Basic Mafia

[#HBC | J]

#HBC | J What is your read on Ro Laren and Xatres?

I'd like to hold off on answering this in detail till more emerges from the two. I do lean one way over the other.

 

[ranmaru]

Sounds good.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You don't know about my slot or Ro's slot.

I clearly have something in mind over Ro's slot.

Interactions give information about the slots involved, even if you disagree with the premise under which it occurs, the reasoning is useful.

WTF is so hard to understand about that?

I guess you don't like being called lazy.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ya, I'm not playing another game with Kary being needlessly antagonist in an obviously anti-town way. Sorry folks.

/replace out

 

[#HBC | J]

Ya, I'm not playing another game with Kary being needlessly antagonist in an obviously anti-town way. Sorry folks.

/replace out

???

 

[#HBC | marshy]

revival of mafia a smashing success so far

get it? smashing? smashboards

ill stop

but ay it wouldnt b dgames without some salt so i suppose this is appropriate

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Ya, I'm not playing another game with Kary being needlessly antagonist in an obviously anti-town way. Sorry folks.

/replace out

This isn't what I wanted, I'm just joshing you.
If you want to replace out then that's cool, I respect that, but if you just want me to cool it then just say so. I came back here to play some fun games with people not to be a jerkwad.

 

[adumbrodeus]

This isn't what I wanted, I'm just joshing you.
If you want to replace out then that's cool, I respect that, but if you just want me to cool it then just say so. I came back here to play some fun games with people not to be a jerkwad.

If that was a joke it was in really poor taste, you completely killed my enjoyment of last game to the point where I didn't play here for two years and I have nowhere near the time or mental fortitude to deal with that again right now.

If you're gonna rib somebody make sure they'll actually get it, it's usually a good idea to limit it to people you're actually friendly with.

Sigh

/Rescind replacement request

I'll stick it out for now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Like I said, Gut feels aren't my thing. I'd like more out of you first. Why should marshy side with you? Why should I vote for J? It can't be because you said so, right?

Because teaming with him helps me out.

Because you should vote J.

It is because I said do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Two things:

1) You say "voting a non-player is basically not voting at all." This is obviously not true. My voting for Maven has produced a variety of reactions from different players, as it was intended to.

2) You say you are on board with what Ranmaru said, but what Ranmaru said was not "voting a non-player is basically not voting" he said voting a non-player is LESS informative than voting for player.

So in the span of two sentences, you've given us a logical fallacy and two contradictory statements. Pretty scummy, eh? And all from a little vote.



More logical fallacy.

1) You believe "a vote for a non-player == not voting"

2) I believe "EVERY vote in RVS helps you find scum"

3) You say that if I believe every vote in RVS helps find scum, why didn't I vote, as if I somehow secretly agree that my vote for Maven was illegitimate. It has been clearly establish that this is not the case, therefore asking, "Why didn't a vote" makes no sense whatsoever.

All that being said...

Unvote

Vote: Ro Laren

I don't see this as inherently scummy over a disagreement.

You nit picked wording a little bit but not in the way of something like I did to someone like WashedLaundry in a previous game, I think it is golden sun mafia, where his odd wording for a vote was enough for me to tilt my head and ask what was up with his reasoning.

This isn't that where it looks like something from a scum PoV would post but rather not liking why you voted who you. Your second paragraph admits this is a disagreement on that.

Why are you not sure this is that over actually being scummy? Line of questions and posts from Ro Laren seem reasonable.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

If that was a joke it was in really poor taste, you completely killed my enjoyment of last game to the point where I didn't play here for two years and I have nowhere near the time or mental fortitude to deal with that again right now.

If you're gonna rib somebody make sure they'll actually get it, it's usually a good idea to limit it to people you're actually friendly with.

Sigh

/Rescind replacement request

I'll stick it out for now.

