sephirothryu
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 12
What are the best charecters to have as backup for someone who plays marth? Like to counter weaknesses and such.
Thanks.
Thanks.
-
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Best Other Charecters for a marth main.
- Thread starter sephirothryu
- Start date
balladechina212
Smash Ace
Sheik
Easy to pick up and counters the entire low tier.
Easy to pick up and counters the entire low tier.
DuKe™
Smash Journeyman
the entire high and top tier and maybe C Falcon
I advise learning with characters that take a high amount of technical knowledge or else you're going to be in the dust when it comes to that point in gameplay. If you're considering picking someone to counter Marth, you're best off picking a character like Fox and learning him inside and out. Fox done properly is such a pain to noobs.
If you're just going for the thrill of it and not trying to advance in the game, then sheik is probably a good choice. I got bored with Sheik after a few rounds. The most fun character in the game in my opinion is Peach and you can give marth some problems with turnips but unfortuntely, peach is a bit slow.
If you're just going for the thrill of it and not trying to advance in the game, then sheik is probably a good choice. I got bored with Sheik after a few rounds. The most fun character in the game in my opinion is Peach and you can give marth some problems with turnips but unfortuntely, peach is a bit slow.
sephirothryu
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 12
I know all the technical knowledge, I diden't say I was a n00b.
Brightside6382
Smash Lord
I would think Falcon would be a horrible choice as a secondary to a Marth. There is no matchup that I can think of where Marth would just outright be a better choice over Falcon.
fox. he has an easier time against shiek. who else do you need? i can't play fox though, my fingers don't move that fast.
i wanna try using peach too, she's so different from marth, i think it could work out as a good compliment.
pretty much all the top/high tier counters the whole low tier, so that's not really a big plus. if you want to isolate the top tier, if you have a knack for ICs, you're gold.
i wanna try using peach too, she's so different from marth, i think it could work out as a good compliment.
pretty much all the top/high tier counters the whole low tier, so that's not really a big plus. if you want to isolate the top tier, if you have a knack for ICs, you're gold.
everyone is different from marth. him and peach are the only two non fast characters in the upper teir. depends on you really. i use sheik and falco for seconds you may want to use samus or even some lower teir never count them out some people can truely shine with low teir.
ChaosKnight
Smash Master
for a marth main i would say fox and maybe a gannon lol but get that fox up to your maths level and then work on gannon
sephirothryu
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 12
Meh I decided to go with sheik and Falco. Never a big fox fan =p
(and since all we play at school is 2v2's the lasers help.
(and since all we play at school is 2v2's the lasers help.
UMBC Super Smasher
Smash Lord
lol this game requires quick fingers, so I suggest you make them fingers move faster or you'll never be able to do a SHDF with marth or a short hopped drill shine to waveshine to smash attack.
Learn marth, fox, falco, and sheik. Knowing them covers everything.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
UMBC nothing you said could be truer. Wait, IC's could be important also.
Marth/Falco Pro
Smash Lord
I'd say Fox to counter Shiek and others. Even Ken said almost all good Marth's have a Fox as a secondary at his biweeklies, to me, it was surprisingly true (atleast to me) I just think Fox is a great secondary, he never fails as a counterpick.
spoonyd
Smash Apprentice
Learning Fox alone covers so much technical ground and really speeds up your ability on the buttons. Marth utilizes technical things too obviously but learning Fox really opens you up to how much is REALLY out there. I definitely suggest Fox to broaden your SSBM knowledge.
MuBa
Smash Lord
I'd say Fox is a good character to learn in general. I've gotten sooo much better at L-Canceling because of him. Those Drillshine SHFFL did make my Doc better I will admit that.
Massive
Smash Champion
Jigglypuff.
Jiggs is a reasonably good counterpick against the characters Marth may have trouble with.
A good WoP technique can be carried over into some very, very nasty fair spam as well.
It's also good to learn the physics of floaties because they can give Marth some trouble if you're unprepared.
Jiggs is a reasonably good counterpick against the characters Marth may have trouble with.
A good WoP technique can be carried over into some very, very nasty fair spam as well.
It's also good to learn the physics of floaties because they can give Marth some trouble if you're unprepared.
This is completely true, considering he is a top tier. Knowing Fox helps you out with any character.
