaii, then Tan ain't gonna be a straight up town sane cop.

'prolly skimmed something. Too busy re-setting up my laptop (I HAVE IT BACK I'M SO TOTALLY ACTIVE NOW GUYS LIKE YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH)

*ahem*

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 4th, 8:43 a.m.

OS - Gord raises a good point. He pretty much has no scum meta. Plz explain wtf you're talking about. kthx.

Mad Scummy asked me about Gord's scum meta. I already wrote in my journal that his scum and town play is similar except for the trail he makes, which is as bright as can possibly be. Gordito as scum will go after straight up townies. Think of it as a level 1 yomi layer.

level 1 yomi- He's scum, so he tries hard to lynch townies
level 2 yomi- He's scum, so he tries to protect townies from other townies to clear himself
level 3 yomi- He's scum, so he tries to kill scum

Gordito is someone that sticks on level 1 rather than move around. The "bright" part about it is how he does it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: when it looks like someone knows more than they're letting on, they probably do. Confidence of that sort doesn't come from nowhere.

He's somewhat cleared by Tandora, and I'm inclined to believe she's sane, so unless Tandora was recruited I'll just have to assume Gordito is straight up wrong.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 4th, 10:51 a.m.

Scum is ultimately silent. I'm unsure what they're wanting to happen at Night, but I can tell you they aren't pushing for anyone's lynch. No one is.

To me, this implies there is only one left. If there were two it would be much easier to attack. With only one left? He's forced to lurk in the shadows and pray he isn't investigated. That means that he's either going to kill me, and then Tandora while hoping Tandora doesn't investigate him, or kill Tandora and hope I don't hit him with an investigation.

Either way, Tandora won't survive more than two Nights as Cop unless there's a mafia roleblocker. If there is, I could see a roleblocking of myself and a killing of Tandora being particularly effective strategy resulting in two investigative roles being killed (my lynch would be the following day, more than likely), plus two others (lynches).

Out of the ten of us, that'd leave 6 remaining.

The good news is, if Tandora dies and is cleared, Roneeke and GBoy are cleared.

So best case scenario for scum:

we lynch a townie today
he kills Tandora, roleblocks me (and is not tracked/watched)
Roneeke and GBoy are cleared.
I am lynched because my ability didn't work (logical, but not optimal for town if there are other PRs)
Scum kills Roneeke or GBoy.

Remaining:

6 players
1 confirmed townie in GBoy

new dead:
15. Tandora
9. Overswarm
5. ronEEke (oh come on you know it'd be him)
+1 one townie below
Alive: -1 townie below
1. Goomba! (Tom/Gheb_01 hydra)
6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)
7. Edreesespieces
10. ChiboSempai
11. swordgard Nix2100
13. Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra)
14. GorditoBoy69


Assuming Tandora is recruited and is scum herself, we currently have

3/10 confirmed as town (tandora, Gboy, Ron)

lynch/nkill

after my investigation + tandora's, we'd have

5/8 confirmed as town (assuming confirmed wasn't NKilled, in which case 4/8)

lynch/nkill

Then 5/6 are all "confirmed town"

lynch/nkill

4/4 are all "confirmed town"

Easy Tandora lynch. Mathematically, it is impossible for Tandora to win on her own as Cop. This is not meant to tell people to ignore the possibility completely, as there could be two mafia or an independent or who knows what else. Just know that, as a single entity, it is currently impossible for Tandora to win as cop or to "accidentally" be uncleared. The odds of Tandora and the mafia member constantly selecting hte same target are slim.


This is ignoring any sort of vig play.



So, now that I've recapped the logistics of our situation we have some issues to address.

Who does Tandora investigate, and who do I investigate? (To prevent overlap)

If mafia manages to kill who either of us choose, that'd suck but it can't be help. If there's a tracker or watcher role, it might not be a bad idea to focus your efforts on Tandora and myself.

Who do we lynch?

Here is the proverbial 6:

1. Goomba! (Tom/Gheb_01 hydra)
6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)
7. Edreesespieces
10. ChiboSempai
11. Nix2100
13. Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra)

Given what we know to be true, at least one of those members are scum. Out of 10 members, we've narrowed it down to 6.

Nix has been completely inactive and is V/LA until today. He might end up getting modkilled. So, I remove him.

1. Goomba! (Tom/Gheb_01 hydra)
6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)
7. Edreesespieces
10. ChiboSempai
13. Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra)

Out of these 5, who does Tandora investigate, who do I investigate, and who do we lynch? This will leave us with a 50/50 chance tomorrow if you believe that Tandora and I are town and both our investigations go through.


To help us make our decisions, I want everyone to make a list for us. Pick a top 3 for us (they can overlap) from the 5 above, in no order.

This will create more information post flip/investigations later down the road. Whether we listen to this is up to us. If anyone disagrees with this idea, speak up now.

