Basics of Yoshi

[bigman40]

Yeah....I'm making this cause when I look at a lot of videos, I see lots of Yoshi lacking good core gameplay. This is something that mostly every Yoshi should be working on. I know that most of you look at me and see me for my tech skill with Yoshi. HOWEVER, when it comes down to it, I'm almost always working on my core gameplay to boost my Yoshi up even more than before. I'm mostly saving and watching my own videos, trying to look for moments where I can create different options so I can't get as predictable as I would be before. Things like this is not only hard, but downright annoying when you have these habits that Yoshi helps creating soo quickly.

Working on other characters CAN help out a few things for Yoshi's core gameplay also. I play a multitude of characters, and I know that each and every one of them give at least one thing to my Yoshi ,whether it's tilts from snake, small time punishing from pika, constant pressure from Mario, they all help create my Yoshi. Yeah, most of their styles are completely different from one another. I hate it too, but it's something that you should try to take time to learn as it can give you some benefits that you probably wouldn't get by working Yoshi alone.

Idk where I wanna get with this....It was just something that I wanted to state to the Yoshi boards cause all these videos I see, and there's almost no difference in them with the core gameplay. So look at your Yoshi, and start thinking about some improvements you can make with him instead of forming those ugly habits that make getting out of them ever harder.

 

[Chaco]

LOL!!!! I love how our discussions become threads. <3 Scat.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Great read Scatz (as always). I, too play with a lot of chars. In fact, I also main Diddy Kong and I second nearly every other character in the game. I do that to gain knowledge of movesets, situations, and such. It does help with core gameplay. While I may not be as tech as the rest of you, I know that I have the basics pretty much locked down and always working on it to to expand my core gameplay. I would love to show you guys my playstyle in quality tourny matches or with competent tourny players, but I have to rely on other people to take me tournies and they always bail on me. Plus I don't have any type of capturing device to put vids on YouTube. I do have three matches on my youtube but that was before my wii was superhacked and now I can't send my replays to the person to upload them to my account. I hate that this reply has turned into a sympethy plea because I don't want it to. I'll end on that note. Like I said before, great read.




And Scatz, come to Florida Gaming May 30th!!!

 

[Depster]

I try to make sure I use other characters every once in a while, and using yoshi makes me better with them, too. Just my skill from maining a bottom tier and doing well plus my matchup xp is making me able to use other characters, even nearly as well sometimes. It just kinda opens your mind a little more and makes you want to experiment with teh yoshter

 

[mobilisq]

I'm a ness main that has a TREMENDOUS amount of fun when i get yoshi on random. Love love looooooooooooove playing other characters to blend up styles

except lucario

****'m

 

[.Marik]

I have it the other way around.

My Yoshi's core gameplay is pretty decent, it's the tech skill I somewhat lack. >_>;

 

[Metatitan]

yoshi's tech game isnt that deep marik, its mainly egg lay/toss tricks

 

[auroreon]

Learn to DR.

 

[bigman40]

I have it the other way around.

My Yoshi's core gameplay is pretty decent, it's the tech skill I somewhat lack. >_>;

Unless you've completely mastered everything there is about Yoshi's core gameplay, you should still look back to see what you can improve on. Most mistakes come from the core gameplay, then sometimes come from tech skill (and I mean this as in execution, repetition, etc.).

I'll use one of my problems that I know I'm trying to fix.

Since I've been reliant on staying out of Yoshi's shield for soo long, my habit has become to where I do too many early spotdodges in anticipation so that I can get out of his shield as quickly as possible. This has gotten me punished more than enough by my friend, and since.....idk....March....I've been exclusively working on trusting Yoshi's shield when I'm using it.

Another has been my recovery. When it coems to the point that my friend can keep me off stage long enough to where I can only rely on Egg toss to make it back (which leads to easy gimps) is a major problem. I've become predictable to where as I'm gonna end up getting gimped in more matches than just my friend.

This stuff is what I'm talking about. These problems are from my own core gameplay (and when there reaches a limit as to what you can do to make it better, than I'll admit that), and I should be concentrating on this (and maybe any others that I spot) until I can fix it and make it a strength again. As making as many strengths in your game as possible will make your Yoshi X times better than having them as a weakness, or even a semi-weakness.

And Scatz, come to Florida Gaming May 30th!!!

I'm still on the bar for being there. Bwett told me about another tourney he might go to that's on the same day, but Idk what will happen until I get back home and talk to my dad about my car. Either way, when I make my decision, I'll be asking for housing there (as that will be my decision whether I will be going or not).

 

[.Marik]

Ah. I guess I could work on repetition also...

