Official Battlefield of the Gods - Pit / Dark Pit Matchup Discussion *Corrin, Samus, Shulk*

[Skyfox2000]

Can you please give some more insight?

A boi like you don't need insight.

 

[Koiba]

A boi like you don't need insight.

yes i do though

 

[Sensane]

I think that my cloud notes are enough insight.

 

[Koiba]

But that's not TOO much insight though imo

Gonna tag some Cloud mains just in case k?


TTTTTsd @XenoBrawler610

 

[TTTTTsd]

Not gonna give a ratio since IDK lol but I can give you some things I guess.

- Orbitars vs. Uair is a good-ish idea but mind your platforms. If you're on a stage like BF I can just AC my Uair and wait for your orbitars to drop.
- Arrow camping is a no-no, I think it was stated before but felt like reiterating.
- Respect Cloud Nair, be wary of Fullhop Double Nair or Fullhop Nair > Action, it's a very strong tool in neutral and Cloud can get away with it a lot.
- Your best spacing aerial in this MU is Fair, for sure. Just be warned, your arm hurtbox on Fair might end up leading to some trades or losing to disjoint as Cloud's disjoint lacks a lot of his own hurtboxes (quite silly).
- Be careful of going to the ledge on recovery if Cloud has Limit. Limit Break Blade Beam is a free 2 frame ledgesnap punish and reversed Limit Break Cross Slash is very dangerous to recover against when going towards the ledge. I'd say use Side-B if possible as Pit/Dark Pit.
- Cloud's recovery is bad but only relatively so. When forcing him offstage try and use moves that disallow upwards DI to attain a solid vertical angle. If Cloud is recovering from above the ledge at any point he's generally guaranteed to make it back, Limit or otherwise, if he recovers smartly. Forcing horizontal is the way to go, Dark Pit Side-B is probably super better in this matchup specifically, although probably not game changing in its existence.

I can only be a lil general since I lack Cloud vs. Pit knowledge specifically (perhaps Koiba and I could play again + other people when my time is free yet again) but this stuff seems general and useful enough.

 

[ReRaze]

Limit break alone makes cloud go at least even with anyone tbh.

But in general just some pointers from a Pit perspective

-Pit can outspace cloud on a plethora of his moves, uair beats dair, Dair beats clouds uair (if you space perfectly), Alot of Pit's moves outspace nair (e.g even our pivot grab)...the only thing we can't outspace is fair and I think bair but like it's best to just respect those moves and punish on whiff. Also If all else fails, just super armour through everything if you see cloud going for an aerial

-Pit doesn't get juggled as easily with alot of options to choose from, Dair, Side B (try to ledge cancel or ledge snap so you don't get punished), multiple jumps, Down B (if he uairs you he goes flying away). Cloud is a little better at covering our options near the ground though, especially with the added option of usmash which is a crazy anti-air.

-Dealing with cloud at the ledge is fun, we have alot of options. Dair outright beats his Up B and my favourite option is Electroshock, if he doesn't 'sweetspot' the ledge properly it will knock him back at a terrible angle most likely killing him and if it somehow misses you can space it such that your Side B ledge cancels which leaves you in a safe position or let's you ledge trump him as a mixup. Some other options are Down B and Down Smash buuttt down b doesnt always work against a good cloud and it's hard to even trade with dsmash (though the knockback angle is murder against cloud).

-Also for the record you CAN camp cloud but only after he get's his limit, imo this is optimal because when Pit camps he plays extremely defensively and it's hard to punish him so you almost never put yourself at risk of geting hit with a limit break move (because well, full hop arrows have no endlag; talking about Pit btw, Dark Pit can't do this).

-Don't Pick Battlefield against cloud ever, not only can Pit not camp but it gives cloud more camping options and extends his uair combos and makes it harder for us to land against uair as TTTTsd mentioned. Same goes for dreamland to an extent. Imo our best stages are (definitely) FD, Town and City followed by smashville. Yeah I know alot of people say don't pick smashville against cloud because it extends his recovery options but if Cloud chooses to recover onto that platform he risks losing a stock extremely early to Pit's fthrow. I don't think many other characters can punish cloud as hard there. Also it's not hard to react to whether a cloud will go to a ledge or the platform.

