becoming worse by getting better?

[Mooo]

Alright so I picked up smash after a 4 year brak this summer and I only played it casual (like very casual) before that. Thing is I am starting to really practice and increase my techskill. I do waveshines, shinecombos, sh double lasers, illusion stalls and all that to improve my techskill, however it seems that more process I make with techskill results in my overall play becoming worse.
I was able to beat my brother (Marth/Sheik) like 90% of the time, however now that my techskill is really improving, I don't even get him in half the matches we play, you probably can understand how frustrating that is.
So, was any of you guys able to observe similar things on other players/themselves or is it a common thing? Why does it happen? Do I just fail at smash? Any other related thoughts?

 

[FoxLisk]

youre probably trying to use techskill rather than trying to play better smash. which is a normal phase. just try to think about why you're using your tech skill rather than just using it randomly.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The most likely reason is that when you played casually, you would do things because you thought they would work, whereas now you may be doing them because you think they look right or something like that.

Since you can already do the techniques, just try to keep track of when they work and when they don't and adjust your play accordingly. You should be able to get at least some sense of how to apply what you know pretty quickly that way. Watching a lot of videos to see how to apply particular techniques can also help.

 

[Mizar]

Don't rely on techskill that much. Spacing is one of the most important parts of the game (if not, the most) Since you didn't even mention it, I think you need to work on it first.

It will seem like you're doing worse, but unless your brother make a big jump in his smash skill I think its just a stage where you need to get out of. Practicing spacing will help doing that.

Oh and try to be unpredictable. Full hop nair for example still surprises me sometimes.

 

[CableCho57]

yeah I remember when I started playing and learned how to wavedash consistently, I immediately thought I was better than anyone who didnt know how lol

as time goes, youll understand how to apply your techskill much better

 

[Esper]

just because you have awesome techskill doesn't mean you can rushdown every opponent.

simple things like f-tilts, spot-dodges or shield-grabbing can cover a lot of your approaches, even if your techskill is way better than that of your brother (especially as marth/sheik)

learn to observe what your brother does and think of something that beats his tactics. for example if he tries to shield-grab you land behind him. If he spams f-tilt/fair/f-smash as you run/jump in, try to bait his attack and punish his lag afterwards


edit: I think this is an experience every player makes at some point. Don't be frustrated, just think a bit more about what you're actually doing. It doesn't always have to be the most technical option

 

[KAOSTAR]

Basically ur trying to out tech skill your opponent with your new moves.

When you find yourself constantly running in trying to attack, just start dash dancing instead. When they(especially marth) leaves an opening then go for it.

U just have to re assess your level of patience my dude.

 

[Violence]

You have two paths to follow.

The way of the Tech: Get insanely, retardedly good at tech skill, to the point where he can't even touch you and you simply overwhelm him with tech and **** and rage and sexyness, and look amazing while you do it.

The way of the Space: Learn Marth's spacing, and concentrate on using the tech that you've acquired to get around his sword and get hits. The most practical form of tech skill can be used to punish to the absolute limit, and to get the first hit in. There's always the great adage that comes to mind, "all the tech skill in the world can lose to wavedash back."

 

[Mooo]

Thanks for the advice, just to clarify:
I am far away from being even just decent at techskill and I dont only try to improve techskill, but techskill is the only thing that I can practice when I am home alone procrastinating my homework =D
But yeah I recorded a match of myself playing and I see what you mean, while trying to apply my techskill I often leave myself open which is pretty bad against marths forward smash (especially in combination with my horrible DI). Also, by being more technical, I am more predictable, so kind of what you all said, I really should be more patient and variable instead of technical and aggressive.

 

[GOD!]

hahahahahahahahhahaha

 

[Acryte]

wd back is too good!

 

[Fly_Amanita]

wd back is too good!

I support this message.

 

[Pi]

this happens
i suffered from it as well
i suggest learning and becoming comfortable with only one asspect of tech skill at a time

if you're looking to implement waveshines correctly, then just look for that drill->waveshine -> grab/upsmash combo and spam it until you know the perfect opportunities to do it in

if you're looking to learn wavedash OoS, then just spam that one thing until you're comfortable with it

it's a learning process, obviously, so don't expect just because you can perform these technical feats that they are going to guarantee you do better, because you have to learn precisely when to implement them for them to be effective at all

look at rest, it's an amazing move, but you have to learn when to do it for it to be effective at all

 

[Nicknyte]

Practice
Patience
Precision

Thats what is key here. Techskill is not everything, but finding a balance between Spacing and Techskill is best. Don't worry about getting worse at using it in a match, but practice Techskill till you get better. Don't worry about losing as much. The money will be sweeter in a real tournament.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Practice
Patience
Precision

Thats what is key here. Techskill is not everything, but finding a balance between Spacing and Techskill is best. Don't worry about getting worse at using it in a match, but practice Techskill till you get better. Don't worry about losing as much. The money will be sweeter in a real tournament.

Techskill is everything

 

[Youngling]

Techskill is everything

Yeah, lovage and silent wolf win every tourney they go to

 

[Nicknyte]

Get outta here Mootoo plyr.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Tech skill is everything!!!!!!! without it you cant do anything lol.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Tech skill is everything!!!!!!! without it you cant do anything lol.

Mewtwo requires more tech skill then Jiggs.
Tech skill is everything.
So there for Mewtwo is better than Jiggs.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I never said anything like that. just saying that somebody with 0 tech skill cannot control their character at all. somebody with hella, controls their character very well.

I didnt say you need an unnecessary or flashy amount of tech skill. But what it comes down to is the ability to control your character. Spacing falls under the tech skill umbrella imo.

 

[Mooo]

Tech skill is different from the ability to control your character but the potential to pull off fast maneuvers. What I am saying is that techskill is not limited, whough there is a point where it becomes flashy and "too much". Keeping the techskill at this point (or just using the techskill at this point while having more potential) is the optimum. Techskill is required, though not everything. Zero techskill doesn't mean you can't push buttons, it just means that you can not do shorthops and you probably can't time forward b right... =D

Mewtwo requires more tech skill then Jiggs.
Tech skill is everything.
So there for Mewtwo is better than Jiggs.

if something requires more for the same output, it's usually worse.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Well when I say control your character, I mean the ability to input commands and get the desired output on a consistent basis.

There are casuals out there who **** up the up B to recover. and plenty of lesser falcons shffl a nair and then end up walking instead of running. Not a big deal right.....***** u ****ed up running lol

tech skill

 

[Nø Ca$h]

be like water...

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

when you practice tech skill alot you tend to develop habits, and also in matches people new to tech skill will go for that rather then playing smart.
remember to watch him and how he plays and adapt. dash-dance grab alot.

 

[Rollz]

I don't think about techskill when I'm in a match. I just do the what I think is the best move at the time whether it's tech or not. You could just be losing more because you are practicing your techskill in matches with your bro instead of just trying to win, which is win because your learning the right times for your tech moves. That is going to ultimately make you a better player, and when you get to the right level of skill your bro won't be able to touch you.

 

[Dark_Crono]

you just need to get used to the advanced techniques and then youre going to mix that with your spacing and mindgames. Keep playing youre in the right path :D

 

[The Star King]

I thought KAOSTAR was trolling at first but I'm not sure now.

I don't think you actually think that tech skill is everything. You're just wording it badly.

 

[KAOSTAR]

LOL I actually was trolling at first. But then I thought about tech skill as just being the ability to control your character. Its basically your ability to DO anything. The only other aspects of the game are creativity, and ability to analyze and interpret.

The limiting factor is your tech skill. You can analyze and come up with all sorts of **** but if you cant do it then ur screwed.

They are all important, but consistency is what separates pros from the jo's, and consistently getting ****ed, the ho's.

 

[gm jack]

On the other hand, if you can predict well and keep yourself safe, you don't need as much tech skill to make the punishes happen.

They both go hand in hand, and you can't be good without both.

 

[Mooo]

except when you play puff, then you just autowin most of the time even if you suck (serious post)

 

[Problem2]

you still have to learn combos into Rest.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Just because something is "technically" harder to do doesn't make it a better option.

It's important that you don't play this game with the mindset that "this sequence of inputs takes more skill, therefore it should get me better results than some easier sequence of inputs." That's not logically valid.

You should be doing something because it's the smart thing to do, not just because it's harder to do.

Like, sure, it's perfectly fine to be proud of yourself for being able to consistently SHFFL. But that doesn't mean you should do it all the time just for the sake of doing it.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Just because something is "technically" harder to do doesn't make it a better option.

It's important that you don't play this game with the mindset that "this sequence of inputs takes more skill, therefore it should get me better results than some easier sequence of inputs." That's not logically valid.

You should be doing something because it's the smart thing to do, not just because it's harder to do.

Like, sure, it's perfectly fine to be proud of yourself for being able to consistently SHFFL. But that doesn't mean you should do it all the time just for the sake of doing it.

How is this relevant? Nobody said anything about doing harder **** or anything like that. The fact that whatever it is that you choose to do, you need to have the tech skill in order to pull it off.

 

[Mooo]

How is this relevant? Nobody said anything about doing harder **** or anything like that. The fact that whatever it is that you choose to do, you need to have the tech skill in order to pull it off.

I think ChivalRuse was replying to my original post, which I dunno, I never said anything about doing harder stuff because I can but I see his point like if I would only use stuff that I am proud of to do, of course I'd fail, despite this being not my problem.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Oh he could have been. I just couldnt find who he was talking to and I assumed it was me.

 

[Mooo]

im not really sure myself, chival, clarify? =D

 

[Retroking2000]

play basic smash seriously hinder yourself

so you focus on alot more of the mentality of the game

 

[Youngling]

These threads are ****ing stupid

 

[Bing]

Just gotta have fun with it eh?

I thought i was getting so good by having good techskill(my standards) but i got ***** by KirbyKaze... so yeah... dont completely worry about being all techy

 

[Bing]

Just gotta have fun with it eh?

I thought i was getting so good by having good techskill(my standards) but i got ***** by KirbyKaze... so yeah... dont completely worry about being all techy