Being a "Low Tier Player" does not make you unique or honorable.

[controlfreak7]

mindgames are not identical for every character. not when characters have all these different frame speeds.

Well paragraph 2 kind of disagrees with that ^^^^^. Generally speaking if you have good midngames with one character then you should have good mindgames with other characters. Not exactly because you can transfer your understanding from one character to another, but because your understanding of mindgames is overall the same and good.

 

[SOLAR]

I know that Samus has very intense mind games by nature. Her recovery, when it comes to bomb jumps hitting the bomb, skipping it, going forward or backwards, and whether she will try to grab the edge or use her grapple, it's very unpredictable. All characters are capable of playing mind games, but I'd say people like Ganondorf are less about mind games, and more strategy due to the fact they're slow and relatively predictable by nature.

Low tier characters rely more on mind games. The thing with mind games is they can't just work all the time, you need different mind games for different opponents. This is why you don't see them winning many tournaments, because seasoned players can not be beat by mind games alone. (Or technical skill alone)

 

[Sirias]

Aha! I thought the same thing. People always say: "You're so cheap using your 'high-tier' characters, whatta loser, you can't use the lower ones like me!" I could and I would still beat them, lmao, but still, it's stupid. They're not 'cheap', you can be 'cheap' with anyone if you know how to be.

Meh, I guess people just wanna find excuses if they lose. It's funny, though, because when they use the 'high-tier' characters, e.g Fox, Marth, Sheik etc. they all suck. Especially with Fox. And then they're like: "OMG THIS PERSON SUCKS!" So I dunno, kinda contradictory. Then again I play this game more than most people I know and I know how to use all the techniques this game (and the ones not 'supposed' to be incorporated into it but were indirectly) to my advantage. So meh! MEH TO ALL THOSE PEOPlE! XD

j/k.

Ahh well. People will always be like that. I guess it can't be helped.

 

[Airo]

hmm.. really.. i never played lowtiers that uses their tier as a john. i guess i cant relate to you people OR the topic. over and out for me =.=

 

[Sirias]

I use low-tiers, like... Mewtwo. XD Mainly because it's fun to watch my brother start going mental when he loses to me. <<;;

 

[Brookman]

this topic only loses because it plays low tier characters. can we lock it now?

 

[Airo]

ill call the police

 

[Gimpyfish62]

mindgames are for nubs

 

[that 1 guy]

If you guys really want this closed pm a mod. Or better yet get the thread creator to pm a mod and ask them to lock it..

 

[controlfreak7]

hmm.. really.. i never played lowtiers that uses their tier as a john. i guess i cant relate to you people OR the topic. over and out for me =.=

Its not even just being used as a john, when low tier players do win, it is used as an extra pwnage kind of thing. Lets say Bowser beats a fox in a tourney.

"OMG I JUST PWNED YOUR HIGH TIER *** WITH BOOZER NUBB!!!!"

It isn't always direct either sometimes they just say things to themselves. It is just one of those things where you don't have to say something for it to be implied or someone else can say it for you.

 

[Airo]

hm.... i never felt that way... i guess i cant relate to that either.
and maybe its because i am the only low tier player the crew i play with.

but

really i could debate that people that play with no intention of using 'lowtier' as a john, also would not feel extra prideful when winning with one.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i johnz about boozer all the time and m lyke 'MAN I PWNT YOU WITH A TERRIBLE CHAR" when i win.

thats why i've played as him always, and have never bothered even attempting to pick up a good character, because as a person competitive enough to say something as stupid as that, why woiuld i want to have the ability to do well in a tourney?

silly tier shenanagins xD

 

[Airo]

=.= silly gimpy

gimpy silly
gimpy should be ashamed of being silly.
bad gimpy.

sit boozer sit!

 

[Wilhelmsan]

God...lock it and let it sink.

Down, down, down...down to the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Airo]

uh oh... this thread is not flame anymore... but now its ful of spam.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

There are advantages and disadvantages to playing low tier characters and eschewing the higher-tier characters. One of the largest advatanges of playing a low-tier character is discovery - the higher tier characters are much more throughly explored, and while this means you're able to pick up a wide array of technical skills, tricks, techniques, and glitches, the downside is that anyone is able to do so and you're not doing anything new, and there are people out there who are better than you are at those, and who have been doing it for longer. With a low tier character, you can do things people generally haven't seen, and possibly things no one else has seen, thus giving you the element of surprise and forcing them to come up with a strategy on the fly to counter your unique or rare trick. This is true of the character in general; I often do better against better players with my Yoshi than my Jigglypuff, mostly on the basis of few people playing Yoshi and thus people not always understanding what he can do, or simply reacting inapporpriately even though they should know better simply out of reflex.