The last game we were both in was a **** show. Looking back at my posts I can tell I was too high strung and not even slightly chill to be around. That's on me. I'm sorry.

I'm wasn't calling you 'lazy' because I dislike you as a person, it's not meant as a slight against you. I don't even think you're being 'lazy' because you're posting often and engaged with the game.

I could just as easily call you out for being 'guarded' or something else on the same slim evidence- It's not that I'm trying to give you a hard time, it's just my way of questioning what you're doing so that I can get more of a read on you. I'll try and keep it less... confrontational.

If I had to put a word on your play so far it would be 'calculated' and that might be a compliment. I'm looking at your avatar.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Because teaming with him helps me out.

Until he's scum taking advantage of you.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The last game we were both in was a **** show. Looking back at my posts I can tell I was too high strung and not even slightly chill to be around. That's on me. I'm sorry.

I'm wasn't calling you 'lazy' because I dislike you as a person, it's not meant as a slight against you. I don't even think you're being 'lazy' because you're posting often and engaged with the game.

I could just as easily call you out for being 'guarded' or something else on the same slim evidence- It's not that I'm trying to give you a hard time, it's just my way of questioning what you're doing so that I can get more of a read on you. I'll try and keep it less... confrontational.

If I had to put a word on your play so far it would be 'calculated' and that might be a compliment. I'm looking at your avatar.

Ok, apology accepted, I thought the snideness was representative of the same caustic attitude you had that game rather then a light-hearted joke.

Back to purely game stuff, yes, I'm calculated. I pride myself on being calculated. Which is why I set things up for payoffs and I pretty much always explain what my reasoning is for doing what I did after the fact.

So you'll find out either way, why not help me find out what I'm trying to find out?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

So you'll find out either way, why not help me find out what I'm trying to find out?

I don't feel like I know enough to be sure it's a good investment.

 

[Vinylic.]

Yo. I'm busy today. I will have to come back around midnight or tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | J]

I would have been sad had Adumb left.

Moving on, we have 5 days still which is a decent amount of time to find something to move onto while we wait on two players since there are still 7 other players in the game. (remember the days of 15 players? Not enough nooses those days)

We should all talk about that super attractive wagon that has the most votes currently. Imo, it'd be fun.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not gonna lie, I am loving Ro Laren's sass if anything.

What about the vote and Xatres stuff?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | marshy I'll answer that after I talk to xatres more.

Meta call I think he does like to play it back a bit day 1 from past games but it has been a while.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Until he's scum taking advantage of you.

This is how I can find out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Red Ryu Is your J vote serious? What are your thoughts on recent events?
#HBC | J What is your read on Ro Laren and Xatres?

Read my recent posts for recent thoughts.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

This is how I can find out.

Cool

Vote: J

 

[#HBC | Kary]

My earlier vote on Xatres was in RVS. My concern was with him voting for Maven, but not because it didn't generate content or connections with other players. It was because it gave me a small sense of wanting to avoid conflict with other players. But I don't think that idea holds up anymore with how Xatres turned onto Ro Laren. Jury's still out on Xatres but I don't feel my vote needs to be there anymore.

 

[Ro Laren]

Well that was...intense?

does xatres feign confidence as scum?

any1 have meta on dude?

the ro laren/xat thing interests me. i remember xat generally sitting back d1 til pretty late in the day. hes kind of like me in preferring to observe but less shameless about it and less swag

what im trying to say is that xatres springed into action to go after ro laren. idk if dudes scum cuz of different tone OR hes really got his "scumtell" that hes finally confident to push

#HBC | Red Ryu Ro Laren

ruy any thoughts? ro do you feel a grimy vube from xat or what?

swag

I can't say one way or the other yet. I've played with players before who base their scum reads on logic disagreements (vulcans, man). I don't agree with it, but I don't think it says anything about their alignment. I just don't know if it's normal here for people to have really strong reads so early? This also stood out to me when Ranmaru posted a t/n/s list the other day. I usually don't really start to develop reads until Day 2ish. These players had reads just a couple of pages into the game. I'm having a hard time believing they were able to form reads that quickly.

