Official Battlefield of the Gods - Pit / Dark Pit Matchup Discussion *Corrin, Samus, Shulk*

[NuNero1]

Can we discuss new characters now? If so, then I vote for , , and .

YES! Ryu HAS to be NEXT! He's been kicking my butt everytime I face him.

 

[Don Guero]

multi-hits for days.

i need to learn what options we have when ryu is off the stage and when hes on the ledge (particularly regular get up)

 

[KiyoXDragon]

Can we discuss new characters now? If so, then I vote for , , and .

I vote for Ryu, I can't beat high level ones.

 

[Sensane]

I vote for Ryu, I can't beat high level ones.

More like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opADNvgeZYY

 

[KiyoXDragon]

More like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opADNvgeZYY

I remember this, Ryuman ga Taosenai

 

[Emmington]

Can we discuss new characters now? If so, then I vote for , , and .

Yes, definitely Ryu. I think that he's got a pretty high advantage over Pit/Dark Pit; nearly all of the Ryus I've faced have been able to kill me no problem when I play DP.

 

[Sensane]

Yes, definitely Ryu. I think that he's got a pretty high advantage over Pit/Dark Pit; nearly all of the Ryus I've faced have been able to kill me no problem when I play DP.

Then you're probably not playing the mu correctly, because he really doesn't have that high of an advantage over pit; I fail to see why he would.

 

[Treveen]

It is very frustrating for Ryu players to deal with our multi hits and juggling capabilities. Their focus attack wont work for them in the air and they will start trying to cancel it. Then you can read it and punish with an fsmash

 

[Sensane]

CHOMPY are we going to update the matchups yet? Oh yeah, and change my vote to.

 

[CHOMPY]

The matchup thread is now updated.

The MU ratios for these characters are

-1
+1

For the Miis, we will hold off since none of us really have much experience against the Miis, other than myself.

As of now, we will be discussing these MUs

 

[Sensane]

Finally. Oh, and I have notes for all of these characters:

• Just don't use side b at all in this matchup as lemons can get in the way and he can punish you with a mega upper.
• Orbitars pretty much invalidates air shooter.
• If an air shooter happens to hit megaman after being reflected, it can lead to tech chase situations.
• Megaman has trouble in cqc. Despite this, do not try to approach him much; use arrows.
• If you're going for a dair spike, make sure he hasn't used rush coil yet otherwise he'll just spring right back up.
• Keep your distance in general as most of his projectiles are linear.
• If you get hit by a crash bomb, don't fret or panic in shield; find a way to latch it onto him or at least get up close; it shouldn't kill you even at higher percents because of its multi hit properties.
• Crash bomber takes about 2 seconds to detonate and it disappears on shield.
• Go to bf or dreamland because platforms give a way to get around projectiles.
• Avoid FD and possibly T&C because of its flatter surface can make projectiles harder to deal with, especially lemons.
• Duck Hunt is also a relatively strong stage for Rock because walls boost his recovery, and it's a pretty big stage to begin with; while this makes our arrows better when we camp, the same works for Rock, too.
• Despite this, it's not really a bad counterpick; it just makes it a game of who can camp better and who can force the other character to approach first.
• Pittoo is the better man for this matchup, but vanilla pit isn't too bad either.
• Don't hesitate to reflect projectiles with orbitars (but don't reflect lemons).
• Grab that Metal Blade at all costs.
• Find paperman.
• If you can approach him, use your aerial pressure.
• Rock has no means to get out of sharking situations.
• Don't try to rush in and approach; let him come to you.

• Ike has rather lackluster frame data in most of his moves, so feel free to approach him.
• Ikes will often try to grab you and use an up throw; DO NOT DI AWAY AT ALL AS A SIMPLE UTHROW -> FAIR COMBO CAN KILL AT AROUND 90. DI IN AS THIS LIMITS HIS COMBO POTENTIAL.
• Eruption edgeguarding is rather futile in this mu; just hit him with an arrow.
• Become his friend and you'll receive sympathy from him.
• Platforms are rather bittersweet against ike. On the one hand, sharking him is no problem. On the other hand, one up smash can erase your stock (though this won't matter as much as you'd think).
• In other words, if you're bad at landing with pit, you'll lose pretty easily.
• Don't challenge aether; just orbitar gimp and see if it works against it (it sometimes works but not always).
• Get him underneath the stage as this hurts his recovery options.
• Do not challenge him offstage; gimp him with arrows.
• Up smash covers all ledge options we have; be careful and try to force him to use it so that we can ledge attack.
• Ike can act out of his QD after he hits something.
• Ike's counter has such low endlag that he can act almost immediately after it.
• Stages don't matter that much; just ban each one based off of how you normally land with pit.

