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Official Battlefield of the Gods - Pit / Dark Pit Matchup Discussion *Corrin, Samus, Shulk*

MKchouy

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@Xyless when we play in bracket, I'll go Pit this time.

What do you guys think of these MU ratios?

:4pit::4darkpit:60:40 :4wiifit:
:4pit::4darkpit:55:45 :4wario2:
:4pit::4darkpit:40:60 :4mewtwo:


:4pit::4darkpit:55:45 :4wiifit:
:4pit::4darkpit:55:45 :4wario2:
:4pit::4darkpit:50:50 :4mewtwo:

imo

We very rarely have any 6-4 or 4-6 MUs, the Pits have the most even MU spread in the game most likely
 

xfateful

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An interesting thing to note is that Abadango, arguably the best Mewtwo right now, believes Pit along with Cloud and possibly Diddy Kong, are Mewtwo's worst matchups. I'm not sure why he thinks that way especially since I believe he's never faced Earth in bracket... however, this is another opinion on the matchup.

In any case, this is kind of just FYI since I don't know the logic behind it and since I don't know the matchup, I can't really give any insight into why he might think that way. Nonetheless, I think it's always important to take into consideration how the other side feels about the matchup.
 
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An interesting thing to note is that Abadango, arguably the best Mewtwo right now, believes Pit along with Cloud and possibly Diddy Kong, are Mewtwo's worst matchups. I'm not sure why he thinks that way especially since I believe he's never faced Earth in bracket... however, this is another opinion on the matchup.

In any case, this is kind of just FYI since I don't know the logic behind it and since I don't know the matchup, I can't really give any insight into why he might think that way. Nonetheless, I think it's always important to take into consideration how the other side feels about the matchup.
I main both and I can say Pit isn't his worst matchup he might be a bad matchup but not worst although again I don't think he's bad at all but I'm no Abadango but I disagree with him
 

CHOMPY

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PSYCHE!

I only said that to get the conversation going :p

In reality it's more of a 60:40 in Pits favor.
 

NoahZark

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I read that, but missed the punish. I'm ashamed to he called a sonic main now :,(
Nooo! Why! JK man, if Sonic suits you better then go for it. You've just added quite a bit to this forum, so it'd be a shame to see you leave it
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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Have we discussed Bayo yet? An angel's gotta learn how to defend himself.

I actually got a chance as Dark Pit to play doubles against a team with Bayonetta and Marcina on it. I also got to play as Mii Brawler 1132 (which has a similar kit to me) against Bayonetta in a one on one . Either they were really bad or she's not as difficult to face as we once thought because I had a pretty good time.
 
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CHOMPY

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Here are the characters we will be discussing as of this post.

:4bayonetta:
:4kirby:
:4miisword:

Let the discussion begin!
 

CHOMPY

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Good question. We will go by default Mii and with standard rules, I believe they go by the 1/1/1/1 2/2/2/2 or the 3/3/3/3 set.
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

Formerly “ItalianBaptist”
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Default size is almost unanimous; depending on the venue it's either 1111, one set only (at Xanadu it's only 1231) or any combination.

The Mii swordfighter group really likes all 3 of the projectiles. I use tornado a lot because of how it kinda walls opponents out. Most of those guys say the chakram is the best but I prefer horizontal recovery with the Ike rip-off.

Gathering my thoughts for the bayo matchup; most of what I'm thinking is pretty obvious. Quite a few of her moves are very easy to punish, and DP's electroshock has never been better for it.

Also when I played as Mii brawler against that bayo I used shot put a lot to keep her away - arrows are probably even better. I actually had the advantage for most of it. If I had stayed away and played defensive I might have won but instead I got overly aggressive at the end.
 
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CHOMPY

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If you guys want some Swordfigher MU experience, I'll be glad to fight you guys online. Just send me a PM if your up for it, or we can talk on Discord.
 

Y2Kay

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If you guys want some Swordfigher MU experience, I'll be glad to fight you guys online. Just send me a PM if your up for it, or we can talk on Discord.
Most people put the m2 match up as even, but it says -1 on the chart. Do you feel differently?

:150:
 

CHOMPY

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Actually, it shows it as a +1, lol

The way the matchup works is basically your can abuse M2's height and large hurtbox to your advantage, thanks to Pit's disjoints. As shown by Abadanagos great tech with the nair to footstool to disable, you would definitly need to put up your shield and wait until the animation of the nair wears off, and punish it with a nair out of shield. Mewtwos Shadow Ball forces players to approach M2, so if you apply safe pressure with fair/nair to ftilt/jab (RAR bair to ftilt/jab) to bait him to throw out an unsafe option, the stage control is all yours. Remember to do a lot of extended fox trots and look carefully on how Mewtwo reacts and punish accordingly. When recovering back on stage, watch out for M2's bair and fair. Mix it up with a side B to condition Mewtwo to respect your recovery, so you can return back on stage for free without always using the side B to grab the ledge. Mewtwo's Up B can teleport, and his airdodge also teleports as well, making it really difficult to hit Mewtwo in the air at times, so its best to use moves with multi long lasting hitboxes, like nair and uair. Similar to how Ness has bthrow as a kill move, be wary of Mewtwos uthrow as a kill move, so bait it out and do a lot of short hop backwards. However, make sure you don't put yourself in a corner, limiting yourself with very few options. Fortunately, rolling past Mewtwo to jab can be used as a mixup, since Mewtwo's dsmash only covers one side, but I recommend only doing it once per game (or stock). Again, don't throw out an unsafe option when your in kill % though. Pit's usmash out of shield is god like against Mewtwo, due to its large hurtbox, so take advantage of that when possible and use it when you think Mewtwo will grab you.
 