I don't see this as inherently scummy over a disagreement.

You nit picked wording a little bit but not in the way of something like I did to someone like WashedLaundry in a previous game, I think it is golden sun mafia, where his odd wording for a vote was enough for me to tilt my head and ask what was up with his reasoning.

This isn't that where it looks like something from a scum PoV would post but rather not liking why you voted who you. Your second paragraph admits this is a disagreement on that.

Why are you not sure this is that over actually being scummy? Line of questions and posts from Ro Laren seem reasonable.

Could you explain more the difference between my post and WashedLaundry's post?

 

[#HBC | J]

Ro Laren, so since you seem not really too believing in Ranmaru's read's what is your read on him?

 

[Ro Laren]

It's too early to say. I'd like to see more from him.

 

[#HBC | J]

Cool

Vote: J

Question, what makes you vote the sexy wagon?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

adumbrodeus

do you make anything of karys attitude alignment wise? youve mentioned town leaning xat from tone do you pull anything from kary? have you played with kary scum before? tell me what you generally expect from the slot

i feel like this games activity is pretty disjointed

 

[Xatres]

I don't see this as inherently scummy over a disagreement.

You nit picked wording a little bit but not in the way of something like I did to someone like WashedLaundry in a previous game, I think it is golden sun mafia, where his odd wording for a vote was enough for me to tilt my head and ask what was up with his reasoning.

This isn't that where it looks like something from a scum PoV would post but rather not liking why you voted who you. Your second paragraph admits this is a disagreement on that.

Why are you not sure this is that over actually being scummy? Line of questions and posts from Ro Laren seem reasonable.

My post was neither about a disagreement nor about nit picking wording.

The disagreement (whether or not a vote for a non-player during RVS useful) isn't a strong enough case. But there's a difference between a logical disagreement and a logical fallacy.

Read my case again. I point out the contradictory statements (logical fallacy) in Ro's first and second posts. The first having to do with both agreeing with Ranmaru, but then completely misrepresenting Ranmaru comments. The second having to assuming that I somehow agreed with her sentiment on voting non-players and therefore deliberately wasted my RVS vote. Which is crap.

Now, let's take a look at Ro's first post after I made my case.

I don't think there's anything to gain from this. Instead I'm going to do something helpful and

Vote: Kim Kardashian, because reasons.

This will help us find scum for sure.

Notice that it doesn't address any of my points whatsoever, and even attempts to go back to RVS with a Star Trek joke. Or perhaps just to be snarky towards me? Either way, it's a total deflection.

If Ro wanted to help town, she'd at least attempt to address my points. It would increase the interactions between us to help others sort through our alignment, and in a TvT situation, might dissuade me from tunneling. Instead, she chooses a path that benefits no one but herself.

Next up!

Well that was...intense?

I can't say one way or the other yet. I've played with players before who base their scum reads on logic disagreements (vulcans, man). I don't agree with it, but I don't think it says anything about their alignment. I just don't know if it's normal here for people to have really strong reads so early? This also stood out to me when Ranmaru posted a t/n/s list the other day. I usually don't really start to develop reads until Day 2ish. These players had reads just a couple of pages into the game. I'm having a hard time believing they were able to form reads that quickly.

Could you explain more the difference between my post and WashedLaundry's post?

Here we have Ro continuing to not answer my post, while simultaenously parroting Red Ryu's phrase "logical disagreements." She's basically just shrugging her shoulders and trying to change the subject again. This is a VERY common response from scummy players (particularly indies, though there aren't any of those in this game).

So yeah... I'm pretty confident in this read and won't be moving my vote again toDay.

 

[Xatres]

#HBC | marshy I'll answer that after I talk to xatres more.

Meta call I think he does like to play it back a bit day 1 from past games but it has been a while.