All that being said my Cloud experience is limited too, I think getting more Cloud mains to talk about things from their perspective would really shed some light on this MU because we definitely know our advantages against cloud but honestly I haven't seen much talking about our disadvantages against him.

 

[NoahZark]

Almost thought this thread was gonna be dead, but it seems like it'll live on so yay! I just wanna thank you guys for the tips on the Cloud matchup, cause I have huge problems with that matchup, and I've never really known why.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I'm new here but I can tell you something about the Yoshi match up in this match up eggs are gonna be a problem but what ever you do don't reflect them you have to play really agessive and not give him the chance to start camping arrows pop eggs ( it's just something I thought I should say) if the Yoshi your playing starts being agessive then fall back and go for a bait and punish game and whatever you do don't get fair spike again I'm new here so I don't know if this will help our not but if it doesn't don't pick pit pick bayo ( since she's the new best fighter in the game) kappa

 

[Sensane]

I'm new here but I can tell you something about the Yoshi match up in this match up eggs are gonna be a problem but what ever you do don't reflect them you have to play really agessive and not give him the chance to start camping arrows pop eggs ( it's just something I thought I should say) if the Yoshi your playing starts being agessive fall back and go for a bait and punish game and whatever you do don't get fair spike again I'm new here so I don't know if this will help our not but if it doesn't don't pick pit pick bayo ( since she's the new best fighter in the game) kappa

1. Fix your grammar; everything runs on so much that even Sonic is saying that you're going too fast.
2. Why would you not reflect the eggs? That's like saying don't shield or dodge an opponent's dash attack.
3. Welcome to Smashboards
4. We've been saying not to play aggressive against Yoshi because the mu requires patience and proper zoning.
5. I don't think that Bayonetta is the new "best character"; it's just because no one knew how to DI against her combos properly, but now with Mekos back he's making some anti-bayonetta guides that should be significant.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

1. Fix your grammar; everything runs on so much that even Sonic is saying that you're going too fast.
2. Why would you not reflect the eggs? That's like saying don't shield or dodge an opponent's dash attack.
3. Welcome to Smashboards
4. We've been saying not to play aggressive against Yoshi because the mu requires patience and proper zoning.
5. I don't think that Bayonetta is the new "best character"; it's just because no one knew how to DI against her combos properly, but now with Mekos back he's making some anti-bayonetta guides that should be significant.

1. This is why I never do good on a essay
2. Thanks this still feels weird since I'm always on ladder
3.I said play agessive because when my friend plays pit he always plays agessive and it seems to work for him maybe I'm just a scrub
4. Wait so who is the new best fighter? I'm confused

 

[NoahZark]

I'm new here but I can tell you something about the Yoshi match up in this match up eggs are gonna be a problem but what ever you do don't reflect them you have to play really agessive and not give him the chance to start camping arrows pop eggs ( it's just something I thought I should say) if the Yoshi your playing starts being agessive then fall back and go for a bait and punish game and whatever you do don't get fair spike again I'm new here so I don't know if this will help our not but if it doesn't don't pick pit pick bayo ( since she's the new best fighter in the game) kappa

Is the reason that we shouldn't reflect eggs because when we reflect them they don't go in a direction where they will hit Yoshi?

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Is the reason that we shouldn't reflect eggs because when we reflect them they don't go in a direction where they will hit Yoshi?

Exactly and our reflector is laggy so he'll bait it out and punish ous when it drops

 

[NoahZark]

Exactly and our reflector is laggy so he'll bait it out and punish ous when it drops

Cool, dude, good insight. I'll keep that in mind

 

[KiyoXDragon]

I'd have to say that Pit/Dark Pit has an extreme disadvantage over Ike, because of his range and the ability to hit you like a truck, and how heavy he is compared to Pit/Dark Pit. He is good at keeping you out with his aerials. /rage

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I'd have to say that Pit/Dark Pit has an extreme disadvantage over Ike, because of his range and the ability to hit you like a truck, and how heavy he is compared to Pit/Dark Pit. He is good at keeping you out with his aerials. /rage

Maybe this is why I always lose to him, besides little mac Ike is my least liked character.

