BBR Weekly Character Discussion #8: R.O.B.

[CT Chia]

Is he as good as MK? No
No one is

You're grasping at straws here OS

 

[Overswarm]

Is he as good as MK? No
No one is

You're grasping at straws here OS

ROBs just bad. As time has gone on, he's gone nowhere but down. You and stingers are some of the best remaining ROBs because all the other ROB mains left. You guys do good for the character you're playing, but it's nothing phenomenal in comparison to the other, better characters out there. The arguments used for ROB's viability are similar to those used for low tiers. It's all hypotheticals and "you can make it work; ROB is just a bad character, through and through. I pushed him to his limit for campy gameplay, then MaxxxPower brought about aggro ROB, then Holy comes out of Canada and starts doing crazy stuff, and we all agree that ROB is awful. You're just late to the party.

 

[CT Chia]

Why do I continue to get more and more impressive wins? All of my best wins are recent, and my skill as a player and as a ROB main is continuously increasing. Am I just that amazing of a player that I can pull off such things as a lowly ROB, or is ROB's metagame advancing while others don't as fast or have stalled?

What about looking at his matchups # wise? Despite losing awfully to MK and DDD (he's not the only char that does, think about Lucario), beating or being even with ICs, Diddy, Wario, and Marth is a very important trait I believe as a character.

 

[Cyphus]

slow ninja edited:
i remember thinking rob was top tier early in the game, lol. god-like recovery, good projectile spam, heavy, range, but i honestly dont know what ROB excels at any more. his recovery isn't an issue for some characters now, and either way, he lacks KO power-especially for such a big target + lack of shield options makes him take more damage than most characters once his defenses get breached.
he's doesn't seem to have any specific overwhelming weakness though, so he seems suited enough to represent a player's ability given his sometimes limited or (more often) predictable options. I think he has the 'kirby-syndrome', of usually having the right tool for each situation, but without as much broken/universally applicable moves, the player is forced to be on the reading side of matches to keep the mixups ahead. his n.air can be pretty ridiculous lol

i dont believe our grasp of the game, nor is it sensible, to disect it into 7 or 8 tiers. so i when i say he's mid tier, thats a large group for me and i think thats fair enough.

 

[AllyKnight]

weakness: very big target, cgable, easy to gimp, bad mobility, no good killing moves other than bair up smash.

strong: CAN gimp some chars if done very well

placing, yeah ummm barely anything in the top 10.

conclusion, rob sucks.

 

[TheMike]

cgable

Reall y?

 

[AllyKnight]

Reall y?

some arent >.> but kinda useles lol

 

[TheMike]

some arent >.> but kinda useles lol

King Dedede is the only character with more than two guaranteed grabs if I'm not mistaken, but the same thing happens with almost the entirely cast. ROB can avoid Falco's CG after the second grab if DIed correctly Pikachu can just use some follow ups and the Ice Climbers can CG everybody. However, a harder timing is required for them to do so on ROB.

 

[Cyphus]

yea. rob isn't horrible. he's definitely annoying to scrubs, and only seems helpless vs pros with stronger characters, so he should be comfortable mid, with a low learning curve possibly being his biggest asset to overcome his predictability.

 

[Count]

Since people are saying ROB beats Diddy I want to post why I think the matchup is at least even. For the first ~year or so of brawl I thought Diddy lost this matchup like 6:4. Long post incoming.

ROB has no reliable way of killing diddy. I know this is true for ROB for most characters, but I think it is particularly true for Diddy. Its nearly impossible for ROB to land a usmash vs diddy so his best bet is a bair of the stage which typically isn't difficult to avoid if that is the only thing diddy is looking for.

Uthrow is one of diddy's best tools in this matchup as ROB has a rough time getting to the ground due to his poor aerial mobility and lack of options on the way down. Stages with platforms make this an even bigger problem for ROB, which is why my favorite ROB counterpick is battlefield.

