BBR Weekly Character Discussion #8: R.O.B.

[stingers]

ROB has all the tools he needs to win. it's just a lot harder for him then every other viable character.

 

[Silhouette]

i personally think r.o.b needs to drop. He's far too linear (like kirby and gnw) and although he doesn't have a multiple amount of glaring matchups he does have a good amount that are not in his favor or equal at that. The only high tier character that he has an advantage on would be the ice climbers - unlike other mid tier characters. His kill moves are extremely predictable and not too strong at that (unlike gnw and kirby) and his camping is overated - we have learned how to powershield lasers and gyros.

R.o.b doesn't beat diddy...

The only thing i can see keeping r.o.b at his current placement is his incredible ability in di and surviving at high percentages.

Everything else has been said.

*facepalm*

editing since I should contribute more than charizards:'
You seem to neglect his spacing game, the characters you compared him to have linear approaches and a bad projectile game. Gyro isn't like other projectiles, it remains on the field as a zoning tool and an item that increases ROBs mobility greatly, let alone once its charged its a kill move.

His camping game isn't the best at racking up %, but the advantage it that he forces his opponent to approach, putting them at the disadvantage (Unlike Kirby and G&W). Even with the not-so-difficult P-shield timing he will give you trouble with his superior spacing game with tilts, B-air and F-air.

He does have some trouble killing, but he is also one of the best gimpers in the game, and if nothing else his projectiles are used to bother you while recovering where you cant P-shield them.

 

[z00ted]

Of course you all are going to facepalm, you are ROB mains...
Stingers basically summarized everything I was trying to say, but more politely.

 

[Silhouette]

Bumping for my response

editing since I should contribute more than charizards:'
You seem to neglect his spacing game, the characters you compared him to have linear approaches and a bad projectile game. Gyro isn't like other projectiles, it remains on the field as a zoning tool and an item that increases ROBs mobility greatly, let alone once its charged its a kill move.

His camping game isn't the best at racking up %, but the advantage it that he forces his opponent to approach, putting them at the disadvantage (Unlike Kirby and G&W). Even with the not-so-difficult P-shield timing he will give you trouble with his superior spacing game with tilts, B-air and F-air.

He does have some trouble killing, but he is also one of the best gimpers in the game, and if nothing else his projectiles are used to bother you while recovering where you cant P-shield them.

 

[z00ted]

Eh, agreed I was focusing too much about on the negatives than the positives, ROBs spacing is superb, and Gyros / Lasers do mix things up for diversity.
Similar to Falco (but not as well) and other characters he does force his opponents to approach.

Changed my mine he should just stay at his current placing.

 

[TheMike]

we have learned how to powershield lasers and gyros.

If you powershield a Gyro, then a Laser, then another Gyro, then another laser, then another Gyro, then another laser, than another Gyro, then another laser, then another Gyro, then another laser, you are not an human being.

The above is obviously a joke. However, if ROB shoots a laser followed by a Gyro and his opponent powershields both, he can shoot another gyro because when it's powershielded, ROB is able to shoot it again, and follow with a another laser because there would be enough time to shoot it again even being weak. Furthermore, the gyro will be in the ground as a zoning tool, like SiL said.

 

[DMG]

I just play Wario and don't care about all of that cause Im in the air.

Wario camp game against ROB is a bit ********. He has no good options for it. Then again, not many really do.

 

[Silhouette]

If you powershield a Gyro, then a Laser, then another Gyro, then another laser, then another Gyro, then another laser, than another Gyro, then another laser, then another Gyro, then another laser, you are not an human being.

The point of them always being able to P-shield the Laser/Gyro is that they can predict when we shoot it, charge us, and P-shield it during their approach and catch us in our lag. Since we cant Illusion or chain grab like falco we have a tougher camping game. But thats where retreating grounded B-reversed projectiles and retreating Fairs come in, tied with our dominance offstage make for a formittable camping game.

The issue with ROBs camping is that its generally so predictable, just laser > gyro > rinse and repeat. ROB cant laser twice in a row, and once the gyro is on the field it gets to chill there for awhile.

Gyro is a better defense agains P-shielding than laser, they have about the same amount of lag but gyro travels slower in the air, which means it will come in contact with them later and they will have less time to punish our lag. We also instantly get it back unlike laser.


and P-shielding them at a distance is only useful if you have the advantage, which is when ROB might be forced to approach so Pshielding projectiles doesn't really matter.

I just play Wario and don't care about all of that cause Im in the air.

Wario camp game against ROB is a bit ********. He has no good options for it. Then again, not many really do.

Warios wiggle game is silly but gyro can be effective against it:

While Wario is wiggling in and out of ROBs spacing with the ol' Bait n' Punish it will be easy to get a gyro behind him, then pressuring him with F-airs will corner him.

