Basic Mafia

[adumbrodeus]

If I had confidence in my ability to outright lynch Ro I wouldn't be doing this in the first place.

 

[Vinylic.]

I could follow xat's lead right about now. If Ro flips town, then we may have something interesting in our hands.

If this isn't what everyone else feels comfortable with, then I'll join this lynchpool as well. Being read as dumbtown isn't a good thing, especially if I end up alive tomorrow.

 

[Ro Laren]

It has to be Adum/Xatres.

Vote: Adum

I think this is a last ditch effort by Adum. I don't think Town Adum would actually game throw like this. Scum Ro could just kill Marshy if he agreed to lynch Ro after Adum. I really think Town Adum would have considered this. If Adum isn't scum, the game is going to come full circle with me vs Xatres toMorrow. I'm not voting Marshy at this point. The J kill did make me reconsider my read on him (I was expecting him to die), but I've reread him again and I really don't think he's scum.

 

[Ro Laren]

I could follow xat's lead right about now. If Ro flips town, then we may have something interesting in our hands.

If this isn't what everyone else feels comfortable with, then I'll join this lynchpool as well. Being read as dumbtown isn't a good thing, especially if I end up alive tomorrow.

I think you should follow the lead of people you know for sure are town. Right now that is Kary, Ryu, and J. Both J and Ryu had really strong town reads of me.

 

[Ro Laren]

Do you disagree, Vinylic?

 

[Vinylic.]

My reads reset every day. Now that there's 5 left I think I feel more comfortable speaking some more. This lynchpool is likely to stay between you and adumb. Xat has been pursuing to get you lynched since D2, and adumb is offering to be lynched himself. I feel like things won't change until your role is revealed.

 

[Vinylic.]

Okay so, let's say adumb flips town and now xat and you are in Lynchpool. You now suspect Xat is scum, so what would be your explanation? What can you possibly provide to validate that?

 

[Ro Laren]

Okay so, let's say adumb flips town and now xat and you are in Lynchpool. You now suspect Xat is scum, so what would be your explanation? What can you possibly provide to validate that?

J thought Xat was scum. He's tunneled me since D1 without real evidence. I also think he was trying to set me up as Ranmaru's partner early on in case I was able to lynch Ranmaru.

 

[Ro Laren]

I really think we should lynch Adum right now though. If you lynch me, you're still going to be stuck tomorrow and will have to figure it out between Xatrus and Adum. Right now, you at least have Marshy, so I think you should work with him.

 

[Ro Laren]

Did you read the points I made against Ranmaru? Why would I push so hard for Ranmaru if I was his mate? Why would I kill J when he town read me? Why would I lynch Ryu when he town read me? If I were scum, then I would just be getting rid of people that were on my side. One of Xatres and Adum are scum and they have been killing the people that are on my side so that they could mislynch me near the end game. One of them is using the others tunneling of me to do this.

 

[Vinylic.]

Xatres I need you to follow up on this asap. Gimme your response on Ro's thought. I want more from you now than ever.

@marshy Out of Ro, Adumb, or I, who would you feel more comfortable lynching? If me, what would think of the outcome and how will it play?

@adumb If you were lynched and you indeed flip town, how would you want next day to go? Same question to marshy, what would be the outcome of having me lynched instead?

 

[Vinylic.]

Darn it. adumbrodeus
#HBC | marshy

 

[Vinylic.]

That does sound like something scum would do. Next day is last day though, so I have a lot to think about and theorize before I make a vote. Voting you was my first thought after reading up, but it's not gonna be Instant.

 

[Ro Laren]

I don't want to spend a week fighting this battle and constantly checking an inactive thread. I'd like for you to make your decision now. Please vote Adum with me and give the hammer to Marshy.

 

[Xatres]

It has to be Adum/Xatres.

Vote: Adum

I think this is a last ditch effort by Adum. I don't think Town Adum would actually game throw like this. Scum Ro could just kill Marshy if he agreed to lynch Ro after Adum. I really think Town Adum would have considered this. If Adum isn't scum, the game is going to come full circle with me vs Xatres toMorrow. I'm not voting Marshy at this point. The J kill did make me reconsider my read on him (I was expecting him to die), but I've reread him again and I really don't think he's scum.

If Adum is scum then he's the crappiest scum player in the history of the game. ToDay makes TWO game days where he was willing to roll over and die, one of those days with his wagon being started by a scummate.

Also, saying the J kill made you reconsider your read on Adum is the WIFOM-iest piece of **** argument I've ever seen.