Rickety
Peace and Love
My two pennies. :]
Marth/Sheik
Pros:
- Very easy to use, more mindgame-oriented.
Cons:
- Matchup wise, No advantage against Falco (though Marth vs Falco is generally regarded as even), and a great Fox Player will defeat a great Marth/Sheik player.
Marth/Fox
Pros:
- This has proven to be a winning combination for the World Champion, Ken.
- You have a solution to that nasty Sheik weakness.
Cons:
- Again, no outright advantage over Falco.
Marth/Falco
Pros:
- You have an answer for Sheik and an ever-so-slight advantage against Fox.
Cons:
- Falco isn't as great an answer to Sheik as Fox is (though it's still in his favor)
Hope this helps :]
Marth/Sheik
Pros:
- Very easy to use, more mindgame-oriented.
Cons:
- Matchup wise, No advantage against Falco (though Marth vs Falco is generally regarded as even), and a great Fox Player will defeat a great Marth/Sheik player.
Marth/Fox
Pros:
- This has proven to be a winning combination for the World Champion, Ken.
- You have a solution to that nasty Sheik weakness.
Cons:
- Again, no outright advantage over Falco.
Marth/Falco
Pros:
- You have an answer for Sheik and an ever-so-slight advantage against Fox.
Cons:
- Falco isn't as great an answer to Sheik as Fox is (though it's still in his favor)
Hope this helps :]
FlowingEdge
Smash Rookie
I'm not too sure about it but why not get good with mostly all characters while your at it...well, all the ones that go anti something. If marth gets counter by a specific and the starfox team, fox or falco, one of them has the answer, I'd say learn both, after all, never hurts to learn more then a limited amount of characters. As far as secondaries go, go with fox, he was easiest for me to get used to.
Randizzle
Smash Ace
I think that picking up either (or both) space animals is a good idea for a backup since they handle most of marth's more difficult matchups (shiek is the main matchup that comes to mind). Also, I completely agree that picking up fox really speeds up your technical game and broadens your general smash knowledge.
I usually find myself playing one of the space animals, falcon, or shiek when my marth isn't doing well.
I usually find myself playing one of the space animals, falcon, or shiek when my marth isn't doing well.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
If you REALLY need to have a secondary, fox is the one to pick. maybe its just my area in the midwest, but everyone knows how to play and win against falcos who are technical(as many of you say above this should be the main reason why you pick a secondary). Pick fox, hes the best character in the game.
Rickety, you had some very good points about sheik and falco, but to see you say fox is at a slight disadvantage i just don't agree with you, if a fox doesn't play as well against falco he obviously doesn't know the matchup very well.
Also, don't pick sheik, if your having problems AGAINST sheik WITH marth, then just practice the matchup more, honestly, sheik is for sure a 60/40 cp to marth, but sheik has flaws in her game as well against marth. Besides, who honestly wants to sheik ditto? those are the gayest matches and the sheik main will probably dominate you.
the main reason to pick fox is he goes even with all characters as far as sheik and falco, and he will dominate a sheik or falco who don't know the matchup(shinespikes ftw) that and he requires the most technical skill in the game so that will make sure that your tech skill is up to par.
Rickety, you had some very good points about sheik and falco, but to see you say fox is at a slight disadvantage i just don't agree with you, if a fox doesn't play as well against falco he obviously doesn't know the matchup very well.
Also, don't pick sheik, if your having problems AGAINST sheik WITH marth, then just practice the matchup more, honestly, sheik is for sure a 60/40 cp to marth, but sheik has flaws in her game as well against marth. Besides, who honestly wants to sheik ditto? those are the gayest matches and the sheik main will probably dominate you.
the main reason to pick fox is he goes even with all characters as far as sheik and falco, and he will dominate a sheik or falco who don't know the matchup(shinespikes ftw) that and he requires the most technical skill in the game so that will make sure that your tech skill is up to par.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
False. Close tho.
Shai Hulud
Smash Lord
Ice Climbers, without a doubt.
The only matchups that should be difficult for Marth are vs. Falco and Sheik, and Ice Climbers **** both. Also Ice Climbers are good against pretty much everybody except Peach, Samus, Marth, and Jiggs, so if your opponent is accustomed to fighting Marths just go ICs.