Conversely, the lower-tier characters are lower tier for a reason - they're all underpowered in some way or another. Roy and Link aren't bad, per se, but they don't have the broken abilities a lot of other characters have. Yoshi and Luigi both have a lot going for them, but both suffer from recovery and other issues which makes it very difficult to imagine either gaining too much general use. Some characters, like Pichu, Bowser, and Mewtwo, are simply underpowered and while they've got some neat things they can do they suffer from large weaknesses upper-tier characters just don't have. The characters on the top of the tier lists all have great strengths, and only one of them really is subtle in power - the Ice Climbers. All the rest have fairly evident strengths.

Claiming something is cheap is kind of silly in terms of competitive play, but it is pretty obvious that some of the characters are pretty much just better than others, and choosing to play those characters doesn't necessarily mean you're much better in general than those other people.

 

[MiraiGen]

Claiming something is cheap is kind of silly in terms of competitive play, but it is pretty obvious that some of the characters are pretty much just better than others, and choosing to play those characters doesn't necessarily mean you're much better in general than those other people.

Main reason I don't Smash competitively. It's not that there's anything bad about it, but I don't think it'd be fun to pick up Marth/Fox/Shiek/Falco for a tournament just so I could have a fighting chance.

I mean, honestly. Lower tier characters, I think, are more fun, because the developers came up with cool **** instead of making them speed combo machines. For example, Ness and Roy, some of my favorites.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

I mean, honestly. Lower tier characters, I think, are more fun, because the developers came up with cool **** instead of making them speed combo machines. For example, Ness and Roy, some of my favorites.

ya combos are pretty stupid and boring O.O

 

[Airo]

and chain throws are for noooobbs.. you just chain and chain and chain and chain and FSMASH!
such a robot.

 

[Giggidax]

maining high tier characters is one possible way of getting beast at ssbm but it may not always be true. i think to be good, u would have to have a good feel for a character u use. in most cases though poeple feel that the high tier characters are fit for them. but really overall dont choose top tier characters jus because u think ull be better with them, pick a char that u feel u do well with, and have fun playing with.

this is just my opinion tho. in reality tho, low tier characters can beat top tier characters just as well as vica versa

 

[Zeee]

Tiers dont exist.

 

[Giggidax]

zee > yea thats pretty much wat im trying to say but some people will say otherwise. edit : altho im not saying a tier list doesnt exist completly... im just implying that the tier list chart stuff shouldnt be taken so seriously

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I don't use Low Tier characters because of "honor."

Honestly, I use Low Tier characters (Bowser, G&W) because I sucked at using High Tier characters. I tried Fox, failed. Same with Falco and Marth. (However, at this time I didn't know about tiers, I simply thought they were the best.) I used Game & Watch, and I had success. He's just the right character for me.

Also, in the beginning I did feel special and unique for using G&W at tourneys, but I soon realized that using G&W doesn't make me more special than anyone else. I still believe that it makes me unique (unique meaning "not typical; unusual"), but that's not why I play him. He is simply my best character and I win most often with him.

I find it amusing that I main Falco now.

 

[Zeee]

zee > yea thats pretty much wat im trying to say but some people will say otherwise. edit : altho im not saying a tier list doesnt exist completly... im just implying that the tier list chart stuff shouldnt be taken so seriously

I laugh at all my friends that want to play as Marth and Fox just because they're "top tier".

Shiek = God like
Falcon = Hot
Falco = Not Fox
Mario (Wario Suit only) = Wario Substitute

 

[FireBomb]

I only allow red and blue colors on my Marios.

It's rather fun being in a lower "tier", as I hate being like everyone else, and that goes for Smash characters too. Seeing the look on some noobs face who just got beaten by a Mario is priceless. 'Course, what do teirs really mean anyway? You main who you main, use what you got, and if you can't handle the situation, learn and adapt. That doesn't apply to certain people, though that's what some people seem to imply. Stop wasting time trying to decide whether to be Fox or Marth and get out there and KO someone already!

 

[ToP CaT]

whoa this thread is still going...?!?!?! trippy

 

[Razed]

and chain throws are for noooobbs.. you just chain and chain and chain and chain and FSMASH!
such a robot.

That's why Ken uses them right? Cause they're for noobs?

Tiers dont exist.

Yes they do.

 

[Zeee]

Yes they do.

Don't be stupid.
You can't say Tiers really exist when it comes to skill.
You saying just because you use your Fox/Falco against Kens.... say.... Pichu. You have a better chance of winning because the match is impossible?
GTFOH

It's all skill the tier list is always changing.
Unless this is SB64 then there's no such thing as a Tier list when it comes to skill.
I'm sure Germ's Low tier link would own your low skill Fox/Falco anyday lol.

End

 

[Razed]

Don't be stupid.
You can't say Tiers really exist when it comes to skill.
You saying just because you use your Fox/Falco against Kens.... say.... Pichu. You have a better chance of winning because the match is impossible?
GTFOH

It's all skill the tier list is always changing.
Unless this is SB64 then there's no such thing as a Tier list when it comes to skill.
I'm sure Germ's Low tier link would own your low skill Fox/Falco anyday lol.

End

Don't be an idiot, obviously a nub fox can't beat a pro player. Obviously you don't know what the tiers are about. They just determine which character has better overall ability. Where did I ever say that skill doesn't matter?

You're a prick dude. Chill.

 

[mood4food77]

when do you see any character win a tournament ranked lower than marth, excluding low tier tournaments?



pretty sure...never, only once in a while will it happen, and most of the time it does, it's a peach, falcon, ICs, samus, or maybe even a ganon, rarely even mario, doc, or jiggs

why is there an arguement about link being a higher tier, cause he ***** all low tiers pretty much, but he gets ***** harder by high tiers keeping him a low tier

go ahead, don't follow the tier list, get ***** by a falco or someone like that...see what'll happen

and please don't use a john like "i was low tier or you used falco"...it's just dumb

 

[Arash]

if you lose with the excuse of "i was a low tier against your high tier"...

then pick a high tier yourself, nobody told you to pick low tier chars

 

[Zeee]

Don't be an idiot, obviously a nub fox can't beat a pro player. Obviously you don't know what the tiers are about. They just determine which character has better overall ability. Where did I ever say that skill doesn't matter?

You're a prick dude. Chill.

:O I'd put money on my Kirby owning your falco lol.

 

[XZalla]

Any character on this game I choose to play as, tiers do not come to mind.

Every character has an advantage and disadvantage. But it seems that few is wanting to keep that in mind.

Tiers in this game is getting ridiculous to the point where most are maining the same 4 or 5 characters. The variety in this game is lacking just like fighting games. There's always the same characters in the 1v1s.

The only way you can be unique or honorable is if you make that character imbalanaced to the point where someone makes a thread similar to that inf. grab topic. But in order to do that, you have to be an extremely good player.

 

[-Darc-]

Razed are you serious?

 

[choknater]

Any character on this game I choose to play as, tiers do not come to mind.

Every character has an advantage and disadvantage. But it seems that few is wanting to keep that in mind.

Tiers in this game is getting ridiculous to the point where most are maining the same 4 or 5 characters. The variety in this game is lacking just like fighting games. There's always the same characters in the 1v1s.

The only way you can be unique or honorable is if you make that character imbalanaced to the point where someone makes a thread similar to that inf. grab topic. But in order to do that, you have to be an extremely good player.

on the contrary, there's plenty of diversity out there in the competitive scene. luigis, links, jigglys, ganons, etc. of course the more adaptable and stronger characters are going to be picked more often because they're the only ones that USUALLY WIN tournaments.

low tier players are out there, they normally just go unnoticed. as far as being unique and honorable? yes they are (if they win lol.)

now, as far as picking mains BECAUSE of the tiers... that's where smash gets a little less fun. people should be picking characters who they like, because any character can do well in a tournament with enough practice (and a good, high tier secondary ) i mean seriously... one man refutes this whole topic: TAJ!

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Curse Giggiadax for reactivating this topic.

