Bioware Mafia (ovah)

[Evil Eye]

Chibo you don't explain any of the conditions whatsoever for how and why Tandora is scum, you just took D3 posts and said why you don't like them. You need to do a lot more than that to answer to her claim and its implications.

 

[CT Chia]

I'm a little pressed for time at work which is why I put what I could for now and especially that being a more recent hot topic. And I did talk about how it related to her being scum... Thing's such as riding her claim to safety, rushing into a mass claim (rolefishing), contradictions...

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, Sept 30th, 3:43 p.m.

Was asked who I thought was the bad guy. Easier to find good guys.

From a logical standpoint?

I'd imagine Chibo is town. His play is godawful this game, and he's inactive everywhere. It's too sloppy for me to consider him scum at this point. I have blinders for him at the moment.

If you're in a room full of murderers and one of them is a 5 year old, you assume the 5 year old is innocent. At least in the beginning. Chibo would be a good vig kill if we didn't get more out of him.


I'm assuming Tandora and Gheb are both town due to Tandora's claim. I could, perhaps, investigate Tandora to see if she's town or not. That could be helpful in the long run. That said, Tandora and I are both kill targets. Unlikely that someone else would be a kill toDay.

Current fabricated list:
Town assuming Tandora is town
15. Tandora
5. ronEEke
10. ChiboSempai (but posting enough to avoid prod)
9. Overswarm

LIkely town but possibly recruited:
14. GorditoBoy69 (Tandora did say she investigated him, right?)

Unknown

1. Gheb
6. Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra)
7. Edreesespieces
13. Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra)
11. Nix2100

That leaves 5. I'd be down for a Soviet Coffee lynch toDay. Edrees would work, but I consider him a stronger player in lyo situations so I might want to keep him around for that. Nix better suited as a vig kill imo, mod will have to kill him shortly anyway. Gheb is also strong, would rather see him investigated too.

It'd probably be one of those 5.


@MOD REQUEST PROD ON NIX

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm down for a SC or Chibo lynch toDay. Don't have a read on either of them that is consistent, so they fit the "recruited" category. It's a numbers game at the moment and we're probably going to hit town toDay. Better off to kill those we're completely unsure of, in my opinion, unless we find someone actually scummy.

Actually, I think it's a warning sign if there's somebody we're that unsure of that lynching him is the best solution. I find it hard to understand how this can be the case at this point of the game - two mafiosi have died already, we have a claimed cop with two players still alive and plenty of input from EE and yourself mainly.

And among that there are still people cruising along we don't know shit about. The only of these people who I get a town read on is Nix but I don't think it's a good idea to elaborate on why I think so. Either way, I think we should take a look at why we're unsure about these people [which I agree with] - if it's lack of input or connections then it's hardly justifiable on D3 with so much info swirling around.

I have blinders for RonEEke right now. It is in town's best interests to believe Tandora's claim until we can prove otherwise.

What do you mean by "prove otherwise"? Saying that implies that she's proven to be a townie, which is by no means the case. While I got town vibes from her anyways I'd like to remind you that it makes perfect sense for a recruited cop to claim on D3 to assure credibility [which she achieved either way] and also to stay safe from the assumed vote blocker. And of course, we - including herself - still don't know anything about her sanity either.

Yes, I believe that she is a cop. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't see why you put so much trust in her.

Actually you got at me pretty hardbody for finding Tandora suspicious because some of the things she was guilty of could be applied to Soviet Coffee. Meanwhile I'm whacking my head with a brick screaming I'M SUSPICIOUS OF HIM TOO DAMMIT GHEB YOU KNOW I DON'T PUSH MORE THAN ONE AT ONCE ARGH WHY ARE YOU DOIN ME LIKE THIS.

Ah yes, I remember it. Your explanation works though and you always tend to go after one target at a time; unless you're scum that is.

If Tan was recruited it was either RonEEke or Gorditoboy.

Elaborate?

I see a slight possible connection betweeen OS and Tan, both are claiming or giving info about their roles relatively at the same time. If they are a scum team, it's possible they planned both actions together. Not sure what to make of this, but I read them both suggesting to claim as somewhat of a connection right now. Also in post # 798 Overswarm mentions doing research on players but only inquires about the research on Tandora. Just looking into possible connections there.

The problem is that Overswarm has spent most of the time latching himself to somebody he has a town read on, asking to "become friends" or "hold hands". It's actually fairly obvious to see what he tries to achieve by doing so but I think I a smart player should've figured it out by now - and he did emphasize the number of strong players in this game. Either way, I'm fairly sure that he's town for doing what he's doing - which is why I never called him out for his "buddying".

I brought up the suggestion that she was recruited, so, we can keep that in mind, and if we myislynch the next 2 days and Tandora is still alive, we can lynch her then, and that will clear a bunch of town, or show us scum in 2 days.

2 mislynches are 4 dead townies and maybe a 5th if the assumed Vig / SK kills another townie. At that point we've lost the game already. That's a really hasty and risky suggestion that seems unlike the way you've been playing so far.

I think Gheb and Edrees need to comment on EE's case on me.

I think not. Neither of you is a play toDay in my eyes and unless you want me to repeat once more what has been said about 3 times already I don't see what you want me to tell you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Now, to the next issue.

@Gheb: Two scumpicks etc etc

I'm having a hard time making up my mind. Currently I think Chibo and Mad Scummy are the best plays toDay.

The "Chibo lurks as town argument is crap". It was exactly the same argument in FFVII Redux, where he - shoot-da-whoop - flipped scum. It was also the same argument in Pokemafia, where he - surprise, surprise - flipped scum too. And in case it's not enough it was also the same story in Disney Popstars where he -you guessed it - flipped scum.