Contrary to what many people randomly feel like saying, this is NOT an advantage for ryu.

• Multi hits prevent ryu from landing, so fight him like you would fight bowser and keep juggling him in the air.
• Tatsu loses its hitbox after it hits a shield.
• His moves don't have a lot of range and/or get outprioritized by most of our moves.
• Don't sit in shield so much as he's difficult to punish out of shield.
• Arrows are transcendent against all variations of hadouken.
• Shoryuken has a hitbox that can pierce the ledge much like marth and lucina.
• Talk is cheap.
• He cannot approach that well, so camp him out when needed to.
• Watch out for utilt locking.
• Don't get in too close to him as ryu dominates in footsies.
• Use more aerials and less grabs.
• It doesn't matter which pit is used; he's difficult to kill either way.
• Talk is STILL cheap.
• Abuse disjoints as much as possible; remember that his range is one fist short.
• Literally any stage is fine, but choose larger stages like duck hunt, bf, and fd.

 

[Koiba]

Find paperman.

lol

Up smash covers all ledge options we have; be careful and try to force him to use it so that we can ledge attack.

I'd also like to point out that usmash can still hit you when you're just on the ledge. What I usually do is just fair him when I see him charging it.

Ikes will often try to grab you and use an up throw; DO NOT DI AWAY AT ALL AS A SIMPLE UTHROW -> FAIR COMBO CAN KILL AT AROUND 90. DI IN AS THIS LIMITS HIS COMBO POTENTIAL.

I feel like di-ing inward is a good option, but he still has uair. So mix up your DI whenever possible

Ike's counter has such low endlag that he can act almost immediately after it.

Are you talking about the attack or when it misses. I'm assuming it's the attack but it still has a FAF of 35 frames. You still got half a second

Stages don't matter that much; just ban each one based off of how you normally land with pit.

I agree with this, but if you're feeling the jank is on your side, go counter-pick Lylat :^)

 

[NuNero1]

Finally. Oh, and I have notes for all of these characters:

• Just don't use side b at all in this matchup as lemons can get in the way and he can punish you with a mega upper.
• Orbitars pretty much invalidates air shooter.
• If an air shooter happens to hit megaman after being reflected, it can lead to tech chase situations.
• Megaman has trouble in cqc. Despite this, do not try to approach him much; use arrows.
• If you're going for a dair spike, make sure he hasn't used rush coil yet otherwise he'll just spring right back up.
• Keep your distance in general as most of his projectiles are linear.
• If you get hit by a crash bomb, don't fret or panic in shield; find a way to latch it onto him or at least get up close; it shouldn't kill you even at higher percents because of its multi hit properties.
• Crash bomber takes about 2 seconds to detonate and it disappears on shield.
• Go to bf or dreamland because platforms give a way to get around projectiles.
• Avoid FD and possibly T&C because of its flatter surface can make projectiles harder to deal with, especially lemons.
• Duck Hunt is also a relatively strong stage for Rock because walls boost his recovery, and it's a pretty big stage to begin with; while this makes our arrows better when we camp, the same works for Rock, too.
• Despite this, it's not really a bad counterpick; it just makes it a game of who can camp better and who can force the other character to approach first.
• Pittoo is the better man for this matchup, but vanilla pit isn't too bad either.
• Don't hesitate to reflect projectiles with orbitars (but don't reflect lemons).
• Grab that Metal Blade at all costs.
• Find paperman.
• If you can approach him, use your aerial pressure.
• Rock has no means to get out of sharking situations.
• Don't try to rush in and approach; let him come to you.