Again, gyro is a better zoning tool/thrown than normally shooting it.




Someone please stop me before I reveal ALL my tricks..

 

[Darth Waffles]

I just play Wario and don't care about all of that cause Im in the air.

Wario camp game against ROB is a bit ********. He has no good options for it. Then again, not many really do.

Are you going to APEX? I'd like to see this for myself/play you a bit.

 

[T0MMY]

I should interject here and give my input.
But most of what was said about R.O.B. (both pros and cons) have already been stated.

I just want to say the people that put down R.O.B. the most know very little about the character (and seem to be strongly opinionated for such little knowledge).
Those who know the character may sound like they're giving R.O.B. too much credit, but that's in response to the harsh critics.

The truth of the matter lies somewhere in the middle. R.O.B. isn't terrible, but he won't give much of an advantage in many matchups.

Really, has any ROB recently done anything amazing in a tourney? Upsets, consistent top placings, crazy matches?

Chibo's beaten some noteworthy players.
I've placed well in every tournament I've played and pulled my own share of upsets. Recently won versus both Jem and Felix in the last Pac NW monthly.
Holy and other R.O.B. players (like OS) have switched mains, and a lot of people are basing their view of the character on an early 2009 R.O.B. meta game, this is unfortunate.

 

[ccst]

I think R.O.B. is going to drop one place in the Tier List (Peach is going 16th and Kirby 17th), and I think 16th-18th is the most accurate place for R.O.B..

In fact, R.O.B. is very huge and slow, lacking killing power and doesn't have spammy projectiles. Almost all of R.O.B.'s attacks have some sort of ending lag and / or startup lag. He has one of the worst vertical DI and shield, plus that he sucks in the air due to the biggest base in the game which means --> easiest juggle. He also has trubble against Meta Knight (who doesn't?) who steals I mean wins the money at tournaments. And to not mention his awfully big blindspots were they EXTEND on platforms...

R.O.B. is so overrated (especially by R.O.B. mainers) but also underused. I don't think R.O.B. can be better than (at least) the top 15 to be quite honest. 16th-17th can be discussed though. R.O.B.'s isn't very good against Low and Bottom Tiers (look at Zelda and even Ganondorf can be "hard") if you compare to many other characters in this game, and they can be very tough if you want the truth. R.O.B. doesn't have any super MU's directly while super disadvantage matchups flow... so it's hard for me to imagine a raising in the Tier List...

I'm a R.O.B. mainer and I'm not going to support / defend R.O.B. to rise in the Tier List sorry. Many R.O.B. mainers want him to rise, but seriously, just take the facts and see the truth. I can admit R.O.B.'s flaws and even say that he doesn't have the potential to rise. (I know some of you lost the respect for me now). Don't overrate him, there are many more characters that do better than R.O.B. and have better tournament potential (I can see Kirby as an example).

Don't take me wrong, R.O.B. is still a good character but I don't overrate him like many others (including non R.O.B. mainers) do. I know I've been very partial about R.O.B. but all the good things have already been mentioned (or at least more than the bad ones).

And one last thing: Don't give up with R.O.B.!

 

[Tin Man]

I just wanted to drop my 2 cents as a good ROB player, even though the following has already been said.

• ROB is a jack of all trades, master of none
• Hard time killing, requires an exceptional read to pull it off
• ROB has a lot of even match ups. He is not at all considered a big disadvantage to ANY CHARACTER IN THE CAST and yet he himself has very bad match ups

I see ROB's potential, I don't think he is A tier material, more like B tier material. He does well vs some high tiers, and poorly vs others. There are characters below him that counter him also, but those match ups are still all winnable. ROB is a good character, not a great one. I wish i was able to contribute earlier, but yeah not much I can say now lol. good job SBR.

 

[ccst]

In other words; R.O.B. deserves his wins, if you win, you are good. But look at Meta Knight and Snake, you can have a nice cup of tea LoL.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ROB has good pokes and N-air edgeguarding is super reliable. That's pretty much it. Pretty much the way ROB wins matches is by dominating at horizontal zoning and then waiting until he can reliably land his N-air offstage at a high percent.

His recovery is decent until he has to get up from the ledge. His ledge game is TRASH. Whether he's below 100% or above it he has some of the worst ledge options in the game by far and he's pretty much limited to stalling until his opponent screws up, and EVERY ledge getup he has can be punished on reaction. The only ledge games that are worse are basically the ones that Bowser and Donkey Kong have when they are above 100%. His other problem is having one of the worst shields in the game, which really puts a limit on an otherwise solid defensive game.

ROB would have been a much bigger threat if his throws were better, since he's a very good character at landing grabs, although the problem is none of his throws kill or lead to any really good setups.

