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BBR's Match-up Chart for Pit

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
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Feb 22, 2010
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Doing what the other character boards will probably have as well, going to put the individual spread for Pit here.

Note*, original Matchup Chart is located here.

:pit:
-2: :metaknight: :wario:
-1: :snake: :marth: :popo: :gw:
0: :diddy: :falco: :olimar: :pikachu2: :lucario: :zerosuitsamus: :toonlink: :kirby2: :peach: :sonic:
1: :dedede: :fox: :rob: :wolf: :sheilda: :ike: :sheik: :ness2: :pt: :yoshi2: :mario2:
2: :dk2: :luigi2: :lucas: :falcon: :samus2: :jigglypuff: :link2: :zelda:
3: :bowser2: :ganondorf:

________________

What does this chart mean?

Not a whole lot more than you don't already know. Sure, a few things here and there might seem odd, but definitely take into account this is a much larger project than just individual matchup charts/character exports for each character board; this was done on one massive scale within like 3-4 months time.

Will it have updates?

Yes, it has potential to be one of the best goto sources of discussion and responsive competetiveness amongst character boards to take initiative at research and high-level play in order to make it more accurate on future releases. Basically, being a good role model for your character and being active in the community and the forums will allow for someone to catch you and get your opinion on things just as well as any other high-level player.

Can we view discussion from the BBR?

No, that stuff is not available right now. We can however discuss how matchups came to be the way they are. I can't directly quote or tell you who was in what panel. I'm fine with revealing myself as a panelist and component of the Pit matchup spread. That's it.

More questions:

What do the numbers mean?

[collapse=Ratings Definition]-4: (close to) unwinnable
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable
[/collapse]

[collapse=Ratings Translation - Paraphrased, NOT NECESSARILY EXACT, just my own interpretation.]
-4 -> ~Anything worse
-3 -> ~35-65/30-70
-2 -> ~40-60
-1 -> ~45-55
0 -> ~50-50
+1 -> ~55-45
+2 - ~60-40
+3 -> ~70-30/65-35
+4 -> ~ Anything better
[/collapse]

Further Discussion:

[collapse=Matchups That Deserve Attention]

28/37 Character Panels were not in agreement for our initial spread. (Discrepancies)
-15 Discrepancies were solved with Pit Panel agreeing to their ratio.
-5 Discrepancies were agreed upon at the halfway mark.
-1 Discrepancy was agreed upon by the opposing panel
-7 Matchups Left Unresolved
-- 1 Unresolved Matchup was agreed upon from our rating
-- 6 remaining Unresolved Matchups were agreed upon from the opposing rating.
---Those 6 are listed below:


:mario2: Original: +2 / Now: +1

:kirby2: Original: +1/ Now: Even
:ness2: Original: +2 / Now: +1

:snake: Original: Even / Now: -1
:marth: Original: Even / Now: -1
:popo: Original: +1 / Now: -1

From yellow to red, it's the less impactful to me to the more impactful. Snake and ICs are pretty hard hits to me, and I was really hoping for at least even for both of them. But we'll what happens in future iterations of the chart.
[/collapse]
 

Abel1994

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Dacula,GA
Please tell me what the numbers mean.
And Does the char first mean their the easiest compared to the one next to them?

Im confused sorry lol.
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
-2 would mean 30:70 against Pit.

Just multiply the number by 10, and add it to 50. i.e. -2 * 10 + 50 = 30.
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
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Feb 22, 2010
Messages
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Colorado Springs
Sorry I hadn't been paying much attention around here.

If you want I can post it there, is that okay? Or can you move posts?

Whatever works, my bad XD
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
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Apopka Florida
Im still mad about the snake thing. Everythng else is pretty spot on. Cept ic's possibly but idk it can be argued either way i guess. I think its even with IC as well.
 