• Ike has rather lackluster frame data in most of his moves, so feel free to approach him.
• Ikes will often try to grab you and use an up throw; DO NOT DI AWAY AT ALL AS A SIMPLE UTHROW -> FAIR COMBO CAN KILL AT AROUND 90. DI IN AS THIS LIMITS HIS COMBO POTENTIAL.
• Eruption edgeguarding is rather futile in this mu; just hit him with an arrow.
• Become his friend and you'll receive sympathy from him.
• Platforms are rather bittersweet against ike. On the one hand, sharking him is no problem. On the other hand, one up smash can erase your stock (though this won't matter as much as you'd think).
• In other words, if you're bad at landing with pit, you'll lose pretty easily.
• Don't challenge aether; just orbitar gimp and see if it works against it (it sometimes works but not always).
• Get him underneath the stage as this hurts his recovery options.
• Do not challenge him offstage; gimp him with arrows.
• Up smash covers all ledge options we have; be careful and try to force him to use it so that we can ledge attack.
• Ike can act out of his QD after he hits something.
• Ike's counter has such low endlag that he can act almost immediately after it.
• Stages don't matter that much; just ban each one based off of how you normally land with pit.

Contrary to what many people randomly feel like saying, this is NOT an advantage for ryu.

• Multi hits prevent ryu from landing, so fight him like you would fight bowser and keep juggling him in the air.
• Tatsu loses its hitbox after it hits a shield.
• His moves don't have a lot of range and/or get outprioritized by most of our moves.
• Don't sit in shield so much as he's difficult to punish out of shield.
• Arrows are transcendent against all variations of hadouken.
• Shoryuken has a hitbox that can pierce the ledge much like marth and lucina.
• Talk is cheap.
• He cannot approach that well, so camp him out when needed to.
• Watch out for utilt locking.
• Don't get in too close to him as ryu dominates in footsies.
• Use more aerials and less grabs.
• It doesn't matter which pit is used; he's difficult to kill either way.
• Talk is STILL cheap.
• Abuse disjoints as much as possible; remember that his range is one fist short.
• Literally any stage is fine, but choose larger stages like duck hunt, bf, and fd.

Thanks! I'm a Pittoo main, and all three of these mofos have been giving me problems (that goes double for Megaman and Ryu), mainly because I don't play the MUs that well. Your notes have given me more insight and I'm enlightened! Definitely taking these with me next time I dive into For Glory.

 

[NoahZark]

A note on the matchup: many Ryus will use Hadouken to zone you out or approach with. Orbitars are great for reflecting this. Often times the Ryu will shield the reflected Hadouken, and nothing will come out of it for Pit or Ryu, but it limits one of Ryu's approach options.

 

[CHOMPY]

A note on the matchup: many Ryus will use Hadouken to zone you out or approach with. Orbitars are great for reflecting this. Often times the Ryu will shield the reflected Hadouken, and nothing will come out of it for Pit or Ryu, but it limits one of Ryu's approach options.

You are better off using Nair to neutralize the Hadouken. The orbitars doesn't reflect back very far, and you are vulnerable to getting punished.

 

[Sensane]

Yeah hadouken isn't worth reflecting due to its slow speed and how easy it is to outprioritize.

 

[NoahZark]

You are better off using Nair to neutralize the Hadouken. The orbitars doesn't reflect back very far, and you are vulnerable to getting punished.

Yeah hadouken isn't worth reflecting due to its slow speed and how easy it is to outprioritize.

Gotcha guys, thanks for the tips

 

[Treveen]

definitely camp against megaman. he doesnt have great approach options and he plays rather slowly. it makes for easy timeouts.

 

[NoahZark]

Something I've noticed on the matchup:
Ike has to approach because of arrows, and his approach options are beatable, so Pit should theoretically never have to approach and therefore should win the matchup. Basically just play defensively against Ike and you should be fine, imo

 

[Koiba]

Did we even invite anyone? Should I go do that?

 

[NoahZark]

Did we even invite anyone? Should I go do that?

Not yet and why not. More inputs means more discussion, which hopefully brings us more accurate final decisions.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Pit vs Ryu is even. If you lose to a Ryu then you got outplayed or you don't know the match.

Pit has all the tools to win.

Pit is the "real" Ryu of smash. Jack-of-all-trades and can answer any situation. No huge glaring weaknesses or strengths. He def has the tools to avoid Ryu's kill conversions and Focus is a non-issue for Pit.

 

[ravemaster47]

I don't have a ton of experience in the pit matchup. But what I can say is this match comes down to stage control. Megaman will try to bait out orbiters. We can get some solid kills wit fairs if you're recovering with your up b. As I said before I don't have a lot of experience in this matchup, bit I'd put it at even.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If any Pit players on the east coast or the mid west of USA want to spar please hit me up.