Who Tandora should investigate:

6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)
7. Edreesespieces
10. ChiboSempai



Who OS should investigate:
1. Goomba! (Tom/Gheb_01 hydra)
13. Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra)
6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm also surprised you accepted EP's excuses for his suggestion.

I don't look at it as an "excuse". He did admit to be wrong after all, which I believe to be the most reasonable reaction here. What else was he supposed to do? Continue an argument that he knows he's wrong about? Insisting on it being right or even trying to convince others that he was right when he obviously wasn't?

So yes, I do accept it but you should also not forget that I don't give him any credit for it - my stance towards him simply remains unchanged due to his response; had he given a "wrong" response [aka trying to justify himself in some stupid way] it would've changed my stance towards him for the worse but he made the right play; or to be percise the "not wrong" play in this case.

People need to get off this notion that Tando is scum through some kind of absurd machinations. Look at the actual claims she has made -- Gordo town, RonEEke town. She provided her rationale for Gordito. It clicks. She provided her rationale for me. It definitely clicks. Tandora can be an emotional player sometimes, so I completely buy that her investigations would be people who exerted pressure on her to some extent, especially given her OMGUS-y reaction to Ronike's case.

Before I respond - did you have me in mind [possibly among other people] when posting this? It doesn't seem to be directed at anybody specifically.

 

[Evil Eye]

That's directed to everyone, because all this "derp maybe we'll lynch her/maybe some other stupid ****" is starting to make me uncomfortable.

Yes, it's POSSIBLE Tando was recruited, but it's really ****ing unlikely based on her D1 play, and otherwise all her i's are dotted and t's crossed. Frankly the people that try to keep that door open without some kind of demanding evidence like her investigating two dead bodies in a row are probably people that are trying to keep their options open as scum, because accepting a cop claim and 1.5 town clears is anti-scum, especially with how badly we're kicking their *****.

 

[Swiss]

OS, why aren't you an option for Tan to investigate?

Waitin' on X1 for the list. (That means go to our QT, X1)

/cbf logging onto MS

 

[CT Chia]

Journal Entry, October 1st, 8:39 a.m.

It's been a running joke in the BBR that Praxis always dies on the first Day. He died first day this game. I'm pretty sure a BBR member was behind that one.

Looking at Praxis' posts for other possibilities, the only one that really stood out to me was Edrees.

There's nothing saying that it wasn't you then OS...

Chibo just isn't scum guys. There is a difference between poor town play and scummy play. What's this guy? An idiot. So he's town. Said it before, said it again.

I wouldn't call me an idiot <_<
just less than favorable inactive

OS which BBR members would have done that darn sneaky Praxis kill? How do you feel about effectively absolving me and a couple of other chumps of that NK? Are there any other reasons scum could have NK'd him?

Sounds like you're trying to cast suspicion on a specific group of people, and get them each of them to look suspiciously at each other. In fighting.

whrrrrrrr

I will defend OS in the fact that yes, it does seem like it would be someone from the BBR doing so. It's been laughed about much more back there and everyone there knows about it because it was a BBR game. Even though Praxis mentioned it here in the Social thread as you saw Edrees post about it, it just didn't hit home. I still like the train of thought as I discussed about it back when it first came about, however seeing Edrees dig up posts like that to refute what OS is saying makes me feel better about Edrees. I couldn't see scum doing that.

But here's where it all flops upside down... OS is also in the BBR, and I can definitely see him go oh hey let's kill Praxis har har har, and hey we can blame it on those townie BBR members.

I do find it odd that most of the time OS and such has brought up it must be a BBR kinda thing it was Edrees or Soviet in the limelight and no one really talked about me. This makes me feel OS is more picking his certain targets to agitate on purpose. Is it because I agreed with the thought right away?

---

As I'm reading I'm seeing my place referenced constantly as "awful," moreso from a few certain people (like EE) than anyone else and it's kind of unnerving... I wouldn't call my play awful or anti town really. I'm just less active compared to most of the players. I don't want to tout it or anything, but Edrees posted legit thoughts on my play imo:

Chibo - I feel pretty certain he's town. Not too helpful but says good things when he contributes. Has a mind of his own and doesn't try to blend in or dodge attention. I like that he reminded everyone Tandora could have been recruited despite everyone still going away from that. Didn't try to go with the crowd. I look for a few things in scum - going with the flow, and trying to find someone weaker than them to take the heat, and inconcistent logic/stories that don't add up. I don't see chibo doing any of this. He's pretty inactive and dissapears but I think it's at random times, and i thikn his IRL issues of being busy are legit.

---

Can someone please remind me of OS' claim? From not reading for a couple days it slipped my mind.

---

OS still has not done what I asked of him - make a post without his journal header stuff. I have asked multiple times and he hasn't done so, and hasn't even replied to my questioning of it at all.

It's time I switch my vote

Unvote Vote Overswarm

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 4th, 2:02 p.m.