Surprisingly, peanuts annoy ROB just as much or more than any other character. His lack of mobility, large frame, and the peanuts unique arc make for rob avoiding peanuts tougher than most characters. Diddy can also punish ROB while he's attempting to avoid the peanuts.

ROB doesn't really have an answer to diddy's fair from any position. SH fair or just fairs in general ROB pretty much has to time a bair or a perfectly spaced fair might clash. Otherwise, fair is a pretty vital tool against ROB.

Diddy's side b is also an annoyance for ROB. Well spaced side b latches (humps) mixed with kicks if ROB spot dodges make for a rough time for rob. If rob predicts and spaces according he could possibly poke diddy out of it, but this would take precise reads and timing. ROB's large frame makes him more susceptible to the latch

The gyro was previously mentioned as a disturbance for diddy in the matchup but simply walking up and powershielding the gyro mixed in with jumped banana throughs or dribbles as diddy waits for the gyro disappear don't make it too big of an issue. Lasers aren't an issue for the most part if diddy is grounded. I also believe that if diddy can 'mid range zone' rob by staying outside ROB's range of attack but inside Diddy's range for banana throw can make the matchup severely difficult for ROB. When I'm playing ROB I like to imagine that ROB and diddy are puppets connected at the top for the previously mentioned spacing, and that I must keep that spacing in order to be successful.


Of course ROB has lots of stuff on diddy like an excellent banana game and the ability to gimp him but I don't think that is enough to just call the matchup in ROB's favor. I think it is at least even.


I do believe I do have some merit to make these claims as well, I've had success against numerous ROB mains and have played Mister E, Mister Eric, Sil, T0mmy, Sneaky Taco, and Overswarm's ROBs. I'm just namedropping to prove that I have a fairly decent idea about the matchup all of the ROBs I've played are extremely talented which is why my success thus far leads me to believe the matchup is even or even slightly in diddy's favor.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Since people are saying ROB beats Diddy I want to post why I think the matchup is at least even. For the first ~year or so of brawl I thought Diddy lost this matchup like 6:4. Long post incoming.

ROB has no reliable way of killing diddy. I know this is true for ROB for most characters, but I think it is particularly true for Diddy. Its nearly impossible for ROB to land a usmash vs diddy so his best bet is a bair of the stage which typically isn't difficult to avoid if that is the only thing diddy is looking for.

I usually just spam until I can glide toss to throw Diddy off stage, it solves the problem pretty well. Projectile + fair work well, but hilariously, an offstage Forward B will actually kill Diddy a lot.

Uthrow is one of diddy's best tools in this matchup as ROB has a rough time getting to the ground due to his poor aerial mobility and lack of options on the way down. Stages with platforms make this an even bigger problem for ROB, which is why my favorite ROB counterpick is battlefield.

Actually, you're completely correct, this stage sucks for the matchup (especially since ROB can't hit through a platform with a banana on it because he'll trip under it like a ****ing ******)

Surprisingly, peanuts annoy ROB just as much or more than any other character. His lack of mobility, large frame, and the peanuts unique arc make for rob avoiding peanuts tougher than most characters. Diddy can also punish ROB while he's attempting to avoid the peanuts.

Not really. Spammed laser wins out here. as does throwing or firing gyro. We get more out of it than diddy does.

ROB doesn't really have an answer to diddy's fair from any position. SH fair or just fairs in general ROB pretty much has to time a bair or a perfectly spaced fair might clash. Otherwise, fair is a pretty vital tool against ROB.

Gnes is the only Diddy who has ever tried to do this to me. If ROB shields, he can jab or tilt before Diddy can react after doing a fair, though it is amazing against ROB in the air no doubt.