alexthepony

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when I arrow off stage, do I do it to try to just hit them, or get the start up of the up b?
 

CHOMPY

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when I arrow off stage, do I do it to try to just hit them, or get the start up of the up b?
Generally, you want to follow their movement patterns offstage, so shoot the arrow above them to guess that they are going to jump, if you think they are going to drop down, shoot the arrow below them. Also, wait for them to air dodge. However Mewtwos air dodge timing is a bit different and he has the confusion to prevent that.
 
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Bayo already? Well, at least we're tackling her early.

Chompy would have more knowledge since [I think] he's top two swordfighters in the country if not world.
Well f*** man I didn't know that just trying to help
Actually, it shows it as a +1, lol

The way the matchup works is basically your can abuse M2's height and large hurtbox to your advantage, thanks to Pit's disjoints. As shown by Abadanagos great tech with the nair to footstool to disable, you would definitly need to put up your shield and wait until the animation of the nair wears off, and punish it with a nair out of shield. Mewtwos Shadow Ball forces players to approach M2, so if you apply safe pressure with fair/nair to ftilt/jab (RAR bair to ftilt/jab) to bait him to throw out an unsafe option, the stage control is all yours. Remember to do a lot of extended fox trots and look carefully on how Mewtwo reacts and punish accordingly. When recovering back on stage, watch out for M2's bair and fair. Mix it up with a side B to condition Mewtwo to respect your recovery, so you can return back on stage for free without always using the side B to grab the ledge. Mewtwo's Up B can teleport, and his airdodge also teleports as well, making it really difficult to hit Mewtwo in the air at times, so its best to use moves with multi long lasting hitboxes, like nair and uair. Similar to how Ness has bthrow as a kill move, be wary of Mewtwos uthrow as a kill move, so bait it out and do a lot of short hop backwards. However, make sure you don't put yourself in a corner, limiting yourself with very few options. Fortunately, rolling past Mewtwo to jab can be used as a mixup, since Mewtwo's dsmash only covers one side, but I recommend only doing it once per game (or stock). Again, don't throw out an unsafe option when your in kill % though. Pit's usmash out of shield is god like against Mewtwo, due to its large hurtbox, so take advantage of that when possible and use it when you think Mewtwo will grab you.
Actually I see your point now especially since Abadango said Pit was one of M2's worst matchups lol
 

HermitHelmet

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Just dropping into say the matchup for Swordfighter is pretty much even, you have sick gimps on us but even then you still get hit by our throw combos and get caught by our OoS Options pretty hard (if we block a side b, you die at like 70% lol)
 

NoahZark

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So here's a few tips I've learned about the :4kirby:matchup that you should keep in mind.

When Kirby gets in on you, you should expect to take a good amount of damage. Uptilt chains, fthrow combos, dtilt and dair lead into grab, the puffball's got a lot of tools to rack up damage. As for killing, bair is a great finishing move, he can catch unsafe landings or side-bs with smashes (which are pretty dang powerful for such a small guy), and his dair is God against Pit's recovery. Also, up throw is not to be slept on, especially with platforms, so you can't sit in shield at high percents.

Now, this can make it sound like Kirby dominates in this matchup, but Pit has plenty of tools. Our moves wall Kirby out very well, which prevents him from getting in and getting his combos started. And Kirby dies easily. If he tries to land with dair (which many kirby players like to do if they think youre close enough) and you read it, you can potentially get a side b or a fsmash in if you space yourself correctly. Also, catching his landings on a platform with up smash is a pretty good option too. A note I have noticed (not sure if with all Kirby players or just the ones I've played) is that they will play it safe and sit in shield a lot at high percents, which allows you to get a forward throw kill, which is probably my favorite way to kill with Pit/Dark Pit.

Even with this evaluation, I'm not very sure what to rank this matchup as. I think it's very even. In my experience, I either wall out the Kirby well and do great, or just get the crap comboed out of me and lose terribly.
* Theoretically, if you play it safe and wall out the Kirby well, Pit should win the matchup.*

P.S. Don't try to edgeguard Kirby. Seriously. He's pretty hard to edgeguard, and if you mess up, you're eating a dair or two. Not worth it.
 