Thanks for the post, Scatz. I'll be sure to look into practicing. =)

When I get my Brawl/videogames back...

 

[Poltergust]

I'm still on the bar for being there. Bwett told me about another tourney he might go to that's on the same day, but Idk what will happen until I get back home and talk to my dad about my car. Either way, when I make my decision, I'll be asking for housing there (as that will be my decision whether I will be going or not).

Scatz, you must go! We have to team up for it and take doubles by storm!

Anyways, I do think that my overall defensive game is greatly lacking. I'm just too agressive sometimes, and that usually makes me get grabbed. A lot. I could also use Yoshi's shield a bit more, I guess.

 

[DiscoShark]

I'm also going to join in with the "core gameplay comes first" group. Yoshi has a ton of ATs, we've established that point quite well, but I truly fear that we, as a community, are sacrificing learning Yoshi from the ground up, from the roots of the very character that he is, by skipping to the flashy techs straight from the flood gates. I honestly do not know how a new Yoshi, a person trying to pick up the character for the very first time, would react to seeing the community in its current state. Bombarded by threads basically saying "your yoshi will never be as good as it can be without learning techs x,y, and z". What we then, as a community, create is pressure for the developing Yoshi's to learn the DR the DT the DJC Egg Lay and any other tech before they've developed a play style that doesn't completely rely on them. We create a sense of constant insecurity to those who have not yet incorporated them into their own Yoshi game. This is not the message we need to be sending. Core First, establish a base before ANYTHING else, and then set out to learn the techs that help expand upon the core, not replace them.

 

[.Marik]

I'm also going to join in with the "core gameplay comes first" group. Yoshi has a ton of ATs, we've established that point quite well, but I truly fear that we, as a community, are sacrificing learning Yoshi from the ground up, from the roots of the very character that he is, by skipping to the flashy techs straight from the flood gates. I honestly do not know how a new Yoshi, a person trying to pick up the character for the very first time, would react to seeing the community in its current state. Bombarded by threads basically saying "your yoshi will never be as good as it can be without learning techs x,y, and z". What we then, as a community, create is pressure for the developing Yoshi's to learn the DR the DT the DJC Egg Lay and any other tech before they've developed a play style that doesn't completely rely on them. We create a sense of constant insecurity to those who have not yet incorporated them into their own Yoshi game. This is not the message we need to be sending. Core First, establish a base before ANYTHING else, and then set out to learn the techs that help expand upon the core, not replace them.

Quoted for truth.

Excellently said.

 

[bigman40]

I'm also going to join in with the "core gameplay comes first" group. Yoshi has a ton of ATs, we've established that point quite well, but I truly fear that we, as a community, are sacrificing learning Yoshi from the ground up, from the roots of the very character that he is, by skipping to the flashy techs straight from the flood gates. I honestly do not know how a new Yoshi, a person trying to pick up the character for the very first time, would react to seeing the community in its current state. Bombarded by threads basically saying "your yoshi will never be as good as it can be without learning techs x,y, and z". What we then, as a community, create is pressure for the developing Yoshi's to learn the DR the DT the DJC Egg Lay and any other tech before they've developed a play style that doesn't completely rely on them. We create a sense of constant insecurity to those who have not yet incorporated them into their own Yoshi game. This is not the message we need to be sending. Core First, establish a base before ANYTHING else, and then set out to learn the techs that help expand upon the core, not replace them.

And that's why I'm where I'm at. I've had a great base since I've been constantly practicing on improving it, all the while improving my tech skill so that I can utilize them with my core gameplay. I'm certain that I've logged in at least 3000+ hours of training, practicing, experimenting, etc. I've put in extreme work to get some good recognition. And that's why I'm stressing this to EVERY, (I'm serious) EVERY YOSHI MAIN.

 

[Metatitan]

we should have green ace do this thread, aside from mabey bwett, he has the strongest core game out there

 

[Airborne]

i just remembered something......
gimpyfish was trying to prevent the sheik boards from having the same issue almost a year ago... i should've seen this coming....
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193747

edit: just start reading the posts made by people afterwards... it makes you quite disappointed in the community...

 

[Sharky]

screw the rules I'm reviving this thread. Got brooklyn rage? Too bad, it was a terrible catchphrase anyway, best stick to nyeh.

I'm convinced that the basics are what we as a main need to work on. All those techs, they just add to basic play. I propose we use this thread to talk about various aspects in the game that we feel we need to work on or have problems with. The rest of us will try to figure out the basic play aspect related to it, and make suggestions. This can apply whether the problem's matchup related, mindgames, how to apply something, or just plain bad habits. This should cover most everything. alright.