This is TEXTBOOK mafia play, to kill someone that gives you a reason to lynch someone else who threatens you.

Finally, everyone please note that this is the second time an Adum wagon has started, Xat's come in to stop it, and then Ro comes in with s vote to try to push through the lynch before discussion is finished.

 

[Xatres]

I think you should follow the lead of people you know for sure are town. Right now that is Kary, Ryu, and J. Both J and Ryu had really strong town reads of me.

You keep that Yomi 2 train rolling, pal.

Everyone note that Ro is pretty desperate to push this lynch through asap because she knows she's dead to rights if me and Adum get one more vote for her.

 

[Xatres]

J thought Xat was scum. He's tunneled me since D1 without real evidence. I also think he was trying to set me up as Ranmaru's partner early on in case I was able to lynch Ranmaru.

There has been evidence in spades.

1) ****ty illogical arguments.

2) Ran's shady interactions with you day 1.

3) Trying to push Adum's wagon after someone stepped in to stop the momentum when you had other viable lynch targets

4) Giving contradictory reasons for pushing Adum day 1. First it 'lol, mixed up time zone' then it was 'lol, I was in my car'

5) buddying up with Xat and Adum day 2 when you felt threatened

6) making up bs reasons to kill Adum today even though you were talking a big game about town reading him before. Using J's death as your reasoning is pure wifom

 

[Xatres]

I really think we should lynch Adum right now though. If you lynch me, you're still going to be stuck tomorrow and will have to figure it out between Xatrus and Adum. Right now, you at least have Marshy, so I think you should work with him.

Why RIGHT NOW? The day JUST started. Ro is pushing for this lynch to happen immediately because if this momentum dies she's a goner.

Also, if she were town, she would realize that having two players riding so hard on her Day 3, right before we head into a potential lylo, means SHE should be the one offering to be lynched.

You don't walk into the endgame with such a contentious slot on the board.

If we kill town!Adum we learn little. If we kill town!Ro, we learn much.

 

[Xatres]

Did you read the points I made against Ranmaru? Why would I push so hard for Ranmaru if I was his mate? Why would I kill J when he town read me? Why would I lynch Ryu when he town read me? If I were scum, then I would just be getting rid of people that were on my side. One of Xatres and Adum are scum and they have been killing the people that are on my side so that they could mislynch me near the end game. One of them is using the others tunneling of me to do this.

Because your play has been Yomi 2 all game.

You took some serious heat early Day 2, so you and Ran decided to push each other so that if you died, he could clear himself. Neither of you expected Ran to die first.

You killed J to incriminate your enemies.

You lynched Ryu because it meant you didn't die, plain and simple. Town should have had you dead to rights after how scummy the end of day 1 was. You spent most of day 2 buttering up to me and Adum and pushing to any lynch you thought would get traction.

Finally, given the lay of the land, you couldn't NK Xat or Adum without incriminating yourself. Instead, you chose to make NKs that incriminated others (while picking off popular town-reads, giving yourself better lynch targets the next day)

 

[Xatres]

I don't want to spend a week fighting this battle and constantly checking an inactive thread. I'd like for you to make your decision now. Please vote Adum with me and give the hammer to Marshy.

Seriously. Read between the lines and see how desperate Ro is for a quick lynch.

I'm back from vacation. The break Ro enjoyed during day 2 is over.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Xatres I need you to follow up on this asap. Gimme your response on Ro's thought. I want more from you now than ever.

@marshy Out of Ro, Adumb, or I, who would you feel more comfortable lynching? If me, what would think of the outcome and how will it play?

@adumb If you were lynched and you indeed flip town, how would you want next day to go? Same question to marshy, what would be the outcome of having me lynched instead?

Vinyl, don't be an idiot.

I'm not throwing the game, I'm suicide bombing to kill my scum target.

Xatres isn't scum, look at his play around d1 lynch and how genuine he's been.

You're not scum because you made a pure towntell last game day.

Marshy isn't dying at this point in the game except to a nightkill or with confirmed night actions.

Scum's been murdering people that weren't really lynchable.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That's my reasoning for doing what I'm doing. When I flip town you will vote Ro during your first post of the thread when it opens.

You will not read any arguments in the thread.

 

[Maven89]

Spak has replaced Ro Laren

 

[Xatres]

>_<

Seriously?

Can we just clear this slot off the board? Besides all the other reasons stated, I don't want a replacement sitting on a scummy slot in LyLo.

 

[Xatres]

I'm talking to town, not Maven.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You're going that route? I'm not mad, just disappointed.