 

[Koiba]

I'd have to say that Pit/Dark Pit has an extreme disadvantage over Ike, because of his range and the ability to hit you like a truck, and how heavy he is compared to Pit/Dark Pit. He is good at keeping you out with his aerials. /rage

I would have to disagree with the MU being an "extreme disadvantage"

We can gimp Ike, we have better frame data, and combo potential

I would say it's more even or in our favour

 

[Sensane]

I'd have to say that Pit/Dark Pit has an extreme disadvantage over Ike, because of his range and the ability to hit you like a truck, and how heavy he is compared to Pit/Dark Pit. He is good at keeping you out with his aerials. /rage

1. Where did Ike come into this? We're discussing Cloud, Yoshi, and Marth. Ike isn't even being discussed yet.
2. Both characters have the same range.

 

[Koiba]

1. Where did Ike come into this? We're discussing Cloud, Yoshi, and Marth. Ike isn't even being discussed yet.
2. Both characters have the same range.

Maybe it's time for a new topic
I would say Ike has slight more range, but is a bit slower in the frame data part

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Can we please talk about mewtwo a character I know please

 

[Sensane]

CHOMPY are we dead yet?

 

[CHOMPY]

What's the verdict on the character match ups?

 

[Sensane]

IMO:

(55:45)
(50:50)
(60:40)

 

[KiyoXDragon]

1. Where did Ike come into this? We're discussing Cloud, Yoshi, and Marth. Ike isn't even being discussed yet.
2. Both characters have the same range.

I didn't know, sorry Jade.
Ike has way more range than Dark Pit believe me I know, I always lose to him. Similarly Ike relates to Cloud on being a terrible match up for Pit, fast hits and ability to kill early leaving Pit not able to finish his combos. Cloud has a better range thus is sword takes priority over your weapons, affecting your ability to hit him in the air, it's a bit easier on the ground I found. I do have trouble with Yoshi because of his strong smash attacks that end the game early, I feel you have to dodge Yoshi and shield much more, Yoshi is a hard match up. Marth isn't too bad.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I didn't know, sorry Jade.
Ike has way more range than Dark Pit believe me I know, I always lose to him. Similarly Ike relates to Cloud on being a terrible match up for Pit, fast hits and ability to kill early leaving Pit not able to finish his combos. Cloud has a better range thus is sword takes priority over your weapons, affecting your ability to hit him in the air, it's a bit easier on the ground I found. I do have trouble with Yoshi because of his strong smash attacks that end the game early, I feel you have to dodge Yoshi and shield much more, Yoshi is a hard match up. Marth isn't too bad.

I agree with this I ususally switch to samus when I fight Ike Yoshi I really don't have to much of a problem against mostly because I use him

 

[ReRaze]

I didn't know, sorry Jade.
Ike has way more range than Dark Pit believe me I know, I always lose to him. Similarly Ike relates to Cloud on being a terrible match up for Pit, fast hits and ability to kill early leaving Pit not able to finish his combos. Cloud has a better range thus is sword takes priority over your weapons, affecting your ability to hit him in the air, it's a bit easier on the ground I found. I do have trouble with Yoshi because of his strong smash attacks that end the game early, I feel you have to dodge Yoshi and shield much more, Yoshi is a hard match up. Marth isn't too bad.