Damix91

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
272
Location
London, UK
Pit at 13th with ZSS and TL in MU rankings. Fair. I think we should sneak above them and Lucario though for 12th,
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
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Location
Colorado Springs
The olimars were right that Pits underrate themselves in this matchup, but only by a certain degree. Olimar is a total !@#$% to work with, but at the same time we have a much higher chance of beating him than say GW or Marth, both of which are kinda yuck matchups for us anyways, but not so much that they deserve +2's over us; therefore leaving us with Olimar in even.

I admit that I don't have enough experience in the matchup, and neither did my other panelists, so we just went with it. They were adamant that Pits over rate Oli, and we weren't adamant about anything. I looked at the Pit boards and got the impression that the Olis are right.

To be honest it really could be a -1 but I'm certain arguing for it isn't really helpful, until we get high level Pit players stepping up and saying "!@#$, I've been playing (top player Olimar) and I always end up losing, and so do other Pit mains, high or low level play!"

:olimar: is ghey though.

THAT SAID
, though, there is nothing to discourage any of you guys to make write-ups and theory-craft, along with videos of this particular match up to prove a point. Olimar boards didn't have jack squat as far as that goes, so beat them to it and maybe this will change in the next matchup chart version.
 

Abel1994

Smash Lord
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Dacula,GA
The olimars were right that Pits underrate themselves in this matchup, but only by a certain degree. Olimar is a total !@#$% to work with, but at the same time we have a much higher chance of beating him than say GW or Marth, both of which are kinda yuck matchups for us anyways, but not so much that they deserve +2's over us; therefore leaving us with Olimar in even.

I admit that I don't have enough experience in the matchup, and neither did my other panelists, so we just went with it. They were adamant that Pits over rate Oli, and we weren't adamant about anything. I looked at the Pit boards and got the impression that the Olis are right.

To be honest it really could be a -1 but I'm certain arguing for it isn't really helpful, until we get high level Pit players stepping up and saying "!@#$, I've been playing (top player Olimar) and I always end up losing, and so do other Pit mains, high or low level play!"

:olimar: is ghey though.
So what does the numbers mean?
 

Krystedez

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Well post it and I'll be putting material (RECENT ONLY please) in the main post for consideration.

The whole point of making this thread is so that you guys can have at least some influence on the MU ratings, just like the high-level players do. So post away. Anything that I find relevant or high-level play will be put in the main post under Data or something lol. It WILL help for future iterations for the chart.

@ Abel the original post is editted, look in the collapsed boxes.

@ Xcallion, you need to read too :) Main post has the information, I have no idea what that formula is but it's most certainly not related to the rankings in the least.

@ everyone gunna put up the original link to the matchup chart thread, that might help too.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
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Dec 5, 2009
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Houston, Texas
got to say it

there is not one pit who posts here that knows the olimar match up. hell rich brown himself told me he fears pit as he thinks it's our favor. not that i agree with that but i can see it being even. but until the mu is played and researched hell tbh theory craft won't even work to well because we don't know how his pikmin based moveset counters or gets beat by ours at all really.

we got to take initiative and start playing olimars guys.
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
i'm going to a local tourney this weekend and i'll try to find an olimar who's willing to play some friendlies for an hour xD
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
no guarantees that i'll even find one so dont get annoyed at me if i dont
 

Krystedez

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RAAWRRR XCALLION I DEMAND RESULTS AND VIDEOS BECAUSE YOU'RE AN AWEOMSE PIT MANE AND I WILL HAET U AND TROL U IF YOU DONT

:troll:

Do your best man, have fun!
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
got to say it

there is not one pit who posts here that knows the olimar match up. hell rich brown himself told me he fears pit as he thinks it's our favor. not that i agree with that but i can see it being even. but until the mu is played and researched hell tbh theory craft won't even work to well because we don't know how his pikmin based moveset counters or gets beat by ours at all really.

we got to take initiative and start playing olimars guys.
fUddO should get in here. One of my region's top players who him and I practice with is an Olimar. fUddO himself is well on his way to becoming ranked.

@dskank lolno.
 

fUddO

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I'm not so sure about ICs and Snake. They both feel even to me. Especially ICs.