One thing people don't seem to understand is that Chibo isn't just "lurking" - he's constantly been either lurking or inactive over the course of the whole game. If there's one player in this game I'm so unsure about [because of inactivity and lack of input] that I have no other choice than to consider his play as anti-town then it's by all means him.

The other pick for me is mad scummy. Before I go into detail on why, I'd like you [@EE] to take a close look at this one post:

Its not exactly top 2 picks, but here is my rundown of scumpicks

Chibo: I've been told he often lurks as town? I heard he got more useful towards the end of the game.. well from my personal perspective he has been not much more usefull than someone like Nix at the moment. I wouldn't ever put him as black and white scum, but I want something solid from him, he's a player who I have my eye on

Os: He is playing very different from the one scum game I have experienced of him, but then again that could come down to the players in that game, previously it was mainly newer players, now its much less so, especially at this stage. I would very much like to see what he says about RonEEke's case, if he deigns to post anything more on it. The way he is playing is so, so un-OS-like which has been worrying me since the start although I've not been able to put it into appropriate words, I don't think I can even explain it properly now. I am also perplexed about this possible role he might have.

[...]

These two posts intrigue me, not for the same reason RonEEke points them out, but more why would you post them then not follow up? why say: This is what I will do tomorrow and then not do it? Did you ever actually intend to go after gheb the next day or to explain your breadcrumbs?

OS + Gheb: These are the two players who I would recruit if I had a one-shot ability, its not a scum-tell but something to be wary of for both of them

Gheb + SC: Their wall arguements during D1 just makes me wonder about those two if one of them flips scum, something to keep an eye on

OS is probably top pick, Chibo most likely second. Like to hear more from town, specifically Chibo and EP

FYI: This hydra is kinda down to one head for most of the time but it shouldn't affect our presence in the game

Do you find this credible at all? It's very scummy to me and in case you don't see it, I can go into detail. First however I'm going to

Vote Chibo

Even if a Chibo lynch turns out to be unwarranted over the rest of the Day pressuring him is certainly not.

 

[Evil Eye]

Like that post, glad to get some proper substance. Gheb is not a play.

@Gheb: Two scumpicks etc etc

Doesn't have to be two plays, that kind of thinking can still wait a bit. If you're still dwelling on that, no problem, just don't take too long, heh.

 

[Evil Eye]

Yeah you would ninja me, wouldn't you.

 

[Evil Eye]

I'm disliking how MS went from active and bull-by-the-horns to lurking, and he seems far less confident. Most people take the gloves off in endgame, Mad Scummy put them back on. I considered him quite townie from D1-2 though, which is what's bothering me. I do agree with him that you and OS are the most likely recruits after D1 -- tied with Mad Scummy as well. In general MS just seems to be easier to boss around, less independent and proactive.

What's on your mind, Gheb? Other than that his post goes for two suspects and ends up spanning everyone except Nix and the Cop Trio?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

When I read that post the first thing I thought wasn't "oh that's whom *he* believes to be scum". It looks more like a summary of going after easy targets and following the flow. His points badly lack backing up:

Overwarm is playing unlike him?!? Where and how do you come to this conclusion? How many games have you played with him to know what's like and what's unlike him?
It bothered him from the start but he never mentioned it up to now? Because it was hard to put it in words? Sound more like he's trying to avoid posting a reason alltogether because ... he simply doesn't have one; except that it's a perfect opportunity to vote him right now.

Quite simply, I don't buy it. Neither do I buy the Chibo part because he fails to point out the similarity to Nix' play, which he apparently has no issues with [before you jump the gun: unlike him, I stated countless times - including the previous Day - that Nix is town in my eyes and I have a reason for it]. If Chibo's lurking bothers him, why not Nix'? I want to know what he thinks about what's happening and not to have him tell what people like to hear the most.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

unvote

@OS, now that you moreorless told us what your PR is, care to elaborate, more than just that it's similar to the cop? Or is it pretty much just an investigation role? Iirc, you say it's one shot. What's so powerful about the role that makes it one shot?

 

[CT Chia]

Overswarm why do you keep assuming Tandora is town? You've mentioned this multiple times, not just once or twice.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ninja'd...

Is it possible that recruitment has more priority than killing? Yes. If that's the case, I can picture Mad Scummy being the recruited player N2, mostly because of the reasoning listed above, with his being head strong D1 and D2, and his sudden change in play style D3.

 

[Evil Eye]

@OS: Don't answer Gordo's question unless revealing stuff like that wouldn't damage the effectiveness of your ability. I want to believe you have a reason for that ambiguity, though.

@Gordito: You seemed certain there was a recruiting on N1, before. What changed?

@Gheb: Thoughts on Soviet Coffee, Gordo and Ed?

 

[Nix2100]

In the hospital wth collapsed lung, v/la until a get out Monday

 

[Soviet Coffee]

Am I more qualified to answer this question than anybody else to have you ask me directly and not anybody else? Why would you think so?

Quite frankly cause I'm feeling considerably better about you atm and you’re a pretty good player so I’d like to hear your ideas on it.

I am only listed as town cop, but I really don't think I would be a variation in a game with a recruiter. Because if that was the case, I'd have to find Mentos and kick him in the teeth. =/

Then next step is to narrow down sanities.

You can't be paranoid, but we still have niave and insane to go through before your clears are absolute.

Plus deal with the recruit possibility.