Diddy's side b is also an annoyance for ROB. Well spaced side b latches (humps) mixed with kicks if ROB spot dodges make for a rough time for rob. If rob predicts and spaces according he could possibly poke diddy out of it, but this would take precise reads and timing. ROB's large frame makes him more susceptible to the latch

Fun fact, did you know ROB can grab Diddy Kong's Side B right out of the air before being hit/latched? That's a regular grab, not pivot. Very savvy ROB players might also have the presence of mind to just laser at anything other than very close range.

The gyro was previously mentioned as a disturbance for diddy in the matchup but simply walking up and powershielding the gyro mixed in with jumped banana throughs or dribbles as diddy waits for the gyro disappear don't make it too big of an issue. Lasers aren't an issue for the most part if diddy is grounded. I also believe that if diddy can 'mid range zone' rob by staying outside ROB's range of attack but inside Diddy's range for banana throw can make the matchup severely difficult for ROB. When I'm playing ROB I like to imagine that ROB and diddy are puppets connected at the top for the previously mentioned spacing, and that I must keep that spacing in order to be successful.

If the gyro is spinning on the ground and you try to move in to disable it, even by powershielding, you're taking damage. A Diddy trying to powershield is going to get grabbed. i think you're underestimating how close ROB should be standing to his own gyro. Lasers are an issue if you plan to be throwing anything while my gyro is grounded, because in that case I'll win. Jumped throws are so telegraphed over Gyro that it is very easy to catch the banana (thus effectively giving myself three projectiles) or instant throw it back, which is actually very easy. I prefer to keep the banana to set up grabs if I can. The best bet is to try and come in right as the gyro disappears before ROB spawns another one.

I don't think ROB annihilates Diddy or anything, but I believe it is probably slightly ROB's favor on most stages where Diddy is forced into ROB's camp game. I actually prefer stages like FD and Smashville in this matchup now (though I'll always have Rainbow Cruise and other characters I guess lol). Besides the two local diddys here (4rce & Royal Nynja), I've had plenty of past experience with Le Thien, Fliphop and Gnes, so I like to think I know what I'm talking about as well.

Personally I think the matchup is pretty much even overall. Slightly ROB's favor at best. The stage list heavily favors ROB over diddy, which I think helps quite a bit. I've changed my mind about this matchup a lot over time, but the more I have learned to use bananas as a tool for myself, the more I find myself easing into a comfortable position on it.

Apologies for any really bad typos, I'm really tired right now

 

[Overswarm]

King Dedede is the only character with more than two guaranteed grabs if I'm not mistaken, but the same thing happens with almost the entirely cast. ROB can avoid Falco's CG after the second grab if DIed correctly(at least I can avoid it), Pikachu can just use some follow ups and the Ice Climbers can CG everybody. However, a harder timing is required for them to do so on ROB.

Falco can fully CG ROB if he buffers his CG properly, WC found this out and spammed it vs. HugS aaaaaages ago.

 

[The Real Inferno]

I thought that might be the case, but I've ran into exactly 1 Falco who ever did a CG I couldn't get out of, so I wasn't sure if I was just ****ing up.

 

[TheMike]

Falco can fully CG ROB if he buffers his CG properly, WC found this out and spammed it vs. HugS aaaaaages ago.

Do you know until what % ROB can be CGed?

 

[Overswarm]

Do you know until what % ROB can be CGed?

Same as most others. He ends up in the 50-60% after the dair. Look up old videos of HugS playing vs. Falco on WC

 

[TheMike]

Ty. Will do so.

 

[CT Chia]

It's not that much OS
It's more than some people think, but not that much. It def doesn't hit the 50 mark after a dair, it'll be in the 40s

 

[TheMike]

Ehh, seems like some tests are needed. I will try to get some data.

 

[CT Chia]

i doubt 10% from falcos cg changes robs tier spot, he already loses badly to falco, who cares
10% wont make it better to be his 4th worst matchup, and it wont make it worse enough to be his 2nd

 

[TheMike]

But it would be nice to know exactly until what % Falco can CG him. :] The more we know, the better.