 

[Xatres]

You're going that route? I'm not mad, just disappointed.

If this being said to me for piling on another reason to lynch the slot, or to Ro for quitting when the heat was on?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ro replacing out when the heat was on.

 

[Spak]

It's gonna take me about a day to read up; I'll post my thoughts once that's done. I can see from this page that it doesn't look good with my slot leaving when the heat is on without explanation, and I wasn't given a reason I'm replacing in so I can't guarantee there is one. I wouldn't blame you guys for looking at this slot in an unfavorable light, but I can guarantee that lynching it will do more to hurt town than to help it. Not commenting on J or Ryu's posts unless they hold insight on other slots because there's no point in getting a read on them since they've already flipped town.

Unvote

 

[Xatres]

I would very much prefer that we lynch Spak before he has a chance to start muddying the waters. Scum replacing in at this stage have an unreasonable advantage.

The facts of the case haven't changed. Ro's slot is still the scummiest on the board and town still has the most to learn from her lynch.

Ro replacing out is more than disappointing. It was a **** move that should not be rewarded.

 

[Spak]

I would very much prefer that we lynch Spak before he has a chance to start muddying the waters. Scum replacing in at this stage have an unreasonable advantage.

The facts of the case haven't changed. Ro's slot is still the scummiest on the board and town still has the most to learn from her lynch.

Ro replacing out is more than disappointing. It was a **** move that should not be rewarded.

Could we at least wait until the end of the day to lynch me if everybody is so decided on my slot? Time is town's friend, and I don't think that you could make an argument that having another opinion to look through would be a bad thing for town after my flip, regardless of alignment. Paper trails are good and help establish connections; even if my slot is screwed, I'd want to be able to contribute in some way before my demise.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

I wouldn't blame you guys for looking at this slot in an unfavorable light, but I can guarantee that lynching it will do more to hurt town than to help it.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

sucks that ro bounced

adum/ro is my final answer. the more i think about it the more i doubt xat or vinyl are scum

done with this game outside of that. ill take you up on your offer adum. well played to vinyl/xat if theyre scum lets get this **** over with

vote adum

 

[Xatres]

You can when scum has the opportunity to completely disown the play of the person they are replacing.

If you are town, you'll see the hot water Ro was in after you read up and understand why the slot needs to go toDay.

 

[Xatres]

sucks that ro bounced

adum/ro is my final answer. the more i think about it the more i doubt xat or vinyl are scum

done with this game outside of that. ill take you up on your offer adum. well played to vinyl/xat if theyre scum lets get this **** over with

vote adum

Dude, just vote for spak and let's get this over with.

 

[Spak]

Dude, just vote for spak and let's get this over with.

Why aren't you acknowledging the reasoning behind my request? I likely can't stop you guys from lynching me, but I can at least ask to get my reads together and out there so that town has something to go off of after I flip.

 

[Xatres]

I did acknowledge your reasoning, I just disagree either you that the benefits outweigh the risks.

I think leaving your slot alive in LyLo is a terrible play, and I think as a newcomer to the game you have a chance to break completely from everything Ro did and form whatever reads you think will make you look townie. You'll have zero accountability for how Ro played. That's not at all a good spot for town to be in during the end game.

It's nothing personal. You just happened to inherit a horrible slot at the most inconvenient time. Ro is screwing everyone in this game over, including you, by dipping out like she did.

 

[Spak]

Spoiler

· “The overselling of the point makes it a bit forced in my mind and also declaring Ro Laren is auto-scum for voting Xatres is another thing I'm pondering. The case seems too hard for something pretty small.” – J, #138

o I don’t think that Xatres actually thinks that Ro is scum based purely off of that statement, but I think he was trying to pressure her into cracking.

· “Yeah, I think that the amount of certainty Xatres seems to be showing at this point in the game just isn't justified. It feels like it's jumping to a conclusion too much. I don't necessarily think that it's scummy though. The whole thing is a bit OMGUS. It also bothers me that Xatres doesn't offer any other reads.” – Kary, #147

o It’s been a while since I’ve played with anyone, but I feel like Kary usually doesn’t play it this safe early. Kary usually tries to pressure people, but this post seems to want to draw attention to Xatres’ tendencies while still keeping the Kary’s hands clean of any wagon that could come along.

· “Ya, I'm not playing another game with Kary being needlessly antagonist in an obviously anti-town way. Sorry folks.