If you do not live in those areas, then I do not want to play. It is not personal. It is due to latency. "But EL my internet is good blah blah..." Please stop because the quality of your internet isn't relevant as long as you have at least 10 up and 3 to 5 down with a stable ISP. Distance is one of the biggest determining factors of lag so chill.

 

[CHOMPY]

Emblem Lord I live in Chicago, so we can lab out the MU tonight.

 

[NuNero1]

If any Pit players on the east coast or the mid west of USA want to spar please hit me up.

If you do not live in those areas, then I do not want to play. It is not personal. It is due to latency. "But EL my internet is good blah blah..." Please stop because the quality of your internet isn't relevant as long as you have at least 10 up and 3 to 5 down with a stable ISP. Distance is one of the biggest determining factors of lag so chill.

Well, I'm a Dark Pit main (don't know if that's acceptable) and I would not mind sparring with you. Testing my skills against another Pit/Pittoo player sounds interesting ( it is highly rare that I run into another Pit or Dark Pit online). My NNID is KSHEFF722 (all caps) and my in-game name is DrekStar ( stylized variation of it), NERO or KJAY91. I live in Georgia and my internet connection is pretty good. Hit me up when you get a chance, later.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well, I'm a Dark Pit main (don't know if that's acceptable) and I would not mind sparring with you. Testing my skills against another Pit/Pittoo player sounds interesting ( it is highly rare that I run into another Pit or Dark Pit online). My NNID is KSHEFF722 (all caps) and my in-game name is DrekStar ( stylized variation of it), NERO or KJAY91. I live in Georgia and my internet connection is pretty good. Hit me up when you get a chance, later.

I main Ryu fam.

 

[NuNero1]

I main Ryu fam.

My bad fam, but still I would not mind sparring with you, I could really use more experience in this MU. Later.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Still down to play this match. Chompy and I played and we both got some good exp out of it.

 

[CHOMPY]

I'm sorry that I was not playing to my full potential. At least I have an idea of how Ryu plays and what to do in the neutral.

 

[Sensane]

How to fight ryu: ABUSE MULTI HITS! Now give me one logical reason as to why ryu beats us.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I don't think anyone with a brain thinks Ryu wins.

And if you think its as easy as abusing multihits or thats even the main advantage Pit has going for him then idk what to say to that.

 

[Y2Kay]

Might aw well forget about the multihits. Characters don't "beat" Ryu with multi hits. Combating him effectively in nuetral and abusing his recovery are way more important.

Multihits get brought up too much when discussing Ryu. Only bad Ryus use that move like that anyway.

 

[Sensane]

I don't think anyone with a brain thinks Ryu wins.

And if you think its as easy as abusing multihits or thats even the main advantage Pit has going for him then idk what to say to that.

So False doesn't have a brain? He believes so lol.

It kinda is really. Of course there's more to it than that but ryu can't really handle multihits becUse without focus he can't land. Even nair gets beaten by an uair. I don't think pit has the advantage, but it's certainly not in his favor.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So False doesn't have a brain? He believes so lol.

It kinda is really. Of course there's more to it than that but ryu can't really handle multihits becUse without focus he can't land. Even nair gets beaten by an uair. I don't think pit has the advantage, but it's certainly not in his favor.

Eh? Hmm, I will talk to False later. Had no idea homie had any thoughts on Ryus match-ups since far as I know he doesnt play him seriously. At least not over Marth and Sheik. Also wavebouce focus and b-reverse focus can alter his trajectory. But I can venture a guess as to why False thinks Ryu wins.

Pit is really bad at killing compared to Ryu. He has no confirms and he doesnt even really have any safe pokes on block either. So Pit's neutral at mid range really depends on him choosing the right option or being punished hard. Arrow zoning isn't super tight or scary. Once Pit is around 80% he is in the death zone and any error means he loses a stock. Ryu can make mistakes. Pit really isn't allowed too and I'm sure Chompy can tell you after our matches I punished any and all errors with extreme prejudice.

Yes, Pit eats up Ryu's landing. But he has to get in to do that and THAT is the massive risk he must take. But he also doesnt have a choice if he wants to gain a heavy lead on Ryu.