I see him as upper mid tier at best.

 

[Tin Man]

ROB has good pokes and N-air edgeguarding is super reliable. That's pretty much it. Pretty much the way ROB wins matches is by dominating at horizontal zoning and then waiting until he can reliably land his N-air offstage at a high percent.

Not that reliable =/. Its a really telegraphed move.

His recovery is decent until he has to get up from the ledge. His ledge game is TRASH. Whether he's below 100% or above it he has some of the worst ledge options in the game by far and he's pretty much limited to stalling until his opponent screws up, and EVERY ledge getup he has can be punished on reaction. The only ledge games that are worse are basically the ones that Bowser and Donkey Kong have when they are above 100%. His other problem is having one of the worst shields in the game, which really puts a limit on an otherwise solid defensive game.

ROB would have been a much bigger threat if his throws were better, since he's a very good character at landing grabs, although the problem is none of his throws kill or lead to any really good setups.

His Dthrow has some good followups at low percents vs big & heavy characters

I see him as upper mid tier at best.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Which is why you use N-air for the purpose of edgeguarding where your opponent has limited options for avoiding it.

N-air has a good chance of catching airdodges due to the huge lingering hitbox, and the range of it in general means that most attacks aren't going to stop it from doing its job. Since when you're recovering you generally are moving towards your opponent, I'd consider ROB's N-air to be one of the most reliable edgeguard tools in the game, after something like G&W's D-air on low recoveries. The only thing that is stopping ROB from being too good at edgeguarding is his rather limited air mobility.

 

[Tin Man]

Bair is better for the angle it send you at. Nair would cause damage yet help them recover.

 

[stingers]

yeah tin man is right...nair is only better at really high %s (around 155 and even then only on normals/lights) where it will kill anwyay

 

[-LzR-]

You use nair offstage when it kills, not to gimp.

 

[Nova9000]

I think everyone here has defended ROB's placement well enough, and he is in the correct tier IMO. He's a decent character at best, and may see a rise in the future. Unfortunately, people think of ROB in the 08 mindset and it's up to us ROBs to show them what the new ROB can do. I can see ROB at the top of the C tier one day, but in regards to the next tier list I see ROB goign up not because of any accomplishments that he has made, but because of the lack of performance of other characters. We should be above G & W and Pit, and maybe Kirby.

 

[ccst]

But R.O.B. is never going to be a High Tier, that's for sure. His Nair is too laggy with the startup lag and is not very strong for kills.

And don't prejudice Pit and G&W...

 

[Indigo Jeans]

But R.O.B. is never going to be a High Tier, that's for sure. His Nair is too laggy with the startup lag and is not very strong for kills.

And don't prejudice Pit and G&W...

As opposed to Fair, his biggest asset aerial. SHDF is to ROB as SHTU is to MK, except ours is more usefull. It trips. It stagespikes. It has an amazing hitbox. It eats up projectiles. It's quick, practically lagless. Fair is ROB's all purpose cleaner.

ccst, you're being too emo about this. It seems to me that you're just jumping onto the "ROB is hopeless" bandwagon. Nobody ever said ROB is going to be up there, in there deep with MKs and Snakes and Diddies. I doubt he'll break into top ten. But he has all the tools he needs to make it into even 13-11. He just has a relatively small player base. ROB is the Mewtwo of Brawl. Sparse rep, great tools, all thrown off by a ******** attribute synchronization. You've just got to push yourself to the point where "ROB's build screwed me over" isn't a john. To where the only reason you lost is because the other guy was better than you, or because of some sakurai **** like tripping. If you baw about ROB when you lose and you drop him, that's not going to help you improve with him.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

chibo...

you've never beaten me in a tournament set? you beat me in crews at the end of the day

sorry bro but no timer no ledge grab single matches != a tournament victory

last time we played u won on frigate, which i always lose on, and then got 2 stocked


if you're going to bring my name up as far as victories are concerned, do it wholey and not half-a$$sedly, thanks friend

 

[Hater]

chibo...

you've never beaten me in a tournament set? you beat me in crews at the end of the day

sorry bro but no timer no ledge grab single matches != a tournament victory

last time we played u won on frigate, which i always lose on, and then got 2 stocked


if you're going to bring my name up as far as victories are concerned, do it wholey and not half-a$$sedly, thanks friend

I totally approve this message !!!
Btw R.o.b. should definitely be above pit and kirby where as gnw maybe not so much, at this point in time i agree he should be around 12-13 but we should be able to cahnge that ^^

 

[CT Chia]

I never said I beat you NEO, I said I took you to third game.