/replace out” – Adum, 164

o I hope that this is a joke post, because if not, this is possibly one of the worst reasons to replace out I’ve ever seen. I’ve dealt with tilt (see me v. Moosey in pretty much any game we’ve ever been in, he’s the only person I’ve played with on this site that can actually get me mad lol), but one person being antagonistic is no reason to drop out completely. I’m not sure if he just had a bad day, but it’s a little suspicious that he’s so on edge that he would drop out after one off remark towards him. There might be a history between these two that I’m just not aware of because I wasn’t here, but this seems off.

· “My earlier vote on Xatres was in RVS. My concern was with him voting for Maven, but not because it didn't generate content or connections with other players. It was because it gave me a small sense of wanting to avoid conflict with other players. But I don't think that idea holds up anymore with how Xatres turned onto Ro Laren. Jury's still out on Xatres but I don't feel my vote needs to be there anymore.” (#182)

o So Xatres changing his ways after you mentioned something makes him not suspicious? If changing something after you’ve been called out for it is really all it takes for scum to look innocent, I don’t know how anybody would ever get a vote.

· “T v Null.

Xatres comes across as he truly believes his push on Ro Laren. Laren has a passive approach and I'm not totally sure on her. I want to see more to have a better stance.” Ran, #195

o This gives me a town feeling on Ran. From what I’ve seen town!Ran, he can be very cautious and has a hard time getting off of his established reads unless there is super solid evidence for/against a slot.

· I’m a little suspicious that Vinyl might be throwing out questions and either forgetting he asked them or being completely uninterested in the answers to look like he’s scumhunting. He asked Ro a question in #125 that went unanswered and he never followed up.

· “Two or three days ago I was pleasantly surprised to get up in the morning and see maybe a whole page of posts.

Since then it's been pretty thin on the ground. I could whine and moan some about how disappointing that is, but really, I don't feel like becoming invested in a game for the sake of it- if the rest of you don't have the time and energy to play then this will just wither and die of its own accord.

I don't really know why I'm posting now to be honest. My expectations are pretty much what they have always been- that people will check into the thread pretty much every day, and add as much of their thoughts as they can bring to bear. And I realize that I don't know different people's situations, or their commitments. But I guess I'm just disappointed.” Kary, #247

o This reads genuine, but null to me. Inactivity is good for scum, but frustrating for all parties.

· “2. Hard to fake all that as early as he did and to sit there would go against scum win condition.” Ran, #259

o He doesn’t have to fake all that, he’s just making logical statements about a slot. People of either alignment can make observations and then accuse people based upon them. And how does sitting on a read go against scum win conditions? He can just say “Oops, Ro played illogically” and then not get burned after the flip if he’s scum because he’s playing with only logical statements. Furthermore, trying to state that he’s town or mafia based off of that play is completely useless because it’s pure WIFOM.

· “this is a curious choice of words.” Kary, #292

o Please elaborate on this; I didn’t find anything strange about his wording, aside from the fact that he seems to refuse everyone in the game this right.

· “You said the interactions between the two are wierd and might be partners, I do think how Ran has grilled Ro but seems to be going at Marshy is odd to me. Feels tacked on to me.” Ryu, #322

o This is something I didn’t catch onto, but is an interesting connection to draw.

· “im pretty damn sure theres scum between ran and ruy. id rather lynch adum than xat” Marshy, #324

o Is this still true? If so, why aren’t you going for Ran today?

· “meh, I honestly have been totally unable to get myself together this game, given my playstyle is all about forcing interactions based on things that were done, if a slot with the town control skills I lack decides they wanna shut down my attempts to do so I'm kinda dead in the water.

I legitimately hope Kary is scum, if so it was a damn good move.” Adum, #359

o Couldn’t you still question people? Try to scumhunt and find flaws in people’s reasoning? Pressure people to see if they’d crack? Just because your usual style doesn’t work doesn’t mean that you should give up.

· “I honestly think the lynch pool right now should be Ro Laren, Ran, or myself. I think there's plenty to learn from all of our flips.”

o Why are you volunteering yourself for the lynchpool? I’d normally say that could be town-ish, but at the same time you don’t really have anything at risk by introducing yourself to the pool because you’d have the smallest target on your back by a long shot.

· “Ran has been putting literally anyone BUT Ro at the top of his lynch pool for awhile now. By the content of his posts, she should be at the top of his list. Instead his vote seems to go to whoever the most viable non-Ro lynch target seems to be at the time.