EDIT: I don't feel like I have much experience with the Olimar matchup yet. However, it seems like if you understand how to CP (Japes, RC and Picto seem like the best choices), watch Pikman order, and can tell the difference between his attacks it should be even. Honestly, Olimar is just weird. You can't really camp him, and he forces you to play differently against him compared to other characters.
 

Abel1994

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I'm not so sure about ICs and Snake. They both feel even to me. Especially ICs.

EDIT: I don't feel like I have much experience with the Olimar matchup yet. However, it seems like if you understand how to CP (Japes, RC and Picto seem like the best choices), watch Pikman order, and can tell the difference between his attacks it should be even. Honestly, Olimar is just weird. You can't really camp him, and he forces you to play differently against him compared to other characters.
Yea Olimar is wierd. When I fight him im like "if i go near him ima get spam hit by smash" if I get far I get spam hit by specials... So all I do is run and reflect everything he does and force him off stage :D
 

fUddO

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That's part of the problem I think. We always assume we're going to get hit by the worst possible move. Grab, Fsmash, and Pikman toss all look sort of similar.
 

Luckay4Lyphe

Smash Master
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The only thing he has on us is his grab. We can reflect his pikmin with AR and outprioitize his attacks with ours.

Am I the only one who thinks olimar isn't that bad?
 

Abel1994

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That's part of the problem I think. We always assume we're going to get hit by the worst possible move. Grab, Fsmash, and Pikman toss all look sort of similar.
TBH all his moves are similar

Usmash Dsmash Fsmash all the same

>B is the same as Fsmash but with range n they stick >.>

but yea I AR a lot when I fight a olimar
 

Luckay4Lyphe

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TBH all his moves are similar

Usmash Dsmash Fsmash all the same

>B is the same as Fsmash but with range n they stick >.>

but yea I AR a lot when I fight a olimar
Wtf? No, just no...

His side b hurls pikmin like snowballs and makes a distinct noise when he does it, its nothing like fsmash nor would olimar ever use that move in a situation where he could also use fsmash so i don't know how that could confuse you.

His usmash shoots a pikmin upwards and fsmash shoots a pikmin to the side? Maybe dsmash and fsmash look similar if you're only looking at the pikmin. If thats the case you shouldn't be looking at his pikmin, look at the ****** spaceman. His movements when using all three moves are in no way similar.

The only real thing that's "similar" is his normal grab and fsmash because the pikmin make the almost the same horizontal motion. Grab sends pikmin walking to the side while fsmash makes them dive at you and fall on the ground.
 

Abel1994

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Wtf? No, just no...

His side b hurls pikmin like snowballs and makes a distinct noise when he does it, its nothing like fsmash nor would olimar ever use that move in a situation where he could also use fsmash so i don't know how that could confuse you.

His usmash shoots a pikmin upwards and fsmash shoots a pikmin to the side? Maybe dsmash and fsmash look similar if you're only looking at the pikmin. If thats the case you shouldn't be looking at his pikmin, look at the ****** spaceman. His movements when using all three moves are in no way similar.

The only real thing that's "similar" is his normal grab and fsmash because the pikmin make the almost the same horizontal motion. Grab sends pikmin walking to the side while fsmash makes them dive at you and fall on the ground.
lol Olimar2good

Anyway yea I dont have that much of a problem fighting him but its still annoying a hell
 

Luckay4Lyphe

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Can you name any good olimars that you've played to let some of the people like Maharba who may think its a troublesome matchup know that it is annoying, but not much of a problem?
 

Abel1994

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Can you name any good olimars that you've played to let some of the people like Maharba who may think its a troublesome matchup know that it is annoying, but not much of a problem?
Dark chaos on Fsmash :D

AKA Choas1 xD Tell him I sent you their and fight him :3
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
There is nothing on here that I personally disagree with by more then 1 point. I am surprised that olimar turned out even, and also surprised that Fox and wolf become our advantages.

I understand that the olimars actually pushed for it to be even, however how did the wolfs/foxes argue? Did they see it as our advantage or did Pits push for it?
 
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