RonEEke: Rather then respond to the entire thing piecemail, I’ll pick out your main points and respond to them, try to actually make a legit response to each rather then glossing over and grossy misrepresenting them please. I broke it up and made each small so you wouldn’t make that mistake… for the 4000th time.
1. If I was pushing for a Jungle lynch to protect Cheeze , why would I start pushing for jungle when everyone was targeting tandora?
2. If I got a dumbtown read, why wouldn’t I push against the lynch in favor of somebody that was more likely to be scum? More to the point, if you got a dumbtown read why didn’t YOU push against it?
3. Why flustered?
4. You have still yet to answer my responses to your clear misreads, why’d you say I voted for you when from context it was obvious I was proving I was voteblocked? Why’d you say I was dwelling on cheese as a possible recruit when I was clearly noting it as an unlikely possibility and moving on to other things?
5. You say I didn’t get reactions from my targets, which of my targets aren’t currently dead, posted semi-consistently at least for a time from my pressure, or replaced out? I had a number of targets IIRC.
6. Which of my “easy targets” didn’t deserve pressure?

Not at all, infract I was surprised no one called me out on it :/

If someone else hesitated to vote all day I would be a little wary of them.

Has SC's vote blockage been proven yet?



I like all of this and for a bit now I've been wanting to take a stab at SC. I didn't think however it would be possible to build much of a case and have support following it. Also to prove that I can vote now incase of anything idk,

Vote Soviet Coffee

But yea, I like that play for now

Easy wagon jump?


Also, check the vote tallies, you're skimming mad hard chibo.








@OS: I would think that you’d realize I wouldn’t fall for it cause I have a tendency to read you too well. Perhaps spending a night out for once would do your reading skills good [/joking jab]




I’ll do one better then just post that RonEEke, these are my reads, regardless of tandora’s sanity. For now I’m willing to follow the cop since sane seems the most likely given what we know of the setup and a second godfather is very unlikely, but here’s my base reads.
Yes this is ordered from towniest to scummiest.

No possible way they’re anything but town:
Soviet Coffee

Probably town:
OS
Tandora
Gheb

Null
Nix2100
Mad Scummy
Gordito

Probably Scum:
EdreesesPieces
Chibosempei
RonEEke



Written mostly on train, so current as of post 865 (last my open browser window had, and I didn’t have the time to trust myself to review later posts before work and between when my train arrived and class, so respond to later posts tonight).

 

[Evil Eye]

All that lurking and that's the best you've got? hahaha

Oh je m'excuse, monsieur, I forgot you decided to wait to post until you were on a train for some inexplicable reason.

@All: Thoughts on this latest post?

Note to everyone: If he flips scum I'm betting the other is in his "probably scum" pile, because he really needs the credibility.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Currently, I feel like Overswarm is trying very hard to deflect the attention on him onto someone else. I haven't seen him be this aggressive in finding a particular scum all game long, and suddenly he's making a bunch of moves, possible claim, and his activity is quite up. Let me address a few things:

Journal Entry, September 29th, 1:16 p.m.

I'm surprised and a little disappointed I myself haven't been Night Killed yet, as my ability would have helped tremendously if that had been the case. The breadcrumbs I have left have been deliberate. I wonder if I should claim my ability? I don't think scum can do anything about it now, and it will clear me and one of our choosing.

Journal Entry, September 30th, 2:30 p.m.

I too, can discover alignment. But only once. Deciding on who I want to see. How I can explain if you'd like. It is not the traditional way of doing things.

So yes, I am exempt from this. As is Tandora is, with her cop claim that isn't refuted. You can bluster all you want, but it changes nothing. We have nine people alive, two of which are blatantly inactive and others that are eeriely silent. You don't think it is odd that the two "cleared" players are doing all the work and no one else is really talking? They're hiding so they aren't questioned or seen.

Here's where I"m confused. You are worried about Gheb and myself being scum, but yet you claim that its the hiding and inactive people that are trying to avoid being questioned or seen. Which is it? Gheb and I are not inactive or lurking, Nix and Chibo are doing more of that, but you feel good about those two. I feel like you are saying too many different things all at the same time. So to answer your request of me commenting on EE's caes against you - I agree with it. EE's case against you - after reading it, I am more suspicious of you. I just feel like you are trying to deflect attention as well as saying too many different reads in different directions. It doesn't add up. I have a concern that it's just because I've never actually played a game with you, but for now I'm going to have to put aside meta since I don't have much on you and go with my gut read.

@Edreeses: Read on Chibo? On OS, now? Nix?

I feel Chibo is town. His case on tandora is there to flesh out information from here, and it looks to me like he's not blindly following her claim. I like that he's got his own opinion and not harboring his ideas with others. Gives me a town read. I feel Nix is probably town - he's real inactive so its hard to get any new info on him - but him being ganged up on Day 2 by 2 mafia makes me feel ok about him.

To respond to Gheb and OS - as for me suggesting to lynch Tandora in 2 days, it was merely an idea of why I think she can live now. Perhaps I explained it poorly, but what I meant is we always have that option later if we need it, if we are wondering whether she is recruited or not, so I'd prefer that she not be considered the play for Today. I still think that later in the game it could serve to help us to do something like that in order to confirm her results. Tell me - what is wrong bringing this possibility up?

the player who i agree is staying more in the shadows, and trying to reveal less and less as the game goes on is Mad Scummy. I do like that mad scummy says OS is the play for the day, but his post #872 I feel doesn't have enough substance from this game, a little too much meta. In addition toDay he's starting to suffer from the "only posts when prodded" syndrome that really bugs me. Not as strong as I feel about OS but I get scum vibes from him.

Plays for the day

1) Overswarm
2) Mad Scummy

 

[Soviet Coffee]

All that lurking and that's the best you've got? hahaha

Oh je m'excuse, monsieur, I forgot you decided to wait to post until you were on a train for some inexplicable reason.

@All: Thoughts on this latest post?

Note to everyone: If he flips scum I'm betting the other is in his "probably scum" pile, because he really needs the credibility.