The only matchups that should be difficult for Marth are vs. Falco and Sheik, and Ice Climbers **** both. Also Ice Climbers are good against pretty much everybody except Peach, Samus, Marth, and Jiggs, so if your opponent is accustomed to fighting Marths just go ICs.
UMBC Super Smasher
Smash Lord
hmmm that's interesting. I have never considered playing ICs as a secondary since they are kind of a specialty character. I know I can't use them well at all against good players, and it seems only a few people (in my area such as ChuDat, Blues and Meep) can use them right.
D
Deleted member
Guest
sheik is the best char in the game guys, sorry. marth is a close 2nd tho.
marth/ICs covers everyone but everyone @ tournaments will hate you.
marth/ICs covers everyone but everyone @ tournaments will hate you.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^They could take out their frustration on Nana^
I'd say you should go with either Fox or Falco. They both improve your technical skill and make you accustomed to a faster pace of gameplay. After playing with Falco for a while I noticed that my offensive game was getting better so I went with him.
I'd say you should go with either Fox or Falco. They both improve your technical skill and make you accustomed to a faster pace of gameplay. After playing with Falco for a while I noticed that my offensive game was getting better so I went with him.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
It's funny cuz when I asked you if I should second IC's while I main Marth, you said
"Yeah if you wanna get shot"
IC's kill sheik, Marth's main bad matchup, and one of his only. In my personal opinion, I like Marth vs sheik. I like marth vs anyone. I think Marth vs sheik is difficult, but not impossible, and Switching to IC's may be easier than using Marth against shiek, but I would rather stay with Marth, honestly. It forces you to play smarter, and honestly makes you a better player. The main reason for Marth's having a secondary is cuz of Sheik's, and at very high levels of play Marth loses to sheik on average, but it can be done. Mew2king's marth beat KDJ's sheik at Cataclysm, and there's no higher level of play than Mew2king and KDJ.
Shai Hulud
Smash Lord
I think Falco is an easy IC matchup as well. Falco has trouble getting close to start shine combos because ICs can grab him if he doesn't L-cancel properly, and the timing is different when he hits two shields. Also, ICs can wavesmash Falco to death on small stages around 30 - 40%. And his lasers are pretty useless since ICs can just spam Ice Blocks, which go underneath lasers and do more damage. Trading damage is definitely in ICs favor anyway, as damage is a less meaningful yardstick for ICs than other characters. The only thing that really matters with ICs is keeping them together.
Husband
Smash Lord
Ive been around for a while and let me put it to you this way.
Not many ppl Main Marth - Ken, Neo and Husband
All the other Ranked players that use Marth only use him in certain match-ups. This is because Marth is EXTREMELY match up based. Every Match up with him is different and thats why he takes so long to learn. But if you master him, he is the best character in this game -> Ken.
SO, you have to find where your bad match ups are and pick a character that is good at that match up.
If you watch DJ you will see that he uses marth vs some characters like IC but then he switches to Sheik when he is facing a Marth. So he found that he wasnt good againts IC with sheik or fox so he went marth to beat them.
If you already have a Marth but you are having trouble vs Sheik, try a falco. If you are having trouble vs Peach, try a sheik. If the Marios are getting to you, try Dorf. So it all depends on what your problem is
Not many ppl Main Marth - Ken, Neo and Husband
All the other Ranked players that use Marth only use him in certain match-ups. This is because Marth is EXTREMELY match up based. Every Match up with him is different and thats why he takes so long to learn. But if you master him, he is the best character in this game -> Ken.
SO, you have to find where your bad match ups are and pick a character that is good at that match up.
If you watch DJ you will see that he uses marth vs some characters like IC but then he switches to Sheik when he is facing a Marth. So he found that he wasnt good againts IC with sheik or fox so he went marth to beat them.