I agree with this I ususally switch to samus when I fight Ike Yoshi I really don't have to much of a problem against mostly because I use him

If Ike is outranging your attacks you are probably playing the MU wrong . You're not supposed to try outspace people with longer range than you (though to be fair there are certain moves in Pit's arsenal that outrange some moves of Ike). Generally in these matches you wanna play defensive, spam some full hop arrows, force Ike to approach and commit to an option that you can then punish, Punish his landings with side b (range means nothing to superarmour and both Pit's and Dark Pit's side bs work well, Pit launches them up for juggles and Dark Pit will often take them offstage so abuse it.), Dash attack, ftilt, fsmash, etc. Stay near the ledge when camping so that there is a high chance you can get him offstage (where there is a 90% chance Ike will die, his recovery is terrible). If he jumps, Ike has commited to an option, be ready to shield or dodge, or if you are up close, use a quick option that comes out before any of his moves (should mention just watchout for tomahawk mixups or bairs (I think we can only punish bair with Dash attack)). Ike's landing options are especially bad, once he leaves the ground keep him in the air.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

If Ike is outranging your attacks you are probably playing the MU wrong . You're not supposed to try outspace people with longer range than you (though to be fair there are certain moves in Pit's arsenal that outrange some moves of Ike). Generally in these matches you wanna play defensive, spam some full hop arrows, force Ike to approach and commit to an option that you can then punish, Punish his landings with side b (range means nothing to superarmour and both Pit's and Dark Pit's side bs work well, Pit launches them up for juggles and Dark Pit will often take them offstage so abuse it.), Dash attack, ftilt, fsmash, etc. Stay near the ledge when camping so that there is a high chance you can get him offstage (where there is a 90% chance Ike will die, his recovery is terrible). If he jumps, Ike has commited to an option, be ready to shield or dodge, or if you are up close, use a quick option that comes out before any of his moves. Ike's landing options are especially bad, once he leaves the ground keep him in the air.

Great info man but what about jab

 

[ReRaze]

Great info man but what about jab

That's one of the moves we outrange

using edit to avoid another off topic post, sorry chompy pls don't infract meh

Edit: Ooops yeah you're right, who wants to discuss Ike next then? (just to keep the stuff above relevant )

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Ya know thinking about this

That's one of the moves we outrange

Ya know thinking about all of this I realize how of topic we are lol

 

[Sensane]

I didn't know, sorry Jade.
Ike has way more range than Dark Pit believe me I know, I always lose to him. Similarly Ike relates to Cloud on being a terrible match up for Pit, fast hits and ability to kill early leaving Pit not able to finish his combos. Cloud has a better range thus is sword takes priority over your weapons, affecting your ability to hit him in the air, it's a bit easier on the ground I found. I do have trouble with Yoshi because of his strong smash attacks that end the game early, I feel you have to dodge Yoshi and shield much more, Yoshi is a hard match up. Marth isn't too bad.

You got my Tales of the Abyss reference =D

Also with both characters our goal is to get them offstage so that we can get an easy gimp. Cloud does have fast attacks, but Ike's only really fast attacks (from what I can remember) are b-air, d-tilt, and I think dash attack. Everything else is slow compared to our superior frame data. I'd say more, but I say that we should save it for when CHOMPY is ready to go over new characters.

Yeah, Yoshi can be pretty annoying, but it just requires patience and more emphasis on defensive play and forcing him to approach. Then again, Pits in general require patience at all times; with honesty like what we have, it can be easy to lose patience. It's likely the same reason why KiraFlax is infamous for his salt (though to be fair he did place high at some Brawl tournaments, but I'm not sure if he's done so in any Sm4sh tourneys).

 

[Koiba]

I realize how of topic we are lol

Well, we were on this topic for quite a while.