 

[ccst]

As opposed to Fair, his biggest asset aerial. SHDF is to ROB as SHTU is to MK, except ours is more usefull. It trips. It stagespikes. It has an amazing hitbox. It eats up projectiles. It's quick, practically lagless. Fair is ROB's all purpose cleaner.

ccst, you're being too emo about this. It seems to me that you're just jumping onto the "ROB is hopeless" bandwagon. Nobody ever said ROB is going to be up there, in there deep with MKs and Snakes and Diddies. I doubt he'll break into top ten. But he has all the tools he needs to make it into even 13-11. He just has a relatively small player base. ROB is the Mewtwo of Brawl. Sparse rep, great tools, all thrown off by a ******** attribute synchronization. You've just got to push yourself to the point where "ROB's build screwed me over" isn't a john. To where the only reason you lost is because the other guy was better than you, or because of some sakurai **** like tripping. If you baw about ROB when you lose and you drop him, that's not going to help you improve with him.

LoL no, the other characters above him have much more potential than R.O.B., so why just not mention their pros too?

 

[Tin Man]

You also have to look at tournament results guys. No ROBs made the top 63 (LOL 63) at apex. Toon Link, Kirby, G&W & ZSS that made it tho. Even Pit made it (Earth). All characters we are supposed to be able to pass yet they out placed us.

Looking at the results for apex tho, apparently PatG used ROB o.O

 

[CT Chia]

I was a single match away from making it to brackets. In my r2 pool besides losing to the other top seed Suinoko I lost to 2 Toon Links, and beat a MK/DK (Dr Granpa) and MK/ICs (Prawn). Both of those MKs beat the TLs making a really awkward tie. There was a 3 way tie for third place between me, DrG, and Prawn. Despite beating both of them I had one less win than Dr G making me get 4th instead of third which is mad lame. The way pools tie breakers were decided there was stupid. Btw this was the third national I had not made it out of pools due to a tie breaker that was decided in someone elses favor for having a single more win that me, despite beating them in the head2head (which the BBR decided is more important than individual win count).

If it was done via head2head and not wins KiraFlax would have also made it to brackets over Inui.

 

[ccst]

You also have to look at tournament results guys. No ROBs made the top 63 (LOL 63) at apex. Toon Link, Kirby, G&W & ZSS that made it tho. Even Pit made it (Earth). All characters we are supposed to be able to pass yet they out placed us.

Looking at the results for apex tho, apparently PatG used ROB o.O

Good example there, and PatG isn't a R.O.B. mainer so he perhaps sandbagged?

 

[Prawn]

I was a single match away from making it to brackets. In my r2 pool besides losing to the other top seed Suinoko I lost to 2 Toon Links, and beat a MK/DK (Dr Granpa) and MK/ICs (Prawn). Both of those MKs beat the TLs making a really awkward tie. There was a 3 way tie for third place between me, DrG, and Prawn. Despite beating both of them I had one less win than Dr G making me get 4th instead of third which is mad lame. The way pools tie breakers were decided there was stupid. Btw this was the third national I had not made it out of pools due to a tie breaker that was decided in someone elses favor for having a single more win that me, despite beating them in the head2head (which the BBR decided is more important than individual win count).

If it was done via head2head and not wins KiraFlax would have also made it to brackets over Inui.

lmao im not an "mk/ic"

i just went mk cause ur rob is annoying as ****

 

[stingers]

umm...that makes you an mk/ic...lmfao

 

[CT Chia]

mission accomplished

 

[ccst]

LoL, so Prawn won even if he's not "an mk/ic"? Wow, Meta Knight surely is broken. =S

 

[CT Chia]

? No I beat Prawn 2-0 and he went MK first match since last time I played him in tourney I made quick work of his ICs.

 

[Tin Man]

So Pound 4, Apex, and what other tourney screwed u chibo?

 

[CT Chia]

Both Apexs, especially the first one

 

[Commander_Beef]

Daaaayuummm sempai.
*goes to search in youtube 'chibo rob vs mk*

 

[CT Chia]

watch me vs any of the MKs from VC7 tournament, theyr all great sets
also me v hinkage from apex 2010 is good

just wait till me v rain is up

 

[Tin Man]

apex's b screwin with Chibo, watch out for pound 5 xD

 

[Indigo Jeans]

LoL no, the other characters above him have much more potential than R.O.B., so why just not mention their pros too?

Uhm, because it wasn't about other characters?...

Think about, the biggest reason why ROB is where he is on the tier list is because of his small representation pool. Chibo, stingers, and a couple other notable ROBs, like Sil. As opposed to the ****load of players characters above him have repping them. That's what's bringing ROB down imo. He has just as much "potential" as Pit, GnW, Kirby, etc., just he's not played enough. I brought those points up because you only cared to bring up the most glaringly obvious cons that have been sucked dry time and time again.