 

[Sensane]

Just because you have to be careful and can't make a mistake doesn't mean it's difficult for us; if you think about it you have to be careful in every matchup with any character. Hyper aggression is just asking to lose. Remember ryu still has to get IN to deal that damage, since hadouken is easy to outprioritize, is slow, and overall not a great projectile (he even has frames where he can't use it otherwise it whiffs). Ryu cannot really approach that well, so why would arrows not be a considerable factor? Ryu also lacks range on some of his attacks (or at least some of the attacks that ryus use the most), so we can use our disjoints to keep him out. Ryu can't keep distance; he plays footsies, not spacies.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yes you can use your disjoints, but as I said none of those moves is really safe on block. Pit has to use them to stuff a button generally which limits him. He cannot throw out a non committal attack. Ryu also commits, but is heavily rewarded for doing so. That's a key difference. Pit's main advantage is the mid range burst zone he excels in with dash grab which leads directly to reward and strong landing traps. Arrows ARE a factor, but they are not scary. Scary = can end an opponent or lead to death. In edgeguarding situations yes they can seal the deal. On stage they are meant to annoy and force a hasty action.

I didn't bring up hadouken tho as I know Pit has many ways of deal with it. All characters do. In terms of going button to button, Pit's hitboxes are very much on the honest side. Ryus hitboxes mostly are not. So they can def go toe to toe in the close range. Pit has the advantage in terms of a disjoint but hit for hit on their pokes, Ryu definitely wins in damage and safety. Safety being absolutely key.

Also define approaching well because I can def argue that Ryu approaches better/safer then Pit. Pit has greater grab reward but his approach is binary. A straight 50/50 generally between dash grab/dash attack with the latter being unsafe. Ryu has worse run in options, but much better and safer SH options and bait tactics with FADC.

I dont think either char has an impressive approach btw. They both look mediocre to me in that regard.

 

[MKchouy]

I played the mexican Ryu SB Betoh for a couple hours a week or two ago and got some great MU exp. Multi hits should not be an excuse to shut down Focus, as I noticed I was baited into SH nairing into Betoh sometimes to beat out focus and instead he'd cancel it immediately and use movement options like wavebouncing to punish with Ryu's strong aerials since nearly everything beats our nair. Our DA is great for covering his landings and our grab game is superior, but it is always a risk to get close to Ryu rather than trying to space him out.

I decided I preferred Pit to Dark Pit in this MU because of how punishable E shock is when whiffed, Ryu can focus 1 (whatever it's called, the first stage of focus) and get huuuuge damage early on or just tilt-> shoryu if you are both at kill percents, basically Ryu can punish side B like no other character so I'd rather exchange for pit's arrows and have safer edgeguarding along with forcing Ryu to approach.

Unless I got an up smash kill, I found it hard to kill him below 140% since Ryu can survive f throw pretty late. I died many times around 75% to rage Ryu. I also get a lot of kills through trump->bair but it's difficult to do since against Ryu because of the hitbox of up B.

Rereading this I guess I talked more about Ryu's strengths than ours in the MU, but I do think Ryu has the slight advantage of 55-45 his favor. The pits have all the tools they need to outplay Ryu and win, but Ryu benefits from rage more than any other character in the game imo and the fact that we have to commit to get our kills otherwise Ryu survives to crazy percents is a real damper on the MU.

 

[Emblem Lord]

When I consider a match ratio the first and last question I ask myself is a simple one.

Which character is required to take more risks to achieve victory? When you break it down, in this instance it's probably Dark Pit/Pit.

I personally still think it's even, but I can definitely understand why some think Ryu wins albeit slightly.

 

[Sensane]

Non commitable attack? Lol it's like you don't know the character. All of his aerials can autocancel in a short hop. Fair and bair are safe on shield and so is ftilt.

Ryu can approach with tatsumaki (which loses it's hitbox after it hits shield like lucas's down smash), focus (which is mostly used for mindgames anyway), or just flat out running. Yeah it's better than pit sure, but we use arrows to force him to get in anyway.

Emblem lord, you really do have some good points, this was a good discussion

But hang on a minute

I decided I preferred Pit to Dark Pit in this MU because of how punishable E shock is when whiffed,

IT'S LITERALLY THE SAME THING AS UPPERDASH. Constant use of it will get you baited, son. Dash and Shock have th exact same frame data.