Discuss.

 

[Delta-cod]

I would like to discuss the proper use of not doing anything. It is quite possible the best thing to do ever, since you can react to anything anyone can do safely. Standing still is probably your greatest tool at mid range if you're not approaching.

Discuss.

 

[Sharky]

agreed. people stress moving around so much they forget about the simplest of mindgames/defensive strategies, waiting for the enemy to move

 

[Delta-cod]

Also, empty fullhops are another good approach/bait. Something that I like to do is just jump forward and back without doing anything to bait the enemy into chasing me. It's something the Ness mains taught me.

 

[Deleted member]

Ask meta i was lecturing him on this.

 

[Metatitan]

If by lecturing you mean telling me that I don't always need to be moving then.... LOL

Lecturing is different from telling.

 

[SOVAman]

we should have green ace do this thread, aside from mabey bwett, he has the strongest core game out there

and the riding continues......

 

[Airborne]

and the riding continues......

that was posted months ago. XD

and i think we should focus working on our ground game, and using more tilts because they're just too good. yes, even utilt.

 

[Shiri]

LOL MAH D00 LIL' B FROM DEEEEEEEEP LOL!

P.S. - Yes, use more tilts, please. :D

 

[Delta-cod]

lil b, that was exactly what I thought when I read the first posts in this thread.

I like to use tilts. I probably use utilt the most, then ftilt, and dtilt the least. I think playing Ness got me hooked on utilt. >_<''

Anyways, I usually space myself so I can use the tip of dtilt at the edge to lightly sweep them off. It's really good when you catch them off a ledge drop DJ, since the knockback kinda just hits them down.

 

[bigman40]

Drop off Uairs is almost the best killing option that's super safe.


~Mieu

 

[Airborne]

drop off uairs are also a great mindgame. not sure if you're including dropping below platforms as well as running off of them, scatz/whateveryouwanttobecallednow, but both are great for said situation.... hell, if you can space it right, you can probably even shield poke with it. o.O

edit: i've always loved yoshi's tilts the most out of his entire moveset, yet just didn't ever get comfortable with using them in actual matches... once i played mario in some friendlies (and was doing surprisingly well with him... o.O), i noticed how i was using tilts a lot more (same with falco).

i think utilt's best use is when they're above us, because i \'m pretty sure that's where the hitboxes seemed to be primarily focused at, and it's effective because i think there might not be any hurtboxes on his tail... o.O

ftilt just seems like a great poke, and when used up close at starting %'s, actually combos into itself and other tilts.

dtilt just seems amazing at poking.... and knocking people off stage.

any way you look at them, yoshi's tilts come out fast, and are hard to punish in the right situations.

 

[indigestible_wad]

Dtilt is amazing for countering almost any ground approach, since it outranges most dash attacks and tilts.

Neutral b is great for mixing up with dropping aerials onto a grounded opponent because they'll be shielding and going for the grab.

 

[Airborne]

actually, i don't believe his dtilt outranges most other people's ground attacks.
and snake has invincibility on the front of his dash attack. :X

 

[indigestible_wad]

It's not an ALL purpose move, but it outranges a lot of dash attacks, and people don't grab early enough to not get hit at the farthest point.(I'm not sure I'm saying that how I want to) The starting lag is enough to not make it the best close range move, but more for a medium range move, and yes, there are things that outrange and outprioritize, and I try to be wary of the characters with those moves. I personally use it mostly as a mix in with pivot grabs for opponents' rushing.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi's tilts are good, which is why his game is starting to focus more onto the grounded side of his game. Yoshi in the air is starting to get repetitive to the point where the opponent can react to some of the mixups we want to do (or they could just hit us out of it). Not saying that yoshi in the air isn't bad, but it's definitely not his strongest placement anymore imo.

As it stands in my book, Yoshi's worst aspect atm is recovering while taking minimal damage. Sure this is not that big of a problem at mid levels, but higher up, Yoshi fails here having two main options (Egg throw to ledge to sweetspot or DJAD thru the opponent). I normally don't even care about killing problems since I have the patience to wait when I'm focused. Anyone else have such problems?


~Mieu

 

[Sharky]

yoshi is terrible at the ledge, I agree. His limited options make him very readable, and thus very punishable. Most of my issues against better players in my region stem from getting back onto the stage, unless we're talking about the IC main lol.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yeah, it's a big problem. I got ***** trying to get back on stage while playing a high level MK and got killed at 78% since I couldn't recover. It's incredibly difficult to get back to the stage at times. I'm sure I made a mistake that caused the death, but I would have taken massive damage anyways. D: