Becoming a 2011 Snake: A Metagame Advancement Thread

[Yumewomiteru]

Yoooo lets discuss something less situational.

iirc, against a falco on the ledge, if you get right next to the ledge and hold jab, it will hit him out of his getup attack (while he's under 100% anyways, could work for over 100% too). Anyone want to test which characters we can jab out of getup attacks? taking into account that there are 2 different ones for each character depending on the percents.

 

[False]

We also beat DK's get up attack, I'm pretty sure.

 

[JRC LSS]

I tested jabbing get up attacks and here's what I came up with: In general, we can't jab anyone over 100%. The only exceptions I found were yoshi and samus which only hit sometimes, and toon link, which clanked. So these are only for when the opponent is under 100%.

mario: yes
dk: sometimes
link: sometimes
samus: sometimes
zss: sometimes
kirby: no
fox: sometimes
pikachu: sometimes
marth: sometimes
game and watch: sometimes
luigi: no
diddy: no
zelda: yes
sheik: no
pit: no
mk: no
falco: tends to trade hits
charizard: yes
squirtle: no
ivysaur: no
ike: yes
snake: no
peach: sometimes
yoshi: sometimes
ganondorf: sometimes
ics: sometimes
ddd: sometimes
wolf: sometimes
lucario: sometimes
sonic: sometimes
bowser: yes
wario: sometimes
toon link: yes
rob: sometimes
olimar: sometimes
captain falcon: sometimes
jigglypuff: no
lucas: no

Now, when I say "sometimes" it means that it hit/clanked/traded hits only some of the time. This seems to be mostly due to spacing and possibly the timing of the jabs. For the "yes" characters, you still need to space yourself (about 1/2 to 1 snake body length away from the ledge) but I found it easy to do consistently. For the "no" characters, obviously I wasn't able to get it at all. If you plan on trying to jab any of the sometimes characters, practice and learn the spacing first. I personally don't think it's worth it when you can easily just shield the attack.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Well holding jab can take away alot of options, like getup and jump, possibly roll too, and airdodge back onto the stage, i think knowledge of this is quite important.

 

[JRC LSS]

Well holding jab can take away alot of options, like getup and jump, possibly roll too, and airdodge back onto the stage, i think knowledge of this is quite important.

Sorry if I was unclear, I agree that this has it's uses. When I said I didn't think it was worth it I meant it more for the questionable characters, especially when you see the ledge-attack coming.

 

[False]

I was playing today and I did the machine gun jab to edgegaurd.. It's easy to bait the ledge attack and just shield grab.

 

[Attila_]

Out of interest, how many high tiers actually use a getup attack?

 

[OnlyUseMeNades]

It doesn't stop roll for most characters.

Out of interest, how many high tiers actually use a getup attack?

I haven't seen many, but I suppose you can just bait something and cancel the jab

 

[Attila_]

Doesn't work against invincible aerials. This isn't useful against competent players. Nade and c4 traps on the ledge are the safest and most effective.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I feel like it will work against falco at least because of his lack of invincible aerials

 

[False]

It does work particularly well against Falco, actually

I just noticed that if used sparingly it's really effective

 

[phi1ny3]

Well holding jab can take away alot of options, like getup and jump, possibly roll too, and airdodge back onto the stage, i think knowledge of this is quite important.

pretty situational, but conversely I do like holding jab when I have a grenade in front of me and they try to land in between, I just walk -> jab in the direction I think they're going to land b/c they tend to AD a lot when landing near snake (especially around the grenade lol).

btw jump cancel tosses are awezum, at least against big/tall characters since they help with spacing and getting grenades near the opponent.

I also try to bair as late as possible when coming down so that they don't put up their shield as much.

 

[Attila_]

I feel like it will work against falco at least because of his lack of invincible aerials

Ledge hop bair/Nair/side b aren't half bad. Or he could just jump over you.

No substitute for nades and c4, baby.

 

[RATED]

Yoooo lets discuss something less situational.

knowing a lot of "situational stuff" can be helpful, is like having a lot of quarters so that they become $100.

the more you know, the more variety you can add to your game. Even if they are "situational stuff"

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Pretty sure all the things you listed would trade or lose to rapid jab

 

[Attila_]

Invincible aerials win. Nair/bair will hit regardless if spaced correctly. As would side b.

Even with falco's lack of ledge options, getup attack is only very occasionally his best option, and most of the time I think you would be punished for attempting this.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Some players may not know that Snake's rapid jabs can beat getup attacks, so it could work if they getup attack to counter it.

 

[Attila_]

In that sense it would work.

I typically don't advise relying on your opponents lack of knowledge, however.

Changing topic slightly, why does no one punish cross ups with usmash oos?

 

[Mike2]

In that sense it would work.

I typically don't advise relying on your opponents lack of knowledge, however.

Changing topic slightly, why does no one punish cross ups with usmash oos?

Sorry, I'm n00b. What is this referring to exactly? >.<

*EDIT Search function is my friend. Nvmd.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240496&highlight=cross

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Edit:Nvm o-o

 

[Attila_]

one other thing.

i was playing on halberd this morning, and noticed that when the giant laser shot my mine, the detonation animation went off continually, for the duration of the laser.

does anyone know if the mine hitbox goes off continually here? or more importantly, does it refresh our moves continually?

 

[False]

I don't think it does..

D3 can also do this infinite blow up thing with his inhale.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Which means that Ganon can do it with his uptilt too making him slightly less trash.

Just had my 21st Birthday party, god I'm trashed.

 

[JRC LSS]

The mine thing on Halberd doesn't work. Oddly enough, it didn't even refresh one move.

Also, Ganon's up tilt wind does destroy mines but it just does it once. It's not like DDD's inhale trick.