*sigh*

See V/la thread, I'm running on 12 hour days mon-weds, and thursday happened to be one as well (though this is the exception not the rule thank God).


Lemme ask you this, have you seen any posts on this site? How about mafiascum? Sure there were visits cause I was trying to keep up, but my schedule's been impossible. I posted the same johns in my other swf game.


Train was literally the only break I had to write this.




Seriously man, if you're gonna say it was a bad faith effort, at least check the V/LA thread first.

 

[CT Chia]

I have experienced on numerous occasions that if someone asks a question scum will snap back at them and tell them to stop skimming and read when a townie will just answer...

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Gordito: You seemed certain there was a recruiting on N1, before. What changed?

I was almost 100% certain that YOU were recruited N1. I can see that being disproven, since Tandora's findings on me match up with my alignment, and because I liked your response toward my case on you. And, I didn't really notice a difference between Mad Scummy's play until it was brought up. Maybe, at the beginning, Swiss was doing most of the posting, and now, maybe X1's doing most of the posting. But I can't let that be a possibility, as it's a hydra.

 

[Evil Eye]

Since we've almost gone through the popcorn thing -- Gordito, two scumpicks.

@Chibo: Cite examples.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well, OS for reasons listed in my 862, and to a much lesser, but still valid, extent, Mad Scummy, for reasons mentioned in my 900.

 

[CT Chia]

Has SC's vote blockage been proven yet?

Also, check the vote tallies, you're skimming mad hard chibo.

10ledgesss

 

[Evil Eye]

Yeah, I meant examples from other games? In this game, where Soviet Coffee has not flipped, that's not particularly meaningful.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 1st, 1:10 a.m.

unvote vote Edrees

Edrees, if Mad Scummy was suddenyl killed and flipped scum, who would you want lynched?

 

[mentosman8]

Vote count

[2]Overswarm: Tandora, Edreesespieces
[1]ChiboSempai: Gheb_01
[1]Edreesespieces: Overswarm
[1]Tandora: ChiboSempai
[0]ronEEke:
[0]Nix2100:
[0]Soviet Coffee(AdumbroDeus/Shaya hydra):
[0]Gheb_01:
[0]GorditoBoy69:
[0]Mad Scummy (Swiss/X1-12 hydra):


[5]Not Voting: SovietCoffee, Mad Scummy, Nix2100, ronEEke, GorditoBoy69


A deadline is set for October 7, 2010 at 11:59PM CST.

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

September 30
ronEEke(10/1)
ChiboSempai
Gordito Boy
Soviet Coffee
Edreesespieces
Gheb_01
Overswarm
Tandora
Mad Scummy

September 29


September 28

Inactive

Noted V/LA
Nix(until Monday)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Journal Entry, October 1st, 1:10 a.m.

unvote vote Edrees

Edrees, if Mad Scummy was suddenyl killed and flipped scum, who would you want lynched?

Response to my 884?

To respond to Gheb and OS - as for me suggesting to lynch Tandora in 2 days, it was merely an idea of why I think she can live now. Perhaps I explained it poorly, but what I meant is we always have that option later if we need it, if we are wondering whether she is recruited or not.

But do we actually have that option to lynch her "later"? If one [or two if we take the assumed Vig / SK into account] of her results dies before we lynch her we're back to zero because the only reason I see we lynch her is to see the credibility of her results to begin with [and if she's recruited] but how much "later" is acceptable? Can you accurately tell us how many mafiosi are left, if there's an indy or another role that can change things?

Really, if you want to know about her results being credible then now would be the best time for her to die tbh. This is the only time where we can find out about her being recruited or not and about the accuracy of her investigations - anything later could be too late because we may not get as much info when we need it.

If you think she's recruited or not sane then lynching her now is better than later.

I still think that later in the game it could serve to help us to do something like that in order to confirm her results. Tell me - what is wrong bringing this possibility up?

1.) See above
2.) One of her investigations could've been recruited later. In fact, this happened to me in Boondock Saints Mafia, where the cop got an inno on me [I was survivor] but then I was "recruited" by the mafia and could ride my inno until the very end. The host of that game was mentosman btw, who happens to also be this game's mod. So if we lynch her and then see she's regular cop we may end up falsely clearing one of the investigated players who might've been recruited at a later point.

Quite frankly cause I'm feeling considerably better about you atm and you’re a pretty good player so I’d like to hear your ideas on it.

Fair enough. Unfortunately, I can't give you a "black or white" answer to this [but I think you would've expected nothing else] but I will try a logical approximation of the options. The first thing we know about the recruiting mechanics is the identity of the recruiter. Here we already run into a problem because the recruiter has been replaced after Night 1, which leaves the question who actually executed the recruitment unanswered. For all we know, Sir Bedevere's replacing could mean that he was not there during Night 1 to recruit somebody leading to the conclusion that Jungle was the one who had the final call. Then again I've been scum in mentos' first game so I know for a fact that he would also allow one of his scummates to send in the decision in such a case. So we have three options:

- Bedevere had the final call
- Jungle had the final call
- It was a collective final call

If it's the third option then we can't say much about it because we don't know the other people in the mafia, how strong or how influental they are so let's look at the other options...

Bedevere: He's rather inexperienced or at least he hasn't been playing in dGames too much. The players [in this game] he has finished complete games with are: Nix and Swords [Sonic Mafia] as well as Tandora, Overswarm, Adum and myself [MxC Mafia]. Swords is already dead so out of the remaining players he probably knows about Nix, Tandora, Overswarm, one half of SC and Gheb. All of them have a pretty good reputation in dGames so all of them woul be viable targets. From talking to him outside of the game he doesn't seem to like Hydras a lot though. Something to keep in mind.