 

[Count]

Not really. Spammed laser wins out here. as does throwing or firing gyro. We get more out of it than diddy does.

It isn't difficult to powershield spammed lasers. There's a vid of me doing it multiple times in a row against OS. Same goes for the gyro. Just watch ROB more than you do diddy.



Fun fact, did you know ROB can grab Diddy Kong's Side B right out of the air before being hit/latched? That's a regular grab, not pivot. Very savvy ROB players might also have the presence of mind to just laser at anything other than very close range.

I'm pretty sure every character can do this, haha. It takes insanely good reaction time to not predict and just react to grabbing a smashed side B. Rob is better off using his fsmash to beat diddy's side b, which is nice for him because not many characters have a move that can do this. Of course he has to space it correctly/have a good read..



If the gyro is spinning on the ground and you try to move in to disable it, even by powershielding, you're taking damage. A Diddy trying to powershield is going to get grabbed. i think you're underestimating how close ROB should be standing to his own gyro. Lasers are an issue if you plan to be throwing anything while my gyro is grounded, because in that case I'll win. Jumped throws are so telegraphed over Gyro that it is very easy to catch the banana (thus effectively giving myself three projectiles) or instant throw it back, which is actually very easy. I prefer to keep the banana to set up grabs if I can. The best bet is to try and come in right as the gyro disappears before ROB spawns another one.

As long as it isn't obvious diddy shouldn't be taking damage when he moves in to powershield the gyro. Maybe you're better at standing near your gyro than most ROB's, but if you're super close to the gyro the banana will just hit you anyway. The gyro is a slight annoyance but it doesn't make or break the matchup.

I don't think ROB annihilates Diddy or anything, but I believe it is probably slightly ROB's favor on most stages where Diddy is forced into ROB's camp game. I actually prefer stages like FD and Smashville in this matchup now (though I'll always have Rainbow Cruise and other characters I guess lol). Besides the two local diddys here (4rce & Royal Nynja), I've had plenty of past experience with Le Thien, Fliphop and Gnes, so I like to think I know what I'm talking about as well.

I know you know what you're talking about haha, and all those diddy's are great so I'm sure you've got you stuff together. We're actually pretty much in agreement that the matchup is evenish, we just have differing views on some specifics. Talking about these kinds of things is fun ^_^

Personally I think the matchup is pretty much even overall. Slightly ROB's favor at best. The stage list heavily favors ROB over diddy, which I think helps quite a bit. I've changed my mind about this matchup a lot over time, but the more I have learned to use bananas as a tool for myself, the more I find myself easing into a comfortable position on it.

Agreed about changing mind about matchup over time. At one point I might've thought ROB was diddy's worst matchup, haha. Such a fun matchup

Apologies for any really bad typos, I'm really tired right now

answers in boldddddd. I love this matchup, both players can annoy each other so well haha.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Hey, I can grab the Side B and I have crappy reaction time. It can't be -that- hard. (Also I'm not sure if every character can do it. I've not tried, but usually when I grab it with ROB, it was very close, but that's neither here nor there). It is probably one of the most fun matchups in the game though, I agree lol

 

[-LzR-]

Chibo, give me one good reason why Rob loses to Falco.

 

[CT Chia]

its near impossible for ROB to get through Falco's lasers + illusion camping

It's very hard to edgeguard Falco, nothing ROB has goes through illusion. Or should I say nothing good... His nair and bair do but nair is incredibly slow and bair is so incredibly telephraphed Falco would then go to the ledge. It's almost better to chip on enough damage and kill with dsmash. Prob with chipping on damage in the matchup though is Falco's reflector makes that a tough job.

Fortunately it is INCREDIBLY hard for Falco to kill ROB, like more so than normal for Falco. I generally live to over 200% every stock in this matchup, but it's not enough to help.

 

[TheMike]

kill with dsmash

Kill with Dsmash??