Y2Kay

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An interesting thing to note is that Abadango, arguably the best Mewtwo right now, believes Pit along with Cloud and possibly Diddy Kong, are Mewtwo's worst matchups. I'm not sure why he thinks that way especially since I believe he's never faced Earth in bracket... however, this is another opinion on the matchup.

In any case, this is kind of just FYI since I don't know the logic behind it and since I don't know the matchup, I can't really give any insight into why he might think that way. Nonetheless, I think it's always important to take into consideration how the other side feels about the matchup.
FYI Abadango has recanted on this and now claims it as even or slightly in Mewtwo's favor.

I'm of the opinion that the Match up is even, a waaaay disagree with it being 40:60 in Pit's favor. But the time to talk about this is over I guess, so I'll shut up about.

:150:
 

Sensane

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I personally believe that we have the potential to have a slight advantage in the Mewtwo mu if we play patiently since Mewtwo's has a large body and orbitars can hinder both his air game and shadow ball, but that's just my opinion.

Anyways, notes on the Bayonetta matchup:
  • When recovering, space side b to avoid getting d-smash spiked.
  • Do not challenge her air game as her n-air, f-air, and b-air are very quick, safe, and last long.
  • Despite this, she has a rather weak shield drop game because of the startup on her aerials, so she can be sharked rather easily.
  • Duck Hunt and Dreamland are good stages to pick since her recovery is somewhat hindered due to the stages' designs, but be wary of the latter's low ceiling.
  • Battlefield might also be a decent counterpick stage, since I always see Bayonetta players ban that stage almost immediately.
  • Exploit any anti-Bayonetta tricks you know (DI/SDI out of combos, baiting witch time, etc.)
  • Bayonetta hates being zoned out, so shoot arrows whenever possible.
  • Try not to recover high as Bullet Climax covers any high recovery options we may have.
  • Arms can either beat or trade with Heel Slide.
 

Koiba

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Duck Hunt and Dreamland are good stages to pick since her recovery is somewhat hindered due to the stages' designs, but be wary of the latter's low ceiling.
Late reply is late because lol no alerts but can't Bayo wall jump/wall cling on Duck Hunt?
 

CHOMPY

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Now that Bayonetta has been patched. Perhaps we can rediscuss the Bayonetta matchup? Also, if you guys want to get a better idea of the Mii Swordfighter MU, please PM me.
 

FiXalaS

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I came in curious for some mu ratios; y'all overrate this character hugely.

Even with rosa, Mario, sheik and diddy?

If this were true, Pit would be winning tourneys everywhere.
even if Pit doesn't win, he still gets respectable and good results, better than most characters. tbh easily top 15-20 in a game of nearly 60 characters, so he's in the better 1/3 of the cast (imo)

[wow I just realized I was in page 4 thinking it's the latest page, and quoted a post from a year ago...]

edit: regarding the Bayonetta MU, after the nerf it's now easier to live longer, and Bayonetta may rely on witch time to kill, but most of our game is bait and punish & a grab fest. Her other ways to kill are either mixing up with ground Side B or spamming Bair :p first can be shield grabbed, BAir though being safe on shield may be difficult to deal with if the foe is good

If Bayonetta is offstage, I say Pit is better here as I heavily suggest to not chase her outside but instead to snipe her and get a bunch of damage, arrows can hit through her Kicks(sure) and Twists(unsure), it's not worth it to got for her unless the foe's not good.

I don't recommend using Side B unless when she uses smash attacks or (lol) ground side B.

there is nothing to fear after the nerf tbh, she isn't scary anymore, maybe only with the case of witch time when we're 70%, if witch time is fresh that's a fully charged up smash to the death of pit.

thankfully we have really good grab data, this is from my experience with her during the last 2 days. oh and one more thing.. if Bayo does her aerial special combos and you got stuck with it when you shouldn't, don't forget that her landing lag is still there, so now that we can escape it you can punish her landing easily, maybe even with side B if you decide to get stuck in the combo intentionally and escape later(it's really easy now...but beware from air dodge reads) so she gets more lag.
 
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Sensane

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I used to think that we had a slight disadvantage in this mu, but the nerf does help a lot. Still think it's either even or slightly in bayo's favor.
 

NoahZark

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The nerf definitely helps with the Bayonetta matchup, because now we don't have to be really scared of her combos. Still about even, but not a matchup you should worry about overly, in my opinion.
 

alexthepony

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how do i get the kill vs king dede seriously? i need help, the only thing i thing of is get him to a 150 and upperdash arm, i need help.
 

NoahZark

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Well, it looks like rip this discussion, but maybe we'll ressurect it.
Anyways, I played a Bayonetta recently and had no issues at all. Since there are no real 0-death combos, we can just abuse the fact that her neutral is underwhelming and not care if we accidentally get hit. Of course, witch time is still a threat, but it seems like Bayonetta players might get desperate and start to fish for it at high percents (and even sometimes at mid percents), so try and play it patiently and bait it out at high percents.
I'd like to put this at a +1 for Pits, and currently believe that is the right score for this matchup
 
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