Ummm... I'm hearing a lot of repeat arguments (reiterating the fact that no one read the previous posts). I'll just say it again: Being a low-tier player does make you unique and honorable (particularly if you win). It makes you unique because everyone plays the higher tier characters. You don't see many dedicated low-tier players these days. If you win hard matchups then you become quite honorable. It's only ******** when someone plays a low-tier character, loses a lot, and then proceeds to complain about it.

 

[Ceriph]

I must agree and disagree on these concepts. While it may be possible for a low tier character to beat a player using high tiers. In my experience in recent months, it's all about who gets the first hit in, then it's combo the hell out of them with little pips until you can take them off of the edge to finish. However, it is more likely that a high tier (such as fox) will kill any low tier simply by putting them off the edge slightly then holding them back with a simple shine.

Low tiers can win, you just have to have better control over your character then the player with the high tier. Fox, falco, marth, they are all great but if you the player suck, then anyone whos even remotely good with there low tier will beat you.

And I agree, low tier players have cool **** but I have to say that I think the shine is hella cool lol. Anyways, just my opinions.

 

[Ceriph]

on the contrary, there's plenty of diversity out there in the competitive scene. luigis, links, jigglys, ganons, etc. of course the more adaptable and stronger characters are going to be picked more often because they're the only ones that USUALLY WIN tournaments.

low tier players are out there, they normally just go unnoticed. as far as being unique and honorable? yes they are (if they win lol.)

now, as far as picking mains BECAUSE of the tiers... that's where smash gets a little less fun. people should be picking characters who they like, because any character can do well in a tournament with enough practice (and a good, high tier secondary ) i mean seriously... one man refutes this whole topic: TAJ!

I completely agree on the very last point made here. One man does refute this topic and any who don't know that should watch his shadow claw vid or some of his others. It's great to watch a good fox/falco/marth player get owned by mewtwo. Actually I agree with most of the things this one said.

 

[Giggidax]

hey i wasnt the one who revived this thread O_O or was i? lol if so my apoligies

 

[Kokichi]

I used to believe that tiers don't exist. I still do, to some extent...well, it's more that I've changed my view on it than anything. To me, I think what factors into it is an individual character's own natural potential level, and a players skill with that character.

So, for example, I think most people would agree that Fox has more potential to be a powerful character than, say, Pichu. Pichu, when used by someone with high skill, can definitely beat a Fox. Hell, sometimes when all my friends and I are playing top-tier character matches, I'll go YL or Pichu or someone and just rapesies them. However, if Ken were to clone himself and play against another Pichu when he was Fox, I'd bet that the Fox would win. It might be a close match, but the Fox would win more times than the Pichu would.

I think that a person's skill matters oh-so-much more than the potential of the individual character. My best friend foxroar can usually kick my *** with just about any character he chooses. It doesn't matter if he goes Donkey Kong and I go Marth, or if he goes Falco and I go Marth, he'll still be better than me because he is, on average, a better player than me. He can l-cancel faster, he can combo better, he can out-mindgame me, he's just better on almost all levels.

So, to determine how good an individual player is, I'd say that it's a ratio between the potential of the character, how skillful the player is on average, and how skillful the player is with that specific character. Just because Ken's good with Marth doesn't mean he'll be good with Yoshi. I'm sure Gabe's Yoshi would crush Ken's Yoshi; the character has the same amount of potential, Ken is a better player on average, but due to how the ratio is spread out, and since Gabe is more skillful with Yoshi than Ken is, Gabe wins.

That's why I personally feel like me, or most people, maining Marth has been futile. I'd argue that Marth has a huge, if not the largest, potential out of any character to be extremely powerful. However, it is *very* hard to actually be able to utilize that potential; to draw from that well of power. Ken has been able to tap into that limitless supply of mana, and thus he rapesies.

But okay, back on topic...I think that playing a Low Tier character, and playing that Low Tier character well, will make you stand out from the crowd - look at most of the really good Low Tier players (like Chu, Arash, or Taj when he goes Mewtwo). They tend to stand out in a different way than the top players. Playing a Low Tier character, due to the limits of that individual character, might mean that you can never beat certain top-players; if, out of those three factors I listed above, you're even in the second two, and the only difference is how good the character naturally is, then, on average, you'll lose more often than win.

So yeah. All in all, I say just go with whoever you like.