 

[Mister Eric]

I actually believe that R.O.B. is a very underrated character and that his spot on the tier list will move up (a great deal), but in due time. There has been talk for some time now of how ROB has a ceiling (HugS) that he can't seem to pass. This would match up with his linear/predictable claim. And the only reason this happens is because the bulk of R.O.B. mains left either get discouraged to leave him for another character, or get brainwashed to play a set way because R.O.B. "has" to in order to do well. Well, I like to believe that I play a pretty unorthodox R.O.B.. And with this style of not treating him as a one dimensional character, I've began to see greater success with him. Not to mention, the introduction of what R.O.B. can do with his b-reversals and wavebouncing, I believe, will really help out his floatiness and overall metagame once the remaining R.O.B. players can polish this up.

Sadly, I can't do much arguing at the moment for our little robot. It just irks me how many of you fail to see any potential in him. I think, for now, he isn't any worse than C tier, nor better because he hasn't proved to be better. Though, I do think he will be as high as A again.

/beep

 

[TheMike]

Concerning the Falco CG on ROB...

Okay, so, you're probably not going to believe this, but I don't think Falco has an actual chaingrab on ROB. I did the walking CG and the running CG, buffering, etc., but ROB could usually just airdodge after the first DThrow, fresh, 0%.

Taken from the Falco board's CG Breakdown thread:

ROB
Walking Chaingrab : 0-18% (2 times)
Running Chaingrab : 0-18 % (2 times)
Counters : Jump (18%); Fair (?? %)

I don't know. I'm no Falco main, I might've done something imperfect when chaingrabbing. But I suggest you take the Falco board's word for it. Two grabs seems right given decay, knockback, and hitstun. Also keep in mind that the thread stated that the CG data was gathered in training mode, which has no decay, but it doesn't give moves the "fresh" bonus either. I tested in an actual match though, refreshing DThrow as neccessary and SDing to put ROB back to 0% after each trial.

Post this in the thread if you want, or I could if that's what you'd like.

 

[stingers]

the real inferno, how come you never post on the rob boards?

and cool read I guess

I'm going to drop MK and go all ROB from now on so you're wrong chibo =p

i embrace the hopelessness, it's far more exciting then MK.

 

[Silhouette]

I backup and agree with what Eric said.

Though I can't say much for how much I feel he will rise on the tier list, but he is better than people give him credit for.

cept vs MK.

 

[The Real Inferno]

For a few reasons. Generally speaking, I don't like to post in character boards because a lot of people are very close minded about their characters. I grew very tired of that attitude a long time ago. For the most part, I'll post when I'm asked to, otherwise, I just read and let other people chat it up.

 

[TheMike]

Inferno, post more in here. You can change.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Ehh, seems like some tests are needed. I will try to get some data.

its near impossible for ROB to get through Falco's lasers + illusion camping

It's very hard to edgeguard Falco, nothing ROB has goes through illusion. Or should I say nothing good... His nair and bair do but nair is incredibly slow and bair is so incredibly telephraphed Falco would then go to the ledge. It's almost better to chip on enough damage and kill with dsmash. Prob with chipping on damage in the matchup though is Falco's reflector makes that a tough job.

Fortunately it is INCREDIBLY hard for Falco to kill ROB, like more so than normal for Falco. I generally live to over 200% every stock in this matchup, but it's not enough to help.[/QUOTE]

Uh, kill with DSmash? You sure? I only use DSmash in this matchup for damage racking and stopping illusion.

Yep, ROB has a terrible time KOing Falco. Most of your KOs in this MU will come from gimping and mindgames. You've got to force the Falco into a sort of rock-paper-scissors game, where you've got the advantage. Offstage. You've got a full laser and gyro on you. What will you do? What will the Falco do? In this matchup, you've got to keep as many options open to you as possible. Keep Falco guessing. You need to know gyro and laser's kill per cents better than he does. You can laser/gyro from an advantageous enough position that if he reflects either of your projectiles, you can punish him on the Shine's lag for a KO. Or, if they don't reflect it, two things can happen. Falco will either be sent off close to blastline, far enough to where you can't get there in time for the KO, but not far enough to BE KO'd, or he will be KO'd.