That's pretty accurate. I tend to armchair a LOT, especially Day 1. Generally, I wait until I have a large case on someone and drop it like an avalanche, with varying degrees of success.

In this game, I dropped the bomb on Ro earlier than I normally would, mostly because the time I can commit to a mafia game is a lot less than it used to be (having a wife and kid will do that to a guy). So I need to react when I have time.

As a bonus, I get to try a slightly different playstyle.

 

[Vinylic.]

I'm having a difficult time trying to understand and fit the pieces together. I did want to go for mini mafia first, but oh well.

#HBC | Red Ryu Teaming with marshy helps you out in what way exactly? As Kary said, he could be taking advantage of you, but it could also be the other way around. Why wouldn't you want to bandwagon his previous vote?

 

[ranmaru]

My reads were vibes, and are not solid yet. They will become solid as the day progresses.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

talk to me bout xat vs ro ran

 

[Vinylic.]

#HBC | Kary answer my question in #125

 

[Ro Laren]

I just did an ISO on Ranmaru. He comes off to me as trying to look like he's doing a lot, but not really. His question directed at Red Ryu stands out. It didn't look to me like Red Ryu was or is serious. His early persuit on me also felt dry. It also stands out that he was on my grill for thread viewing, but didn't really follow up after I posted, and just sort of shrugged when he noticed Vinylic doing the same. All in all, his scum hunting rubs me as dishonest so far.

 

[ranmaru]

T v Null.

Xatres comes across as he truly believes his push on Ro Laren. Laren has a passive approach and I'm not totally sure on her. I want to see more to have a better stance.

 

[ranmaru]

At the moment I am not confident in anyone yet. I feel scum are playing safely.

 

[Ro Laren]

The first having to do with both agreeing with Ranmaru, but then completely misrepresenting Ranmaru comments. The second having to assuming that I somehow agreed with her sentiment on voting non-players and therefore deliberately wasted my RVS vote. Which is crap.

Xatres I didn't need for you to "somehow agree with my sentiment" that voting a non-player isn't voting. It's a fact. There's no mechanical realtion to the game when I type the words "Vote: Kim Kardashian" any more than there is when you type the words "Vote: Maven89".

I don't really get the other part, "agreeing with Ranmaru, but then completely misrepresenting Ranmaru comments". I agreed with Ranmaru and expanded on my own point of view.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

ran you mentioned finding me/adum/kary as townie early game and j null. have those progressed? how? what are some brief impressions of us?

Ro Laren

can you please do one on red ruy?

Xatres

you mentioned finding it scummy that ro initially ignored you. can you plz expand on why you found it scummy? is there any reason he would do it as town BESIDES wanting to be snarky?

 

[ranmaru]

I just did an ISO on Ranmaru. He comes off to me as trying to look like he's doing a lot, but not really. His question directed at Red Ryu stands out. It didn't look to me like Red Ryu was or is serious. His early persuit on me also felt dry. It also stands out that he was on my grill for thread viewing, but didn't really follow up after I posted, and just sort of shrugged when he noticed Vinylic doing the same. All in all, his scum hunting rubs me as dishonest so far.

I didn't do much, so I'm not sure how it can seem that way. I wanted to see if he'd commit to something more serious if not. The direction was moving away from RVS so I want to engage him. There was nothing to follow up on. I didn't want to bother you, I don't actually find not replying as soon as possible a tell. It was only to get the ball rolling. You mention my reads list, and I explained it. What did you think of that?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm having a difficult time trying to understand and fit the pieces together. I did want to go for mini mafia first, but oh well.

#HBC | Red Ryu Teaming with marshy helps you out in what way exactly? As Kary said, he could be taking advantage of you, but it could also be the other way around. Why wouldn't you want to bandwagon his previous vote?

Reading him because he can be a coin flip sometimes and trying to see his perspective can help when he actually does something.