 

[Attila_]

so i was mucking around against a computer mk, and with him on a platform and me under it, he shield grabbed my utilt. tried it out in training mode and its legit. mk is stupid.

 

[False]

DON'T TELL MK BOARDS

Also most of the time the utilt will knock them off the platform so if they do shield grab us we'll just be released

 

[Yumewomiteru]

DDD can also do it, and if they time the shield so its a powershield grab then they wont be knocked off.

 

[theONEjanitor]

In that sense it would work.

I typically don't advise relying on your opponents lack of knowledge, however.

Changing topic slightly, why does no one punish cross ups with usmash oos?

people don't attempt crossups unless they anticipate a shield, and upsmash comes out way too slow imo, you'll be hit before the mortar even comes out

 

[OnlyUseMeNades]

So for Diddy banana infinite, its

Grab banana > footstool > throw down > and here I can't tell what is used to catch and throw. Is it the ADCT?

And continue...

It's pretty fast to follow

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I always thought it was either z catch and throw, or just an insta throw or something of the sort, just from looking though. I haven't actually tried it.

 

[OnlyUseMeNades]

Ye, insta throw is basically the same thing.

I'll try later and write out some kind of steps

 

[Yumewomiteru]

So Ally mentioned that if we put a mine on a platform, we can grab release some characters (def MK) into the mines. does anyone with time and willingness to test it test the characters we can do this on?

 

[OnlyUseMeNades]

So I'm not sure if this is common knowledge or has already been dismissed or something, but Snake can do these

Spoiler

Bomb Slide Up Throw Fake Out
How to Perform: Pull out a Bomb, Run in one direction, Hit the C-stick down then Instantly use Up-smash.
Effect: Link will Pull out a Bomb, Run in one direction, Slide Forwards, Throw the Bomb Forwards during the slide then raise his arm as if he were throwing the Bomb upwards.
Note: This is the same controls as the DACUS (Dash Attack Cancelled Up-smash). There are a few variations of this Tech and all are useful. So you should learn how to do this before moving on.
Stages: All

Bomb Slide Up throw
How to Perform: Similar to the previous tech, Pull out a Bomb, Run in one direction, Hit the C-stick Down then Instantly Charge Up-smash.
Effect: Link will run in one direction, Slide Forwards and Throw the Bomb Upwards during the slide, then he will continue to slide a decent way.
Note: This is an excellent way to throw Bombs up at an opponent. This isn't that hard if you can do the Bomb Slide Up Throw Fake Out, the only difference is you have to be a little quicker and you need to charge the Up-smash.
Stages: All

Bomb Slide Forward Throw
How to Perform: Again, these are all quite similar, Pull out a Bomb, Run in one direction, Hit the C-stick Down, Instantly Hit Diagonally Forward Up-smash then Instantly move the joystick to Forwards.
Effect: Link will run in one direction, Slide Forwards and Throw the Bomb Forwards during the Slide.
Note: This is Link's way of Glide Tossing. This really should be learnt by all Link mainers because by doing this it allows you to instantly follow up after the Bomb Throw (amongst other things).
Stages: All

Bomb Slide Reverse Fake Out
How to Perform: Pull out a Bomb, Run in one direction, Hit the C-stick Down, Instantly Hit Diagonally Backwards Up-smash then Instantly move the Joystick to Backwards.
Effect: Link will Run in one direction, Slide Forwards, Throw the Bomb Forwards, do a Fake Throw Backwards then continue to slide Backwards a decent way.
Note: This one looks really trippy, it's also pretty hard. Another good way to Slide and Throw the Bomb.
Stages: All

Bomb Slide Reversal
How to Perform: Pull out a Bomb, Run in one direction, Hit the C-stick Down, Instantly Charge Diagonally Backwards Up-smash.
Effect: Link will run in one direction, Slide Forwards, Throw the Bomb Backwards then continue to slide Backwards.
Note: This is Link's other way to 'Glide Toss'. This also should be learnt by all Link mainers. This is possibly the most useful of all the Bomb Sliding techs and also the hardest. This should not be attempted before you can do all the others.
Stages: All

Just change "Link" to "Snake" and "Bomb" to "Nade"

 

[Wilmenz]

Crawling on the edge and doing a B move results into THIS Anyway to apply this into the metagame? I've been playing with it for a while and if you Platform cancel and then do this right away it looks like a waveland...

 

[KMFBrawler]

Crawling on the edge and doing a B move results into THIS Anyway to apply this into the metagame? I've been playing with it for a while and if you Platform cancel and then do this right away it looks like a waveland...

I'm not sure if it's something to apply in the metagame. But it will defintely be great as a surprise. That lucas sure experienced that first-hand...

 

[| Big D |]

One thing I like to do is plant c4 under the stage. It's really useful and many people forget about it just because they can't see it/keep up with all your other explosives.

 

[OnlyUseMeNades]

It's good, but it'd be tough to set while your opponent is around, especially if there's a chance of you getting gimped. I suppose you could prevent then from approaching, but the main problem I see is that C4 doesn't last too long and you'd have to constantly be setting it.

Not a bad idea if your opponent is plank happy though.

Although maybe I'm just salty cause I could never get it work

 

[KMFBrawler]

One thing I like to do is plant c4 under the stage. It's really useful and many people forget about it just because they can't see it/keep up with all your other explosives.

I think this a really smart idea. Defintely easier than just onstage drop a C4 from the ledge and let it explode with good timing. But, also what OnlyUseMeNades said.

 

[Wilmenz]

On Frigate Orpheon's first phase. The wall where there's a platform with no edge that goes up and down is a good place to place the C4 and you don't run a risk while doing it. Many people forget about the C4