Keeping her hovering at #2 reads like he wants to lay the groundwork to bus her if need be, but doesn't want to fully commit to it.” Xatres, #374

o Holy cow, this is the hardest tunnel I’ve seen in a while. He’s formulating scumteams D1, unless this was a ploy to see if the push at Ran would make him panic and change positions.

· Oh, didn’t realize it was D3 already lol. Well, I don’t wanna go back and rewrite my notes for the sake of transparency, but I’ll not expect Marshy’s #324 to be answered lol.

· “My stance is still bare bones, so I can't explain why. If lynching someone other than ran was a main priority, I still wouldn't have voted until I was certain. All I asked were questions and I ended up with answers with no reason to follow up on. Obviously I need to do better than that.” Vinyl, #406

o Still can’t tell if this is a legitimate argument because not all of Vinyl’s questions actually got answered, and then he went quiet seemingly without interest of the question that he didn’t get a response to. Also, if he could think up questions that early with so little content, why couldn’t he just have continued making questions that were relevant to the topic at hand?

· “I'm bringing it up because it throws doubts on your willingness to lynch ran, which is a massive scumtell given he spent last game day looking like he was distancing you or possibly setting up for a bus down the line now that he's flipped.

But I'll review you in ISO when I have a chance but this is largely not based on your behavior. It's based on Ran's.” Adum, #439

o Could you give evidence of Ran trying to distance Ro from himself? How would said distancing be different than a tone shift at the frustration of possibly getting caught?

· “The three big reasons this scumteam is unlikely are these:

1) Xatres halting the Adum wagon, when it had support of Kary (who had stopped the last wagon) would have been completely unnecessary. Adum spent portions of the game largely inactive, so there was a reasonable case to be made for his removal on that basis alone. scum!Xat could have fallen back on that logic (clearing the field of difficult to read players early on) to skirt in the mislynch. Instead, scum!Xat would have had to stop the momentum of a lynch his teammate started and then help push for that teammate's lynch.

2) Xat offering both himself and Ran as lynch candidates. In a pool of Ro, Ran, and Xat, even a random selection would have seriously hurt the scumteam. It would be easier and more effective for scum!Xatres to just bus his partner outright and gain some town cred, if misdirection was the aim.” Xatres, #442

o I must be really bad at counting, because I see two reasons and not three Anyways, I agree that you halting the Adum wagon would be a little odd, but the other point isn’t valid because you put absolutely nothing on the line by injecting yourself into the lynchpool. If anything, it looked a little weird that you were putting yourself in with everyone else because you had no business being there. Nobody was going to lynch you, and enough people liked you already for you to be certain of that. The only reasons for putting yourself in the lynchpool that I can think of are you being scum and wanting to look good and you not realizing that your play would accomplish nothing.

· “Xatres had even offered himself up as a sacrificial lamb for town's benefit.” Xatres, #446

o Definitely laying on the self-sacrifice thick here. This seems a little sketch to me.

· “Not lynching: Ro/Adumb/Vinyl” J, #496

o What reasoning would scum!Ro have to kill J? J was one of the few people who trusted Ro’s play. Killing J if Ro were scum would lose the scumteam a town collaborator, which is EXTREMELY valuable from my experience in past games. Best case out of Ro killing J would be a WIFOM, which reads null for giving up a hypothetically valuable scum asset.

· “gah, you're actually right there it was supposed to be an example to illustrate what I meant so there was no confusion on what I meant but I see how by not clarifying properly you could've been confused.”

o I do believe this entire line of questioning isn’t supposed to be viewed at 12:18 AM lol

· “So the game isn't over???

Was Ro's post just a joke?

I'm confused.” Vinyl, #565

o Don’t think that anyone can fake this level of confusion lol. I have Vinyl as a fairly strong town read.

Sorry for formatting, but I copy and pasted this straight from Word. I didn't wanna risk a hammer, and knowing that it's gonna be LyLo next round, I wanna do everything I can to give town another opinion to work with. I'll still do everything I can to stay alive, but at the same time I'm not dead sure who scum is right now.

Town confirmed
Town read
Town lean
Null
Scum lean
Scum read

Spak
Vinyl
Marshy
Adum
Xatres

If you guys want me to elaborate more, I'll do it tomorrow. I need to go to bed soon because my head hurts and I've been reading thread for 3 hours straight. Goodnight, everybody.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Well, that was useless. not really spak's fault though.

#HBC | marshy have you actually gone back and read the game yet?

 

[Vinylic.]

Well jeez, as soon as I came back, I now see this. I was gonna vote ro, but now it definitely seems like it's gonna be adumb. The problem is that now I'm unsure if this is the right call.