Jungle: He knows who's who in dGames and he's been around for a while too. He could've recruited almost any player except those from the BBR, whom he knows little about [so I doubt he recruited EP]. Roneeke, Overswarm, Tandora, myself are all people he may want as scumbuddies; not opposed to hydras at all as far as I'm aware.

For these two the player pool of recruitees are kind of similar. You'll probably be disappointed by this as the answer to your question but here it is - nothing we didn't know before; just confirmation from my side.

@Gheb: Thoughts on Soviet Coffee, Gordo and Ed?

Soviet - Null read. I really like his reads on Chibo and Overswarm and am hoping that he's down for a Chibo wagon but I only started to like him recently. My earlier issues with him are well known and I also think he was somewhat trying to stay out of the spotlight too. Whether this has changed completely or just for now remains to be seen but I'm hoping it's the former. Up to that point he's in the "neutral" drawer for me.

Gordo - Not much to say here. I'm getting a pro-town vibe from him and I'd like to refer to his post [where he votes Overswarm] to compound as to why I don't like Mad Scummy. Just compare the ways they treat the Overswarm issue - it's not too hard to see that Gordo actually read through Overswarm's post and pointed out what he thought was wrong with it. That's exactly the kind of genuineness that Mad Scummy is lacking.

EP - Very unsure about him because of our recent conversation. I think his "plan" with Tandora is really bad but it may have just been miscommunication. For the moment, I'd rather wait and see where our exchange is leading to before I give my verdict on him. Especially since he gave me pro-town vibes most of the game up to now I'd be more than happy to see that I was simply getting him wrong.

 

[Tandora]

UNVOTE

I am still not a fan of OS, but his arguments feel like how a townie would present them.

Guys, if I had been recruited, why would I step in when I did to take pressure off Roneeke? It means you really think he is scum and it would have been in scum's interest to save him. It also means Ron and I were trying to bus each other. This is after the theory of Jungle and Cheese bussing Chibo and Nix with their constant vote pressures. Feels like a tour bus came through and ran over half the town. =/

As scum, I would have sat back and quietly let Gordito lead the charge against Ron. It would have been an easy and reasonable lynch. Why reveal my big PR except to try to clear two people I know are town and use our time more wisely? I could have just as easily turned town's attention to the recruited player idea instead of revealing a "fake" role if I were scum if I wanted to save a scummate. The indoctrinator has caused more fear and paranoia than anything else this game. I am not saying we shouldn't try to figure out who Jungle/Bedevere would have picked, but it shouldn't be our first line of thinking. We need to think of how people have played and if they suddenly went from town to scum.

Still assuming I was scum, do you really think I would have just announced I was cop without discussing it with my teammates first? Do you think whoever these theoretical teammates are would have approved? Whoever is left is really well hidden so they know how to stay under the radar. I am a huge target now, but I have also provided town with several cleared players. I could have easily claimed Praxis and Riddler as my investigations for the same reasons I actually picked Gordito and Roneeke. This would have given town nothing.

This is a matter of trust. I trust that Roneeke is 100% cleared because my role says he is. I had asked Mentos what my investigation was before the Night ended and he told me he couldn't give me any results until all night actions were in because that's how he mods. I would like to think if Ron had been flipped, Mentos would have told me guilty. Gordito I am 90% certain, but he would have been a better recruitment because so many people had said he was town.

Look at the facts, not the possibilities.
1) I'm cop with no reason to question my sanity. I posted my character since I don't know Bioware games. If there was a chance my character was loony, I would have hoped someone would have said so by now.
2) My two investigations are alive.
3) Nix and Chibo were very, very hard pushed by the two dead scum.

These are five people I will not vote for.

I trust OS was telling the truth about his role and ability.

It comes down to trust. You can either trust that I am telling the truth and my ability works and follow my clues. Or you can doubt me and/or my ability. If that is the case, then just vote me off. If I cannot be seen as a reliable resource after my claim (my very strong claim), I am mudding the waters and bogging down real scum hunting.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 1st, 8:39 a.m.

It's been a running joke in the BBR that Praxis always dies on the first Day. He died first day this game. I'm pretty sure a BBR member was behind that one.

Looking at Praxis' posts for other possibilities, the only one that really stood out to me was Edrees.

Edrees, I searched the thread and gave you a re-read, and I retract my comments. I guess it's just an impression I had after your V/LA period; you jumped on Swords and Chibo after you came back from your trip, and it seemed sudden. Thanks for the clarification.

Anyone seen Soviet Coffee? His last post in this thread was just over 48 hours ago.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, October 1st, 9:35 a.m.

I wonder what Tandora hears.... that they aren't or are mafia, or what their alignment is?

 

[Soviet Coffee]

Well, OS for reasons listed in my 862, and to a much lesser, but still valid, extent, Mad Scummy, for reasons mentioned in my 900.

Yeah, I meant examples from other games? In this game, where Soviet Coffee has not flipped, that's not particularly meaningful.

Unexpected.


*Notes*




Regardless I want answers to my objections on your case if you plan on continuing to suspect me heavily, especially in regards to the circumstances surrounding the cheeze lynch.

Well, OS for reasons listed in my 862, and to a much lesser, but still valid, extent, Mad Scummy, for reasons mentioned in my 900.

Response to my 884?



But do we actually have that option to lynch her "later"? If one [or two if we take the assumed Vig / SK into account] of her results dies before we lynch her we're back to zero because the only reason I see we lynch her is to see the credibility of her results to begin with [and if she's recruited] but how much "later" is acceptable? Can you accurately tell us how many mafiosi are left, if there's an indy or another role that can change things?

Really, if you want to know about her results being credible then now would be the best time for her to die tbh. This is the only time where we can find out about her being recruited or not and about the accuracy of her investigations - anything later could be too late because we may not get as much info when we need it.

If you think she's recruited or not sane then lynching her now is better than later.

Thinking about her sanity, wouldn't it be better to confirm sanity via results and flips? For example, get one guilty she can't be niave and from there any one flip of her targets will tell us whether she's sane or insane, especially since given the circumstances, odds are she's sane.

1.) See above
2.) One of her investigations could've been recruited later. In fact, this happened to me in Boondock Saints Mafia, where the cop got an inno on me [I was survivor] but then I was "recruited" by the mafia and could ride my inno until the very end. The host of that game was mentosman btw, who happens to also be this game's mod. So if we lynch her and then see she's regular cop we may end up falsely clearing one of the investigated players who might've been recruited at a later point.

We only have one potential recruiter.


The only way the RonEEke result could be incorrect because of this is if:

1. He got recruited N2
2. Recruiter outprioritizes vig kills.
3. Cop tells alignment before night actions are taken into account.

Fair enough. Unfortunately, I can't give you a "black or white" answer to this [but I think you would've expected nothing else] but I will try a logical approximation of the options. The first thing we know about the recruiting mechanics is the identity of the recruiter. Here we already run into a problem because the recruiter has been replaced after Night 1, which leaves the question who actually executed the recruitment unanswered. For all we know, Sir Bedevere's replacing could mean that he was not there during Night 1 to recruit somebody leading to the conclusion that Jungle was the one who had the final call. Then again I've been scum in mentos' first game so I know for a fact that he would also allow one of his scummates to send in the decision in such a case. So we have three options:

- Bedevere had the final call
- Jungle had the final call
- It was a collective final call

If it's the third option then we can't say much about it because we don't know the other people in the mafia, how strong or how influental they are so let's look at the other options...

Bedevere: He's rather inexperienced or at least he hasn't been playing in dGames too much. The players [in this game] he has finished complete games with are: Nix and Swords [Sonic Mafia] as well as Tandora, Overswarm, Adum and myself [MxC Mafia]. Swords is already dead so out of the remaining players he probably knows about Nix, Tandora, Overswarm, one half of SC and Gheb. All of them have a pretty good reputation in dGames so all of them woul be viable targets. From talking to him outside of the game he doesn't seem to like Hydras a lot though. Something to keep in mind.

Jungle: He knows who's who in dGames and he's been around for a while too. He could've recruited almost any player except those from the BBR, whom he knows little about [so I doubt he recruited EP]. Roneeke, Overswarm, Tandora, myself are all people he may want as scumbuddies; not opposed to hydras at all as far as I'm aware.

For these two the player pool of recruitees are kind of similar. You'll probably be disappointed by this as the answer to your question but here it is - nothing we didn't know before; just confirmation from my side.

Fair enough, it's appreciated.


Anyone striking you as playing oddly in a possible recruit fashion that fits either class?


As far as the chibo wagon, he seems like a reasonable choice atm, he keeps backing off whenever he's not being called and he has yet to make a legitimate effort to really be involved in the game (practically non-existant last game day), also the fact that he didn't mention the voteblock is odd. He also seems extremely opportunistic, eager to jump on the easiest wagon.



@Tandora, you make a fair point with Nix, but I did a reread of the interactions between chibo, jungle, and cheeze and frankly I don't see a strong enough push to consider chibo cleared, worst he got was a FoS from cheeze and Jungle didn't seem to target him signifigantly at all.






Since I put him in the probably scum category and have yet to put thoughts on him...

Thoughts on Edrees:

He has a talent for saying townie-seeming stuff without making a large impression which he exploits as scum as opposed to his much more aggressive town meta (see CT Mafia prior to being recruited), and he seems to be following his scum meta to a T.


So I wanna hear more from him, a lot more.



Let's start with what I did

@Edrees: Could I get a complete list of your reads as of right now?




Os' recent stuff is... odd, I need to digest it. Still as far as the cheeze thing, I very much doubt that OS would support jungle's lynch to save cheeze, cheeze is too weak of a player and OS would be glad to be rid of him as a scummate, even if he was a godfather.

 

[Soviet Coffee]

EBWOP: Gordito was not supposed to be quoted in that post.

 

[Mad Scummy]

I'm disliking how MS went from active and bull-by-the-horns to lurking, and he seems far less confident. Most people take the gloves off in endgame, Mad Scummy put them back on. I considered him quite townie from D1-2 though, which is what's bothering me. I do agree with him that you and OS are the most likely recruits after D1 -- tied with Mad Scummy as well. In general MS just seems to be easier to boss around, less independent and proactive.

As I'm sure OS, if not more of you, have realised, its just X1 playing this game recently, Swiss' laptop is broken, meaning all the 'Swissish' posts are gone, I'm also not getting advice on how to play the game so I'm just toughing it out as myself

When I read that post the first thing I thought wasn't "oh that's whom *he* believes to be scum". It looks more like a summary of going after easy targets and following the flow. His points badly lack backing up:

Overwarm is playing unlike him?!? Where and how do you come to this conclusion? How many games have you played with him to know what's like and what's unlike him?
It bothered him from the start but he never mentioned it up to now? Because it was hard to put it in words? Sound more like he's trying to avoid posting a reason alltogether because ... he simply doesn't have one;

In my, admittedly somewhat limited experience, OS is not one to sit on the sidelines, ever. Do you disagree?

except that it's a perfect opportunity to vote him right now.

I didn't vote for him? Read more carefully

Quite simply, I don't buy it. Neither do I buy the Chibo part because he fails to point out the similarity to Nix' play, which he apparently has no issues with [before you jump the gun: unlike him, I stated countless times - including the previous Day - that Nix is town in my eyes and I have a reason for it]. If Chibo's lurking bothers him, why not Nix'? I want to know what he thinks about what's happening and not to have him tell what people like to hear the most.

Swiss seems to think Chibo is town, but I'm inclined to disagree and I can't get more out of him about this now.

Nix is a noob, I am certain we are looking for atleast one very experienced player, Nix is not that player. Lynching him is not a priority and I highly doubt the veteran scum player is stupid enough to have made connections with Nix, so his flip won't help us much. Perhaps our vig can take care of him.

 

[Mad Scummy]

UNVOTE
Guys, if I had been recruited, why would I step in when I did to take pressure off Roneeke? It means you really think he is scum and it would have been in scum's interest to save him. It also means Ron and I were trying to bus each other. This is after the theory of Jungle and Cheese bussing Chibo and Nix with their constant vote pressures. Feels like a tour bus came through and ran over half the town. =/

As scum, I would have sat back and quietly let Gordito lead the charge against Ron. It would have been an easy and reasonable lynch. Why reveal my big PR except to try to clear two people I know are town and use our time more wisely? I could have just as easily turned town's attention to the recruited player idea instead of revealing a "fake" role if I were scum if I wanted to save a scummate. The indoctrinator has caused more fear and paranoia than anything else this game. I am not saying we shouldn't try to figure out who Jungle/Bedevere would have picked, but it shouldn't be our first line of thinking. We need to think of how people have played and if they suddenly went from town to scum.

Still assuming I was scum, do you really think I would have just announced I was cop without discussing it with my teammates first? Do you think whoever these theoretical teammates are would have approved? Whoever is left is really well hidden so they know how to stay under the radar. I am a huge target now, but I have also provided town with several cleared players. I could have easily claimed Praxis and Riddler as my investigations for the same reasons I actually picked Gordito and Roneeke. This would have given town nothing.

I really don't like this, there is so much WIFOM in it, for example in community mafia OS was trying to get us to lynch roxy instead of SwordsRbroken and after Swords' scum flip I pointed out that OS could be defending his scumbuddy, to which he said "Why would I do that? I bus my scummates in literally EVERY game, why would I try and save someone like that?" but nonetheless OS won the game as scum

Journal Entry, October 1st, 8:39 a.m.

It's been a running joke in the BBR that Praxis always dies on the first Day. He died first day this game. I'm pretty sure a BBR member was behind that one.

Has this ever been mentioned outside the BBR? I think so. Any clever player could have used this to get you to incriminate BBR players. So much WIFOM in here, what was the point of this post?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Journal Entry, October 1st, 1:10 a.m.

unvote vote Edrees

Edrees, if Mad Scummy was suddenly killed and flipped scum, who would you want lynched?

I made a list of my plays for the day, and you are on top of it. So you'd be the top candidate to by lyched, but I'd have to analyse who pushed for his lynch, who tried to move away from it, and it would help me possibly come up with a better candidate.

I could re evaluate my opinion of you if you actually respond to my last post - why do your 2 statements about your ability not match up with each other? Either your ability would have helped if you got NK last night, or your ability helps if you investigate someone now and aren't lynched. It has to be one, but you said both. Instead of answering my perfectly reasonable qualm about your logic, you respond asking me more without first addressing my questions.

Ask yourself if I've actually said anything scummy. Think about the people I've pushed to be lynched and said were suspicious. Don't pick me just because I'm typically a very townie scum. I admit that my suggestion about lynching Tandora is pretty bad, but in my head it seemed like a good backup plan at the time. I see most people are against it and I'm not gonna push for something if that many people feel it is a bad idea, especially when I only meant it as a suggestion, not a proposed plan.

Overswarm I'd appeciate if you actually did address the points in my last post. Why does your story about your ability not add up? Your case on me is based on meta that I'm playing pro town, one bad suggestion of possible plan to take, and Praxis saying he wants to hear more from me. Also, I responded to that post by Praxis and here's what he responded with:

Edrees, I searched the thread and gave you a re-read, and I retract my comments. I guess it's just an impression I had after your V/LA period; you jumped on Swords and Chibo after you came back from your trip, and it seemed sudden. Thanks for the clarification.

Anyone seen Soviet Coffee? His last post in this thread was just over 48 hours ago.

Gheb and Roneeke - my response to your thoughts on the Tandora in the paragraph above - it was a suggestion, and I thought it might be a good backup plan. I didn't think to think it out carefully and didn't realize the game would have been over by then. I'm not gonna push or suggest it if most of town is against it and on top of that wouldn't even work.

Soviet - my reads on everyone:

Tandora/RonEeke : I read Tandora as town, and RonEEke has stepped it up late this day to give me a very pro town vibe. I had major scum vibes from RonEeke the first two Days, and I put them together because no matter what read I get on RonEEke, Tandora's is the one that matters more as she claims cop investigation innocent on Ron.

Gordito - Don't really have a good read on him but he's "cleared" by Tandora. He may have bene recruited but I don't see any changes in playstyle. Asks a lot of questions. he can live.

Overswarm - Trying very hard to deflect any negative attention, originally brought on by RonEeke, and joined by me, away from him. Also gave an inconsistent story that doesn't match up on his "claim." I get a scummy read from him.

Mad Scummy - Brings up good points, but can't help but feel he shows up only when the time is right and when mentioned or requested. More about his behavior in this light than what he says Slight scum read.

Nix - Already posted my thoughts on him recently, hasn't changed.

Chibo - I feel pretty certain he's town. Not too helpful but says good things when he contributes. Has a mind of his own and doesn't try to blend in or dodge attention. I like that he reminded everyone Tandora could have been recruited despite everyone still going away from that. Didn't try to go with the crowd. I look for a few things in scum - going with the flow, and trying to find someone weaker than them to take the heat, and inconcistent logic/stories that don't add up. I don't see chibo doing any of this. He's pretty inactive and dissapears but I think it's at random times, and i thikn his IRL issues of being busy are legit.

Gheb - He can live. I get some town vibes, some null. His last post was excellent.

Soviet Coffee - Behavior has changed but I think it's because Shaya's been busy and it's only adumb posting now, not because of a recruit. A little more aggressive than previosu Days but I think we all are including myself. I like your points about RonEEke, and your defense is solid - you don't base it on anything vague (like Overswarm has been doing) but on real hard facts - who you pushed for lynch, who you tried to save, the whole cheez/jungle affair. And as I already stated scum would not recruit you right after Day 2 when people could make a case on you for calling Cheez dumbtown, they'd pick someone not so "vulnerable" to be wagoned. Slight town read.

 

[Evil Eye]

Thinking about her sanity, wouldn't it be better to confirm sanity via results and flips? For example, get one guilty she can't be niave and from there any one flip of her targets will tell us whether she's sane or insane, especially since given the circumstances, odds are she's sane.

Odds are the cop is a cop, and sane. Your words.

The only way the RonEEke result could be incorrect because of this is if:

1. He got recruited N2
2. Recruiter outprioritizes vig kills.
3. Cop tells alignment before night actions are taken into account.

So you think the cop is both legit and sane, and therefore this is the only the result on me can be incorrect. And yet I'm on your scum list? You actually think this is likely? Recruiter outprioritizing a kill by vig or SK is bull ****, it rewards a faction that obviously made a mistake of some kind, because someone decided to kill the recruiter. There shouldn't be consolation prizes in situations like that.

Furthermore, I can't help but narrow my eyes at the fact that I'm on your scum list at all, because the actual meat of your case has focused on D2, during which you have now implicitly admitted I must not have been scum. As for D3, all you've done is repeatedly accuse me of skimming and try to condescend me into a corner, and upon seeing this I decided to pursue other leads, because we were getting nowhere fast.

All in all this is pretty god **** inconsistent. Explain yourself, and maybe then I'll explain myself to you.

 

[Evil Eye]

@OS: Would you be willing to accept an investigation pool of, say, three people going into Night 3? It's a low enough number to get a better focus for D4, but a high enough number that odds are strongly against mafia being able to ninja your investigation.

 

[Overswarm]

Journal Entry, Oct. 1st, 4:51 p.m.

I could re evaluate my opinion of you if you actually respond to my last post - why do your 2 statements about your ability not match up with each other? Either your ability would have helped if you got NK last night, or your ability helps if you investigate someone now and aren't lynched. It has to be one, but you said both. Instead of answering my perfectly reasonable qualm about your logic, you respond asking me more without first addressing my questions.

It seems to me that Edrees doesn't understand how to fill in an informational gap. Obviously there's more to my ability than "one shot investigation".

@OS: Would you be willing to accept an investigation pool of, say, three people going into Night 3? It's a low enough number to get a better focus for D4, but a high enough number that odds are strongly against mafia being able to ninja your investigation.

If everyone gave their own pool and I took the most popular, than yes. I think this would be a good idea.

 

[Soviet Coffee]

Odds are the cop is a cop, and sane. Your words.



So you think the cop is both legit and sane, and therefore this is the only the result on me can be incorrect. And yet I'm on your scum list? You actually think this is likely? Recruiter outprioritizing a kill by vig or SK is bull ****, it rewards a faction that obviously made a mistake of some kind, because someone decided to kill the recruiter. There shouldn't be consolation prizes in situations like that.

Furthermore, I can't help but narrow my eyes at the fact that I'm on your scum list at all, because the actual meat of your case has focused on D2, during which you have now implicitly admitted I must not have been scum. As for D3, all you've done is repeatedly accuse me of skimming and try to condescend me into a corner, and upon seeing this I decided to pursue other leads, because we were getting nowhere fast.

All in all this is pretty god **** inconsistent. Explain yourself, and maybe then I'll explain myself to you.

Am I actually pushing a case on you? Am I trying to get you lynched?


No, I very obviously said that I am willing to follow the cop while we are waiting on confirmation on tandora's sanity, and this means that the mistakes you make are just that, mistakes unless the situation changes. Still, I have an inherent distrust of non confirmed sane cops, so I will note what you do that I find scummy.


Now, you say all I did was accuse you of skimming, so where's your response to the evidence that you DID EXACTLY THAT? Where's your responses to the evidence that I pushed for jungle's lynch to protect tandora, and just stuck with my wagon cause I thought cheeze was dumbtown?


Essentially put up or shut up, take off the blinders and try looking at the actual evidence rather then your likes and dislikes and maybe then I won't have such a nagging suspicion of you in spite of your apparent confirmed town status.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Journal Entry, October 1st, 8:39 a.m.

It's been a running joke in the BBR that Praxis always dies on the first Day. He died first day this game. I'm pretty sure a BBR member was behind that one.

I'm fine if you suspect me for my play, that's totally acceptable. Suspecting me because I'm in the BBR and it's a joke that he dies Day 1 is a horrible reason. And here's why.

Below are two posts, in DGAMES SOCIAL THREAD, of praxis telling everyone his little "issue" of always dying Day 1.

Thus, anyone in Dgames could know about it.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11188915&postcount=3195

Pretty sure I'm the new Frozenflame.

I always die N1, even if I'm scum; the serial killer'll get me. >=(

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11188915#post11188915

Dangit I died D1. AGAIN.

You need to get off this whole BBR thing and expand your scumsearch to anyone thats playing scummy. Everyone here had the potential of knowing the Praxis thing. I wasn't sure of it myself until I did my homework just now and found these posts.