Protip: map shield to X to powershield all of Falco's lasers a lot easier. From my knowledge, this originated in the Lucario boards, also for this MU, but that's not the point. Just start powershielding before you eat too much damage and are pressured to the edge. X-shield will help out loads.[/collapse]

 

[TheMike]

PMing smart people is a good way to get data. :]

Thanks for doing it, btw. I think was right when said that DDD is the only character with more than two guaranteed grabs on ROB.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

PMing smart people is a good way to get data. :]

Thanks for doing it, btw. I think was right when said that DDD is the only character with more than two guaranteed grabs on ROB.

I could also test Pika's FThrow and DThrow chaingrabs. I'm decent with Pika, so I'm pretty sure I can get the buffer down right on those.

 

[CT Chia]

I'm going to drop MK and go all ROB from now on so you're wrong chibo =p

i embrace the hopelessness, it's far more exciting then MK.

yaaaay

^this is what happens when you spend a weekend with chibo lol

 

[TheMike]

I could also test Pika's FThrow and DThrow chaingrabs. I'm decent with Pika, so I'm pretty sure I can get the buffer down right on those.

As far as I know, Pikachu can't CG ROB. He only has some decent follow ups, mainly for the Dthrow.

 

[Mr.E]

The whole projectile camping thing has been overrated ever since people figured out it's pretty **** simple to powershield lasers on reaction but ROB can still straight up out-space most characters with his Tilts and FAir. Does anyone complain that Marth is oh-so-incredibly-easy to close in against? His stuff is disjointed but the range and speed on ROB's attacks is quite similar, plus most "trades" will be in his favor because ROB is a heavy character.

His raw killing power is poor but anyone who thinks he sucks at edgeguarding is a fool. For example, his FAir can progressively gimp people WoP-style, similar to that of Dedede's BAir or Marth's FAir, except ROB has the mobility and recovery to chase people longer and further out from the ledge. His projectiles are actually at their best here, being killing tools in themselves near the boundary and forcing the opponent down into a more compromising position if they do dodge them. BAir's lingering hitbox makes it tough on some recoveries and ledgedropped it's a nigh-guaranteed kill against characters that tend to be forced to the ledge (e.g. Marth).

Hey, ROB's an all-around solid character. If ROB traded in his projectiles for disjointed hitboxes, he would be Marth. His match-up grid is pretty solid overall. The whole MK thing is a big bummer but everyone loses to MK anyway and it sure doesn't seem to stop some of these other, better characters from still being rated highly (Dedede, Marth, Lucario). Being arguably favored in quite a few other upper-tier match-ups also has to count for something, right?

And in the end, those who disagree will simply dismiss points as being not-actually-that-relevant, blagh blagh blagh... ultimately nothing changes because ROB has poor representation and isn't MK. I still think he's a Top 10 character but whatever, lol me. He's certainly ****ing better than Pit and Lucario.

 

[Mister Eric]

yaaaay

^this is what happens when you spend a weekend with chibo lol

but what if you already go all R.O.B....?

...maybe I'd beep moar. xP

 

[z00ted]

I personally think R.O.B needs to drop. He's far too linear (like Kirby and GnW) and although he doesn't have a multiple amount of glaring matchups he does have a good amount that are not in his favor or equal at that. The only high tier character that he has an advantage on would be the Ice Climbers - unlike other mid tier characters. His kill moves are extremely predictable and not too strong at that (unlike GnW and Kirby) and his camping is overated - we have learned how to powershield lasers and gyros.

R.O.B doesn't beat Diddy...

The only thing I can see keeping R.O.B at his current placement is his incredible ability in DI and surviving at high percentages.

Everything else has been said.

 

[CT Chia]

*facepalm*