If you already have a Marth but you are having trouble vs Sheik, try a falco. If you are having trouble vs Peach, try a sheik. If the Marios are getting to you, try Dorf. So it all depends on what your problem is
Aesir
Smash Master
I main marth but I suck at this game.
basically my secondary is link LOL as you can tell I hate sheik too.
in reality I actually use marth vs sheik a lot. >_>
but yeah listen to husband hes usually right.
basically my secondary is link LOL as you can tell I hate sheik too.
in reality I actually use marth vs sheik a lot. >_>
but yeah listen to husband hes usually right.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
marth secondary? fox, HANDS DOWN. why not tier *****?
let's take a closer look at the more challenging matchups for marth:
sheik: one of the few characters that can actually get inside marth's range. combos are effortless for her. those grabs and slaps absolutely scream anti-marth. it's not impossible, i guess. ken can do it. other than that, this matchup is a ***** for marth. fox = the only legit counter pick against sheik. and it's not even a real advantage... it's just a good matchup.
fox: what do you expect, no one counters fox. certain players have good enough foxes (chillin, mew2king, taj) that force ken to resort to fox dittos. that's all i have to say, really. i've heard that marth vs fox is one of the most even and critically important matchups in the game. it has decided many tournaments. so have marth dittos and fox dittos.
falco: another character that can easily get inside marth. basically a gimp and combo fest. like fox, there are no true counter picks to falco (except maybe ice climbers.) marth vs falco and fox vs falco are basically the same difficulty with different techniques being used. and hey, some find fox vs falco easier.
falcon: another character that can get inside due to speed. fox has an undisputed advantage over him... sorta. falcons are gimp-maniacs, so expect to be tech-chase *****. but no matter what happens, we all still know that fox's advantage exists and there must be away to find it.
more unorthodox anti-marths:
peach: turnips and priority can destroy the misconception of marth's advantage over peach. wife and mikael have shown this very clearly. however, fox's style forces peach to play differently. needless to say, most peach players have trouble against either one or the other. might as well know both.
game&watch: whoever doesn't know that he does well against marth doesn't know much about low tiers. nearly equal range, longer hitboxes duration-wise, disjointed at that. he'll give marth a lot of danger. fox, not so much. the danger is still there, but fox can get inside. (sheik is a better choice here, though.)
sheik and falco are also both great secondaries to marth. but if you're gonna tier *****, why not pick the highest one? for the greatest influence, i can look to none other than ken to make a proper decision.
another interesting observation: people who use marth as a secondary will normally show major influence from use of their main.
for example:
"sheik-marths" have amazing tech chasing skills.
"falcon-marths" are usually combo machines
"fox-marths" are gimpy
and etc. these are only generalizations, but videos can show you how true some of them can be.
omg wh*re is censored :'C
let's take a closer look at the more challenging matchups for marth:
sheik: one of the few characters that can actually get inside marth's range. combos are effortless for her. those grabs and slaps absolutely scream anti-marth. it's not impossible, i guess. ken can do it. other than that, this matchup is a ***** for marth. fox = the only legit counter pick against sheik. and it's not even a real advantage... it's just a good matchup.
fox: what do you expect, no one counters fox. certain players have good enough foxes (chillin, mew2king, taj) that force ken to resort to fox dittos. that's all i have to say, really. i've heard that marth vs fox is one of the most even and critically important matchups in the game. it has decided many tournaments. so have marth dittos and fox dittos.
falco: another character that can easily get inside marth. basically a gimp and combo fest. like fox, there are no true counter picks to falco (except maybe ice climbers.) marth vs falco and fox vs falco are basically the same difficulty with different techniques being used. and hey, some find fox vs falco easier.
falcon: another character that can get inside due to speed. fox has an undisputed advantage over him... sorta. falcons are gimp-maniacs, so expect to be tech-chase *****. but no matter what happens, we all still know that fox's advantage exists and there must be away to find it.
more unorthodox anti-marths:
peach: turnips and priority can destroy the misconception of marth's advantage over peach. wife and mikael have shown this very clearly. however, fox's style forces peach to play differently. needless to say, most peach players have trouble against either one or the other. might as well know both.
game&watch: whoever doesn't know that he does well against marth doesn't know much about low tiers. nearly equal range, longer hitboxes duration-wise, disjointed at that. he'll give marth a lot of danger. fox, not so much. the danger is still there, but fox can get inside. (sheik is a better choice here, though.)
sheik and falco are also both great secondaries to marth. but if you're gonna tier *****, why not pick the highest one? for the greatest influence, i can look to none other than ken to make a proper decision.
another interesting observation: people who use marth as a secondary will normally show major influence from use of their main.
for example:
"sheik-marths" have amazing tech chasing skills.
"falcon-marths" are usually combo machines
"fox-marths" are gimpy
and etc. these are only generalizations, but videos can show you how true some of them can be.
omg wh*re is censored :'C