For new chars def voting on


Gonna go get the quotes now~ Wintropy seems busy atm so we'll just wait on her or Chomps will edit in the links

 

[Y2Kay]

god dang it I miss Wintropy so much

 

[KiyoXDragon]

If Ike is outranging your attacks you are probably playing the MU wrong . You're not supposed to try outspace people with longer range than you (though to be fair there are certain moves in Pit's arsenal that outrange some moves of Ike). Generally in these matches you wanna play defensive, spam some full hop arrows, force Ike to approach and commit to an option that you can then punish, Punish his landings with side b (range means nothing to superarmour and both Pit's and Dark Pit's side bs work well, Pit launches them up for juggles and Dark Pit will often take them offstage so abuse it.), Dash attack, ftilt, fsmash, etc. Stay near the ledge when camping so that there is a high chance you can get him offstage (where there is a 90% chance Ike will die, his recovery is terrible). If he jumps, Ike has commited to an option, be ready to shield or dodge, or if you are up close, use a quick option that comes out before any of his moves (should mention just watchout for tomahawk mixups or bairs (I think we can only punish bair with Dash attack)). Ike's landing options are especially bad, once he leaves the ground keep him in the air.

Oh my goodness, this sounds helpful, I will have to try these. I do vote for Ike in the next discussion as well, I do feel like Yoshi can outspeed me when I try to attack and or dodge.

 

[CHOMPY]

How about we talk about these characters.





As of today, we will begin discussing these characters. I will update the matchup ratios on the front page.

 

[Y2Kay]

Alrighty, Mewtwo!

Ima get a rant going once I'm done with this work, but spoiler alert I think it's even

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

How about we talk about these characters.





As of today, we will begin discussing these characters. I will update the matchup ratios on the front page.

Yassssssssss MEWTWO thank you great savior CHOMPY

 

[NoahZark]

I'll be talking about the matchup in this post.

Pit and Wario have similar frame data, so neither character gets an advantage there. Pit does out range Wario, which does greatly help Pit. One thing to note though, is that Wario is pretty heavy, and with his good recovery, he can survive for very long periods, and he can kill Pit fairly early, so keep that in mind.

Pit has some good tools for this matchup. Ftilt is amazing here. Its over all a great poke tool, and it stops him when he tries to come in with an aerial. Also, Wario's aerials aren't exactly safe on shield, so you should be able to get some grabs and dthrow combos if he approaches that way. I personally think that the bike isnt hard to deal with, because you can shield or fair him out of it, though I know some people have a lot of trouble with it. I think its a good tool, but Pit can beat it, so respect it but don't fear it. As those things are his main ways of approaching, your main focus should be on making Wario approach, which can be accomplished by shooting arrows and the like. One other advantage Pit has is that Wario is much easier to edgeguard that Pit. I don't know if anyone else has tried, but you can hit Wario with fair when he's using his bike off-stage, so that's a plus for us. Also, when he is forced to use his up-b, it's linear, so you can definitely spike him if that happens. I have usually found myself respecting the Wario offstage though, and instead focused on winning the neutral, so I'd like to see if anyone else has input on how easy it is go gimp Wario (you can yell at me if I'm wrong, I'd like to make sure my Info's right anyways.)

As for the tools that Wario has, there isn't as many. He can definitely punish a Pit that likes to approach with well-timed tilts and aerials, so the focus should always be on making the Wario approach. Also, with his good recovery, he has no problem going offstage and trying to stage-spike of otherwise edgeguard Pits, so keep your teching skills primed. AND WATCH OUT FOR THR WAFT! Seriously! The waft is Wario's best tool. Do not underestimate it. Getting hit by the waft is a complete game changer as it leads to very early kills and the like. When Wario has the waft you just gotta respect him and play it even more safe than normal. Oh, and he also has generally good kill power, so watch out for that even if he has no really easy kill confirms or anything.

Overall, I wanna say Pit has an advantage in this matchup, but I think it's pretty even. I do believe that Pit wins, but he just doesn't have anything huge going for him that make me believe in him without a doubt. Also, I've have some Wario players pull some amazing plays from out of nowhere on me, so I've come to respect Wario a lot. But overall, I think Pit has a more solid strategy in this matchup and that makes him win.

 

[Sensane]

Pit[too] can use dash grab against Wario's bike without getting hit.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I'll be talking about the matchup in this post.

Pit and Wario have similar frame data, so neither character gets an advantage there. Pit does out range Wario, which does greatly help Pit. One thing to note though, is that Wario is pretty heavy, and with his good recovery, he can survive for very long periods, and he can kill Pit fairly early, so keep that in mind.