Chibo is as incompetent as ever.

Roneeke or Tandora should choose the lynch toDay.


Chibo should probably read the thread and learn of town's plans. I'm not the play toDay; I'm the plan tomorrow, at earliest. There's no reason otherwise. We've gone over this like 10 times now. Play the game and actually read rather than being a waste of space.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 4th, 2:05 p.m.

OS, why aren't you an option for Tan to investigate?

Why WOULD I be?

I'm starting to think most of the players in this game aren't actually reading the posts that I've made.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Posting from school, so can't give a complete thought. Didn't read Chibo's case, but OS' 948 got me thinking... for the time being, I'll

Unvote

But DON'T think that I'm not suspicious of you.

 

[CT Chia]

Thank you for reminding me what your claim was instead of saying something like...

Play the game and actually read rather than being a waste of space.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 4th, 2:43 p.m.

Chibo is sloth.

Thank you for reminding me what your claim was instead of saying something like...

I'm sorry. I must not have seen it. Can you tell me what you said again? I can't be bothered to play the game.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

All that long post is Overswarm trying to make it look like he really has a one time cop ability, which I still don't think he has. It just looks like you tailored the scenario in your post to imply that you should live. That'd be fine if the story about your ability made sense, but it doesn't. Okay so I pointed out why it didn't make sense in post #897, and this is your response:

Journal Entry, Oct. 1st, 4:51 p.m.



It seems to me that Edrees doesn't understand how to fill in an informational gap. Obviously there's more to my ability than "one shot investigation".

Look, if you are going to suggest town a plan on using your ability, town needs to know how your ability works. If you implied enough about your ability for some people to "fill the informational gap" that's fine, but what if mafia figured it out and town doesn't? It's fine if you want to keep your ability part secret, but if you want town to actually follow a plan that consists of using your ability, you need to explain exactly how your ability works to town. Otherwise we won't be able to understand how or why the plan works without even knowing how your ability actually works.

Your ability DOES not work as a "use investigate now, find out whos innocent/guilty" clearly it doesn't work that way. This is because, as I highlighted, you said that were disappointed mafia didn't kill you yet as your ability would have helped if you were. That really doesn't add up, and if you want town to follow any plans to use the ability I feel you owe town an explanation. I didn't want to keep pushing you after your response to put the pieces together, because I understand why it might be useful sometimes to keep it a secret, but now that you've written scenarios and plans that require using your ability, I'm gonna have to undestand what it really does to take those scenarios and plans seriously.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Oh and my investigation list?

In no particular order

-Edrees (i don't mind being investigated, go ahead and be my guest)
-Mad Scummy
-Soviet Coffee

This is assuming OS gets lynched. if he doesn't get lynched, i'd say to investigate him instead of Soviet Coffee.

I must say though, Gordito's case against OS seems...a bit forced, then he retracts it pretty quick. Trying to make sense of that.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 4th, 4:31 p.m.

vote Edrees

I was off work 60 seconds ago and Metal Gear Solid 4 is waiting for me at home, so you know this is a serious post.

All of this:

Look, if you are going to suggest town a plan on using your ability, town needs to know how your ability works. If you implied enough about your ability for some people to "fill the informational gap" that's fine, but what if mafia figured it out and town doesn't? It's fine if you want to keep your ability part secret, but if you want town to actually follow a plan that consists of using your ability, you need to explain exactly how your ability works to town. Otherwise we won't be able to understand how or why the plan works without even knowing how your ability actually works.

Your ability DOES not work as a "use investigate now, find out whos innocent/guilty" clearly it doesn't work that way. This is because, as I highlighted, you said that were disappointed mafia didn't kill you yet as your ability would have helped if you were. That really doesn't add up, and if you want town to follow any plans to use the ability I feel you owe town an explanation. I didn't want to keep pushing you after your response to put the pieces together, because I understand why it might be useful sometimes to keep it a secret, but now that you've written scenarios and plans that require using your ability, I'm gonna have to undestand what it really does to take those scenarios and plans seriously.

is idiocy.

I have an ability.

It's going to determine alignment.

What does it do? How does it have to do with me? What about me dying?

Who cares?

There's 10 people in this game. Unless you think there's 4 mafia and 2 indepdents, I hardly think letting me live toDay for the potential pay-off of two clears is going to do it.

I don't want to be lynched tomorrow because I'm town; hopefully toNight proves that, but if it doesn't I'm fine with me being lynched to clear someone else.

I must say though, Gordito's case against OS seems...a bit forced, then he retracts it pretty quick. Trying to make sense of that.

I don't like it either, but seriously Edrees. You reek. This is exactly like every anti-town role I've ever seen you in, and I've watched all your games. Gordito has been cleared by Tandora. Godfather already flipped. Gordito is town unless Tandora isn't.



@Tandora

I wonder if your ability says that someone is mafia / independent, or just not town?