Pit has some good tools for this matchup. Ftilt is amazing here. Its over all a great poke tool, and it stops him when he tries to come in with an aerial. Also, Wario's aerials aren't exactly safe on shield, so you should be able to get some grabs and dthrow combos if he approaches that way. I personally think that the bike isnt hard to deal with, because you can shield or fair him out of it, though I know some people have a lot of trouble with it. I think its a good tool, but Pit can beat it, so respect it but don't fear it. As those things are his main ways of approaching, your main focus should be on making Wario approach, which can be accomplished by shooting arrows and the like. One other advantage Pit has is that Wario is much easier to edgeguard that Pit. I don't know if anyone else has tried, but you can hit Wario with fair when he's using his bike off-stage, so that's a plus for us. Also, when he is forced to use his up-b, it's linear, so you can definitely spike him if that happens. I have usually found myself respecting the Wario offstage though, and instead focused on winning the neutral, so I'd like to see if anyone else has input on how easy it is go gimp Wario (you can yell at me if I'm wrong, I'd like to make sure my Info's right anyways.)

As for the tools that Wario has, there isn't as many. He can definitely punish a Pit that likes to approach with well-timed tilts and aerials, so the focus should always be on making the Wario approach. Also, with his good recovery, he has no problem going offstage and trying to stage-spike of otherwise edgeguard Pits, so keep your teching skills primed. AND WATCH OUT FOR THR WAFT! Seriously! The waft is Wario's best tool. Do not underestimate it. Getting hit by the waft is a complete game changer as it leads to very early kills and the like. When Wario has the waft you just gotta respect him and play it even more safe than normal. Oh, and he also has generally good kill power, so watch out for that even if he has no really easy kill confirms or anything.

Overall, I wanna say Pit has an advantage in this matchup, but I think it's pretty even. I do believe that Pit wins, but he just doesn't have anything huge going for him that make me believe in him without a doubt. Also, I've have some Wario players pull some amazing plays from out of nowhere on me, so I've come to respect Wario a lot. But overall, I think Pit has a more solid strategy in this matchup and that makes him win.

I don't really have much knowledge in this matchup cause I practically never see him have does side b interact with the bike

Great analysis man respect

 

[KiyoXDragon]

I don't have much experience with the new three yet so, I can't give my insite, but I still don't understand how Yoshi is a +1 to Pit/Dark Pit, he is quite difficult, what I understand is that you have to be patient with him but if you play too far away most likely they will spam you with eggs to get you to approach, and then start attacking you, mind you he has more fast attacks than the pit/dark pit so you will get fumbled into a smash attack leading into most K.Os in the match up, I read on the previous page that you have advantage off stage, that is untrue, you do not want to go off stage with a Yoshi they have a stronger spike than you, they are most likely to spike you off the stage, you want to stay on the stage and block a lot to defeat a Yoshi, although I have not had much success with that either. Most of the time Yoshi likes to use Aerials, and up air smash attacks on Pit Dark Pit and they work almost 90% of the time.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I don't have much experience with the new three yet so, I can't give my insite, but I still don't understand how Yoshi is a +1 to Pit/Dark Pit, he is quite difficult, what I understand is that you have to be patient with him but if you play too far away most likely they will spam you with eggs to get you to approach, and then start attacking you, mind you he has more fast attacks than the pit/dark pit so you will get fumbled into a smash attack leading into most K.Os in the match up, I read on the previous page that you have advantage off stage, that is untrue, you do not want to go off stage with a Yoshi they have a stronger spike than you, they are most likely to spike you off the stage, you want to stay on the stage and block a lot to defeat a Yoshi, although I have not had much success with that either. Most of the time Yoshi likes to use Aerials, and up air smash attacks on Pit Dark Pit and they work almost 90% of the time.

I think the matcup is a 50/50 as Yoshi gets juggled pretty easily by ous and he can't really approach without being predictable but arrows can really throw him off so I would say 50:50 Dark Pit 55:45 Pit